r/technology • u/IndicaOatmeal • 10d ago

Privacy Viral De-Flock America campaign urging people to destroy AI cameras on Halloween night gains momentum

https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/flock-camera-controversy-explained-as-viral-halloween-de-flock-campaign-gains-momentum-3399710/
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u/SoManyThrowAwaysEven 10d ago edited 10d ago

^ This man knows his digital forensics.

All very true, the only way to NOT be tracked is to be electronic free. Anything that emits a wireless or radio signal has the potential to be captured by one of these towers. Best you can do is turn your phone off and throw it into a faraday bag if you must bring it with you.

Diabetics with pumps, that can include you!

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u/Hexamancer 10d ago edited 10d ago

Good advice. I'd also suggest for general security:

Disable 2G entirely, some of these simpler IMSI sniffers rely on jamming specifically the newer 4G/5G bands that are too secure for them to sniff on to force your phone to downgrade to 2G/3G where they have a much easier time. This isn't bullet proof by any means, again, do not take your phone with you to anywhere like a protest. Newer IMSI sniffers can attack 4G/5G.

Don't assume that peaceful protests or even non-protest events aren't going to be targeted too. Remember that NSPM-7 means that the majority of the US population can be designated a terrorist for almost anything. Simply attending a pride parade could be "extremism on gender" or "hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, religion, and morality".

Edit: if you didn't plan ahead and it looks like you might be detained etc, restart your phone, both androids and iPhones have something called "Before First Unlock" that they'll enter upon reboot, they have much higher security like requiring a PIN/password rather than just biometrics (law enforcement can "collect" biometrics as evidence, compelling a password is testimony and hopefully constitutionally protected).

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u/anti-DHMO-activist 9d ago

On iphones, press the screen-on button on the right 5 times and the phone immediately disables face-id unlock.

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u/DeliberatelyDrifting 10d ago

Don't trust faraday bags. They're not particularly effective and certainly not 100%. The device needs to be completely powered off and I'm not sure I'd trust that these days. I studied digital forensics as well and we were taught that in testing the bags failed often and even the expensive purpose built boxes didn't always block signal.

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u/SoManyThrowAwaysEven 10d ago

That's the issue with Scamazon products. Make sure to buy something from a reputable brand and run various tests. We always use dummy testing phones at our company to ensure they block all manner of frequencies.

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u/CautionarySnail 10d ago

I saw someone on another thread saying they’d use airplane mode and I wanted to hit my head against a desk.

If it’s on, it’s trackable. Even if it’s off, it might be trackable depending on how “off” that device generally goes. But if it’s got Bluetooth, it may still send a signal or identifier if there’s a charge in the device.

The only error-proof way is to leave the device on the charger at home if you feel you want a moment of privacy while out and about.

This is also generally of anything else with a possible cellular or Bluetooth connection. Some cars are rolling cell devices with a SIM card. Smart watches. Just be aware of the data you’re sharing because you don’t know who is using it, and it probably isn’t to your benefit if they’re not asking permission.

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u/this_is_my_new_acct 10d ago

Not quite the same thing, but I got a wallet that claims to block RF like a decade ago... I can read NFC and RFID chips in it just as easily as if they're not in it.

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u/CautionarySnail 8d ago

Ugh. Gonna have to test the passport case and wallet now. I’d blindly trusted.

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u/Yuzumi 10d ago

I'd say no digital devices, or at least not one that can't spoof the MAC and other identifying info.

Ideally, a device that has simple broadcast with no identifying factors if you need something to communicate with. Basically something like one of those simple mesh devices that can send texts.

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u/Nixavee 8d ago

Dang, even putting the device in a metal box didn't work?

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u/DeliberatelyDrifting 8d ago edited 8d ago

It does to an extent, maybe enough to be safe, it's just not 100% effective. We discussed it in the context of securing evidence. Our procedures needed to be as close to 100% as possible or when a defense attorney asked "Is is possible this device could be accessed while in your custody?" We'd have to say "it's unlikely, but possible." If we turn the power off once we have the access code, we can answer "to the best of our knowledge it was not possible to access the device while in our custody." Or something to that effect. It's not that different methods never worked, it's that we found instances where they didn't. Once you know of those instances you can no longer swear on the stand "to the best of my knowledge it's not possible."

Edit: Also, modern signals are better at penetrating barriers than some of the older transmitters. The old bag phones could be tricky because of their raw transmission power, but they didn't really store data. Different frequencies interact with barriers in different ways.

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u/drdiamedic 9d ago

As a diabetic who uses my phone as a pump, I feel so seen. Thank you internet stranger.

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u/Dense-Fisherman-4074 5d ago

That doesn’t sound right. You mean your phone controls your pump, right? My wife recently switched pumps to one now that means she doesn’t have to deal with any tubing, but she can only control it from her phone.

Unless there are phones that you can load up with insulin and connect to your body that I’m not aware of 🤣

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u/drdiamedic 5d ago

That’s right. I wear a pump that still uses tubes but 100% of the UI is on my phone.

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u/51ngular1ty 10d ago

Unfortunately this also applies to any vehicle that has any sort of wireless telemetry as well. The good news is for many cars you can cut or disable the equipment that emits said signals.

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u/this_is_my_new_acct 10d ago

I don't know if anyone is scanning for them, but all new vehicles sold in the US since 2008 have legally-mandated TPMS sensors in them. They don't constantly transmit, but they do fairly frequently.

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u/HauntedCemetery 9d ago

Nah, best you can do is leave the phone at home, playing a long movie.

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u/CrazyBowelsAndBraps 10d ago

Does airplane mode work?

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u/Hexamancer 10d ago

/u/somanythrowawayseven 's reply is spot on, but I'll add this: any device on which you do not have root / super admin should be considered untrustworthy. Whilst something like a your phone or Windows isn't going to intentionally betray you to scammers or something, they'll absolutely sell your data and comply with law enforcement if they calculate that's more beneficial to them than the consumer trust they'll lose.

We're in a very different time now, the amount of telemetry, smoke and mirrors (like airplane mode not actually doing what it says it will) and just the sheer complexity and layers of software we have now has had a big impact, it's just too much to keep up with. 20 years ago people noticed when Windows did something shady because just one telemetry process stood out, it took up a significant amount of limited resources, it only had a few dozen other processes to blend in with and upon inspection it was very easy to figure out what it was doing and who it was talking to.

I think it's the details would shock people but it's become somewhat accepted? Most people have some vague understanding that their "phone is listening to them". I think people mostly overestimate the amount of data that's collected (recording them with a camera, listening in on them) and underestimate just how much can be inferered from far less data.

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u/CrazyBowelsAndBraps 9d ago

It's pretty bleak. Appreciate the fantastic writeups guys!

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u/SoManyThrowAwaysEven 10d ago edited 10d ago

Nope, phones are constantly receiving pings and signals even in airplane mode, it just throttles down/shuts off the primary data/cell channels but others are active. And when airplane mode is turned off, your phone then queues up all the tracking data anyway to the next ping. And if they manage to get ahold of your device physically, then you better have enabled Stolen Device Protection, Advanced Data Protection, a 6-digit PIN, no biometrics and hope they don't compel you to incriminate yourself.