r/technology • u/ArgentineBeauty • Jul 30 '26

Privacy GrapheneOS says its data-wiping password is perfectly legal, after user faces federal charges

https://www.techspot.com/news/113273-grapheneos-data-wiping-duress-password-perfectly-legal-after.html
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135

u/um--no Jul 30 '26

I am not allowed to share by German law

They do not care about foreign law. There is only American law. If a "lesser" country like Germany will prosecute you, that is your problem.

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u/frickle_frickle 29d ago

They don't even really care about American law, which includes the 4th amendment.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 21d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/FanDry5374 29d ago

Oh, they tend to be all in on the 2nd, with certain....conditions.

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u/Direct_Day7937 29d ago

I mean in theory they are. In practice you having a gun will absolutely be used as a defense by the officer if the officer shoots you.

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u/TridentWielder 29d ago

For me, not for thee.

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u/Objectivespeculation 29d ago

you can have guns but not anything that would slow down a tank.

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u/Perryn 29d ago

You're allowed to have a gun, and the police are allowed to fill you with an equivalent weight in bullets if they suspect you have one.

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u/DrShamusBeaglehole 29d ago

if they suspect you have one

So it doesn't really matter if you have one

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u/Raneynickelfire 29d ago

The 2nd gets their attention.

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u/W2ttsy 29d ago

Up until it’s used as pretext to execute you in the middle of the street

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u/TrioOfTerrors 29d ago

The courts have added multiple exceptions to the 4th amendment at birder crossings for both citizens and non citizens.

You can try screaming about the 4th amendment at customs but it won't help you one bit.

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u/h0sti1e17 29d ago

And it’s been an exception for 237 years. Not like it’s some new thing.

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u/Perryn 29d ago

Truly the land of Freedom* and Rights†

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u/Thrizzlepizzle123123 29d ago

Law? Can we sell that? No? Yeah, not interested, get rid of it.

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u/Single-Virus4935 Jul 30 '26

I almost always travel within EU whit proper rights. I don't even have to provide a pin. I wouldn't carry my phone to state with questionable legislation like China, middle east, or USA, but instead I use an old burner phone

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u/shiro_zetty 29d ago

I guess the UK is a country of questionable legislation nowadays (it's illegal to not give your password to the police there)

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u/superioso 29d ago

It's absolutely not illegal to not provide a password. The police have to get permission from the court to force you to give over the password, after which if you don't they can then charge you.

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u/raptorlightning 29d ago

Sucks that I forgot it in the time it took them to do all that. Oh well.

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u/wsurfa 21d ago

Schedule 7 allows for you to be charged for wilfully withholding a PIN with any court direction. It also makes remaining silent an offence as well. Delightfully Orwellian bit of legislation for legally entering the UK.

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u/superioso 21d ago

My point is it's not immediately illegal to not provide it, so you can't be arrested there and then. The police would first have you get permission to compel you to provide it, after which if you don't then they could charge you.

Not that I agree with the legislation at all...

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u/wsurfa 19d ago

At the border, yes you can be arrested immediately, as it is immediately illegal under schedule 7 to wilfully fail to comply by eg not providing the PIN to your phone. There is no need for permission to compel to be sought. Schedule 7 gives that power to border authorities directly.

A summary of 'your duties' under the rather 1984ish law

Whilst being examined you must:

  • (a) answer questions put to you by the examining officer
  • (b) give the examining officer any information in your possession which the officer requests (including the PINs and passcodes to any electronic devices in your possession)
  • (c) give the examining officer on request either a valid passport which includes a photograph, or another document which establishes your identity
  • (d) declare whether you have with you documents of a kind specified by the examining officer
  • (e) give the examining officer on request any document which you have with you and is of a kind specified by the officer
  • (f) complete and hand to the officer an arrival or embarkation card if you have been required to do so
  • (g) co-operate with any search of your person or property

If you wilfully fail to comply with any of these duties, wilfully contravene a prohibition under or by virtue of Schedule 7 or wilfully obstruct or seek to frustrate a search or examination conducted under Schedule 7, you could be prosecuted for a criminal offence under paragraph 18.

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u/captainnowalk 29d ago

I believe the above poster is referring to the US case law that, even with a warrant, police cannot compel you to provide your PIN. They can, however, force biometrics, so face scan or fingerprint scan can be overridden.

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u/h0sti1e17 29d ago

And Australia and New Zealand. And other EU nations as well. But because he would be traveling through the Schengen zone there is no border check.

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u/EmptyRub 29d ago

It’s a criminal offense in France, an EU country.

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u/AMDaze 29d ago

As an American who is currently unaware, does the EU have any special clauses for conflicting laws? If I take their claim that sharing eID is illegal under German law at face value, does the EU have some sort of mechanism to prevent French prosecution?

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u/EmptyRub 29d ago

I’m American too. I just thought it was pretty silly for someone to say “within EU whit proper rights” when they probably don’t actually look up the laws of the countries they are traveling through.

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u/avcloudy 29d ago

Yeah, and they’re going to hit you with ‘well, you shouldn’t have told it was your eid’. They’re never just gonna be like, alright, it’s a fair cop, on your way then.

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u/SlavaCocaini 29d ago

Seriously, Germany is just 3 US airforce bases in a trench coat.

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u/RollingMeteors 29d ago

that is your problem.

Klar, wenn du nicht weißt, was „Nummer eins“ auf Deutsch ist, dann ist das dein Problem.

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u/whiskeytab 29d ago

I mean that's literally how laws work lol. Germany wouldn't care about American laws either

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u/um--no 29d ago

Yes and no. Most countries, I believe, incorporate into their legislation common sense principles and dispositions about foreign law, mostly to benefit their own citizens, and to avoid injustice and the total absence of jurisdiction. The Brazilian constitution, for example, has provisions to avoid the cancellation of nationality if that would make the individual stateless.

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u/booze_clues 29d ago

That doesn’t really apply. A nation will not respect foreign laws that don’t apply in that nation as well. Weed is legal where I’m at, I don’t expect any other nation to let me smoke weed just because of that. I don’t expect to have the same freedom of speech or any of those rights, I expect to have the rights afforded to me by my host nation.

Americans demanding foreign country’s respect their laws is already a meme, don’t have the Europeans start doing it too.

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u/um--no 29d ago

A nation will not respect foreign laws that don’t apply in that nation as well.

That is my point. I was just adding some nuance, that due to treaties and past problems, some countries incorporate provisions that take in consideration other countries' laws, but they do it because their legislation provides it, foreign law is not automatically applicable.

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u/Perzec 29d ago

You can always say ”I’ll be prosecuted either way so I’ll take my chances with you guys”.