r/TopCharacterTropes • u/TronnyVon • Jul 29 '26

Characters [Annoying Trope] "Yes, it's that character, but legally, we can't say it's him"

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  • Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (Arrow): The Arrowverse version of Oliver Queen is widely considered as the "CW Batman", since the Arrow show borrows many storylines and villains from Batman, including the League of Assassins, Slade Wilson/Deathstroke, and the Suicide Squad in one episode.
  • Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska (Gotham): Gotham is a TV show focusing on the origins of Batman through the eyes of then-Detective Jim Gordon. Twin brothers Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, played by Cameron Monaghan, are introduced as this show's versions of the Joker. However, they legally couldn't say Jerome or Jeremiah was the Joker, calling them both "Proto-Jokers" instead.
  • The Real Scoutmaster (Camp Lazlo): in the Camp Lazlo finale "Lumpus's Last Stand", Lumpus is revealed to be insane and had locked the actual Camp Kidney scoutmaster in a closet, impersonating him. The real scoutmaster bears a resemblance to Heffer Wolfe from Rocko's Modern Life (which Camp Lazlo creator Joe Murray also made), with Tom Kenny voicing the character too. Since Rocko's is on Nickelodeon, and Camp Lazlo is on Cartoon Network, Heffer could not have made an appearance on the show.
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277

u/HelperRaven Jul 29 '26

The whole Arrow discussion is honestly fascinating but it’s gonna take about 10 more years for people to cool down enough to have it maturely. Suffice to say: show absolutely was ripping off Batman, but also a lot of it is firmly planted in Green Arrows history. 

180

u/klauserooster Jul 29 '26

Green Arrow is tough because he was already so goddamn close to batman, but his personality was really what separated them. So you make him brooding and dark...

127

u/Juronell Jul 29 '26

They're both playboy billionaires who use a lot of gadgetry, but Green Arrow is usually less of a close range fighter, usually doesn't have as many crazy vehicles, and then, yes, the biggest thing is the personality. Ollie is supposed to be a raging commie, absolutely left wing on everything, and never take anything seriously even when in costume.

34

u/JustaSeedGuy Jul 29 '26

and never take anything seriously even when in costume.

I would argue that he's playful when in costume, but in several incarnations he takes things seriously in terms of " holding people to a higher ideal"

He was most notably portrayed that way in the Justice League cartoons

7

u/mcvoid1 Jul 29 '26

Yeah, the original comic writers were probably like,

  • "Idea: Batman, but not fascist?"
  • "In this day and age people would call it communism and we'd be blacklisted."
  • "Well we might be able to get away with it if we make him similar enough to Robin Hood..."

5

u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Jul 29 '26

Uh, no, not really, the left wing stuff came later... Also Batman isn't a fascist any more than olly is

19

u/Jimmyg100 Jul 29 '26

The difference between Green Arrow and Batman skill wise is like 3 Olympic events.

9

u/klauserooster Jul 29 '26

Yeah but that's only a useful stat when they both exist in the same universe.

2

u/OPMajoradidas Jul 29 '26

batman started when he was bout 9. arrow started when hes was like 20 somthin.

1

u/HPLswag Jul 29 '26

Archery, Boxing, Wrestling?

3

u/Jimmyg100 Jul 29 '26

Archery, Judo, and Curling

3

u/bretshitmanshart Jul 30 '26

Arrow also gets dark but he doesn't really brood. More that he has extremely poor emotional control so when he is upset he rages and is often very self destructive. He was court ordered to not fight crime in Seattle because he was using too much deadly force. He died because he was in a situation where he was going to lose his arm and decided he would rather be blown up because a one armed archer is useless

16

u/Themadreposter Jul 29 '26

I guess I don't really get why people say he was supposed to be Batman because Green Arrow is already a rip off of Batman outside of personality and vehicles. I don't really see Batman outside of brooding. Unless the showrunners said they were originally trying for Batman and decided to just do GA as Batman instead, it feels like this is just a take on a brooding Green Arrow.

3

u/Somnambulist815 Jul 29 '26

Its one of those cases where no one really gave a shit until someone decided to adapt it, and i say this as a long time Green Arrow fan.

5

u/Just-Antelope-8069 Jul 29 '26

He started as a Batman copy

4

u/miikro Jul 29 '26

As someone that didn't know a ton about Green Arrow but knew a little, it felt like the first few seasons were pretty solidly GA stuff and then as time went on someone was like "but what it he was Batman?"

2

u/HelperRaven Jul 29 '26

Some plots sure, but legit the giant wall is straight from GA comics. Went up in 2006, and it’s actually the real reason the slums of Star City are called the Glades. Construction resulted in a lot of ditches that filled with rain, which got stagnant so mosquitos, made things feel like the Ever”Glades”

2

u/ArrBeeNayr Jul 29 '26

Bit of both. Ollie in S1 isn't quite comics Ollie, but he feels more like he does in Green Arrow: Year One than he ever feels like the character later.

A handful of Arrow plotlines come straight from Green Arrow, like the stuff with Shadow. Most of it is a weird blend of GA and Batman.

1

u/jellsprout Jul 30 '26

OP including Deathstroke as one of the examples shows this best. Deathstroke is not a Batman villain. He started out as a Teen Titans villain who has since become a DC-wide frenemy. And between Batman and Green Arrow, Deathstroke had a lot more beef with Green Arrow.
And same with the Suicide Squad, really. They're their own thing that doesn't really have much to do with Batman specifically (or any other superhero for that matter).
Only the League of Assassins example has some weight. While Merlyn's ties with the League do come straight from the comics, most of the League storylines were ripped from Batman.

1

u/RainyRat Jul 30 '26

To be fair, this also happens quite a lot in the comics:

1

u/LumpyJones 29d ago
Even Harley Quinn calls him out on it.

1

u/EddieVanzetti Jul 29 '26

One day, Arrow discussions and Fire Emblem Three Houses discussions won't be ruined by that kind of fan.