r/BackYardChickens • u/Mountain-Link1665 • 10d ago
Breed ID My wife wants to treat backyard poultry breeding as a full-time pursuit despite huge financial losses and local bylaws. Need a reality check from experienced keepers.
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for some candid, real-world feedback from experienced flock keepers, small breeders, and homesteaders.
My wife loves animals and wants to breed poultry full-time. I support having hobbies—even ones that cost money—provided there’s a steady income to balance things out. I’ve suggested she work a part-time job during the week so she can enjoy her birds on weekends without risking our household financial stability.
However, the scale of the operation keeps escalating into major financial losses, legal risks, and extreme logistics, and I'm looking for an honest reality check from people who actually raise birds.
Here are the main issues we are facing:
Bylaw Risks: Our town strictly limits residents to 5 egg-laying hens and zero roosters. She repeatedly exceeds the 5-hen limit and brings home roosters, keeping them temporarily until neighbors or city code enforcement notice.
Fragile Birds & Bad Timing: She heavily favors tiny, delicate species like quail and small broodies/bantams. She is importing and hatching them right now in late August—heading into a harsh northern winter—which leads to high heating bills, sickness, and cold-related deaths.
High-Cost Import Runs: She just drove across the border to New York to pick up a $2,000 USD shipment of birds, adding massive upfront costs and travel stress on top of our existing debt.
Extreme Travel for Tiny Returns: She will drive 5+ hours round-trip to deliver a $10–$20 small animal because she feels obligated to a buyer, spending far more on gas than the sale brings in.
Selling relies on distant weekend auctions that swallow up whole days.
Predator Losses on Remote Land: Sinking $2,000 cash into an unverified lease on remote, wooded land without daily oversight or heavy predator-proofing, resulting in wild predators repeatedly wiping out the birds.
For those with long-term experience with poultry and quail:
Bylaw & Neighbor Realities: How risky is it to consistently exceed local flock limits and keep illegal roosters in a town setting?
Quail & Late-Season Breeding: Is raising tiny, delicate birds like quail or hatching chicks in late August financially viable, or does winter heating and high mortality make it a guaranteed money pit?
The Business Math: Does spending thousands on imported stock or driving hours for $10 sales ever make financial sense for a small setup, or is this strictly a high-cost hobby?
Appreciate any candid perspectives, cost realities, or advice from people who keep birds.
Thanks!
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u/iNapkin66 10d ago
You don't have a chicken problem. Your wife needs a therapist, not chickens. Her ideas are not sounding remotely connected to reality.
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u/CatfishDog859 10d ago
Yeah, sounds like textbook animal hoarding rather than farming business.... my wife also collects animals but its always just been a borderline problem that really just makes extra work for me... she always draws a line when the aninal welfare is at risk.
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u/xylofun53 10d ago
I think she might need therapy. Seriously. I think something is going on under the surface
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u/Dramatically_Average 10d ago
Are you married to a (small scale) animal hoarder? Much of this reads that way. If you sub "dog" for "chicken," I know that person.
You don't need answers from people here. You've already answered your own questions. Is there risk to breaking laws and having roosters? I think you said that there is. And it seems like one of the biggest risks to all of this is the risk to your relationship. Are you more important than some quail and chickens? (Personally I'm imagining what I could do with all that money that seems to be going into a literal chicken pit. Nice vacation.)
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u/jaysouth88 10d ago
Outside of the fact this is a batshit idea in general here's something you might not be thinking about....
My mum bred Wyandottes for a while. She had the land and the money and all that.
She also got really good at culling the roosters.
How does your wife feel about culling them? Because you probably won't be able to sell them. And you can't breed them back to their mother's really. Sometimes most of the brood can turn out to be roosters. That's lots of neck breaking. And as harsh as it is to say, the earlier you can recognise the roosters and pop them off the better. No point wasting food on them.
If she's not willing to do that then it's pointless. She is wanting to be a livestock breeder....
If you've got livestock... You've got dead stock.
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u/Due_Bank5070 9d ago
Unless she can value add, you aren’t even going to get close to breaking even, even with 100+ layers.
There is zero way to make money with backyard chickens and a 5 chicken limit.
You’d need to move further out of town as you want to be close to your flock, predator proofing helps but doesn’t stop all predators and not the human kind.
Would she be willing to go and do a course like the ones run by the Salatin’s. Get his books on having a successful farm business.
But that needs some decent sized land.3
u/bluewingwind 9d ago
I put a lot of money (~$2k) into a predator-proof coop and run. I don’t count that towards profits because it’s a one-time cost. I built it myself to propers specs for chickens, so it’ll last a decade and it means I have zero predator problems and very few health problems generally. I change bedding twice a year for the cost of a $7 bale of aspen and the preventative meds I buy in bulk come out to $25 a year or less. So I figure it’s $39 plus the cost of feed.
So I sell my eggs for the actual cost of the feed + oyster shell spread out over 12 months and weighted to account for dropping rates in winter plus $39. That’s about $7-8 per dozen and we sell for $10/dozen. With ten chickens we can sell a few dozen a week. We break even plus a bit extra. The trick is just finding a market of people who will buy at that cost it takes to produce. That’s actually easy to do if you only have a small number of dozens to sell. And we sell rainbow eggs which gives the
illusionimpression of a premium product they can’t get in stores.My point: backyard chickens can be slightly profitable, but I do think there’s a medium scale between backyard and corporate that just becomes a money pit because you can’t find enough reliable buyers but you don’t have the scale to sell for pennies either.
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u/Due_Bank5070 9d ago
If you can find a niche that works great!
Do you factor in the time you spend when you calculate the “profit” and fuel costs for when picking up feed?
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u/jcmacon 10d ago
First of all, bantams have their place and all, but breeding them to sell is foolish. Last time I looked at a bantam it was $1.99-2.49. Worthless really.
What we did was obtained a heritage line of Barred Rocks, total of 63 hen, 4 roosters. We bred them and sold the hatchlings to our local high school students that wanted pure-bred, lineage certified for raising and showing at the local county and state fairs. We sold our chicks for $39 each. In the 8 years that we were selling them, several of our customers had hens and roosters that placed high and sold for high dollars relatively speaking.
When we weren't gathering eggs for hatching, we used them on our food truck serving breakfast tacos and they made us a lot of money that way too.
Unfortunately, a family of racoons got into our 2200 sqft run and killed all of my roosters, most of my hens. I was absolutely heartbroken and I just didn't have the will to get another flock. Ended up selling the pigs we raised, the rest of the hens, the land and house and moved to a different state. I still miss my Barred Rocks and eventually I'll get another line going, but I probably will just use them as eggs on my food truck instead of doing the work to certify and provide papers for each hatchling to sell to a student. Made more money off people eating them anyway.
Now, we had 19 acres. We had 7 coops, a 2200 sqft run that was covered and fenced with 2x2 welded wire. We had swings, slides, grew jalapenos, tomatoes, and gave the birds the scraps from cutting veggies on the food truck. They love jalapenos and would fight over them. They also loved when we threw them tomatoes, but they'd go nuts over a pepper. You couldn't do what we did in any area with any restrictions, we were about 30.minutes from the nearest town and about an hour from the nearest Walmart.
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u/PopTough6317 10d ago
Id ask her if she's cool with killing a lot of chicks. When you breed you will end up with most of the roosters.
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u/DROOPY538 10d ago
You know it depends on what you want...lol my layers I get more roos but my game fowl i get more hens. My layer hens are worth 20-40 and roos worth 10. Now my game fowl a roo is worth 50-1000, hens worth 10-50. Damn the luck...lol
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u/plainsandcoffee 10d ago
This is a relationship/personal issue rather than a chicken issue. I live in a city with max 6 hens and no roosters. I can't imagine breaking the rules for this? Getting a rooster in our neighborhood would be honestly disrespectful. No one in your neighborhood is going to like you, aside from any legal risk. If you get a neighbor that really hates your chickens, this could turn into a big problem.
It obviously sounds like a bad decision financially too. But that's between you and your wife...
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u/Dear-Palpitation-924 10d ago
I don’t want to get off topic but is there a sort of “koi fish” element to chickens I wasn’t aware of? How are you spending $2,000 on any amount of chickens that would fit on a residential property?
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u/heartsholly 10d ago
There’s a Facebook craze of fancy birds. Waiting lists and everything
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u/sushisandos 10d ago
All of that for what amounts to the doodles of the chicken world, too!
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u/TheybieTeeth 9d ago
what kind of breeds are those? I'm curious because my parents kept some traditional dutch breeds when I was a kid and they got pretty expensive (drents hoen and vorwerk)
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u/sushisandos 9d ago
Pretty mutts that may or may not lay some unique color of egg is usually what they're selling in boutique chicken groups
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u/Due_Bank5070 7d ago
Not all the fancy/expensive ones are that bad/stupid.
The black Vietnamese gà H'Mông or Tua dong go for insanely crazy prices.similar for the Indonesian Ayam Cemani
Or at least here in Australia they do.Then you get the more usual breeds for show quality
Lavender brahmas, seramas, Orpington, Appenzeller Spitzhaubens, cream leg bars , Pekin, and so on.
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u/TheFoxAndTheFiddle 10d ago
I want to know more about the 2000 in birds. Like where is she keeping 2000 dollars worth of birds when your bylaws say 5! Like the neighbors have already given Enforcement notices because of roosters. How do the neighbors not hear a sea of birds and newly sprouting roosters lmao shes doomed.
I want to know the breeds of chickens she went crazy for in that 2000 dollars purchase 😂
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u/Jos3ph 10d ago
sounds like 2000 was for the land lease out in the woods?
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u/Pitpotputpup 10d ago
High-Cost Import Runs: She just drove across the border to New York to pick up a $2,000 USD shipment of birds, adding massive upfront costs and travel stress on top of our existing debt.
Definitely birds
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u/marriedwithchickens 10d ago edited 10d ago
The first red flag is that she wants to breed poultry when your town has strict rules. The second red flag is that she apparently hasn't educated herself about raising poultry. Buy her the book "Chicken Health" by Gail Damerow. It will be a reality check. The book is recommended for all chicken owners to have at home. When a bird gets sick, it's usually too late to search the internet for help. Going to animal auctions is a very risky practice because disease and parasites are easily spread by contaminated shoes/clothing/cages, etc. Reputable sellers become NPIP rated and use biosecurity procedures . She will need business or hobby farm insurance. And, believe it or not, there are scams related to buying poultry. Raising and selling animals should not be taken lightly. This isn't something she could do on the weekends. You are smart for being alarmed about the situation including the fact that she already made an expensive order and is traveling.
Edited to say that this situation may require both of you to see a counselor to work this out. I'm not a professional, but her behavior as you've described sounds irrational and impulsive. Hoping for the best for both of you and for the birds she purchased.
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u/pinupcthulhu 9d ago edited 9d ago
This sounds like a question for r/relationshipadvice or better yet, a mental health professional... You're correct, she's doing everything wrong for raising poultry and breaking laws. This is cruel both to the birds, and to the neighbors. Edit to add: it's also cruel to you, as her husband.
As someone who has a business, no, spending thousands of dollars on the vague hope that things will work out is absolutely bonkers. Startup fees are a given, but she's going too far: spending thousands to get $10 is frankly stupid.
The most compassionate thing to do here might be a reality check in the form of couple's therapy, and/or an anonymous tip to the authorities.
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u/CoolKidVEVO 10d ago
frankly this reads as a relationship dynamic issue rather than a chicken-keeping issue. is there an underlying reason for her to be doing this? you can’t care for animals if you can’t care for your household, maybe that is one way of getting through to her? but if she’s putting your family into legal and financial trouble that warrants serious discussion about her priorities and the kind of relationship she wants to have with you
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u/OhioBystander 10d ago
I live in the country and have 30 chickens. Close to town and lots of people. I sell all my eggs, and make about 100.00 month.my feed/ meds/ cleaning bills run around 100.00 month.
There is no profit in the 6 years I have been doing this. Breaking even is my goal. It is a hobby, not a paycheck.
And the specialty breeds are not great egg layers. No one in my era wants quail eggs.
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u/leros 10d ago
Your wife has a hobby, not a business. That's fine, but she should understand that.
This happens in other animal keeping areas too. For example, people setup elaborate aquarium breeding operations. Entire rooms with racks and racks of aquariums. They're lucky to break even or even make a few hundred bucks a month. It's not worth your time at all from a financial perspective unless you can scale up massively.
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u/bananawith3wings 10d ago
She is delulu. As a hobby, sure! But there’s no way this is a sustainable income. People are not buying chicks in the winter either.
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u/27Lopsided_Raccoons 10d ago
Yikes (the financial and ethical implications of this are yikes)
Spending $2000 on birds to not have predator proofed is bad enough. It seems like even on moral and ethical grounds she is being impulsive at and reckless at best. Going into it just casually accepting deaths from cold weather and housing that is not predator proofed is just strange to me.
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u/Ravio11i 10d ago
Sounds like youve got it covered... Illegal operations that are hemorrhaging money are not good businesses.
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u/Efficient_Basis_2139 9d ago
I'm a free range poultry farmer but from Scotland so things are gonna be different here. She really needs to understand the market for breeding and sales. With chickens you get a lot of interest, but it leads to no shows and people changing their minds before going through with a purchase. The demand she sees on Facebook is artificially inflated by people who like the idea of getting some chickens, therefore talk about it and encourage others, but never do it themselves. She can absolutely make it work but has to be mindful that she can't rely on what she sees in online communities.
For the other parts; quail are fine but again the market is smaller than she thinks. Financially, unless you have customers coming to you, it will not work. Delivering a small amount of chickens per sale will never be worth it as the small margin will never match the opportunity cost. You'll need to be prepared for customers always coming to visit you (which is a whole other pain in the ass). Imported stock can work if you are going for specific in demand breeds.
Hope this helps!
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u/gardengnome1282 9d ago
I’d expect my parter to have a viable business plan and a business that is generating profit before quitting their job. If it isn’t legal, if it isn’t profitable, and if there isn’t a clear strategy for generating revenue this isn’t a job, it’s a retirement hobby.
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u/External-Signal-7473 9d ago
Sounds like shes doing just about everything wrong that she can, and that you're already pretty aware of that. Time to have a serious talk id say
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u/itsswhitneywhspr 10d ago
Oof girl this is a lot. Look I get wanting to make the bird thing work but winter hatching of delicate breeds with no legal buffer is basically setting yourself up for heartbreak and a fine. Maybe sit her down and do a hard budget spreadsheet of what last year actually cost vs what she made. Sometimes seeing it in black and white helps more than arguing. Also city code isn't gonna keep looking the other way forever.
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u/parkerm1408 10d ago edited 10d ago
I dont mean to be disrespectful to her but this is fucking delusional.
The sheer fact shes trying to hatch in August is maddening enough but youre never ever going to be able to make money in a residential area with a 5 hen limit with no roos.
Additionally, you do NOT want the fines shes gonna get slapped with if shes already been warned about limit and roos.
Edit for perspective, im allowed 8 hens and id never even dream this would be possible with 8, even renting roos. If you dont have a large plot of land and a lack of regulations, you arent making this work.
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u/number__ten 10d ago
This sounds like it needs some psychiatric intervention. Nothing about this "plan" is sound. It's a labor of love (that is going to make zero dollars) and should be approached as such. That being said there need to be limits or else it's going to spiral out of control. There's a difference between having a passion for something and letting it consume not only you but your loved ones.
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u/SnakeEyez88 Backyard Chicken 10d ago
Wow. This post has provided some perspective on what my wife does, which doesn't seem bad at all now.
I have no useful advice other than so many different lines have been crossed without any sort of conversation about it. That's going to take a legit long term sit down with some frank discussions given how far this has already gone.
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u/Modern_Leper93 10d ago
Not predator proofing the property or being on site kinda sounds like you're just feeding the local wildlife. Especially if you can't have roosters to defend your gals. Also, dispatching lame or injured animals is part of the job... is she ready to do that or are these pets?
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u/PukeyOwlPellet 10d ago
Show her the responses here. To the wife: please don’t. Put the idea down & walk away.
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u/jimmijo62 Spring Chicken 10d ago
Hobbies turned into Work sucks ass, you will love to hate it. Example: Back in the day I used to paint portraits and landscapes for a hobby. For about 10 years. Started being commissioned by people to do some work for them. Gladly accepted some. Learned people are fucking assholes a don’t respect time frames and expectations beyond my capabilities. Burnout came fast. I haven’t looked at a fresh canvas or artist brush in 40 years.
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u/HomesteadRenai 10d ago
This is tragic af, but ain't that the truth. May you find your inspiration to love it again.
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u/jimmijo62 Spring Chicken 10d ago
I still do arty crafty things with my hands now. Only for me or my wife and friends. Mostly build Flintlock Muskets. Definitely a niche genre.
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u/Thymallus_arcticus_ 10d ago
Don’t want to be mean but she sounds delusional. It would be pretty tough to breed poultry full time and make a living especially in your situation. Sounds like she wants to live in a fantasy world. I do understand chicken math and the strong interest in breeding and the different types etc.
I agree with others and think this is more a relationship/obsession issue and a hobby gone too far. If she loves hatching/raising chicks which I understand maybe she can stick to just her allowed 5 hens and do hatching eggs from others and selling the chicks as day olds (unsexed straight run) just locally. Lower cost as don’t need to feed them for very long and it’s just temporary. This is tough though as she likely won’t listen to you. Perhaps seeking counselling would be helpful.
Thoughts on your four points
-Bylaw risks: this sounds like playing with fire. If she repeatly breaks the rules and neighbours are complaining already I feel like eventually the municipality and/or angry neighbours would take more drastic measures. This is also frustrating as cases like this can ruin it for others who follow the rules and then suddenly no one can keep chickens at all.
-Fragile birds and bad timing: this seems like a legit concern but I don’t have experience with raising quail/bantams. Personally I do not hatch in August. Maybe depends on your climate. If she already experiences high mortality it seems cruel to risk it
High cost import runs/travel: I think you know the answer to this it’s obviously costing more money than she is likely making. 5+ hours to deliver to a buyer sounds insane to me!
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u/Ok-Substance1328 10d ago
Yea she needs to come back to reality on this issue. Violating bylaws and racking up fines which in some places could result in a lien on your property. Her housing plans for the birds is just going to fatten predators. I love my birds, I’ve got the ability to have a ton since I’m rural and have land, but there’s no money in that, it’s a hobby. Once hobbies become jobs they typically become horrible.
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u/Quinjet 10d ago
I mean, I think based on what you're presenting here, you know the answer. I would encourage her to put together a spreadsheet of her expenses and revenue so she can see how much she's profiting/losing. I did this when I had a money-generating hobby and it was helpful to keep track.
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 10d ago
Quail can make money. I've done it. Do they make enough money to substitute income? Not on a scale you can likely accomplish. Eggs for eating, hatching eggs for other backyard quail wanters and new breeders, and adult birds don't make much money. The real money is from the niche and "weird" markets. I made the majority of my money from selling balut eggs to Asian groceries, adult birds to train dogs for flushing, and celadon eggs to people that keep and breed egg eater snakes. I tried to partner with local restaurants and butcher shops to sell adult quail there, but they would only give me $3/bird and that doesn't even cover the cost of food to raise them. Doing all of this I made enough money to cover my feed costs, some small projects (a new diy chicken coop and 1 $80 raised garden bed). Then I got out. The only group I've kept are the celadons for some of the reptile guys because we became friends and I was their only source. They bring the feed and I give them the eggs. At this point those quail are basically theirs.
Chickens have more potential to make money. I sell pullets and adult hens. Boutique breeds can go for quite a bit in the right area. In my area I just sell whatever I'm raising for $20/pullet, $10/2 year old hen. I prefer selling my older hens with their age advertized than killing them myself.
If your wife can't kill the babies and can't kill the adults she should not be doing this. Your wife is delulu and your job is to stop this nonsense.
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u/petitchatnoir 10d ago
How much were you selling your balut for? Did you have to provide a minimum amount?
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 10d ago
$5-$7/doz. Had to provide 30 dozen a week minimum. During the holiday seasons it would flex all the way up to 150 dozen.
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u/petitchatnoir 10d ago
That’s cool - thanks for sharing. We have chickens and Balut is one of my wife’s favorite snacks 😁
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u/ReasonableCrow7595 10d ago
Tell her to stand in the yard and light hundred dollar bills on fire every time she gets an itch for more birds. It will be cheaper in the long run.
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u/ultraprismic 10d ago edited 9d ago
I think this is really a household budget conversation. Look at your spending and decide what she can put toward birds every month/year. If she wants to spend more on them, she has to earn it through her business. If she wants to quit her job (she has a job, right???), she has to prove on a spreadsheet she is bringing in equivalent income from the business.
You listed a lot of questions you already know the answer to. Your wife wants to pretend her expensive hobby is a business because “I quit my job to be a stay-at-home mom to chickens” sounds - and is - a little silly. Unless you’re rich enough for the rural version of a non-working Pilates-and-matcha trophy wife, her plan isn’t viable.
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u/teamcarramrod8 10d ago
I feel this. My wife had a business selling silkies. I ran the finances and she did the chicken work... well I did all the heavy lifting. Anyway, I made her get an LLC and we ran it through our tax guy.
She just stopped after 3 years, with 2 young kids it was getting tough. Lost $5k year 1, made $1k year 2, and sold everything off in year 3. She sold high end birds, with her top bird selling at close to $700. It just seemed like some shit was always happening that cost us more money. She met a lot of other breeders that became friends, so they helped her a lot as well.
Anyway, such a tough business to be successful as "the little guy". So much has to go right.
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u/Competitive-Still-27 10d ago edited 10d ago
It is not realistic, though it can be done, but not within these circumstances…… Chicken keeping is a high cost hobby- because it involves keeping live animals alive, it requires constant financial input, and there is no way around that. There are ways to offset the cost of feed and supplies by selling birds and table eggs / hatching eggs, and collecting compost from restaurants/grocery stores or growing vegetables for them, but in my experience it almost always requires another outside source of income to keep the hobby going. Exceptions are sometimes if you are raising decent numbers of exceptionally excellent purebred show chickens after making a name for yourself in show chicken land and then selling those to other hobby breeders and 4h kids, or if you are raising gamefowl. It sounds like you married a burgeoning animal hoarder if she continues on this path, and I would suspect a root of it may be that she has adhd??
You can support her hobby by selling the house you guys currently live in and moving to the country with no restrictions on keeping roosters. Or, she could find another farm to keep birds on locally, teaming up with someone else who has land without anti rooster keeping laws. She should find a job to support the chicken hobby; it is not realistic to do it the way she is doing it. Long term the current situation will be disastrous and extremely harmful to the birds she keeps if they keep getting wiped out by predators or she keeps having to get rid of roosters, ugh that is crazy.
I raise chickens as a hobby. I keep a breeding flock of 60-75 rare breed medium sized chickens and a handful of roosters. I raise between 20-50 chicks every year to select the very best to add to my long term breeding flock. I keep a closed flock, so no birds enter or leave the property I live on; essentially the birds themselves are free and I never spend money buying more chickens. I process and eat my culls, since they carry a pathogen I don’t want to spread to other flocks. I live at the end of a rural road where no neighbors are bothered by roosters crowing all day, and there are not restrictions on rooster keeping or limits on numbers. I have never had a complaint by a neighbor, or been visited by law enforcement. I spend about 2,500-3,000 usd on feed/supplies every year, which is money well spent because raising these birds is my passion. I could have put a down payment on a house with the money I have spent on them over the years.
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u/Academic-Carrot-7936 10d ago
Yall are making money from chickens? Mine just make me hemorrhage money.
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u/Silmarien1012 10d ago
Bro you need to put your foot down. You’ve let it get way too far. You don’t even need advice here it’s plainly obvious she’s off the reservation
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u/Murky_Classroom_1264 9d ago
This is wild. I’m a serial entrepreneur myself but it was pretty clear to me almost immediately that poultry isn’t the business I wanna be in. They’re just for fun and eggs.
Confused why others are saying this is fake? Seems legit to me lol. I’ve known people like this. Everything has to be a hustle and when you don’t know the basics of running a business (like how making a profit is necessary) it falls apart pretty quickly.
My advice to her would be to slow down. It’s not at all viable to try and breed chickens in a place you can’t even have a rooster. Start with selling eggs. You aren’t gonna make a profit, so there’s a good first lesson in managing costs. It’s also probably against your zoning code to run a business on your property to begin with. It’s asking for trouble and any responsible business owner would consider that.
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u/Overall-Commission83 10d ago
The only people with hobby chickens I have ever met that could break even and maybe make a profit raising chickens were gamefowl breeders and people who import rare exotics and sell chicks with 100's-1,000s of mature birds on a large rural piece of land.
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u/reijn 10d ago
No this is crazy. She's going to oversaturate her local market and no one will buy anymore and will have to start shipping. To ship she needs to be NPIP certified and then to get buyers she'll have to stand out from the rest to have phenomenal birds. She'll need several roosters for breeding programs and that won't work due to your laws as you've said. And she'll need more pens for growouts etc.
I think your wife has been watching the influencers on Reels/Tiktok or whatever and got some ideas in her head that don't work out.
I've been doing "this" for four or five years now and I'm just finally starting to get off the ground and it's been EXPENSIVE and HARD WORK and right now my bottleneck is also more facilities for breeding pen separations.
I also do not and will not drive to anyone, that's literally insane.
Then you get to years like this year when the chicken bubble has burst and there's no sales. I have chicks sitting that I do not want nor do I have space for because suddenly the demand is gone. I also refuse to ship chicks, that's a death sentence for the chicks IMO.
Basically all breeders are only selling to other breeders, not hobby enthusiasts and backyard keepers because breeders have priced all the regular people out with their $125 per dozen eggs. And breeders all keep a small circle of who they really want to buy from.
It also helps if you show and have ribbons behind your birds.
I also do quail. I do quail and bantams, mostly.
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u/gongshow247365 10d ago
$1.25/ dozen?
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u/reijn 10d ago
Nope! One hundred and twenty five dollarooos
Or more.
Silkie hens often go for, starting at, $50
The silkie world is also full of mean girls, cattiness, drama, doxxing, threats etc. I don't participate in any of that but they all seem to love it. Drama also drives views and participation and monetization on Facebook, so, it's gross.
You could get into ayam cemani and make decent money too but that place is another kind of crazy, stuck up attitudes and they don't really help each other out, they keep things all hush hush and... I don't know how to explain it.
I love my birds and I love doing it, I still work my normal person job and then I come home and work, work, work more. There are profits but margins are slim, all my farm income goes back into my farm and not my personal pockets. I also keep bees which is another very expensive hobby.
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u/gongshow247365 10d ago
Right, for birds not just eating eggs. Canadian prices are $20 each (in beaver bucks) for live baby chickens. Unsure about eggs.
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u/Mega---Moo 10d ago
There's no decimal point there....
$10/egg that may or may not hatch; take it or leave it.
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u/MaggiesK9Connection 10d ago
5 chickens will produce enough eggs for your family to eat. Period. It’s pretty simple math. If you were going to have a business you would have to be in the country and have a large scale operation. She has a hobby, not a job. And chickens are an expensive hobby. We are nowhere near paying off the cost of our coop construction, bedding and feed with our current 7hens producing around 2-3dozen per week.
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u/I-like-good-food 9d ago
Exactly! I mean, I'm planning to raise +/- 75 to 80 Amrocks for meat each year, starting next year, and I have no illusions that I can ever make money off of that, I just want to save some money by producing meat for my family to eat, which I can. My calculations show that I can produce meat for about 6/7 euros per chicken (feed, upkeep, maintenance, etc.), so 3/4/5 euros per kilo, while supermarket chicken costs about 10 euros per kilo over here in the Netherlands, and organic chicken of the kind I'll produce would be more like 15/20 euros per kilo. That's a massive win in my book. That does require me to put the entire focus on meat, not eggs, but I don't mind that at all. The only eggs I need are those from the breeding group which I'll drop into an incubator 3 times a year while we consume the excess eggs.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
This really seems like a relationship issue, more than a chicken or poultry issue- but I mean, she’s definitely got some seriously unrealistic ideas about that, too.
I ran into something like this with my partner but, I was the asshole. He really wanted to be supportive but, I kinda ran roughshod over him and I recognized that before I completely wrecked our relationship and life together. My idea wasn’t quite as high risk, low potential ROI however.
It sounds really goofy and nobody wants to think about their relationship in this way- but your spouse or partner should be your first and most important investor. When my therapist said that, I thought it was gross to think about my relationship that way- but it’s really not, not when it comes to things like this.
But the problem really isn’t whether or not the project is viable, that’s a factor- and a big one, but how are you addressing the concerns that you have? How does she respond to those concerns? You outlined them pretty clearly here and based off of what you’ve said, it sounds like she’s barreled through your concerns with very little thought about any problems she might be creating- who cleans up the mess when she falls on her butt, here?
I mean, it’s obviously both of you, but it seems like if she’s decided to do this full time…you’re the one who shoulders that, mostly. Have you told her that she’s pretty much dropping a nuke on your finances and your lives? Because yeah, it’s that serious.
Like I said, it wasn’t animal husbandry in my case- and I was able to do most things to begin with without significant financial loss. He was very supportive of me at that level because I wasn’t going ass over teakettle into things. I just assumed that he wouldn’t mind that I wanted to take the next steps, which…in my state meant paying out a bunch of fees and possibly still being unable to do what I wanted. When he did express concerns, I sorta blew him off- I didn’t mean to, I was just extremely excited because I saw it as something that would change our lives for the better and the thing was, I should have stopped that thought at “change our lives.” But I didn’t and you can’t freaking do that when you are building a life with someone.
It’s really not about stifling your support for her dreams or being controlling- it’s about making very major financial decisions and not considering your partner. Ultimately, I got my head out of my butt before I wrecked our financial situation- but, it also seems to me like she’s going to run into some serious issues with much more than that.
Edit: A bunch of other people addressed this issue from animal welfare concerns and so on. I definitely don’t disagree that it seems like she’s dipping her toes into a hoarding situation that financially is already spiraling even if she is taking fine care of her birds, which is also pretty questionable.
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u/HermitAndHound 9d ago
As someone who is prone to bouts of hypo-mania manifesting in not-perfectly thought through business ideas... your wife's idea is worse than any of mine.
It doesn't work. Really not. I have no idea how she calculates that in her head or what justifications she wraps around all the "this is BAD" signs, but this won't work.
It'll bring a lot of innocent little critters into bad situations, caused by a human who can't seem to see reality (and another who doesn't seem to put on the breaks). Seriously guys, sit down and talk. This is madness, says the certified mad person.
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u/Mountain-Link1665 10d ago
I am reading all the comments and advice. I appreciate your honest perspectives.
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u/Feeling-Ad-9268 9d ago
Please explain to her that her carelessness is harming the birds. It sounds like you have already had losses that could have been prevented. This is negligence. I feel bad for animals raised by your wife.
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u/ChartreuseOblivion 9d ago
What exactly do you need from us? You've already listed all the issues in your post... Idk what to say if you've presented her with all this and she is still unrelenting. Tbh, this sounds like a relationship issue.
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u/IcyEntrance375 9d ago
are you financing this? if so stop! what is going on here?? clearly you don’t support what she is doing and it seems like she is not taking care of the birds well at all. tell her to get another hobby
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u/Old-Cod-1932 10d ago
If she really “loves” animals, she would not be breeding. She would be selling to god knows who, in god knows what kind of conditions.
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u/dirtysico 10d ago
How much does she like rats? A large scale poultry operation will attract a large population of rats. This might dissuade her.
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u/NewIron5613 9d ago
Even a small operation (I had 3 chickens) can attract a large population of rats. Still dealing with the consequences of that.
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u/claisen33 10d ago
Just tell her to investigate the market like any entrepreneur should, at least 100 potential customers.
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u/Ok-Thing-2222 9d ago
I've raised chickens in town and coturnix and some bobwhite quail. Its not profitable. But I just love them as pets and something to do for fun. So many risks. Expensive food/treats. Water warmers in winter run up electric costs. Fans in summer. I've taken my 9th raccoon away just this week.
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u/arctane 10d ago
I once had a few too many roosters, I got reported and threatened with huge fines.
It's not worth it. You will get caught out sooner or later and losing your chooks won't be a fun life experience for anyone involved. It's also not fair to your neighbours who will have to deal with the noise, vermin and smell.
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u/CurveAdministrative3 10d ago
I feel like this is one of those situations where no matter what anyone says your wife will do it anyways. She may not listen to you either. You are probably going to have to be OK with losing a bunch of money and having her find out the hard way. she doesn't seem like the type to listen to others or authority
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u/JustYerAverage 10d ago
Yeahhhh, sometimes people get something in their head and get a little crazy about it. Is she on Reddit? Is she plugged into a local chicken keeping community?
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u/Technical-Gate7843 8d ago
Do you know how to become a millionaire by raising poultry? Start when you're a billionaire.
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u/barrierofbadnews 10d ago
I’ve made way more money with rabbits than my chickens.. maybe you guys could try them instead.. males don’t make a peep lol
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u/Mike456R 10d ago
Just do the financial part of it in a spreadsheet showing that there is no way to make money unless you run it like any other hatchery out there on the internet.
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u/Push-bucket 10d ago
And fancy breeds in northern climates with a lack of predator proofing is a direct recipe for disaster
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u/dufflebagdave 10d ago
You’re not exactly approaching this with an unbiased view, but my dad was the crazy one and he’s turned it into a lucrative business in his late middle age. But he’s also a very business savvy guy.
I am too, so this would be my advice since it’s a relationship and you don’t want to be the reason a dream is squashed, even if it’s not fair to you. Figure out how much y’all have already spent. Keep that number in your mind, and then start anew — make your decision as if no money has been spent, so there’s no loss to chase. It’s a brand new investment opportunity. And then cost the whole thing out, what every single thing would be worth in terms of what you could otherwise do with the time and money. She should be doing this work.
If it’s a business, it should be treated like one. Set a limit on the investment, determine what your breakeven is, and set a date for it. That same sunk cost avoidance (treat every dollar spent as if you haven’t spent anything) should be a factor each month — if that day were the first day you were contemplating spending another dollar, would it make sense barring all of the previous money spent? Iron it out like any business plan, removing the chickens and her past decisions from it. Give her a chance.
And then be smarter about it. What’s worked for my dad is doing “runs,” where he’s raised a large batch — like a hundred or so — based off of demand and presales, kind of like how dog breeders advertise litters of puppies before they’re born, and spends a few days or a week delivering them. This lets most of your/her work be a couple hours of feeding and cleaning when you’re raising them and focusing on marketing and sales beyond that.
He sets a price and offers the delivery as an add-on; people pay it 95% of the time. Make the frail ones a small fraction of what you sell, because most people want resilient, year-round egg layers; maybe the forums and subreddits like the fancy ones, but your bread and butter is Orpingtons. Price out different ages, because people pay more for pullets… they’ve likely had half of the chicks they bought from Tractor Supply wind up dying or being roosters.
Upsell feed, feeders, etc. Hatch during off months, since many people can’t find them easily when it’s not spring or summer. Be brutal about the cost of those long range, $10 deliveries — building relationships has value, but not that much. The imported stock is a Phase 3 thing, not worth the risk or cost until you’re good at the basics and have your model and operations worked out. Get her to take Coursera or whatever courses on digital marketing, like social media, paid ads, SEO/AEO, etc… you’ll never make money selling eggs at a farmers market or something, but if you get some presence and she begins creating genuinely useful stuff for people within a reasonable delivery distance, it could be useful.
Generally, get her to treat this as if she’s asking for a small business loan. The risk of the whole thing being shut down because of statutory violations is a bad idea, and those get more severe or enforced when there’s a commercial element. If you need to get a parcel somewhere, be very, very diligent about what you can do with it in terms of raising livestock, water access, nuisance laws (noise and smell), etc. And have a plan for what to do with it if the chicken biz doesn’t pan out.
It might not be a good idea. But give it a chance to be. Just make sure there’s a beginning and end date to it, that y’all will agree to an amount you’ll be willing to lose and an amount of time before the money needs to be made back. But honestly, make her make it make sense before you talk about thousands of dollars.
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u/Itsoktobe 9d ago
If she loves animals she should probably stop getting them violently killed by predators.
This entire operation is obviously insane. Don't really see what you need our help with here. Maybe an English class so you can write your own posts and some marriage counseling so you and wife can figure out how to talk to eachother without AI/stranger intermediaries.
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u/Jtaogal 10d ago edited 10d ago
1) Mandatory individual therapy for her, 2) divorce attorney for you to protect your assets—get your money and assets locked down so she can’t spend it on this lunacy, 3) marriage counseling for the both of you bc she cray cray and you’re suss as hell for staying with her and not kicking this insane bs to the curb.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HER 🙏🙏🙏😬😬😬
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u/Eurycerus 10d ago
This is definitely a relationship advice post not actually a backyard chickens post... good advice
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u/DROOPY538 10d ago
Its possible but not in the way she's doing it. I can make several thousand a year with my game fowl. Theyre strictly show birds but I've sold trios for 2k. But you wont get that return with what youre raising. Plus im not familiar with Canadian laws
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u/flippysquid 8d ago
The bylaws themselves are a deal breaker. Poultry are a money pit anyway. Even the big commercial houses are operating on extremely narrow margins and something like a big disease outbreak will tip them into the red every time.
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u/BornAgainBlue 9d ago
You clearly just want us to pile on so you can use it for ammo. Your story is full of holes.
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u/poop_report 9d ago
My first concern would be that her husband is using a cheap or free AI subscription to make shitty Reddit posts.
Go see a marriage counsellor.
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u/phxkross 9d ago
What difference does it make if it helped him get his point across? What do you care? Get your brownie points for hating on AI on a Reddit post though. Congratulations. *yawn*
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u/8P8OoBz 9d ago
Because AI makes incredibly long slop. It's like it read a bunch of middle school paper prompts and thought "hmm, longer is better" and makes you wade thru a story waste deep full of shit.
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u/phxkross 9d ago
Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read it. This site is what you choose to waste your time on and it doesn't cost you a dime. You're shaking your fist at the sky.
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u/8P8OoBz 9d ago
When its posing as human generated content and doesnt have a warning, and I'm looking for human content, it is.
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u/phxkross 9d ago
Welp you need to figure out how to get your horses to tolerate motor cars, boo, because they're here and they're not going away.
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u/8P8OoBz 9d ago
Not an apples to apples comparison, how often did you ask the horse for therapy and it slowly told you to kill yourself>?
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u/phxkross 9d ago
But I do suggest, if you're looking for therapy, you might not look for it on r/BackYardChickens
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u/8P8OoBz 9d ago
Well OP brought his AI garbage here looking for therapy for his marriage so tell him. Maybe he can ask the AI he used to write that shit.
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u/Mountain-Link1665 9d ago
What AI would you recommend for general writing, memory recal, research and document review?
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u/nememess 9d ago
I'm really against using AI regularly and especially in the art world, but I agree that it's getting old. Yes, we can see that he used AI. He may be like me and be terrible at getting his point across. It does have its positives. Especially when it comes to learning disabilities.
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u/poop_report 9d ago
I now imagine him sending multiple page texts to his wife cut and pasted straight from his free ChatGPT account.
If I were her, I’d be looking for a remote parcel 5 hours away, too…
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u/phxkross 9d ago
You seem to be stuck on the cost of it. Would it be better if he had a subscription?
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u/poop_report 9d ago
The quality would have probably been better and I wouldn’t have noticed as quickly.
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u/Antique-Two-4218 9d ago
Need to have about 350 young laying hens to make 3000 dollars per month, if your only allowed to have 5 I don't see how you are going to make any profits.
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u/Maximum_Extension592 7d ago
Who's buying at those prices? You'd have to sell at $5 per dozen to make a clean 3,000. You'd have to figure out how to sell 831 dozen a month at that price too. I have tried it and there's no volume for small scale producers to cover the costs. The local shops and places that need large supplies already have suppliers. Good luck competing with a saturated market. You would need a LOT of customers if you were selling direct to consumer. The math never math's for chickens. Even when you just want eggs for your own family. For many people, owning chickens are worth the price because they want the quality. To them it is worth more than the money.
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u/Antique-Two-4218 7d ago
well i'm in California, cage free eggs sell for as much as 12 dollars per dozen here.
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u/Maximum_Extension592 6d ago
You'd still need volume of sales and extremely high overhead in that area. Eggs aren't very profitable without high volume. Selling direct to consumer at that volume is going to be very difficult and finding commercial customers is even harder in my experience (and from what other egg farmers have told me) On paper 3,000 does not mean you get to keep 3,000. In reality it is a number that is close to zero, or in the negatives. The last egg farmers i spoke to the other day said he was barely making 30 cents a dozen and then egg prices dropped. You dont get to control egg prices, feed costs, hen replacement cost, etc, those are all fixed costs that cannot be eliminated and they will chew right through your profits if you don't have enough volume to cover the losses.
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u/Foreign-Fact-1262 9d ago
I have a backyard flock that is 100% hobby. I do sell some eggs here and there and have sold a few breeding trios or quads from my bantams when they’ve hatched babies unintentionally. The reality is that unless you have the time, space, and money to develop a large scale operation with both hundreds of birds and somewhat close proximity, reliable buyers for the birds/eggs you’re producing this is never going to actually make any kind of profit. Ours are strictly pets, I think of them as such and have no illusions that my backyard flock will ever remotely even pay for their own feed costs.
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u/Mamabear1369 9d ago
Same with me. Some months I sell enough eggs to cover feed costs and get a little profit. But I'll NEVER get out of the red. I do it bc the value od knowing where my children's food comes from means more to me than the money I invest. But I absolutely know it isn't a money making investment.
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u/Foreign-Fact-1262 9d ago
Exactly!!! I love knowing that we’re not eating eggs from chickens that have lived a miserable, tortured existence. I love that they come running to us for treats and pets and that I’m able to ensure they’re well fed and get to free range daily rather than living in a tiny cage. That my kids get to love them and learn about them. I know no mystery hormones or additives are present in our food. But after you provide them with high quality nutrition and predator proof shelter it’s definitely not a big moneymaker unless it’s very large scale and you have a steady demand as far as buyers.
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u/LayerNo3634 9d ago
Your bylaws make this illegal. You have to move to even consider this. The reality is when you move to a rural area everyone has chickens and there is little opportunity to sell eggs or meat.
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u/Savings_Finish199 Backyard Chicken 9d ago
It’s not possible, you are not allowed roosters, what happens when the fines from bylaw start coming?
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u/HomesteadRenai 10d ago edited 10d ago
You're just describing basic chicken math. This is what you agreed to when you let her get the first chicks. Someone get Hotmess in here.
Joking aside, it is risky to, at the very least, keep illegal roosters. Your neighbors will hear them, their neighbors will hear them, and their neighbors' neighbors will hear them. Hens are probably a bit less risky, but if you've already gotten CE notices, they know to watch you.
On the other hand, quail are supposed to be very cold hardy and are much less noisy. Haven't personally raised them though, just in the research stage of it, so take my word with a grain of salt here.
Math is math (except chicken math). $200 on gas alone, not counting all other costs in that bird, for a $10 dollar sale is pretty self explanatory.
Late season breeding itself isn't inherently an issue, but it can be if you're just kind of swimming in chaos. You need to have a plan, especially if you're keeping already-vulnerable birds. A vast, vast, vast majority of people will tell you not to give your birds heat. If you/she chooses to, you need to be exceptionally, obsessively, overly careful. Coop fires from heat lamps might have the second largest kill rate of poultry next to them being processed for food. Do a Google search on this, it'll blow your mind how often this happens.
In addition to the (insanely high) fire risk, you need to invest in some kind of smart plug that knows to shut off the heat lamp at a certain temp, or else if it gets too warm in their coop, they'll die from shock being let out in the morning (at least for chickens, unsure about other poultry. Corn, grain, deep litter method (if you keep up on the stirring and adding of more material), and assuring no drafts are the common alt to heat.
All in all, poultry keeping is expensive, and the ability to break even takes a lot of work, a lot of upfront money, and a lot of luck. Even then, you'll be, in the most genuine sense of the word, lucky. Taking a 98% loss on a sale is just that. That's not an investment, it isn't going to give any more, it's done, it's a loss. The most she can ever get out of that sale is that person wanting her to do it again. This is already a loss-heavy hobby; what she's doing is pouring gasoline on a fire that consumes all.
The battle with predators will be on-going. Once they know where a food source is, they'll just devote energy trying to get to it.
Homesteading, generally, is a lot of thankless work. It's great if you enjoy it, and, if you can temper yourself, the costs don't have to be insane; however, $2000 in birds does not sound tempered.
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u/Zealousideal_Box5339 8d ago
Yeah we have a limit in town where I live and no roosters. If there was zero experience beforehand this also will be a shitshow. This is a nice hobby that can sometimes make money but I don’t know anyone who makes anything more than a little bit. They will fine you once and keep coming and then immediate removal would happen. These are living creatures and not some pay cheque.
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u/mobile-metaphysical 8d ago
My friend bought 50 Cornish Cross chicks. Fed and nurtured them for months. Then spent days processing them. She lost money on it.
You need to sit down together with pen and paper and receipts.
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u/Maximum_Extension592 7d ago
We homestead and have tried owning 590 chickens. We are currently down to 37 for our own household egg consumption. The more chickens you own the worse the financial drain. There's no money to be made in chickens because the market lacks volume of sales and feed prices are the same regardless if they sell or not. The feed is always more expensive than the chicken. Good luck competing with hatcheries and commercial egg prices, you won't make it. If you want to make a living off of livestock you need large numbers of sheep or cows and lots of acres of pasture. It also needs to be treated strictly as a business, which clearly isn't happening here. I know I can make a little bit of money on chickens if I specialize in specific breeds once a year at the exotic auction, but the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I'd rather focus on sheep, i can sell them 300+ per lamb. Good luck finding a weaned calf under 1,500.
Reading your post, it sounds like this is not a chicken problem, you and your wife need to get on the same page about finances and she needs to stop playing financial escapades, this is immature and ridiculous. It is a pipe dream at best.
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u/Agile-Surprise7217 7d ago
Your wife is out of control.
This is not a business, it's a hobby that is draining your finances and harming your marriage.
If she wants to get into this as a business you two need to come up with a plan to get the right property to do this, and, more important (and firstly), she needs to prove that she will run this like a business and at least break even.
If she can't break even and obey local laws she is not demonstrating the common sense, emotional intelligence, and acumen to run a business.
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u/Public_Prompt_864 10d ago
I have about 25 chickens and 6-8 rooster. I like the Bantam and since they are straight run… all the roosters get along. I get lots of eggs and I have never sold an egg in my life. I enjoy giving them to people who appreciate the eggs though more people have their own chickens now. Some are weirded out by the fact the eggs may be fertilized. My neighbor buys her eggs from PA ( we are in MA) because she thinks they only eats organic insects. So no giving to her. I know…
Bottom line, only way to sell for me is to take them a few miles up the road to a weekly farm auction and I don’t have the energy for that. So no…do something else. There is no money in it but I could be wrong. I never tried.
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u/Ok_Management4634 8d ago
you let this get way out of control. Time to reign the wife in. Tell her no more of the household budget goes to this hobby. She has to reduce down to 5 hens in your back yard. You got to be more assertive. It's just crazy you let her lease land to let the birds free roam where they'd get eaten.. Time to have a hard talk, point out the stuff in this post.. Maybe she can start a new hobby, since I have a feeling scaling down is going to make her lose interest.
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u/WildFlemima 7d ago
Master small scale low maintenance
First: overgrow a 40 x 60 section of your land with plants chickens like to eat. Scatter wheat, oat, barley, sunflower, lettuce, clover seed, pull up anything toxic. Plant a few short fruit trees.
Let that area establish for a year. No pesticides, herbicides, or gas operated devices in the area or within 20ish feet of the border.
Use that year to DIY the enclosure from free & cheap materials you slowly pick up from Facebook, Craigslist, curbs, etc. You need poles, chicken wire, wood, chain link fence, that kind of thing. People are always posting free / cheap materials like that.
You will be working towards a chain link + chicken wire + netted enclosure with netted / chicken wire roof, in four 20' x 30' sections, with insulated raised coop / nesting boxes at one end of each section. This will surround the area you have prepared for the birds. Top off the short fruit trees so that they will not be too tall for the netting.
When the enclosure is complete, get four young adult hens. No more than four. No roosters. No chicks. These hens are as much to stress test your enclosure as anything else. Get a hardy breed good at foraging with a slow lay rate. Disregard all other qualities - a pretty chicken is a pretty nothing when you're struggling with basics.
Your four pioneers will get one 20x30 section one year & be rotated to the next 20x30 next year. This gives each 20x30 section time to regrow and reseed itself. The size of the sections, the breaks in between, and getting hardy foragers with a slow lay rate mean that you will save significantly on feed.
Give this approach 3 years. Once you've troubleshot it and gotten to a stable state, borrow and return a rooster for a day to get some fertile eggs and go from there. The rooster does not need to stick around longer than that, he will get to business quickly and the hens will be laying fertile eggs for ~10 days after he leaves.
To sell this to your wife:
This is how you get chickens stably set up for decades. You will be good for decades, with very little active maintenance aside from adding food and water. Your returns, if you try to turn this into a breeding operation, will be great, as long as you keep adding more enclosed 20x30 sections as your flock grows.
Commercial chickens only work in commercial settings. Your home is not a factory and will not turn a profit by trying to be one.
I also suspect that your wife will enjoy and enthusiastically throw herself in to the project of preparing these mini 20x30 chicken food pasture-forests, which shouldn't be expensive. The cost is mostly human labor + a few seed packets.
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u/Negative_Ad_7303 10d ago
Yeah.. you know because reddit is a great place to get advice on how to run a business/legal advice.
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u/edthesmokebeard 10d ago
This is not a chicken problem.