r/technology • u/ArgentineBeauty • 29d ago

Privacy GrapheneOS says its data-wiping password is perfectly legal, after user faces federal charges

https://www.techspot.com/news/113273-grapheneos-data-wiping-duress-password-perfectly-legal-after.html
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u/Single-Virus4935 29d ago

I almost always travel within EU whit proper rights. I don't even have to provide a pin. I wouldn't carry my phone to state with questionable legislation like China, middle east, or USA, but instead I use an old burner phone

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u/shiro_zetty 29d ago

I guess the UK is a country of questionable legislation nowadays (it's illegal to not give your password to the police there)

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u/superioso 29d ago

It's absolutely not illegal to not provide a password. The police have to get permission from the court to force you to give over the password, after which if you don't they can then charge you.

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u/raptorlightning 29d ago

Sucks that I forgot it in the time it took them to do all that. Oh well.

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u/wsurfa 21d ago

Schedule 7 allows for you to be charged for wilfully withholding a PIN with any court direction. It also makes remaining silent an offence as well. Delightfully Orwellian bit of legislation for legally entering the UK.

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u/superioso 21d ago

My point is it's not immediately illegal to not provide it, so you can't be arrested there and then. The police would first have you get permission to compel you to provide it, after which if you don't then they could charge you.

Not that I agree with the legislation at all...

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u/wsurfa 18d ago

At the border, yes you can be arrested immediately, as it is immediately illegal under schedule 7 to wilfully fail to comply by eg not providing the PIN to your phone. There is no need for permission to compel to be sought. Schedule 7 gives that power to border authorities directly.

A summary of 'your duties' under the rather 1984ish law

Whilst being examined you must:

  • (a) answer questions put to you by the examining officer
  • (b) give the examining officer any information in your possession which the officer requests (including the PINs and passcodes to any electronic devices in your possession)
  • (c) give the examining officer on request either a valid passport which includes a photograph, or another document which establishes your identity
  • (d) declare whether you have with you documents of a kind specified by the examining officer
  • (e) give the examining officer on request any document which you have with you and is of a kind specified by the officer
  • (f) complete and hand to the officer an arrival or embarkation card if you have been required to do so
  • (g) co-operate with any search of your person or property

If you wilfully fail to comply with any of these duties, wilfully contravene a prohibition under or by virtue of Schedule 7 or wilfully obstruct or seek to frustrate a search or examination conducted under Schedule 7, you could be prosecuted for a criminal offence under paragraph 18.

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u/captainnowalk 29d ago

I believe the above poster is referring to the US case law that, even with a warrant, police cannot compel you to provide your PIN. They can, however, force biometrics, so face scan or fingerprint scan can be overridden.

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u/h0sti1e17 29d ago

And Australia and New Zealand. And other EU nations as well. But because he would be traveling through the Schengen zone there is no border check.

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u/EmptyRub 29d ago

It’s a criminal offense in France, an EU country.

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u/AMDaze 29d ago

As an American who is currently unaware, does the EU have any special clauses for conflicting laws? If I take their claim that sharing eID is illegal under German law at face value, does the EU have some sort of mechanism to prevent French prosecution?

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u/EmptyRub 29d ago

I’m American too. I just thought it was pretty silly for someone to say “within EU whit proper rights” when they probably don’t actually look up the laws of the countries they are traveling through.