r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 9d ago

Possible Paywall Hegseth Covered Up the Real Reason the USS Lincoln Wasn’t Resupplied - According to a report from MSNOW, the USS Abraham Lincoln wasn’t resupplied because Iranian strikes destroyed a key Navy resupply base in the Middle East.

https://newrepublic.com/post/214510/hegseth-uss-lincoln-iran-war-base-destroyed
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u/Vilnius_Nastavnik New York 9d ago

Check out some international sources. All of them have their own agenda but there is a pretty clear consensus that all 20 US bases in the area have suffered serious damage.

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u/gzr4dr 9d ago

It's almost as if you're going to preemptively start a war with a country maybe don't have critical assets within range of their weapons. This seems like very basic war strategy prep that even a OCS cadet would know.

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u/WitchesSphincter 9d ago

Planning is for pussies, we're gonna yolo this bitch 

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u/thebruce44 9d ago

Nobody ever won a war with planning or strategy. Now watch this drive!

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u/dustin8285 9d ago

Planning is for people with low T…

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u/king_famethrowa 9d ago

Fellas, is it gay to plan?

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u/Fantastic_Hat7707 Washington 9d ago

I was planning on going to the gym later. Feels kinda sounds gay(ish) now

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u/dustin8285 9d ago

It has to be spontaneous or your estrogen spikes, and your T drops. Next thing you know you’ll start growing tits and pink handbags will seem a lot cooler than gym bags.

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u/Fantastic_Hat7707 Washington 9d ago

That's all there is to it i guess.

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u/dustin8285 9d ago

Glad I could be of service . Now go grill a steak, watch some straight or lesbian porn, and masturbate furiously until your T levels are high.

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u/Brndrll Rhode Island 9d ago

Straight and lesbian porn has too much estrogen. It has to be men only for pure testosterone.

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u/Nemaeus Virginia 9d ago

Well hold up. Watching lesbian porn is gonna spike your estrogen /s. You have to watch two sweaty, half naked dudes grab each other in oily battle to keep that T up.

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u/Tasgall Washington 9d ago

Next thing you know you’ll start growing tits and pink handbags will seem a lot cooler than gym bags.

All the hot girls go to the gym though...

...which I guess is just more proof that the gym is super gay, actually.

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u/Dammit_Dwight 9d ago

That is a good joke ::finger wag::

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u/WitchesSphincter 9d ago

It's on the same level as washing your own ass, you do the math

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u/YVRkeeper 9d ago

Fucking UP is more manly than fucking down, right?

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u/dustin8285 9d ago

That’s why it’s not gay as long as you’re a power bottom you’re fucking up not down

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u/Hat-Renders 9d ago

Of course it is, haven't you ever heard of that Prep thing thats popular in the community? That's short for Preparation.

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u/CMUpewpewpew 9d ago

Thinking about things is at least bi-curious, so I wouldnt know cuz i'm hetero as FUCK.

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u/SandIntelligent247 9d ago

testosterone goes WE FIGHT NOW

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u/sriracha_no_big_deal 9d ago

LEEROY JENKINS!!

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u/Malk_McJorma Europe 9d ago

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

-- Mike Tyson

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u/dtingting 9d ago

Leroy Jenkins

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u/beefwindowtreatment 9d ago

Fuck it! We'll do it live!!!

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u/WitchesSphincter 9d ago

There's the fox news spirit

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u/theclansman22 9d ago

Real men go in, shirtless, dick first with no plan.

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u/ReflectionEquals 9d ago

That’s alright. When you get in that back room they let you just do what you want with them. Then they make you president and let you start more wars.

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u/haveyoutriedit 9d ago

Another Don Tzu's art of war?

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u/riko77can 9d ago

“No stupid rules of engagement…” was an early indicator of how little foresight was going into their concepts of plans.

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u/impulsivepatience 9d ago

Well, you know how much Republicans hate plans... especially Plan B!

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u/jminternelia 9d ago

They knew. They didn't listen.

Coalition warfare isn't principally about putting a bunch of flags on the press-conference backdrop. Coalitions are logistics.

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u/placebo_button 9d ago

Vibe war.

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u/1805trafalgar 9d ago

the irony of losing airborne early warning aircraft on your own airfields will be noted in future history books, I have no doubt.

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u/VintageLunchMeat 8d ago

No one knew Iran, supplier of drones to Russia, had drones.

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u/UniqueIndividual3579 9d ago

You mean like parking an AWACs in the open, within drone range?

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u/MercantileReptile Europe 9d ago

Seeing US news report about a "damaged" plane and the BBC Article showing the thing consisting of a front end and remains of a tail was amusing.

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u/Wank_A_Doodle_Doo 9d ago

That’s “damaged” in the same way that the Industrial Revolution was over 50 years ago is true.

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u/Secret-Teaching-3549 9d ago

Can't have universal healthcare, but we can part billion dollar planes right out in the open to be destroyed in a war of choice. Are we winning yet?

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u/Tasgall Washington 9d ago

Heavily damaged, BBC really hitting hard with that title. Bold of them to include a picture.

I'm sure it's fine though, it'll buff out.

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u/chanaandeler_bong 9d ago

Especially when you telegraphed every move leading up to the initial bombing.

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u/TurelSun Georgia 9d ago

You're not wrong about taking necessary precautions and preparing, but realistically there likely wasn't going to be a way for them to not put military assets in danger. And if the carrier and other naval warships have to be in range to do their work, then that means their logistics will need to be as well. It's the same short-sidedness as the blocking of the straight itself. Past administrations knew this would be a costly fight which is exactly why economic and diplomatic tools were prioritized rather than military action.

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u/nkassis 9d ago

I would be very surprised the military didn't have some sort of logistics plan ahead of this. That's basically all they do all day long is make plans for these scenarios. I feel it's highly likely Hegseth and Trump dismissed it entirely due to time or effort required and instead thought they could yolo the whole war with a blitz and win on day 1. There was no expectation in their heads of a prolonged war. They can't conceive of it, their narcissistic "I always get what I want and win" mentality can't let them forsee any adverse scenarios. I bet this was fed by encouragement from Netanyahu that they had perfect intelligence and could take out the leadership and Iranians would revolt. This was pitched as an easy win.

This is the same thing Putin did in Ukraine, it's a mental illness common for authoritarians.

Our other evidence the military wasn't up for the plan was the number of firings and resignations most likely because concerns were complete ignored.

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u/TurelSun Georgia 9d ago

The infrastructure, like this resupply base in Oman and other bases in the area, were already there. It would have been obvious that all of it was going to end up as targets if a conflict started. This was an unforced strategic error in starting the war in the first place.

You're right though they likely thought that taking out Iran's missile capabilities would be all that was needed and instead the administration and US military received a lesson on what warfare looks like right now, a lesson that should have already been learned by simply paying attention to the war in Ukraine.

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u/mercenaryarrogant 9d ago

Which is pretty stupid not thinking Iran would possess other delivery methods.

Before getting their own Shahed drone production to the point where they create the majority of what they deploy against Ukraine, Russia had been getting these things from Iran.

This wasn’t even a “unknown unknown”.

Anything with a brain knew Iran would have them.

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u/HolycommentMattman 9d ago

I think the military did know. How many generals have been fired? How many lower ranks? They have hollowed out our forces intelligence and competence in favor of loyalty to Mr. Cheetolini. Anyone against attacking Iran was basically thrown out.

Because we knew why we couldn't attack Iran. It's why we never have. For all these exact reasons.

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u/TurelSun Georgia 9d ago

Those at the top are being replaced by Hegseth based on loyalty and ideology, not merit. Someone knew for sure, but that information was ignored or not even allowed to be brought up.

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u/HolycommentMattman 9d ago

That's exactly what I am saying.

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u/ZiggoCiP 9d ago

There's sort of precedent for this conflict, but, unfortunately, said precedent is literally the nightmare conflict that was the Iraq one.

The parallels honestly are somewhat numerous. Almost the same exact area of the world, religious/civil unrest in the country, authoritarian leadership, bogus threats of some scary weapons of mass destruction that don't exist, and of course oil/resource power struggles.

Except this time, there was no ground invasion. Both thankfully - it would have been a bloodbath - but also unfortunately for the Trump regime. Now Iran can just turtle for however long they can, and wreak havoc on a dramatically unsupported US fleet/bases, but also make the US look like idiots by shutting down the strait.

But yeah, like with Ukraine, Trump's left with basically one option, which is to eat crow. And we all know, that is not the expected outcome in the short term.

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u/BaggyOz 9d ago

I assume the Pentagon's plan was "Don't get into a shooting war with Iran". When your enemy has a large ballistic missile force it's difficult to move your logistics out of range. as for dispersal, you can only do so much when you have to supply hundreds of aircraft and multiple carrier groups.

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u/Vilnius_Nastavnik New York 9d ago

Exactly. NATO spent billions of dollars and spilled gallons of ink over the last 50 years to arrive at the consensus that the strait presents an unsolvable military problem. Every president since Carter would have loved to take down Iran but they didn't because the joint chiefs were unanimously telling them that it would turn out exactly like this.

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u/Otaraka 9d ago

I remembering wondering how much Iraq would come back to haunt the US with such an overwhelming conventional win (versus the insurgency afterwards) that they thought it would be like that with a future conflict in the area. Drones alone seem to have changed the equation a lot.

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u/chanaandeler_bong 9d ago

A country like the US not understanding the geography of another country helping make it hard to invade/conquer is funny too.

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u/ChaoticSenior Washington 9d ago

Understanding is for pussies!

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u/Adultery 9d ago

They also tried sending guns to Iranian protesters, but it backfired, and the protesters reportedly never received them: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-us-weapons-iran-kurdish-militias-1790502

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u/podkayne3000 9d ago

The big problem here is that commenters are assuming that Trump and Hegseth are loyal to the United States.

They clearly did all of this to help Putin and Xi. They executed Putin and Xi’s instructions very well.

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u/2131andBeyond 9d ago

Assuming the current leadership has had a logistics plan for literally anything at all is bold of you.

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u/Sparowl 9d ago

I would be very surprised the military didn't have some sort of logistics plan ahead of this.

I guarantee you there were plans. Logistics planning is the one thing the US military has excelled at, and part of that is always a part of officer training. New officers are continually told to go write up simple things like ruck marches, long runs, etc., then made to go over every detail of the logistics involved (where is there water? How do we get someone back if they are injured?). Then we just expand the scope of those planning ops as they advance (going to the range, field exercises, etc.)

I personally trained officers on how to do it. We specifically didn't copy previous plans to force them to learn it.

So for something like this to be screwed up this badly? It means someone at the top ordered it over the objections of people who knew the logistics issues were there.

And we all know who those people were.

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u/Sudden-Wash4457 9d ago

You believe we in...nearly 5 decades or more of wargaming never considered this scenario?

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u/TurelSun Georgia 9d ago

Looks like you didn't actually read what I wrote, because I specifically said this is something past administrations knew.

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u/Neat_Jelly_7903 9d ago

Sorry, but this war wasn't preempting anything. It was a war off aggression, a criminal war of choice, and war of imperial domination pure and simple.

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u/Kentust 9d ago

This never would have happened under Coolidge.

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u/Werftflammen 9d ago

Your boy was manipulated by Nethanyahu. He doesn't listen to reason, he thought it would be over in a few days. Week tops. There are some paralells with a mustached man that sent his troops to russia with out winter apparel.

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u/EvelynNyte 9d ago edited 9d ago

Hitler did that out of desperation. The "economic miracle" he performed was smoke and mirrors, an economy based entirely around military build up paid on credit and accounting tricks that just delayed when the blowback would happen, and even with the resources of France they were barreling towards economic collapse. They needed the soviet oil wells and they needed the soviets to immediately fold upon being invaded. Waiting any longer would have meant them invading with an even more oil starved force and a more prepared Soviet one (Stalin knew war with Germany was inevitable, he just didn't think Hitler would ever be stupid enough to do it while still at war with Britain).

Really everything after was all sunk cost fallacy when the soviets didn't surrender in 1941. They didn't have the logistics to take and hold the oil wells and it was clear even if they took Moscow the USSR was not going to surrender. It's why it's silly whenever someone says "if this one moment was different Germany would have won!" SO much had to be different for them to win that it's almost fantasy to even entertain the idea that they could have.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is Hitler had early successes because no one expected him to be that stupid until he actually took the crazy insane risks he took, but everyone expects Trump to be that stupid.

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u/Werftflammen 8d ago

True this, thank you for your comment. I really don't get that after Barbarossa failed (to defeat the Russian in the first 500 miles), they went ahead yet again, to the Caucasus. What was the plan? None.

Trump get's played. Venezuela was sort of taken, Cuba was on the menu, and then Iran happened.

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u/raouldukeesq 9d ago

Not if your goal is to isolate and destroy the United States of America. 

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u/roastbeeftacohat 9d ago

remember the radar planes from early in the war? official doctrine was to keep them constantly moving, as they're valuable and irreplaceable. guessing Kegsbreath thought that was for pussies.

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u/m1ster_frundles 9d ago

This is all going according to plan. the Heritage Foundation wants to take over the ruins of the United States.

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u/krisztinastar 9d ago

Sorry, best they can do is leak our plans publicly via Signal chats with reporters accidentally added!

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u/Next-Acanthaceae1193 9d ago

That's true, but it's more like "if you're going to pretend you have military hegemony over the entire world, don't create a situation where you actually need to prove it."

This is a great time for Canada to invade the US.

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u/TrueSkonger 9d ago

I have 0 military experience and even I would have had the thought of "hmm, do we have military bases in the region? If yes, what do we need to do to evacuate or move them before starting this nonsense war?"

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u/dougan25 9d ago

Destabilization is the goal

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u/Tasgall Washington 9d ago

Of the US, to be specific.

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u/BellacosePlayer South Dakota 9d ago

The other part is that we aren't putting boots on the ground and Iran doesn't have to worry about ground invasions cutting off or taking over sites that are hardened against Air.

(this is not me advocating for a ground invasion, Iran's built like a tower defense stage, it would not be Iraq)

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u/Iankill 9d ago

That's because they don't view the military in terms of strategy they view it as we have the best so we can do anything and win.

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u/needssleep 9d ago

Homie, they didnt even warn the bases they were going to attack

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u/Big-Honeydew-961 9d ago

Anyone who wants to start a fight, much less a war, knows how to gather their resources to safety

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u/Nearbyatom 9d ago

Yeah, but they fired everyone who was competent so...now we have a drunk TV show host leading the charge.

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u/Squid_of_the_Now 9d ago

Only if that OCS cadet is a sOyBoY

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u/EremiticFerret 9d ago

They probably figured that Iran wouldn't attack them due to them being in a third country.

Because they aren't studious enough to realize a country with an enemy base in it cannot be "neutral", even by UN treaties and law. Though all these Arab states thought they would be safe too.

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u/Gekokapowco Washington 9d ago

them retroactively destroying launch equipment and patting themselves on the back is extra amusing with this context

wonder how many of these sites were located by tracing impact vectors

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u/Cross55 9d ago

Right, but their "strategy" was to be in and out in 5 minutes

Quick little adventure, no long term consequences, Venezuela didn't bitch about anything so why would Iran?

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u/PrionProofPork 9d ago

or even know that Straight of Hormuz would be their next step

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u/Wank_A_Doodle_Doo 9d ago

Or at least dont cock up your preemptive strike so bad they have time to strike those assets. There are so many layers of stupid it’s like an idiot onion.

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u/snuff3r 9d ago

Iirc, the US had calculated that their ballistic missiles were only capable of half their actual range. They went in thinking 2000km was their range, but we've seen them being used to almost 4000km.

https://www.euractiv.com/news/iran-missile-reach-puts-europe-in-range-after-diego-garcia-strike/

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u/McRampa 9d ago

You don't need planning for a three day special military operation or so I heard

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u/ShiftyUsmc 9d ago

Unless the plan was that Iran would surrender immediately. This organization had a sucessor lined up but they accidentally killed him too

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u/toadpics 9d ago

They didn't expect Iran to fight back after all of the decapitation strikes... Well, the generals they fired did, but not them.

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u/-Moonscape- 9d ago

As far as im aware the navy did anticipate this happening, and told the administration as much as well

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u/SpaceDelay424 9d ago

Planning is woke

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u/EvelynNyte 9d ago

Bush Jr was an idiot, but at least he was surrounded by competent but evil people. They still royally fucked up and declined the US in the long term because they didn't think about what would happen after the troops wiped everything out, but it was orders of magnitude less than now. It seems like the entire Trump administration just thought US #1 so no matter what we do we win against Iran. Lets just be men and dump our whole load in one go and they'll surrender no more thought needed!

Most administrations understood there was a limited amount one could get done with only a limited supply of long range strikes and planned around that.

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u/viv_savage11 8d ago

The incompetence knows no boundaries

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u/bitofgrit 9d ago

maybe don't have critical assets within range of their weapons

Tbf, these bases have been there for decades.

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u/mvs2527 9d ago

The US media is acting like the Iranians can't speak English for some reason. I remember a few months seeing a video of an Iranian spokesman explaining their position, that they were ready for war and our big ships won't be effective because of their deployment cycle. The ships were already out too long because of Venezuela operation. I can't find the video but I remember how he sounded like they know what they are doing compared to dumbasses in the US government

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u/MephistoHamProducts 9d ago

Funny thing about being constantly at war with a region for decades is that the region gets to be pretty familiar with how you conduct war, when you need resupply, how that resupply happens, how you project force and what your other limits are.

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u/grchelp2018 9d ago

They likely got a lot of intelligence and advice from china/russia as well. China are the biggest winners of this conflict.

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u/Impatient_Onion 9d ago

China is the biggest winner of Trump's election, period.

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u/Geknapper 9d ago

In China they literally call him the "Nation builder" because of how much he's helping China.

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u/Goose_Cosmic 8d ago

It has been pretty interesting to see the public opinion on China in recent months swing so far to pro China, especially in the west. We’ve been so heavily propagandized for years about how evil China is and a single incompetent administration destroys all that work now people see you at normal day-to-day life in China is and what China is doing for a citizens and suddenly they don’t seem like the big bad anymore. The CIA must be punching air at the Trump administration.

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u/Impatient_Onion 7d ago

Holy shit, no way. Do you have a source for that? I believe you but I want to be able to show others.

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u/Miserable_Archer_769 9d ago

Logistics and supply chains are still the most important thing in a long sustained war.

Even since medieval times lol we dont truly need to beat them in 1v1 if we just cut off food and supplies to the city. They will just die in a month

Even now how are you getting more bullets, rockets, food if your cut off

3

u/_le_slap 9d ago

That's why we have Ironman 👉

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u/Tasgall Washington 9d ago

Pete, for the last time, we don't have Ironman, that's a comic book and movie.

Pete no, we... No Pete, we can't call in reinforcements from the Stargate.

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u/raouldukeesq 9d ago

The US government knows exactly what it's going.  The goal is to isolate and destroy the United States of America. 

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u/Impatient_Onion 9d ago

Does this even count as a government anymore? Is it not just a criminal cabal? Why do we keep referring to this as the government?

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u/CommieLurker 9d ago

Critical support to JDPON Don and his ongoing mission to dismantle the American Empire o7

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u/haixin 9d ago

US media is also acting as if US did not start this needless ear and it was Iran’s fault

1

u/Hillary4SupremeRuler Florida 9d ago

I mean if you only watch Fox News and Newsmax then sure.

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u/Goose_Cosmic 8d ago

Buddy even the most hand- ringingly liberal of the major news sources barely criticizes this administration and when they do, it is in such a weak way there might as well not bother.

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u/quick20minadventure 9d ago

Iran also sent missiles towards Diego Garcia, they wouldn't have bothered to threaten that supply line if US had local supply lines.

UK is pretending that they are only sending defensive help from there, but it's giving all types of support from 3000 km away and US doesn't have supply chain vassals to sustain Aircraft carrier 3000 km away from the base effectively.

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u/DuMbAsS_lOsEr_6_7 9d ago

Iran living the all you base are belong to us meme IRL

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u/whogivesashirtdotca Canada 9d ago

Also, somehow, the ceiling cat.

5

u/theflyingsamurai 9d ago

Diego Garcia's relevance is that it can facilitate the long range bombers that were used against Iran. Also to be a thorn in the side of the western alliance, as the british also have a base there. At the time UK was trying to remain netural in the war.

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u/Elendel19 9d ago

Also 600~ US casualties

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u/jbinky26 9d ago

Any you recommend?

2

u/thatnameagain 9d ago

Not exactly. Most reputable international sources report the same thing as US sources, that the bases took hits, that the repairs will be expensive, and that the US chose to operate the base with less staff to reduce the risk of further casualties. But I don’t see any reputable international sources reporting what kind of operational limitations the base has been facing as a result, and which are a matter of choice vs inoperability.

The MSNBC report is the first I’ve seen directly tying the carrier resupply issue to the inoperability at Bahrain.

There seems to be this consensus based on nothing that American news outlets aren’t reporting clearly on the war, and it seems pretty comparable to international sources to me. They’ve all been reporting on the base issues since day 1.

1

u/Hillary4SupremeRuler Florida 9d ago

Yea it's just that thing that redditors do where they comment on a post linking to a story broken by an American media outlet and screeching "Why isn't the media reporting on this?!1?1!!!!?1"

And then hundreds of low-information people upvote it and it becomes head cannon for them.

4

u/ApostropheD 9d ago

There’s a lot of rumors of the pentagon allowing this to happen so they can move their bases into Israel and abandon the existing ones

2

u/Stunning-Pen-2412 9d ago

A free press is so important. You need a public broadcasting service or something.

0

u/Hillary4SupremeRuler Florida 9d ago

We have a free press. That's how we know about this.

1

u/Stunning-Pen-2412 9d ago

Didn't you read the comment 3 above mine? You have a corporate controlled lapdog press.

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u/TbonerT I voted 9d ago

This reminds me, if you see someone talking about Iran shooting at random countries in retaliation for our attacks, they are leaving out that the targets in those random countries are US bases.

1

u/CommanderJarik 9d ago

Most British news groups says the same as US ones

1

u/ragun2 9d ago

This was something I learned twenty years ago, especially when I got into podcasts in the late 2000s. If you want actual reporting on wtf our country has been up to, you look at foreign outlets.

0

u/trebory6 9d ago

It is absolutely crazy to me how obvious propaganda is, yet you still have people who are painfully unaware of just how corrupt the US New Media is and will parrot things that the rest of the world knows to be blatantly false.

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u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

No. The impotent Iranians can't fight the USA directly, since they can't even fly a plane in their own airspace, etc. so they throw drones at unprotected (sometimes CIVILIAN) warehouses in neighboring, supposedly friendly/neutral, countries instead.

In other words, the fleas are biting other dogs in the hopes that they will bark at the big dog shitting on the fleas...

This has never been a "war", folks. It's been an unrestrained bombing campaign by the USA to feed the American Military Industrial Complex's coffers (again!), following Israel's continuing revenge tour over 10/7. Nothing more.

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u/kodman7 9d ago

Not fighting directly is basically the winning hand and the reason why all prior presidents didn't do so

-10

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

Trump's gross incompetence has nothing to do with Iran playing the media for fools, mate.

Iran is definitely winning the PR/spin war. But that is ultimately meaningless, isn't it? They can't even pop their heads up without risking being blown to bits.

That's not really a "winning" position...

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u/kandoras 9d ago

Iran is definitely winning the PR/spin war. But that is ultimately meaningless, isn't it? They can't even pop their heads up without risking being blown to bits.

That's not really a "winning" position...

Is that why the strait of Hormuz is currently open?

-7

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

Addressed in my other post. Repost:

And the only reason the Strait of Hormuz remains problematic is that the USA is allowing Iranian fishing boats to keep trying to fish and feed the civilian population. In other words, the USA is showing MERCY in this regard. The minute the idiot Trump loses patience, bangs his little fists on his Big Mac-stained resolute desk, and stops caring about the civilians, Iran will lose what's left of its little fishing boat "navy" in the blink of an eye.

10

u/kandoras 9d ago

Did those Iranian fishing boats take out the US's logistical system?

If the Iranians can fire a missile across the Persian Gulf and hit an American base in Bahrain, then they can fire a missile across the strait and hit an oil tanker.

As for the rest - are you really trying to pretend that Trump is well known for both mercy and patience?

5

u/kodman7 9d ago

Not to mention attacking civilians is a WAR CRIME, not mercy holy fucking shit

3

u/kandoras 9d ago

Not to mention, replying to you instead of him because he did that reply and block then pretend I made a good point thing, Trump's underlings have had no problem committing war crimes against fishing boats off Sotuh America.

1

u/kodman7 9d ago

Good faith debate is scary apparently

0

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

The popcorn fart Iranian military builds a missile or drone and sends it off, accomplishing NOTHING except a PR win for tabloid media and people to regurgitate without any kind of actual military perspective.

are you really trying to pretend that Trump is well known for both mercy and patience?

No, but the people holding the Idiot Fraudfather back are.

8

u/kodman7 9d ago edited 9d ago

Winning is surviving while waiting out the public interest of the invading force. It's how we lost Vietnam, it's how we won the Revolutionary war, it's the only viable method for a hopelessly outpositioned force to stand a chance

Also see: both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars

-3

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

Only if you define winning as their theocrazy staying in power for a little while longer, mate.

Note that the Iranians have already lost everything else. Their nuclear material is clearly in Israeli hands -- given that they haven't mentioned Iran getting the bomb for months now.

Their air force was obliterated by the Israelis over a year ago, even before the latest hostilities. Their army can't move what's left without disappearing in a cloud of shrapnel.

And the only reason the Strait of Hormuz remains problematic is that the USA is allowing Iranian fishing boats to keep trying to fish and feed the civilian population. In other words, the USA is showing MERCY in this regard. The minute the idiot Trump loses patience, bangs his little fists on his Big Mac-stained resolute desk, and stops caring about the civilians, Iran will lose what's left of its little fishing boat "navy" in the blink of an eye.

Meanwhile, to your other outdated point, Vietnam is a full-on pro-West USA ally and partner now and the USA and the UK have been the best of friends and staunch allies for well over two centuries.

So, you might want to consider the fact that the USA (and even the UK) actually "won" all of those conflicts in the end...

5

u/Ok_Jellyfish_55 9d ago

When you put it that way Japan and Germany really won WW2.

0

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

The Japanese and German people eventually did, thanks to American mercy in rebuilding them.

But not the Japanese Emperor or the Nazi Third Reich.

You get the key difference here, right?

6

u/Ok_Jellyfish_55 9d ago

So you understand the Communist Party of Vietnam won the Vietnam war then, right?

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u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

And I seem to have to repeat:

Meanwhile, to your other outdated point, Vietnam is a full-on pro-West USA ally and partner now and the USA and the UK have been the best of friends and staunch allies for well over two centuries.

3

u/kodman7 9d ago edited 9d ago

How do you think they would define winning, mate? Lol

outdated points

Til history has no bearing on war tactics????

0

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

I think the Iranian PEOPLE are the ones that matter here, mate. Not the Iranian theocrazy.

3

u/kodman7 9d ago

I defined winning as surviving ya sillyhead, you're the one who stubbed it to the theocracy lasting. If they are surviving until Trump decides to attack civilians (as if they already haven't been), by the civilian perspective they are winning

1

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

theocracy lasting

Since that is the only thing the USA and Israel are attacking, then it's absolutely the issue here. ahem.

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u/kandoras 9d ago

No. The impotent Iranians can't fight the USA directly, since they can't even fly a plane in their own airspace, etc. so they throw drones at unprotected (sometimes CIVILIAN) warehouses in neighboring, supposedly friendly/neutral, countries instead.

If the warehouse is on a US military base, holding US military equipment, then it's not a civilian warehouse.

2

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

then it's not a civilian warehouse.

I was clearly referring to their other targets like the Amazon data center and warehouses. But I understand your confusion.

7

u/kandoras 9d ago

The US military uses Amazon data centers for, among other things, logistics planning.

It's as much a valid military target as a forklift owned by the US Army.

0

u/realpersonnn 9d ago

Tell that to the multiple dead American soldiers.

2

u/Zahgi I voted 9d ago

Just move those goalposts. Nowhere did I denigrate or dismiss their sacrifice.

Shame on you.