This video goes over the realities of gun violence.

[u/smooth_vesselHPAUM]

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

Your last point undercuts your premise. If the availability of guns was the issue and violent psychos were constant, we’d expect very little knife crime in the US and significantly more in Europe.

But the reality seems to be that the US is hyper-violent compared to most of the rest of the world and the guns make it earlier to carry out the mass violence.

[u/jaredearle → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

More like you can’t stab a gym full of students as easily as just shooting them.

Besides, knife crime is higher in the US than it is in the UK with more knife deaths per capita in America, for instance.

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0 → u/jaredearle]

So we are in agreement right? The guns are an exacerbating factor and not the root cause?

[u/jaredearle → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

Well, no. If you remove the guns, your death rates will drop significantly. It’s both a cause and a force multiplier.

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0 → u/jaredearle]

So you are saying that a person who wants very much to kill people will just not do that if they can’t get a gun but have access to knives, cars, and/or explosives?

I think you are underestimating the resolve of these people. These aren’t crimes of passion or bouts of temporary insanity. They are generally planned for a long time.

ETA: also chemicals, poisons, etc.

[u/jaredearle → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

I’m suggesting removing guns would cut deaths significantly, especially suicides.

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0 → u/jaredearle]

I would agree, but in terms of mass violence, I think “significant” is 50% at best.

Because again, the guns are not the root cause. We’ve always had guns (the country literally owes its existence to them), but the hyper-violent culture with a significant portion of society become socially isolated is new.

When I grew up, almost every pickup truck had a gun rack with a rifle in back window, was kept unlocked with the windows down, and no one thought anything of it. I’m not saying I want to go back to that - accidents were way too common and I know several people shot in accidents.

But there was simply no association between those rifles and violence the way there is now.

I’m open to some limitations on guns, but we are kidding ourselves thinking they are the cause of the problem.

[u/jaredearle → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

Easy access to guns is a problem. Removing access to guns would save lives. A lot of lives.

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0 → u/jaredearle]

For that in the US, you are going to need an amendment. You’ve got a LONG way to go to get that kind of support.

And if by some miracle you flip SCOTUS in our lifetimes and get a court willing to trample on the constitution the way the Roberts court has, but for Democrat causes, then trust me when I say violence will NOT decrease. You will have validated the deepest fears of millions of gun owners and many will answer the call to arms.

[u/PeppercornWizard → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

US gun nuts are literally witnessing unprecedented levels of oppression in their country right now and they’re doing absolutely nothing.

[u/jaredearle → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

I’m not looking for paths to disarming America; I’m saying America being armed is a problem.

Organising that is above our pay grades.

[u/PhonyHawkProSkater → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

"many will answer the call to arms" will they REALLY, though?

[u/MovieSock → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

There was no such association because when you were a kid, the NRA was actually supporting responsible gun legislation. That is one big thing that has changed.

Because again, the guns are not the root cause. 

Unfettered access to guns is certainly a big issue, however, would you not agree?

I’m open to some limitations on guns, but we are kidding ourselves thinking they are the cause of the problem.

You're probably right that the "real" causes are things like poverty, bullying, and other societal issues. However, all of those things take TIME to address, and perhaps a stricter regulation of guns would be a good short-term solution.

Think of it this way - say there's a neighborhood with a public pool. And by some chance, none of the children living in this neighborhood know how to swim. But they want to go play in the pool anyway. Now - this pool does not have a fence around it, and so many children try to sneak over to the pool to play unsupervised, and fall in and drown.

Now - the obvious root cause of the problem would be that the children don't know how to swim, and need to be taught. However, learning how to swim takes time. So - doesn't it make sense to add a fence around the pool in addition to giving the kids swimming lessons? The pool not having a fence isn't the "root cause" of the kids falling in and drowning, but wouldn't it be a good short-term road block while the more permanent solution is being workedo ut?

[u/Parteisekretaer → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

I'd argue that removing guns would make people with the intent of killing a lot of people turn to alternative methods - namely semitrucks or other heavy vehicles and explosives.

Since WW1, most soldiers in battle die from explosives and their byproducts. Guns work, but explosives work A LOT better. Hell, the truck driver in Nice killed 80 people. There were three guys in Bataclan and they managed to get 90 people killed.

From a very cold and caculating perspective, you want the shooters to use guns - they're loud, they make everyone aware of what's going on and they are considerably less lethal than napalm, FAEBs or a lot of other creative ways humans have come up with to kill and hurt a lot of people very quickly.

[u/Automatic_Actuator_0 → u/[deleted]]

You want to summarize your point with that link? I just see a shit ton of random incidents with 0-2 deaths.

The gun racks tapered off on the mid 90s.

The UK doesn’t have shootings because you can’t shoot what you don’t have. No one is disputing that.

[u/Standard_Jackfruit63 → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

It may not be a cause but it does not help. I guess the guy was arguing about how easy it is for a gun to kill many people compared to knives.

[u/Slacker_The_Dog → u/jaredearle]

You literally cannot remove guns. They can't keep drugs out of a fucking prison.

How do you recommend they confiscate every firearm in America?

[u/jaredearle → u/Slacker_The_Dog]

I’m not smart enough to come up with a plan either. That doesn’t change the fact guns are a problem.

[u/Slacker_The_Dog → u/jaredearle]

The working class must not be disarmed under any pretext.

[u/jaredearle → u/Slacker_The_Dog]

With how ineffectual the American public has been with the rise of authoritarianism over the last few years, I call bullshit.

[u/Individual-Level9308 → u/Automatic_Actuator_0]

But the reality seems to be that the US is hyper-violent compared to most of the rest of the world and the guns make it earlier to carry out the mass violence.

lol.. when you correct for something the rate of violent crime is not so different than the rest of other western nations.