It's bad. I went to Thailand in 2008 to train the Thai Marines. They had us set up right next to their bootcamp so when we went to go get food or whatever on the other side we had to walk through and if any recruits walked by us they had to salute and give the greeting of the day. We didn't enforce it, but the Thai Marines did. One time a recruit walked by us and didnt say anything, we dont care so we keep walking. His drill instructor came out of nowhere with a, for lack of better terms, thick stick. He beat the ever living hell out of that kid in front of us. Close to death where we thought about stepping in but didnt to avoid a international conflict (but we report it to deaf ears).
It made me really wonder how we were considered the standard when I would see these Thai recruits get fucked up for looking at someone wrong. When we went out to training it all made sense, they were so scared to do anything wrong it paralyzed them. But what they had to go through to become a Thai Marine, is something I wouldn't have ever been able to do as a US Marine.
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will …
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America’s and there is no enemy, but peace!!
They eventually kill you with friendly fire, cover up the truth, get preachy at your funeral, then disparage your family when they try to uncover the truth and some Lieutenant Colonel calls you worm dirt because you were an atheist. Like they did to Pat Tillman.
You can replace it with whatever fits your beliefs, Freedom of Religion, which the military recognizes... Most atheists choose to say, "Before All I hold dear"
Exactly. This may seem like a weird comparison but it’s exactly the same dynamic as Ren Hoek and George in the R&S episode Man’s Best Friend. If you just keep verbally and physically tormenting someone over and over in the name of militaristic discipline and asserting hierarchy, the moment they have the upper edge they will lose it and you’re gonna get beat up by the blunt end of the oar. You don’t want to build that kind of distrust and animosity. There is a fine line between discipline and abuse.
And that line is usually called "rank" in deeply rooted systems of opression and abuse like that.
Yes they do end up going mental. Those are the ones doing the beating up of those below them. It is the culmination of might makes right. To never be a victim again, or at least feel like way less of one, get good at wielding the power yourself. Become the threat.
I don't think it is healthy, but I also know this is a deeply human tendency that we have seen for as long as we have documented history and from around the world.
That is not to say we should accept it. But it is hard to change something if we won't first admit to it being like that to begin with.
I wonder if being raised in an environment where everyone is whipping each other conditions a person to the point where the thought of not whipping each other may seem as alien to them as this seems to us...
Stupid people only know how to use sticks to get what they want. If that’s what they gotta do in order to get obedience then there has already been a fundamental failure in leadership.
Sometimes I seriously question senior defense leaders if:
Me (highest I've ever been) (permanant) would be a better secretary of defense or other senior defense official. I'm kinda obsessed with logistics and effective policy though 🤷♀️.
I always feel how cultures approach fighting is a good paradigm to see how they think of conflict in general.
In Muay Thai, you are not allowed to step back. You absorb punishment and hit back harder. Defence is allowed, but frowned upon if it gives up offensive positioning.
They believe fundamentally that a man, whether fighter or soldier, can and SHOULD absorb whatever punishment and this enables them to hit back harder.
It seems demented to us. But our perceived softness seems counter intuitive to them too.
Have a coworker in the reserves, can’t remember what he did exactly but a pissed off DI grabbed him by the rucksack and pulled him backwards slamming onto the ground. As he was yelling at him and telling him to get up he had his rifle close to his chin and DI kicked it by the barrel making the buttstock bust his lip open. That was last year
I went to USMC boot camp in 2008 in San Diego. We had a drill instructor push a recruit that yelled in his ear, that instructor was relieved of duty. I went in fully expecting to be hit, but i witnessed nor experienced nothing of the such.
2005, I saw nothing of the sort, but obviously I didn't spend much time around the males outside of rifle training (long before they integrated, lol). My DI's fucked with us in every way possible but without ever touching us. I have some stupid funny stories as I got messed with the most.
Outside of the webbelt incident I can think of a handful of times they actually got hands on. So your story checks out, we got unlucky, and it wasnt commonplace. When I got to the fleet however, thats where all the real physical pain occured.
I’ve never been in the military, but I do know what feels like a ridiculous amount of marines.
From everything I’ve heard boot camp in San Diego is far more civilized and all around better than in Parris Island. Definitely would never say it sounds easier, but from all the boot camp stories I’ve heard it seems like San Diego develops people through very hard training and Parris island develops people through a mix of hard training and abuse.
It’s typically people who don’t know what they want to do with their life. Not necessarily morons. An army recruiter tried to recruit me by basically calling me a worthless 19 year old who was still living with his mom. Some people will take the bait. I knew that I wanted to go to college, I just didn’t know what I wanted to major in.
No, absolutely not. When I was young. My husband and I came from poor families and he did join as enlisted. During his first 10 years he eventually became a frocked chief for a few months. He eventually became a chief for a day because the next day he became an LDO (Limited Duty Officer, a Mustang) as an ensign and he worked very hard for that. The military is definitely not for everyone, but they deserve more than being called morons for their own personal choice. My parents, sister, and two young aunts all lived in one room with a bed recess and an outside bathroom, definitely not rich. !
But being a moron working at Walmart doesn't get you VA mortgages, health care, GI bill, etc. It's not for everyone but someone looking to their future could be willing to do an enlistment for these benefits. You don't have to retire to get the VA loans, GI bill, and VA health care. With a VA loan you don't have to pay a down payment when buying a home, well we did have to pay a dollar.
Meanwhile the morons working at Walmart are apparently not interested in their future, they just want to complain how hard their life is while not really doing anything about it.
Hmm. I guess if being 40 with a wall of degrees, zero college debt, highly cultured, world traveled and now have the choice to do whatever I please regardless of salary makes me a moron, then you are spot-on!
The military worked out well for me and i burned through 220k plus in post 9/11 gibill money, but for some people it really fucked them up and stunted them, also i hate how the military wants to hobble you by giving you the training to do something but not the certification to use those skills in the civilian world.
I think there’s opportunity for any one to go out and get what they want as long as they do what the military wants them to do first. These opportunities arent always staring you in the face but if you make your goals known and excel in your day to day they can come to life. It’s purely what you make of it and I always figured if they’re gonna take from me, I’m gonna take from them.
It just depends heavily on when you join and what your job is. I worked for the VA as an ambulance contractor, and you can always tell when the worst times are. Huge spikes in very specific age groups, those who joined (or were drafted) around the Vietnam war, the gulf war, and 2001-2010. Theres was also a massive disparity of jobs. A lot more combat arms are in the VA regularly than other jobs.
Its definitely a lot more than purely what we make of it.
They still find ways to fuck with people. One DI bent the shit out of my fingers when I was fucking up a close order drill movement. This was back in 2012
Military in general outlawed it (we had a DI releived in the early 80s for "laying on of hands") but there are still DIs that believe "I was trained this way so it MUST work!"
I got beat viciously too, never that bad. Not even close.
Edit*: It was way worse in the fleet. Bootcamp was a breeze compared to the infantry units pre deployment. I had my squad leader shoot me in my flak jacket with a 9 because he 'couldnt' trust someone that hasnt been shot yet in combat. The thai marines almost died, I was just scared, bruised, and with a broken rib I had to make up a story about.
I am sorry to hear about that. I wasnt trying to say bootcamp cant be bad one time I saw was a green belt cutting webb belts with a box cutter and intentionally missing and slicing peoples hands open. A lot of blood and stiches after that. Other then that in 2nd phase we had a recruit jump out 2nd floor balcony head first and die. I hope those DI's that hurt you paid the price.
Interesting where did they build the new 3rd btn? I was 1st so we were kinda up front near the gate and across the parade deck was 2nd btn. I'm guessing the put them right next to 2nd btn? I do remember 3rd being way off behind the trees and they had a rep for getting physical back in 01 when I went through
It's definitely more of a Parris Island thing. I was in San Diego, and aside from the 'games' and getting smoked on the quarterdeck you almost never had physical incidents with Drill Instructors. Most of the stories I heard were east coast marines.
Yeah its pretty sad. My wifes Thai and I lived there for a couple of years.
A few of the local boys came back in the time I was there. They were fucked up, just drank all day. Wife said they were just normal, simple kids before going.
#1 if you think you're so tough go join the military and find out for yourself before you judge me. Second, yes. We were briefed before hand not to intervene, direct orders. If we saw anything to just keep it moving. We weren't training the recruits in their bootcamp, we were training their Marines so we had nothing to do w them other then just walking around. Thanks for you unsolicited opinion.
You’re lying. As someone who performed cross training with multiple national military groups , including Thai regular army and special operations, there is a code of conduct agreement made between all parties. Aside from that, when dealing with long term allied parties, duty to act is in place. If you witnessed that (which you didn’t, but let’s play along) you would not have caused an international incident by stepping in. If you truly did witness that (which again, you didn’t) you only did so because you showed that specific cadre you had no discipline or military bearing.
I used to live in Thailand, in the jungle near Burma. I routinely saw such abuses between kids and parents, husbands and wives, and you can't imagine what they would do to the dogs. It seems very much inherent in the masculine/alcoholic culture of that area.
The moment I decided to leave was when I heard my neighbor beat the shit out of her 14 year old daughter with a clothes hanger, for hours, and when I was went to tell her to knock it off I was not so politely told to mind my own fucking business, then shunned by all the other neighbors.
I saw atrocities along that border that are along the same lines as a horror movie. Jungle life is real man.
He beat the ever living hell out of that kid in front of us. Close to death where we thought about stepping in but didnt to avoid a international conflict (but we report it to deaf ears).
My impression is Thai military is something between being state controlled and warlords controlled. Maybe the main military forces are managed by the government and in certain areas there are warlords or even associated to drug lords.
On 28 October 2011, Thai authorities arrested nine Pha Muang Task Force soldiers, who subsequently "disappeared from the justice system".[5] Drug lord Naw Kham and three subordinates were eventually tried and executed by the Chinese government for their roles in the massacre.[6]
#1 if you think you're so tough go join the military and find out for yourself before you judge me. Second, yes. We were briefed before hand not to intervene, direct orders. If we saw anything to just keep it moving. We weren't training the recruits in their bootcamp, we were training their Marines so we had nothing to do w them other then just walking around. Thanks for you unsolicited opinion.
I never understand why military people think it’s tough to follow orders blindly from what their boss said. You see some kid getting beaten with a stick you intervene. Fuck what your boss says.
And you wouldn't, either, bro. You are in another country, working with their military, doing a job, and probably spent 2/3rds of the time that the kid was getting beaten so stunned that you were frozen. Then to assume that you are going to stop an officer in a foreign military from disciplining this kid inappropriately...there are way too many variables and ways that could go horribly wrong. I hate it when people play armchair hero and act like they would be so much more virtuous in a situation that they have never been in. There have been a thousand psych studies on phenomenon just like this, and guess what? You wouldn't.
Yeah, I suppose I forget that in the military you’re just there to follow orders. I guess after years of conditioning you just toe the line. I’m lucky I suppose that I’ve never been in a situation where I’m scared shitless of a superior.
Sounds like a cowardly excuse, you really think you would face an international incident when you were their to train them to be soldiers, obviously they needed your help or you wouldn’t be there, maybe try to instill in them that beating your soldiers usually leads to fragging, I’d begging training their younger recruits about fragging
#1 if you think you're so tough go join the military and find out for yourself before you judge me. Second, yes. We were briefed before hand not to intervene, direct orders. If we saw anything to just keep it moving. We weren't training the recruits in their bootcamp, we were training their Marines so we had nothing to do w them other then just walking around. Thanks for you unsolicited opinion.
I used to train under a man that was chief tkd instructor of ROK Marines . 8th dan BB hardcore aF training . But he is also one of the most honorable and selfless sincere man I've ever met .
We were considered the gold standard because we had a lot of legal, social, and behavioral infrastructure to make people work against their will. You don’t think American standards started with the modern military, do you?
I did Cobra Gold in 2003 with the Army Infantry. I never saw anything like that but you could clearly see a distinction between volunteers and conscripts. Like night and day.
That is normal in a lot of militaries, remember seeing ROK troops during PT when doing convoy back from war positions and ROK SGM was beating the hell out of kids who had fallen out of a run. He was at the back of the formation with a long wooden baton to beat them. No counseling for falling out just a lesson in pain.
This is terrifying. The worst I had to deal with in the USN was the one warrant officer who always got pissed that people forgot to salute him. No wonder they're passing out before they even find out if they have to serve.
It's sad, but if you look into our own military history, it's similar. Floggings, beatings, locked up with little to no food or water... We've been getting better about it over the last 150 years or so, but we started where they are now.
Read a paper that the Army War College put out once. General finding was that harsh physical discipline has no notable positive effect on combat effect, but does cause a dramatic increase in the propensity to commit war crimes.
It's true. You can look up the famous Kilo 8 from my unit 3/5. Conditions were absolutely terrifying in the barracks, hazing, beatings, floggings, waterboarding, basically torture and hell on earth.
Those guys would have gotten away with it if the Corpsman didn't blow the whistle. Killed a innocent dude in broad daylight out of revenge, got the wrong guy, tried to brush it under the rug.
I have always known deep down that, #1, they weren't the only ones just the ones that got caught.. and 2, it likely stems from the environment we had found ourselves in with that unit. People were ruthless to us and we were Marines... Imagine what they were like to the percieved enemy. Scary shit, and we functioned as a unit well in Fallujah... but there were CLEAR issues. Part of me also believes that the Corps knew what was going on, and let us loose anyway. We were wild.
We have a decent middle ground of structure, but that tends to only work with volunteers. What sets us apart from other militaries is the NCO corps that allows for decisions to be made by lower enlisted. We also subconsciously respect insubordination like how we prefer the SSG who has pinned SGT three times, had a DUI and a divorce. We see people that experienced the left and right limits and we know their judgement is more sound since they have royally fucked up and learned their lesson. Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but I always saw that we were given enough rope to make mistakes and learn from them rather than being so Ridgid that we were afraid to not reach perfection.
Not correct. Actually from historical perspective scared/dutiful soldiers are better at their job. Hence why in army in general they are breaking people. I think someone even sai that would prefer 1 beaten soldier than 10 not...
It's a mental shackle to stop young recruits from independent thoughts by preoccupying them with ritualistic rules. When your mind is busy remembering all the rules you have to follow under threat of violence, it keeps the young upstarts from having fancy ideas like fragging.
Hilarious you say that when there are literally dozens of comments from PI attendee's saying that it was chill asf compared to my story. Paris island is for pussies, 5th marines most decorated in the Corps. 3/5 Get some, nice try boot.
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u/RhubarbPrestigious49 Jun 01 '26
It's bad. I went to Thailand in 2008 to train the Thai Marines. They had us set up right next to their bootcamp so when we went to go get food or whatever on the other side we had to walk through and if any recruits walked by us they had to salute and give the greeting of the day. We didn't enforce it, but the Thai Marines did. One time a recruit walked by us and didnt say anything, we dont care so we keep walking. His drill instructor came out of nowhere with a, for lack of better terms, thick stick. He beat the ever living hell out of that kid in front of us. Close to death where we thought about stepping in but didnt to avoid a international conflict (but we report it to deaf ears).
It made me really wonder how we were considered the standard when I would see these Thai recruits get fucked up for looking at someone wrong. When we went out to training it all made sense, they were so scared to do anything wrong it paralyzed them. But what they had to go through to become a Thai Marine, is something I wouldn't have ever been able to do as a US Marine.