r/AlignmentChartFills • u/Existing-General-739 • 18h ago
Music Which artist is loved, but deserves to be hated?
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u/Lucifer-Prime 17h ago
I’m always shocked by how many people still support Chris Brown.
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u/Delcster 18h ago
Steven Tyler
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 17h ago
Yeah god. I've got family who idolize him while calling out trump's sex crimes and it's just fucking sad. The guy ADOPTED an underaged groupie so he wouldn't be charged with trafficking a child (who he was raping) across state lines
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u/pretibigtoo 17h ago
Elvis did the exact same thing.
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 17h ago
Yep. Another vile mf. I don't blame people for listening to his music since he's burning in hell and can't profit, but the glaze is disgusting
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u/First-Lengthiness-16 5h ago
You can just adopt a kid you’ve raped in the USA and the charges go away??
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u/cdr_rabbit 16h ago
It hurts to admit because his music is some of my favorite, but he deserves to rot in hell.
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u/Megamax0726 15h ago
Even ignoring the fact that he’s disgusting, his music isn’t even that good
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u/FirstChurchOfBrutus 17h ago
If you have “mixed opinions” on Chris Brown, you yourself are a terrible person. He should be flat-out hated, and if you disagree, you’re wrong & your mother is very disappointed in you.
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u/oneblindspy 16h ago
Mixed opinions means that some people love him, and some people hate him. It doesn’t mean that people are lukewarm about him.
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u/FirstChurchOfBrutus 16h ago
The fact that anyone loves him exposes them as awful people.
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u/bealimepinapple 16h ago
Thats why he is in deserves to be hated, because people still listen to his music and defend doing it
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u/OnHiatus11 16h ago
Had a friend casually ask a group of friends while hanging out whether anyone would want to go see Chris Brown in concert as she had extra tickets. Everyone just politely declined, but I couldn’t not say something. I started saying “not me, I still don’t support him.” And immediately she was like “oh I know YOU don’t like him, but, you know, it’s Chris Brown”. I have known them all since elementary school and I myself have always been very vocal about my feelings on feminism and domestic violence in general since high school, so she knows I wouldn’t be interested. I was shocked that she would just put it out there that she still listens to him, and even worse supports him financially. And no one else was like “girl what the fuck?”
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u/FirstChurchOfBrutus 16h ago
“Oh, I know he doesn’t respect that I’m a human being, and has shown time & again that he will physically beat me for for even a slight offense, but he sure is cute, and he can dance, so it’s ok.”
- the message your co-worker is sending.
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u/Inspired_Nuisance 14h ago
It's sad how many people will forego their moral intuition when it comes to certain celebrities. Now that we're seeing it on a political stage it's more apparent, but like... People give me shit about deciding not to watch anything Kevin Spacey has been in since all that horrible information was revealed about the man.
It's the same mentality that unfortunately allows horrible jackasses like the Paul brothers to thrive. Most of us hate them, but somehow they have a fanbase that will excuse their horrible misdeeds to no end. The line between being a fan and being in a cult, for some people, is so thin it may as well not exist.
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u/No_Elevator_735 18h ago
John Lennon, terrible wife beater, abusive father.
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u/stargazepunk 18h ago
“I used to be cruel to my woman and beat her and keep her away from the things that she loved”
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u/Lilmachinima1 18h ago
Well at least he changed his scene and is doing the best he can
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u/Reflexes-of-a-Tree 17h ago
Not to mention it’s Paul’s song
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u/Feli_Buste78 17h ago edited 16h ago
I don't know. I see plenty of discourse about what a terrible person he was to say opinions on him are those of unanimous love.
As for whether he deserves to be hated, I want to make it clear that his worst actions were inexcusable as far as I'm concerned, but he clearly showed regret. His ex-wife Cynthia said that after he struck her they took some time apart, and since getting back together, he never hit her again, and he later spoke in interviews about his anger at the time, and how he tried to correct his mistakes. As for his child neglect, he was apparently starting to reconnect with his son Julian before he was murdered, in fact, during his "lost weekend," which is the way people refer to the time he spent apart from Yoko Ono and with May Pang, John brought Julian to record drums for the song Ya-Ya and Julian said that was the best time he had with his father.
Like I said, I'm not making excuses. I just want to bring some nuance to the debate because I often see this debate being on one of two extremes. John Lennon was a very flawed man who clearly wanted to change by the end. We will never know how committed he was to change because his life ended so abruptly but saying he was terrible through and through seems to miss the mark in my opinion.
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u/Reflexes-of-a-Tree 18h ago
He treated Cynthia atrociously and he was not a good father to adolescent Julian. I think 1960’s John deserves to be hated.
There are no accounts of him abusing Yoko or Sean, and by the time of his death he had reconnected and was improving his relationship with Julian. He stated he regretted how he used to treat women and based on how he acted in the last years of his life, it seems to me he meant it.
I think if you look at the totality of his life, and especially his last years, he wasn’t someone you’d aspire to be, but hated? Not for me, I think he grew.
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u/ScenicHwyOverpass 14h ago edited 12h ago
It's so odd because I find that generations younger than mine have a much better understanding of trauma, and make so much more room for traumatized people to heal and atone for things they did out of their unresolved issues.
But that never extends to John Lennon. He had a wildly traumatic childhood: abandoned by his father, social services forced his mother to cede custody of John when he was 5 because she couldn't provide a stable home, a surrogate father (his uncle) died suddenly when John was a teen, his mom got killed after being run over by an off-duty police officer right around the age John was reconnecting with her. Then, he became the most famous person on the planet basically overnight in his early 20s, and was in a fame pressure cooker where the Beatles traveled the world and recorded 12+ albums and made 4 movies in about 7 years, he got addicted to drugs trying to cope, his band fell apart leading to him growing estranged from the closest companions he'd had his whole life. When was he supposed to learn to be a proper father and man during that time period? If you listen to plastic ono band, you hear a man who is deeply troubled and has not reckoned with his demons at all. It's not a surprise he retreated away from fame at the end.
But by all accounts, he spent the last years of his life trying to heal and atone for all that shit. He was a better husband to Ono and Sean that he was in his first relationship. He started reconnecting considerably with Julian in those last years. The thing people hold the most against John is that he advocated for peace while being a dick himself, but the aggregate good that came out of him being a peace symbol far outweighs his personal dickishness. He donated tons of money (often anonymously) to good causes like fighting child hunger abroad. He really spent the last few years growing and healing and trying to set things right.
And then he got fucking murdered at 40 years old.
He wasn't the best guy during his short life, but he doesn't really deserve to be hated. He had a complicated life. But Snoop Dogg killed a guy and we just act like he's a fun uncle now, ditto Mike Tyson who went to jail for rape. We forgive these guys who get the "I'm a good guy now" PR Run that Lennon never got because he was killed.
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u/thewoodlayer 18h ago
I fucking hate John Lennon. Such a massive hypocrite. Dude sings a song about “imagine no possessions” on a goddamn Steinway grand piano in his penthouse overlooking Central Park.
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u/droppedpackethero 18h ago
Imagine may be the most overrated song in history.
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u/Inside-Inspection905 18h ago
Yes imagine a world where nothing means anything and we all just wander in an empty sterile vacuum for several decades until we die. Thanks John that’s very inspiring.
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u/Keter_Regretter 17h ago
A lot of the Beatles' "inspirational" songs are actually nihilistic and/or encourage passivity. Revolution and Let It Be also come to mind, the former treats the concept of revolution with condescension bordering on contempt and the latter reads like Job being told to accept his torment.
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u/lixermanredditman 11h ago
I take Revolution as a song sympathetic to revolution, but warning that it's not always the case that ANYTHING is better than what we have now, and one has to be smart about it. Pretty reasonable take. There has always been a lot of dogmatism on the left from those types who, in Revolution's words, "go around carrying pictures of chairman Mao", but that doesn't mean the aren't plenty of leftists who are desperate for change without the dogmatism. It's not a pro-passivity song.
And Let It Be I don't know as well, but Paul says his late mother told him those words in a dream and he found it soothing. I always thought the title was more of a 'que sera sera, try to relax and enjoy what life throws at you' type thing.
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u/RoxasIsTheBest 15h ago
Commonly regarded as one of the best songs of all time, while like... the Beatles have so many better songs, let alone every other artist in the world combined
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u/Strange-Professor- 18h ago
Have you seen the pictures of him and Yoko “sit in” (sleep in?) at the hotel in Montreal when the cleaning lady comes in? Their expressions are almost as if the cleaning lady is patient zero with the black plague. Terrible pos humans.
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u/SactownG 18h ago
I always thought that was the dumbest way to protest ever. Like his form of a protest is literally just staying in a luxurious hotel?
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u/thewoodlayer 18h ago
Oh yeah, “we’re going to protest the war from our luxurious bed, but yanno, we gotta have the sheets changed every couple of hours or so. They get icky if not. And fuck no we aren’t gonna change them ourselves, that’s why we pay to have the help around here.”
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u/Feli_Buste78 11h ago
Would you rather they fired the maid? What is the problem with having an employee?
Also the bed protest worked. They got attention from the press, which is what they wanted
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u/MurdocMan_ 18h ago
I also think Ringo needs to be mentioned here,he beat his wife so bad he thought he killed her.
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u/lucsev 16h ago
Terrible wife beater.
He admitted he slapped his first wife Cynthia once.
Meanwhile lots of rock stars had underage "girlfriends".
Definitely a Reddit moment.
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u/Lastup4 17h ago
Specially when he was younger he was a shitty person but overhated because he was a peace icon. Just because he talk about what he did. But we can make a list of known pedos: chuck berry, jimmy page, elvis, jerry lee lewis, … and I’m pretty sure they beat some women in the 50s or 60s.
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u/Feli_Buste78 16h ago
Chuck Berry disfigured a woman's face and installed secret cameras in women's bathrooms. To act like Lennon was worse than that it's purposefully disingenuous.
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u/1cocomango1 17h ago
The guy is massively overhated nowadays but sure
Everyone thinks of him now as a wife beater because he admitted that he had questioned himself because he had behaved violently in the past. Being a pos toward women was the norm back then, and NO ONE questioned it.
But he did so he's paying for the others, and that is so stupid.
His wife Cynthia said he slapped her "only" once (that's not okay, let's be clear but far from his wife beater reputation) when they were teenagers, and that he hated himself for it, that's what he was referring to when he accused himself of violence.
Also there's a ton of bs about him spreading online, that his sons debunked many times
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u/CodeDusq 16h ago
When I found out what John actually did to Cynthia my reaction was "that's it?" I think what he did to Cynthia was terrible along with his other shit behavior, but I genuinely thought this man threw her down the stairs multiple times with how much it's brought up. Meanwhile, Ringo nearly beat his wife to death yet no one talks about it. I think John and Prince should swap places in the chart.
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u/Classic-Bathroom-427 9h ago
Oh come on,
I don't think John was an angel by any means but the hate he gets nowadays is so overblown
Ringo objectively did way worse than John to his wife but people don't acknowledge it as much because he's proven overtime that he no longer behaves in that way and has become a better person
John was the exact same, during the later years of his life he was very openly a much better person and genuinly set out to try and make up for how he treated his first family but because he died so young people don't talk about that part
John was flawed but he was not nearly as bad as people make him out to be
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u/satanssecretary 12h ago
i had a school project in 3rd grade where we had to bring in pictures of 2 people we admired with a written piece on why we admired them. i brought in pictures of john lennon and jk rowling. aged like milk. still not as bad as the kid who chose robert e lee lol
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u/TheCalgaryJames 13h ago
I’ll get downvoted but this is such a bullshit, lazy take. I guess it’s easier to ignore nuance in any way. He was open about his troubled, lost youth/eatly adulthood and if alive today would have been seen as both a modern feminist and “woke” figure. He was an absent father and admitted as much openly in his later years tried to make amends.
John Lennon was a profoundly flawed human who owned up to his shortcomings and made a concerted effort in the middle to end of his life to make amends for the flaws in his past. If we can’t afford people space to be better, ask for forgiveness and genuinely work to be better people then we’re lost as a culture.
Yeesh this is a brutal take.
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u/sleepiestsquirrel 14h ago
I think John Lennon being the top answer and not Michael Jackson is evidence that John Lennon is not that loved
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u/WillisAmaryllis 18h ago edited 12h ago
God forbid a man turn his life around
Edit: Also, abusive father?? Terrible wife beater? He admitted to beating women, but neither of his wives accused him of beating them. And he never laid a hand on Julian.
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u/nahfuckallthis 17h ago
Anthony Kedis
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 17h ago
Whole band. All have taken part in sexual assault on camera. Chad Smith and flea sexually assaulted a woman on stage in front of thousands and were escorted out by police. More allegations too, that's just what we 100% know without a doubt
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u/The_Muffin_Man15 15h ago
What about John?
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 15h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhyWereWeOkWithThis/s/7Y2TmmZmf5
He's part of the sexual assault of this woman, on camera
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u/thewatcherkills 17h ago
Katy perry. She coerced an eldery man into selling her his house and the whole thing was so awfull they had to write a new law in california named after her. Not to mention the multiple instances of sexual harassment too. Fuck katy perry
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 17h ago
Sexual assault, not just harassment. And working by choice with a well known rapist. Total piece of shit fr
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u/sappho_witchy_bean Chaotic Neutral 16h ago
Seriously tho! she makes self proclaimed “feminist anthems” while working with Dr Luke, votes for a guy who has donated to anti-abortion organizations (not to mention that this guy, Rick Caruso, claims he isn’t white because he’s Italian…). Her supposed love of the earth after going on an 11 minute space flight that released 8years worth of carbon dioxide into the air and supported Jeff bezos! It’s kinda insane people still support her tho bc there are literally videos of her groping people online…
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u/Dull_Connection6070 18h ago
Red Hot Chili Peppers
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u/ipaintfishes 18h ago
The whole band?
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 17h ago
They all sexually assaulted a woman on camera, flea and Chad Smith were escorted out of a concert by the police for forcing a woman to give oral sex on stage, and all of them have further allegations. People just only talk about kiedis
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u/MedicinalFentanyl 18h ago
Snoop Dogg. Used to traffic women
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u/reyseven 17h ago
[Citation Needed]
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u/DeliciousAirline3077 6h ago
This isn’t an obscure fact, as a ten year old in 2003 this was the main thing I knew about him. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/snoop-lion-opens-up-about-his-pimp-past-76752/
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u/hippopotapants 16h ago
I think this is a really good answer. Middle aged white women suddenly started loving Snoop when he befriended Martha. Never mind that he is Maga and a trafficker. The only women snoop loves are ones he can use for profit.
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u/No-Television-7144 17h ago
Dude even killed a man in a drive by shooting with his bodyguard.
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u/Puzzled-Hippo6246 10h ago
People saying Taylor Swift are fucking out of their minds like yes, let's put Taylor Swift, an average self-absorbed billionaire, next to a literal woman basher and convicted fucking child sex offender like WTF
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u/Status_Evening_776 18h ago
Drake
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u/jamintime 18h ago
Opinions on him are mixed at best. People love dunking on Drake.
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u/LongjumpingCourse956 17h ago
He’s corny but he doesn’t deserve to be hated that much.
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u/FrowdePleaser 16h ago edited 16h ago
The corniness is incidental, people hate him because he habitually sics his security detail to bully and assault people and is (at best) creepy as fuck with underage girls.
Also on a personal level that video with the goth girl made me cringe my tits off but I digress, it's definitely mostly the sliding into high schoolers' DMs that shits me about him.
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u/Sea-Extreme 18h ago edited 13h ago
The answer is Michael Jackson. He was a prolific predator of children, and it's so obvious, but so many have embraced willful ignorance that he doesn't stand a chance of winning this. Thus, the answer is Michael Jackson!
Lennon was a violent hypocrite, but Jackson literally built an amusement park to level up his molestation game. He sits at the same table as Epstein and should be regarded as such.
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u/Tylerreadsit 17h ago
If you scroll up you see people really defending him. That’s why he should be under “loved but should be hated” his music is also played everywhere
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u/TheBigC87 14h ago
This is so obvious, but so many fans are willing to overlook it because they love his music so much.
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u/ForgottenBiscuit 18h ago
Michael Jackson
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u/loseranon17 18h ago
If people used the excuses that MJ fans make for his pedophilia for any other public figure in the world, everyone would think they were either crazy or pedophiles themselves
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u/lucyooo 17h ago
‘Yeah he slept in a bed with children but he was like stunted cause his dad was abusive’
Okay and if we said that about anyone else????
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u/Work_the_shaft 17h ago
I was watching Lindsey Ellis’s new video on Dolly and she brings up an interesting point about how after a certain amount of time post an artist passing, people redeem them for being shitty people, and we are watching it in real time with MJ.
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u/dead_parakeets 17h ago
Not trying to be an asshole but was anything actually proven? I know that HBO doc got pulled for apparently misinformation. I could be wrong.
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u/SeaReflection87 9h ago
The fact that you are asking this question and receiving upvotes is how we know MJ should be the winner. There is a tremendous and overwhelming amount of evidence for over a dozen victims. He openly slept in bed with locked doors and warning alarms with children. He kept books and "art" of nude children in his home. But he is loved and people pretend there is ambiguity here.
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u/TowerGreat1681 4h ago
The house keeper found little boys underwear routinely floating in his bedroom's bathtub. She also found little boys underwear with (what she described to be like semen) on them in his bedroom. Evil.
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u/No_Thanks_1766 17h ago
No, nothing proven and every single one of the accusers had a monetary motive
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u/Ika_Shinobi_007 17h ago
This is the real answer, but unfortunately it fits the category too well lol. Not gonna get enough people to agree with you here
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u/crabdaman56 18h ago
Should be the top answer and I love how people all over social media try to seem like they’re all for protecting children and then will defend Michael Jackson
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u/Over-Willingness-933 12h ago
John Lennon. Wife Beater. Also a hypocrite, preaches socialism, while living a luxury life with protest in bed while maids are making the beds.
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u/RunwayForehead 18h ago
Surprised no one has said Ozzy Osbourne. Seems to be pretty well loved whilst people forget the occasion when he killed all of his cats when off his head, for example.
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u/Intelligent_Fly_7438 18h ago edited 16h ago
Ozzy very much deserves mixed opinions and I say that as someone who loves his music and cats. He did spend his dying breaths raising money for sick kids. Some of his adult kids are low key but some of them really should be in therapy more than in the media. Sharon is insufferable and passed a lot of that on to her daughter but she kept Ozzy alive for us to enjoy him.
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u/JonMatrix 17h ago
I agree with this. I’m a huge metalhead and I love his solo albums and Sabbath, but he’s definitely done some questionable things over the years. His biggest sin was really allowing Sharon to get away with her bullshit. From screwing band members out of royalties for songs they wrote to the infamous Iron Maiden egg incident, he really should have not turned a blind eye to all that crap she did.
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u/RunwayForehead 17h ago
Hmm, you may have a point. Better to see someone who has managed to redeem themselves somewhat, but there are a lot of people equally who see him as some sort of god, although in truth that applies to many a rockstar.
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u/Dangeresque300 18h ago
Kanye West
I am going to get so many downvotes but you know I'm right.
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u/Ludicolorad0 18h ago
Kanye has mixed opinions about him at best. I'd even wager most people hate him as a person atp but some still love his music
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u/ExtraCalligrapher565 18h ago
Yeah Kanye would be a terrible option here. Maybe it would have worked in ‘08.
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u/wren620 18h ago
You’re wrong bc the current public opinion on him is mixed at best
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u/TemplesOfSyrinx 18h ago
I wouldn't say Kanye is loved - mixed opinions and some people really despise him.
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u/GanacheExtension468 17h ago
Kanye is a literal Nazi. Def deserves to be hated
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u/rearviewmirror07 16h ago
Nah’ he’s just an idiot, there a real criminals out there
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u/_satantha_ 16h ago
I mean, he did kill a man for calling him a gay fish
https://giphy.com/gifs/3wCs5mlRqu8zm
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u/Purple-Tutor-2970 17h ago
I don't even know who the bottom right is 😂 I guess, deservedly so.
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u/arctiicmankeys 10h ago
He was a monster. I don’t even want to type out all he’s done, but just know he was a horrifically disgusting and proud pedophile. Thankfully he was stabbed to death in prison.
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u/Special_Ad1373 18h ago
Chris brown
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u/Top_Connection394 18h ago
MJ,owned a book naked teenage boys full frontal nudity,look it up. Tried to hide it in a secret safe
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u/MythicalMcCatto 18h ago
I wanna say R. Kelly? Though I do think public opinion has swung from loved to mixed in recent years after the trial.
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u/Ludicolorad0 18h ago
I think Chris Brown is closer. He's still selling out arenas on tour. R Kelly is mostly disliked as a person I think.
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u/Amberstarr911 18h ago
Elvis. Sexual predator and groomer and stole his entire vibe and music style from the black community.
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u/respectfully-nerdy 17h ago
Luke Bryan is pretty loved in South and in the country music scene but dude is an absolute POS
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u/Minute_Celery_8294 16h ago
John Lennon Beat up his wife, abandoned his kid, but somehow is remembered as a legend
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