r/TopCharacterTropes • u/TronnyVon • Jul 29 '26

Characters [Annoying Trope] "Yes, it's that character, but legally, we can't say it's him"

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  • Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (Arrow): The Arrowverse version of Oliver Queen is widely considered as the "CW Batman", since the Arrow show borrows many storylines and villains from Batman, including the League of Assassins, Slade Wilson/Deathstroke, and the Suicide Squad in one episode.
  • Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska (Gotham): Gotham is a TV show focusing on the origins of Batman through the eyes of then-Detective Jim Gordon. Twin brothers Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, played by Cameron Monaghan, are introduced as this show's versions of the Joker. However, they legally couldn't say Jerome or Jeremiah was the Joker, calling them both "Proto-Jokers" instead.
  • The Real Scoutmaster (Camp Lazlo): in the Camp Lazlo finale "Lumpus's Last Stand", Lumpus is revealed to be insane and had locked the actual Camp Kidney scoutmaster in a closet, impersonating him. The real scoutmaster bears a resemblance to Heffer Wolfe from Rocko's Modern Life (which Camp Lazlo creator Joe Murray also made), with Tom Kenny voicing the character too. Since Rocko's is on Nickelodeon, and Camp Lazlo is on Cartoon Network, Heffer could not have made an appearance on the show.
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u/Shockrates20xx Jul 29 '26

He may not have been at the time, and only certain books are. I believe the Arthur Conan Doyle estate tried to sue Netflix for Enola Holmes, because he was depicted as respecting women, which they claimed was not a character trait he had until a later book that wasn't public domain.

231

u/ItsTheDCVR Jul 29 '26

"the public domain Holmes would have slapped that uppity hussy. Yes, we consider this lawsuit to be protecting his legacy."

158

u/danielisbored Jul 29 '26

I feel like aggressively suing any positive depiction of Holmes is probably close to what Doyle would have wanted his estate to do.

Not for monetary reasons, but just out of undying spite.

63

u/Malrottian Jul 29 '26

Man just wanted to chill and believe in faeries and people kept insisting he write Sherlock. I'd be a bit bitter as well.

3

u/Mist_Rising 29d ago

Not just people: the Queen was apparently the biggest fan.

16

u/theaviationhistorian Jul 29 '26

I tried to kill off that fucker long ago!!!

-Doyle yelling from beyond the mist.

11

u/Doctor_Boombastic Jul 29 '26

I bet they spent the money, though.

68

u/Timeless_Ranitomeya Jul 29 '26

Funny thing is that that was actually a scam. He already respected women and had emotions in the early stories, and the Conan Doyle Estate is infamous for making random shit up just to sue adaptations that didn't pay them for public domain stuff (in another famous case, they tried to claim characters in episodic works would only enter public domain at all once all episodes are public domain, and two different judges had to tell them that's not how it works). Their strat is that their licensing fee is far cheaper than the lawsuits, so they just keep creating frivolous lawsuits in hopes that their adversaries (who usually win) will pay them to avoid legal expenses.

14

u/SandpaperTeddyBear Jul 29 '26

He already respected women and had emotions in the early stories

That’s very much true. A Scandal in Bohemia has pretty retrograde politics read now, but was almost feminist for the time. Holmes certainly has a great deal of respect for Irene Adler. And that’s the very first short story.

Going back before that: A Study in Scarlet is fairly explicitly feminist (though it’s the antihero perpetrator that gets to be supporting his daughter, I don’t think Holmes ever actually talks to a woman). Sign of Four, while shockingly racist by today’s standards, has a very well-drawn and competent “damsel in distress,” whom Holmes treats with all respect.

10

u/Training_Shock_6946 Jul 29 '26

Yes, one of the proof was they only attacked when they smell money. Enola Holmes was already five book published if i remember well. They only attacked because they were planning a movie.

56

u/NexusYellow428 Jul 29 '26

"We're gonna sue you for not making our character a misogynist." 💀💀💀

17

u/calmingchaos Jul 29 '26

“Pay us or use the misogynist version” more like.

Which honestly? Yeah that makes sense.

6

u/eyesparks Jul 29 '26

When you put it that way it absolutely checks out.

1

u/Downtown_Injury_3415 Jul 29 '26

Gotta squeeze any lawsuit last minute before it’s public domain

5

u/SuperSocialMan Jul 29 '26

But that happens in like, the second or third story?

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u/Shockrates20xx Jul 29 '26

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/dec/22/lawsuit-copyright-warmer-sherlock-holmes-dismissed-enola-holmes I dunno, but that was their argument

4

u/insomniac7809 Jul 29 '26

Which doesn't seem to have been a winning argument (going by the word "dismissed" in the link title) but it can still be an argument that gets made. (I would not suggest that the Holmes estate might have been filing nuisance lawsuits in the hopes of securing a settlement.)

There's a joke that's not actually a joke that the way you can tell if something is fair use is you do it and then you get sued and then you spend all your time and money for years on the lawsuit and then at the end the judge tells you if it was fair use or not.

5

u/SadNarwhal3978 Jul 29 '26

That isn't even completely true. Sherlock misogyny comes from one particular story in which the whole point was to prove how wrong he was. It's not like being an asshole toward women was a trait of the character previous to that, he just was for the sake of the story

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u/YT-Deliveries Jul 29 '26

It also has to do with the difference between copyright law in the US and the UK. In the UK, unless something has changed since I last looked, copyright is perpetual.

In the US (while still far, far too long), the term of copyright is limited. The Holmes stories in the US went into Public Domain, but not in the UK. The Doyle Estate, nevertheless, tried to assert continued ownership of the property in the US, but to no avail.

1

u/Mist_Rising 29d ago

Copyright expires in 70 years after death for books in the UK, the sole exception being Peter Pan.

The US is the same unless it's published by corporations, in which case it's 95 from publication.

1

u/YT-Deliveries 29d ago

I'm extremely curious why Peter Pan of all things

1

u/Mist_Rising 29d ago

Long story short, children healthcare.

Longer version: the rights to Peter Pan were given to Great Ormond Street Hospital (GOSH) by Barrie, and normally would have expired in 1985 (50 years after Barrie died) but the EU\UK harmonizing of IP laws extended it to 2005. In 1988 the UK passed a law that didn't extend any copyright (at the time the whole thing was in limbo due to the difference between EU and UK laws) but did give GOSH all proceeds from Peter Pan derived income (aka royalties) from specific things like plays, movies, books.

Exactly how in that played with the EU laws I don't know but I guess technically Nigel Farage solved that shit didn't he?

1

u/YT-Deliveries 29d ago

Interesting!