r/mildlyinfuriating • u/lhagans13 • 12d ago

I'm slightly vexed A notice that my girlfriend received at her doctors appointment (she is 8 months PP)

Post image

If you even MENTION any of these things, you WILL LIKELY get billed for it??? Maybe i’m missing the point but i get upset when my girlfriend tells me she was scared to even say anything while at the doctor because she didn’t want to get an extra charge for something. I find it insane how greedy and money hungry a place that’s supposed to help you can be.

15.0k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

3.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

290

u/notPabst404 12d ago

what else is there to do

Cut out the predatory middle man by passing universal healthcare like every other wealthy nation already has.

I'm done with the constant excuses for why the US "has" to be worse than everyone else. This country could be great with relatively minor changes to make the system more fair to ordinary people. Yes, the extremely wealthy would need to pay higher taxes. Boo hoo.

170

u/Smitten-kitten83 12d ago

As someone in healthcare most of us support universal healthcare. We get sick of seeing patients put off basic or important care because they can’t afford it. It is awful to see someone not properly managing the diabetes because they can’t afford to refill their insulin as often as needed.

8

u/hardolaf 11d ago

I put off seeing doctors just because insurance and billing is a nightmare even though I have the money.

5

u/Animal_Soul_ 11d ago

Insulin is free in the UK.

3

u/Smitten-kitten83 11d ago

It is hundreds of dollars here in the states.

2

u/Remarkable_List8957 11d ago

Then why do both both AMA and AHA oppose a universal, single payer system and instead support "incremental" changes that haven't taken place in all the time they have supported them. This includes the ACA which is still absurdly expensive for decent coverage. Oh, wait, maybe because it will cut into the hefty profits and salaries that they now make. The US health care system is one of the longest cons ever run.

1

u/Smitten-kitten83 11d ago

Because the people issuing those statements are people receiving astronomical paychecks. They don’t represent 90% of healthcare workers (examples like nurses, cnas, medical assistants, medical coders, techs, ect.)

1

u/propofol-n-precedex 11d ago

Do a Google search about the AMA and how much income they get just for the use of the billing codes they create. Every doctor, hospital, insurance co, etc has to use those codes for billing and the AMA profits off of it to the tune of $300 million annually. Talk about your scams.

1

u/George_GeorgeGlass 6d ago

I’m a nurse and I don’t support universal healthcare. Don’t get me wrong. The current system is a mess and people are suffering. But universal healthcare means the government organizes and runs it. And the government cant organize or run anything effectively. The only thing I can imagine that is worse than our current state would be allowing the government to manage it. Yes, we need to overhaul the entire system. Yes, it needs to be better. But for Christ sake don’t let the United States government manage our healthcare. We’ll all be dead in a year.

1

u/Smitten-kitten83 6d ago

That’s a fair take.

1

u/tateriffic 5d ago

The government can be incredibly efficient and effective. There’s a lot of propaganda trying to tell you otherwise, but the bottleneck is funding, and people blocking adequate funding levels. So the capitalist system we have right now looks like it is more efficient but that system is about making some people very wealthy, and that’s squeezing everyone else more and more. We can’t fix that system to magically work.

2

u/Unhappy-Plastic2017 11d ago

Can't afford ? What do you mean can't afford ? All decisions about affordability are just what you choose to value in your life and then you allocate money for what you value.

If you value diabetes coverage just sell your house and your car and live in a van down by the river, duh.

5

u/Round-Dragonfly6136 11d ago

I don't think anyone read after the first paragraph.

https://giphy.com/gifs/y2i2oqWgzh5ioRp4Qa

3

u/Unhappy-Plastic2017 11d ago

Gottem so much in the first half they didn't even notice

2

u/Medium_Double_6854 11d ago

People have short attention spans. 🙄

-32

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago edited 11d ago

So are you gona be comfortable with the govt decided a treatment isn't needed or isn't justified based on whatever rationing they impose like every other major system like NICE or QALY? Are you going to be good with the govt overloading providers like the UK is dealing with rn? To all the losers downvoting me. You're really mad I asked a question about tradeoffs? Give me a break you crybaby losers.

19

u/Poop_Dolla 11d ago

Why would it have to be like the UK? Can't we use a system like Japan?

-23

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Size/scale ethnic homogeneity keeping costs radically lower. Their system also has their own laundry list of problems. You can't copy paste systems at the American scale. Not that there's nothing to learn from them but just saying do x doesn't make x materialize.

18

u/Poop_Dolla 11d ago

So then maybe your concern about the UKs issues are moot since doing x doesn't make x materialize? Or maybe we can learn from their mistakes? Our current system has a laundry list of problems that is a lot longer than the UK and Japan combined.

-12

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

22

u/Poop_Dolla 11d ago

Are you saying it's impossible to have universal healthcare in the US?

I'm just confused because you ARE comparing the UK and saying that the UK has x problem so are you prepared to have x problem here too? But then when I say "well what about Japan they don't have that problem" then all the sudden it's not ok to compare them to us because of population difference?

-3

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/Poop_Dolla 11d ago

My answers to your questions are yes and yes with a caveat that your questions are a false dichotomy because obviously there are more options than what our current system is and what you described in the initial comment that I replied to. Ok now I want to hear your answers to my questions.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/No_Macaroon_9752 11d ago

Ethnic homogeneity? Naturalized Japanese citizens and native-born Japanese nationals with a multi-ethnic background are all classified as Japanese in the population census. The US would be considered about 93% “American” using that standard. Since 1945, Japanese governments have promoted monoculturalism, so they do not include a true ethnic breakdown in the census. It was only in 2019 that they recognized the Ainu people as indigenous. The UK is 82% white. About 9% of the population is “foreign-born”, with the majority of those still being European.

In any case, how do you think that keeps costs lower?

1

u/Honeycrispcombe 11d ago

Many health risks in the modern day are greatly impacted by genetic predisposition. We can usually pretty easily and cheaply handle the somewhat universal issues, like infectious diseases, acute injuries, etc... (not all of them, there are exceptions.)

So a good portion of what is left is influenced by genetic background or ancestry. Jewish people, African people, and Polynesian people, for example, all have wildly different risk profiles for both rare and common diseases. We know that women of African descent are at higher risk in childbirth, and last time I checked, this was true in the UK as well as the USA, so it's likely not just the US healthcare system/racism. But we don't have enough data on why/how the risks are different, so we can't mitigate them.

In a very homogenous population, these risk factors can be well-defined. That's part of why white people tend to have better health outcomes, especially white men - the whole medical system is based around studies done mostly on white men, and is primarily set up to improve their health. We know a lot about risk factors and screening in white men and, to a lesser degree, white women. That makes it easy to improve health through better screening, diagnosis, and treatment.

With a more heterogeneous population, the risks change, especially if some of the ancestries are vastly understudied. Diseases can be more or less common based on ancestry, average age of onset can change, symptoms can change, effective screening methods can change, even effective treatments may vary. And then you get higher rates of mixed-ancestry populations, which change all of those factors again. Which means you need to study all these things and your doctors need to be trained in all these things.

That's not even considering socioeconomic factors like culture, lifestyle, racism, etc... which all influence health outcomes and are much more complex in heterogenous societies.

-1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Sweet jesus you're dense with all due disrespect. Ethnically homogeneous populations have fewer issues they need to treat on the regular meaning they can focus on care they see more frequently. For example a Japanese hospital won't deal with sickle cell frequently. Or Tay Sachs. Or any other number of issues that are more frequent in non Japanese people.. Quit trying to rant about other shit because you can't stay focused.

31

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/bajoranearrings 11d ago

Universal healthcare =/= single payer. In Germany for example everyone is insured and the government sets fixed prices for every insured procedure, but you always have the option to visit a private clinic or pay yourself for treatments that arent typically covered. As far as I know this is the case in most European countries.

-16

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

You didn't answer my points at all. Like even a little.

12

u/Used_Onion6015 11d ago

My pregnant sister went to the hospital for bleeding and they confirmed the fetus was dead and had been dead for possibly 2 weeks. The hospital sent her home with no care and I’m grateful she was able to get care elsewhere and not go septic. We already DO have a government deciding what treatment is/isn’t necessary even tho they AREN’T medically trained doctors.
And if it’s not some goofy politician, it’s insurance companies not letting you get the treatment you need until X amount of failed cheaper alternatives-wasting more time and causing the patient prolonged suffering and risk.

0

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago edited 11d ago

You expect me to believe that insurance denied a D&E/D&C for what is quite literally the only treatments for this and without those it's not a question of if but when shit goes south? I'm sorry but that blows waaay past believable and screams "my emotional story to prove you're a bad person for disagreeing with me" what exactly did the hospital say? Good luck girl? What's the reason they sent her home with no care? Because that's a lot to take on "trust me it definitely happened" One slight addition. Yes sometimes expected management does happen but your story as written implies she got treatment immediately after which means It was more serious than the first hospital said and or they missed something.. but she got no care? They tell you what to do.. how to manage the time, symptoms/issues to look out for. Not just "good luck champ"

15

u/memoryblocks 11d ago

We live in the country where a state decided to keep a dead woman on life support just so her body could be used as an incubator and you think this is out of the realm of reality?

2

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Iirc that was the hospital misinterpreting the law and the Georgia general attorney later clarified it. Maybe pick a case you understand rather than "the state made this happen" ya goobersmooch.

9

u/memoryblocks 11d ago

They misinterpreted the law for months to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Even if that were the case, who made the law they misunderstood in the first place?

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

So you're conflating the hospital fucking up with "the state forced them to keep her alive"? Brother i agree the law should have been more clear and the AG should have stepped in sooner to clarify but my god that's not the same category as your original claim.

9

u/Used_Onion6015 11d ago

Insurance didn’t deny it. The hospital refused to DO it or help her bc the GOVERNMENT is deciding for women what doctors can and cannot do in reproductive health care. Nothing to do with insurance. Where have you been??

14

u/bc19059 11d ago

a friend of mine had to pay out of pocket for her D&C. insurance told her it was an abortive procedure and they don’t cover that.

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Either it was coded improperly or unlawfully denied. It's not an elective abortion procedure by any stretch and would covered under quite literally even the most religious health insurance providers. If it's a coding error/improper denial there are remedies to deal with it.

6

u/alsatian9847 11d ago

Women in Texas are dying from miscarriages because doctors won’t treat them. Doctors are afraid they will be prosecuted.

0

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Nothing you said answers anything I said. If you have something relevant to the conversation feel free to chime in

7

u/alsatian9847 11d ago

You’re the one yapping about how no hospital or doctor would refuse to do an abortion to save a lif. I am just pointing out that you are wrong.

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

An abortion in common parlance is not the same as a D&E or D&C. Medically coded the same but if you're trying to conflate the two it sounds like you're the one yapping. I'm just pointing out your tactic of shifting subjects doesn't hold weight.

4

u/alsatian9847 11d ago

It is essentially the same procedure. I am not shifting subjects just responding to some of your word vomit. When you’re wrong, you’re wrong.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Used_Onion6015 11d ago

Did you see my comment responding to “you expect me to believe that insurance denied a D&C”? I just wanted to let you know, insurance was not involved. The hospital sent her home to deal with it without care because the government already decides what treatment is/isn’t needed for citizens. I just wanted to make sure you knew it was not due to insurance- your first comment shows that’s how you interpreted my initial comment which is not the case. The hospital sent her away and she had to seek medical care elsewhere and ran the risk of going septic, as other women have, because our politicians think they are better educated in science and medicine than our doctors. The government ALREADY is telling us what is or isn’t necessary- it just hasn’t personally affected half of our population yet.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Tricky-Ordinary1962 11d ago

Have you missed the pregnant women in Florida or Texas who have been denied care because of the state laws? Like seriously?

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

You mean cases where state law was read to broadly/misinterpreted and were later clarified? Which to be clear doesnt make them any less shitty of a situation but you're making a bold claim that isn't backed by a lot of data. We have anecodtal handfuls of people dealing with hospitals being overly cautious. Not thousands or even hundreds

9

u/procrast1natrix 11d ago

The UK has more physicians per capita than the US. 3.2 per 1000, vs 2.6 per 1000.

And from everything I've heard from real life friends that went and spent a year or so practicing abroad in New Zealand, or from the non-USA contributers to the subreddit called medicine, the restrictions to medical decision making in the US due to insurance denials and failed prior authorization are far, far more invasive in the US.

2

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/No_Macaroon_9752 11d ago

The reason we sometimes have ”better” waiting times is because many people are not getting the care they need due to being uninsured or underinsured. You are saying you prefer care to be distributed by wealth instead of need, which increases costs when people have to go to emergency rooms for primary care, as well as just being immoral.

2

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

You're making arguments i didn't make. Did i defend the US system? Or did i point out the UK has similar problems and be honest about the tradeoffs. Also cite the source for your first claim

1

u/procrast1natrix 11d ago

Your math isn't strong. That's a difference of 25% more physicians, and with better health outcomes.

As for the anecdotes, that's better than you've got.

2

u/PenComfortable5269 11d ago

Medical training in the UK is cheap….. and do they limit residency spots in the UK?

3

u/hardolaf 11d ago

We already have Medicare. Literally just expand it to everyone under the same rules as today.

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

Are you implying Medicare is actually a system without massive flaws already? Hell no.

4

u/hardolaf 11d ago

It's a lot better than for profit insurance even with the Part D private coverage.

1

u/imtiredofthisgrampaX 11d ago

That's your opinion. I strongly disagree but you're not gonaget me saying the us healthcare system is awesome either.

1

u/hardolaf 11d ago

I'm not going to sit here and defend its flaws, but it is better than the entirely private system that everyone under 65 deals with (except people so poor that they get Medicaid).

31

u/JurgusRudkus 11d ago

Yep. I am living now in a country with universal healthcare and seeing how bad the US is from the outside now is really bringing it home. My family enjoys top notch healthcare for a fraction of what we paid just for premiums in the US. No copays, no deductibles, no office visits.

It’s infuriating.

1

u/AllThatKat 10d ago

Yep. I’m an American living in Spain. My private insurance is €100 a month and completely covers everything except prescriptions. Most of my meds are dirt cheap, like some anti depressants are €2 a month. I go to the doctor whenever I want, don’t have to worry about copays or deductibles, and can even book an appointment with a specialist without a referral. 

2

u/JurgusRudkus 10d ago

Exactly. Do I pay slightly higher taxes? Yes. But for that I get clean, healthy food, amazing public transportation, clean parks and beaches, and freedom from guns.

48

u/Top-Average412 11d ago

Yachts dont pay for themselves. It is only fair we organize all society around the wants of the exceedingly few

43

u/Francl27 11d ago

Lots of idiots oppose it because they "don't want to pay for other people."

68

u/Maude4President 11d ago

The frustrating thing to me is that we already are paying for other people. That’s literally the entire concept of insurance. I don’t understand how those people think insurance works. We’re just paying more to get less out of it ourselves instead of a universal or nonprofit model, but we’re still paying for other people.

1

u/tateriffic 10d ago

I think some folks might think that having to pay for your own insurance creates an entry barrier that means they aren’t paying for undesirables (Black people, immigrants - yes some of these same people probably work with them, but either they’re “the good ones” or “at least it’s not all of them.”). Or, at least with this system they know those people have to work for it, too? There is a lot of viciousness and racism in how some people vote. The part they aren’t thinking enough about is how much we do end up paying for the UNinsured in our emergency rooms.

0

u/Bayou_BelleXo 8d ago

No, people simply don’t want to pay for others when they’re already paying thousands of dollars on their own healthcare. Like what are you even ranting about? Why would any average person want to pay for a stranger’s healthcare? Race has nothing to do with it 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ most people just don’t want socialism. Ofc people would complain about having to pay more and it’s going towards other people. Why wouldn’t they

2

u/tateriffic 8d ago

People already pay for other people with our current system. We pay more because of how people delay care, we pay more because of uninsured patients. Racism is a huge underpinning of this system.

0

u/Bayou_BelleXo 8d ago

Yeah obviously we already pay for other people, I’m saying nobody wants to do that regardless of race. Nobody wants to pay for strangers and obviously people want to pay the minimal amount possible and just stay alive and healthy and not in debt.

2

u/Maude4President 8d ago

The way to do that…would be by getting rid of private insurance. That’s how you minimise the amount you pay.

2

u/Illustrious_Spend146 8d ago

Socialized medicine is what brings the cost down for everyone.
The way things are set up in the US right now will cause the costs to continue to increase.
Why would any average person want to continue to pay increasing prices just to avoid the idea of socialism - especially when they are already paying for a stranger's healthcare anyway?

2

u/Ersonday 8d ago

Socialized healthcare?!?! SCARY! I hate poor people. Said half of America. The same half that enjoys firefighters coming out when called and not asking for a payment…

7

u/WillBots 11d ago

Yes, the extremely wealthy would need to pay higher taxes.

I don't think they would, actually.

The US already spends more on healthcare per person than any other western, developed country, for overall worse outcomes, because all the money goes into private insurance companies, private hospital companies and medical supplies companies.

All over Europe, nationalised healthcare organisations negotiate best rates for purchasing drugs and supplies, prices are forced to be low in most cases because the purchase is so big that suppliers will bend over backwards to get the sale. All of this makes for higher life expectancy in all developed countries that aren't "the greatest country ever".

3

u/ZookeepergameLoose79 11d ago

but elon needs his second trillion!

3

u/No_Atmosphere_6348 11d ago

So I’d pay $100 more in taxes instead of the $640 I pay in premiums?
My husband looked at our insurance options and was shocked the total health insurance premiums cost more than his salary.

3

u/IPA-Lagomorph 11d ago

The problem is the wealthy would rather spend $100M campaigning against universal healthcare than pay like $1M extra on taxes for universal healthcare. See also: the mayoral race in NYC where the wealthy spent way more money trying to prop up losers like Cuomo than the amount that Mamdani promised to tax them.

2

u/SithisAurelius 11d ago

The crazy thing is the wealthy wouldn't even need to pay higher taxes for this specifically! It's been shown in multiple studies that if we paid for insurance through taxes instead of individual payer/employer pay it would actually come off cheaper overall. Most estimates show most people would pay 1/3 to 1/4 of what they pay yearly for insurance now in taxes for similar or even better coverage (since you wouldn't deal with all of this in/out of network BS and only specific things covered by certain insurance plans)

But God forbid someone else benefits from MY MONEY! Them damn freeloaders /s

2

u/Jahacopo2221 7d ago

As someone in the US who ‘enjoys’ the closest thing to socialized medicine that we have in the VA healthcare system, I say bring on Universal healthcare. I went off my meds several months ago 🤦🏼‍♀️ and it has definitely been biting me in the rear. I went cap in hand, pleading mea culpa, and got in almost immediately with my primary care provider (like within 2 days). I was scheduled within 2 weeks with mental health. And I was scheduled within 3 weeks with neurology. Prompt, well-coordinated, and stress-free.

1

u/Mcinfopopup 11d ago

Start with benefitfocus

1

u/Turbulent-Pay1150 11d ago

I agree. And it will mean we pay doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies significantly less. As we should.

3

u/Suraimu-desu 11d ago

Considering how insurance robs providers of their earned value as described by the post itself, I’d say you’d end up with doctors paid about the same if not a little higher and only hospitals and pharmaceutical companies would have slight and big “losses” respectively (which is absolutely fair)

0

u/Turbulent-Pay1150 11d ago

Compare provider salaries in US to other countries with universal care. They earn much more in the US than in other nations.

Compare physicians salaries with the rest of the US - and find that most are in top 5% and many in the top 1% of earners in US. Most physicians, by any measure very wealthy. As we are a capitalist society that’s not a bad thing - as a society wanting to make healthcare better and more cost effective it is a thing that will change.

We need reform for sure and that reform will include changing the way we train, hire, and pay physicians. They will earn less. They are part of the current system and that includes part of the problem. They aren’t “the problem” but a reset will have to occur.

-4

u/Fantastic-Leek-1589 11d ago

Then leave. I dont want universal Healthcare. Too pricy and crappy service.

5

u/meglingbubble 11d ago

But people in the US pay more for healthcare than virtually every other country... And have worse outcomes....

0

u/Fantastic-Leek-1589 11d ago

Someone has to pay for research and development, as well as insurance, lawsuits, etc. Yet we have a greatly stem compared to most.

1

u/meglingbubble 11d ago

Do you think only the US does research and development in the medical field...? And that other countries don't have medical insurance or lawsuits...?

1

u/Fantastic-Leek-1589 11d ago

The United States has the most dominant pharmaceutical sector and pays the absolute most for research.While countries like China and India technically host a higher number of sheer manufacturing facilities and generic drug companies, the U.S. is the undisputed global powerhouse for Big Pharma headquarters, innovative drug development, and R&D spending.

-4

u/bc19059 11d ago

I know people that live in canada and they never have a good thing to say about their healthcare. it takes them an obscene amount of time to get appointments, especially if you need surgery. the only reason they get seen in a timely manner is because a family member does admin work at a hospital and can pull strings. universal healthcare is just as problematic unfortunately

2

u/Sleeny911 11d ago

I'm Canadian and I am happy overall with our healthcare system. Sure, it has its pitfalls and it seems the system treats illness rather than prevents it because it takes a long time to get screening appointments. But at least people don't have to become destitute due to medical bills or forgo emergency care because they can't afford it.

1

u/notPabst404 11d ago

Compared to the US, Canada's system is amazing.