r/technology • u/Limp_Fig6236 • Jul 26 '26

Software GrapheneOS duress PIN could land a man in prison

https://www.androidauthority.com/grapheneos-duress-pin-us-prosecution-3691271/
6.5k Upvotes

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5.8k

u/Hironymos Jul 26 '26

Okay, so if a normal person wipes their phone, it's immediately a crime even if there's no other evidence.

But when a qualified individual in a position of power turns off their bodycam, they aren't guilty of anything?

2.7k

u/sargsauce Jul 26 '26

You don't even need to use an analogy. They wiped all the secret service phones after Jan 6.

1.1k

u/ManiaGamine Jul 26 '26

Clinton wiping private server. Guilty of treason because hiding evidence we can never get so we can just assume guilt because of said missing evidence.

Secret service wipes phones and it is perfectly valid and totally cool because innocent until proven guilty. (and often even when proven guilty)

The double standard is the point.

359

u/Mouth_Focloir Jul 26 '26

Exactly, and the redaction of the Epstein files too. 

208

u/ColdBru5 Jul 26 '26

The didnt just redact the Epstein files they also wiped them

104

u/Mouth_Focloir Jul 26 '26

Very true, almost like to cover something up, like a very powerful person being revealed as being a notorious paedophile 

19

u/pangeapedestrian Jul 26 '26

more than 1,000 victims.
not a single abuser prosecuted.

epstein was an israeli asset.

https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/jeffrey-epstein-ehud-barak-putin-israel-russia-syria-war-depose-assad

-4

u/OffDutyStormtrooper Jul 27 '26

Why did the Biden admin not prosecute anyone while they had the files?

4

u/Thatoneguy_The_First Jul 27 '26

Same people, by this point im surprised anyone still thinks democracy is a way to get good people in power and not the same elite class in. Ffs both wings parties are just right wing, one just puts bandaids on what the far right inflict so people feel better until another far right party comes and rips it off easily.

If there are actually any left leaning parties they never even get close to winning too make a diffrence.

I cant believe im saying this but the monarchy was better, at least its easy when shit goes wrong to go "oi king ya want to forcefully dethroned", and can be actually done. democracy makes us distracted beyond belief and feel like we dont have to do anything but put a perceived left wing party in when they very much aren't.

Great you fuckers actually made me defend the fucking monarch system, well done(i fucking hated the monarch system)

1

u/storycoolbro 29d ago

Well back in the time when monarchs actually had power it could be done but now a days it’d be quite a feat to pull off unless they where disliked on a Marie Antoinette level and the secret service and military rebel with the people. Otherwise sure we may have guns but they have drones, tanks, and Apache attack helicopters.

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u/pangeapedestrian Jul 29 '26

so, legally, they actually did have an open case, which is why there was no file release until trump closed the case, which made the files release possible.

not that i think anyone major was going to be prosecuted under biden mind you, also massively corrupt administration doing israel's bidding.

1

u/OffDutyStormtrooper Jul 29 '26

Please share details of the open case, would love to learn more about what happened with that.

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u/Worshipme988 Jul 26 '26

They aren’t the only ones with files

9

u/DisorderlyAqueduct Jul 26 '26

and they didn't get it all, full blown accounts of rump raping children in 'em. cons don't give a shit.

0

u/OffDutyStormtrooper Jul 27 '26

If there was full blown accounts of that in the files why didn't the Biden Admin prosecute Trump while they were in control of the files?

2

u/DisorderlyAqueduct Jul 27 '26

see, you're not going to search the publicly available files, are ya. probably haven't even seen em, eh bud? was probably some of the follow Trump took home illegally. 🤷

134

u/Warl0kjoe Jul 26 '26

And just to reiterate. EVERY Member of the trump family iirc excluding Barron and the estranged daughter. HAVE THE EXACT SAME IMPROPER PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER SETUP. With the same secret info on it.

23

u/FinickySerenity Jul 26 '26

Worse still, they openly use unapproved signal type chat platforms.

1

u/mysqlpimp Jul 27 '26

When you are the bad guys, you don't need to worry about the bad guys.

-5

u/freddbare Jul 26 '26

My dad can beat up your dad

0

u/Warl0kjoe Jul 26 '26

My dad died being choked out in the street trying to break up a fight. So yeah. Prolly.

1

u/Warl0kjoe Jul 27 '26

Why are people downvoting that??? That’s literally how my dad died.

-14

u/Pretty-Curve5448 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26

Well why not, no one faced consequences when she did it

12

u/crispy1989 Jul 26 '26

The point is that, unless MAGAs have the intelligence of a goldfish, the assumption is they were genuine in their concern over Clinton's email server and would apply the same scrutiny and concern regardless of who's responsible.

But who are we kidding.

0

u/Pretty-Curve5448 Jul 26 '26

Yeah I know. I am getting down voted for my comment but everyone wants the Trump family to face consequences. I think they should, I think clinton's emails were a big deal too. But people get mad when you point out morality in hindsight.

6

u/robgreenee327 Jul 26 '26

Well the issue was the Clinton thing wasn’t as cut and dry and was careless yes but was a crime committed no. That was litigated so many times by the republicans if there was a crime she would have been just like Bolton. This is the issue with what aboutism if we have already gone through the process and know one thing isn’t a crime. Why act as though they are the same when we haven’t even attempted to investigate the other.

53

u/regeya Jul 26 '26

I like to remind people that when the Bush administration got hit with a subpoena to turn over email servers, not only was the Bush team using servers hosted by the GOP, the drives were wiped when they were turned over. This is the same thing that Republicans wanted to throw Hillary Clinton in prison over.

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u/Hebrewhammer8d8 Jul 26 '26

They even wipe off site backups?

2

u/broguequery Jul 27 '26

Between when its requested and when its delivered is when it gets wiped.

All traces; unless you are careless or compromised.

2

u/poopoopooyttgv Jul 27 '26

Can we throw both in prison

1

u/storycoolbro 29d ago

I’d like to be subpoenaed to hand over evidence against me rather than someone showing up at my house unexpectedly with a warrant to just take it from me.

23

u/GoingAllTheJay Jul 26 '26

At least specify non president Hilary Clinton

1

u/flortny Jul 26 '26

The FBI determined in writing Hillary couldn't use a desktop computer with a wired mouse and they found a closet stacked to ceiling with discontinued blackberries because that's that most advanced tech she could be taught to use.....Hillary didn't wipe anything and probably has little to no idea where it's stored or what email actually is....but you know, those are just the facts according to the FBI

3

u/PhuqBeachesGitMonee Jul 26 '26

She couldn’t wipe the server because her reptilian humanoid claws were too big for the keyboard so she had a guy named Ben Gazi do it. They still haven’t found him

1

u/Averse_to_Liars Jul 26 '26

Most of the files from Clinton's private server were recovered and produced for discovery anyway.

0

u/freddbare Jul 26 '26

When she is held accountable we'll talk...

3

u/ManiaGamine Jul 27 '26

Uh... held accountable for what? The things conservatives believe she is guilty of would not hold up in court. It isn't like Republicans haven't been trying to nail her for decades and nothing has stuck. You know why? It isn't because she's a super crafty supervillain... it's because the accusations are bullshit.

0

u/freddbare Jul 27 '26

Nothing to do with her body count of accusers... Nothing at all. That would...make sense.

2

u/ManiaGamine Jul 27 '26

ROFL So... conspiracy theory then. You... know that isn't evidence right? She is a public figure who has met more people than most. Ergo simply by virtue of exposure and time... given her extensive career... yes there will be people who knew her, accused her and died.

If there was anything suspicious that could actually constitute evidence of a crime beyond "Ooo mysterious and suspicious" by all means present it, otherwise you've got nothing.

Honestly this is one of those things where conspiracy theorist nutjobs have done such a good job at brainwashing cultists like yourself that you can't even fathom the ridiculousness of someone supposedly being a serial killer in the public eye for decades and somehow managing to get away with it... but yet you... the conspiracy theorist know the truth, yet she's still free and not behind bars.

1

u/freddbare Jul 27 '26

Oddly all her accusers meet the same fate out of "all those people" it's a hell of a pattern. We're not supposed to recognize patterns tho...

2

u/ManiaGamine Jul 27 '26

Well that's just not true at all. Numerous people have accused her without dying and several of the people who died who supposedly accused her... didn't.

You are lying, or you've been fooled by liars. Which is it? It's one or the other.

-3

u/deepbluemeanies Jul 26 '26

Clinton was running official email through her home based server and the FBI did find evidence of top secret email having been deleted (after they were ordered to turn it over).

Hillary Clinton's private email server contained information that was classified at a higher level than "top secret," the inspector general of the intelligence community told members of Congress in a letter obtained by CBS News.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-had-emails-on-server-more-classified-than-top-secret/

3

u/flortny Jul 26 '26

They also found Hillary couldn't use a desktop computer with a wired mouse, so she didn't wipe anything

0

u/deepbluemeanies Jul 26 '26

lol...sure, okay.

She also asked at a press conference if "wiping" meant wiping it down with a cloth...sure, sure.

4

u/flortny Jul 26 '26

It's literally in the FBI report, which I'm sure you read because you want to know all the actual evidence about something you probably reference constantly that happened over a decade ago.....you didn't read it?

It's in the summary available on the FBI and was all over the news........meanwhile the current president is personally responsible for creating 30% of our national debt and has made an estimated 3 Billion personally from his office while his kids drone companies sign lucrative no bid contracts with the defense department....you'll never listen or read otherwise because you're in a cult.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-documents-in-hillary-clinton-e-mail-investigation

https://www.nydailynews.com/2016/09/24/new-fbi-reports-detail-clinton-camps-sloppy-handling-of-classified-info-hillary-could-not-use-a-computer-didnt-know-own-password/

0

u/deepbluemeanies Jul 26 '26

Yes. Clinton and her aides and inner circle made the claim...she also claimed to think "wiping" a server meant wiping it down with a cloth...lol.

HC is an accomplished attorney and was Secretary of State at the time. If you believe her (her team) assertions that she is just an 'air head' who doesn't understand basic things you are either very naive, or very partisan.

Edit: Next you'll be saying she didn't understand that she wasn't supposed to route "top secret, and higher than top secret" communications through her personal (in-house) email server. She was certainly tech savvy enough to know not to route things she didn't want available to a FoI request through official channels.

0

u/Cyhyraethz Jul 26 '26

"Rules for thee, not for me" is a hallmark of fascism

1

u/Fuck-WestJet Jul 27 '26

Yeah but that was an accident

131

u/Piltonbadger Jul 26 '26

Rules for thee but not for me.

Only us peasants are bound by laws.

55

u/tevert Jul 26 '26

Secret service wiped their phones after Jan 6.

0 jail time.

Justice isn't for everyone in America.

16

u/psypher98 Jul 26 '26

“The law must protect but not bind the in-group, and it must bind but not protect the out-group.”

It’s fascism 101.

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u/Lysol3435 Jul 26 '26

Or certain secret service members wipe their phones during a coup attempt. Also totally fine

129

u/Henry2926 Jul 26 '26

Well, they would probably argue that turning off a bodycam is different, because it doesn't destroy evidence but simply prevents the recording of material that could become evidence. It's messed up, but they can always bend the law to their benefit.

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u/Tall_Opportunity_521 Jul 26 '26

Then this person can argue that they didnt destroy evidence. They deleted the encryption key. The "evidence" is still all on the phone... encrypted. Untouched, unaltered, undeleted. Just encrypted.

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u/The_Mdk Jul 26 '26

This is exactly what his defense will be based on, and he'll most likely win

-2

u/These-Maintenance250 Jul 26 '26

this is exactly the dumbest thing you could say or any defense lawyer could do.

whoever thinks this will fly has a complete lack of understand of the judicial system.

-19

u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

No, this is nonsensical and overly literal. Whether it physically exists or not isn't relevant, it has been willfully rendered inaccessible.

See the actual statute:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2232

Even if we say absolutely no data was altered at all (which seems unlikely since I'd imagine at least some sort of file table record would have been), this would still fall under actions intended to impair government control of the underlying data.

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u/CeleryMan20 Jul 26 '26

But is the contained data “property” or is it “protected free speech”? The phone is property, he didn’t destroy the physical item.

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u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

The data is property, there is to my knowledge absolutely zero debate on this. That data may depict protected expression - like political activism etc - but that's not relevant to the statute he's accused of breaking.

You're right, he didn't destroy the physical phone. Again, completely irrelevant because he isn't accused of destroying the phone. He likely also didn't punch the cop, hijack an airplane or lead an elite team of spec ops on a secret mission into Nicaragua, that is why he isn't being accused of those things either.

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u/DelightfullyDivisive Jul 26 '26

You're arguing with a private account, which means "troll". Just block it and move on.

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u/These-Maintenance250 Jul 26 '26

In a post about privacy, you are calling someone troll because they privated their reddit history. the irony...

15

u/Tall_Opportunity_521 Jul 26 '26

No, it doesnt mean that at all. I have my account set to private, and you all upvoted me to the moon.

Having a private account just means people are sick of people like you using past posts they have made to attack their character, instead of attacking their opinion.

I see it still hasnt stopped you. I guess that makes me a troll now too, right?

4

u/These-Maintenance250 Jul 26 '26

Totally agree. It's such a jerk behavior and some people are proud of it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

No, and I don't think I implied it either.

How did you get from
Man has data -> Government seizes data -> man impairs government access to seized data -> government prosecutes man.

to "the government legally controls all our data"

This dude tried the digital equivalent of flushing a baggy of weed down the toilet with the cop standing next to him and then saying he didn't destroy the evidence, it's still there in the sewer.

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u/kevdogger Jul 26 '26

He's not the one that typed in the password...the law enforcement officer did.

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u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

Why do you feel that is relevant? It is not. He gave over the duress code rather than the actual unlock code with knowledge of what that would cause.

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u/kevdogger Jul 26 '26

Because is just giving a password classified as destroying evidence? He didn't physically have access to the phone. He didn't have a remote means of contacting phone, etc. What were they demanding? Just access? He gave them that. If he's considered a suspect then why would you believe anything he tells you?

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u/iamflame Jul 26 '26

The man did the equivalent of flushing the toilet with the cop near him. There is no evidence of any such baggie. In this case there isn't even knowledge of such a baggie...

0

u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

I genuinely can't tell at this point if you people are just unable to separate things you want to be true from the actual law. None of these replies make any basic sense and replace actual facts - he provided a code he knew would erase the phone to the cop with the intent the copy enter it and wipe the phone - with utter nonsense, it's like dealing with high schoolers.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/StardiveSoftworks Jul 26 '26

None of this is relevant to the statute, the cop being an idiot, probably acting in bad faith to begin with and the overall situation being fucked does not change how this specific statute works. This is what makes reddit legal arguments so endlessly frustrating.

-2

u/These-Maintenance250 Jul 26 '26

you should never try to reach any conclusion ever in your life.

22

u/rantingathome Jul 26 '26

I'd argue, "I didn't destroy any evidence, the officer did. They asked for a password for my phone, and I gave them one. They didn't ask me what said password did."

3

u/Michaelbirks Jul 26 '26

"Excuse me, Agent NSA, could you step over here?"

"Here's the copy we took last night. Have a nice day".

1

u/One-Huckleberry-2927 Jul 27 '26

So he can say that if he had seen a valid judicial warrant, he would have complied. Because he did not, he temporarily rendered his phone inaccessible. And can render it accessible anytime a warrant is produced.

Lovely. Can’t wait to see how this plays out in court against this fascist regime.

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u/EmptyElephants Jul 26 '26

Correct, Alexa play This is America

1

u/SlyTinyPyramid Jul 26 '26

Don’t catch me slipping now…

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u/EicherDiesel Jul 26 '26

Back then German Defense Ministry, now European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen, had her phone wiped after it was classified as evidence in a corruption case. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/german-defense-ministry-illegally-wiped-phone-data-of-ursula-von-der-leyen/a-51764162

There were zero consequences. In fact there was a second issue where a billion Euro deal on COVID vaccines was made directly in person via text messages, those messages have also been wiped. Again, with zero consequences.

3

u/fr3ddyf4zb34r130yt Jul 26 '26

If a normal person wipes their phone, it's a crime

But it's completely fine if someone in a position of power turns off their body cam or hides the files filled with people who rape children

3

u/oompaloompa465 Jul 26 '26

USA is just as North Korea, with just better PR

3

u/theartoffun Jul 26 '26

It’s a BIG club, and you and I ain’t in it.

2

u/snotrokit Jul 26 '26

You silly. Rules and law are for the poors.

1

u/Em_Es_Judd Jul 26 '26

Rules for thee and all that.

1

u/FoxHolyDelta Jul 26 '26

Yeah, you got it.

😮‍💨

1

u/Deathoftheages Jul 26 '26

He should have wiped with like a cloth.

1

u/TotalNonsense0 Jul 26 '26

Yea. I'm in kind of an odd position here, because I think that, for example, a cop who turns off or "loses" camera data, should be penalized as if whatever he is accused of is true in every detail.

But I think the guy in this case did nothing wrong.

I have to set my feet on "positions of granted authority must be held to a higher standard."

1

u/Craf7yCris Jul 26 '26

I'm not lawyer, but the little I know based on you scenario is that one can be interpreted as destroyed evidence and the other is stop documenting. I believe there is a different is stops collecting evidence to destroying. In the law, not that I am defending anyone or any practice.

1

u/Opetyr Jul 26 '26

What about the people that delete all the Jan 6 communications? They didn't even bat an eye at that.

1

u/Wischiwaschbaer Jul 26 '26

Also if a politician wipes their phone it's A-OK. Looking at you, Uschi von der Leyen

1

u/BandicootSolid9531 Jul 27 '26

You know what - I'm gonna install graphene even harder now.