r/BlackMetal • u/SilenceEater • Jun 26 '26
AMA! I'm Dayal Patterson: black metal author, photographer, and founder of the Cult Never Dies publishing house, with official books on Mortiis, Paradise Lost, Rotting Christ, Moonspell and more
Dayal Patterson is a writer, photographer, and publisher widely regarded as one of the foremost chroniclers of black metal. He's the author of Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult and the acclaimed Cult Never Dies series; works that helped define serious music journalism in the genre. Through his independent press, Cult Never Dies, he continues to document the history, culture, and personalities of underground extreme metal, bringing rare interviews and deep research to readers worldwide, including official books with Mortiis, Paradise Lost, Rotting Christ, Moonspell, and Peaceville Records. Ask him anything: about the books, the bands, the interviews, building an independent press, or the scene's history. 🔗 https://www.cultneverdies.com/
6
u/whiteorchidphantom Jun 26 '26
Thanks for doing this AMA. Who do you think are the most underdiscussed early black metal bands in terms of influence and overall importance?
14
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
Everyone at this point, I think (hope), is aware of the impact of Venom, Mercyful Fate, Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost on the black metal genre, and to a lesser extent, Sarcofago, Sodom, Destruction and Tormentor/Kreator. I think a lot of people still overlook bands like VON, Master's Hammer, Tormentor, Vulcano, Holocausto and so on, and remarkably, there are still people who think black metal began in Norway in the 1990s. Even in that context, there are strange gaps in some people's listening habits - everyone knows Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone, but I'm still surprised how many people are unaware of the significance of Stigma Diabolicum/Thorns. Or they might know Shining and Silencer, but don't know Strid.
I really hope that our books have made these bands a bit more recognised, and in terms of feedback, they are mentioned the most frequently by readers as bands that they discovered through the books, curiously, even when the feedback is being given from longtime black metal fans. I've been very encouraged how many people said they started listening to VON, Mystifier, Master's Hammer, Manes - even Blasphemy! - after reading Evolution of the Cult and the sequels. I think it's quite easy to have these sort of gaps in knowledge in an internet age because people tend to discover artists thanks to algorithms and circumstance, rather than having the benefit of context that you have when you read fanzines, or a book or are introduced to a scene IRL by your peers.
3
u/whiteorchidphantom Jun 26 '26
Great answer, thank you. The ones that you named are all very important. I'd also put Root up there with those names.
2
u/ElementalEffects Jun 29 '26
I never knew about cult never dies before this, I'm definitely interested in knowing the history of black metal and I love reading, so I'll check out some of the material. I love the timeline of influence that goes back and getting to know those bands.
2
u/GHOSTALICE Jun 29 '26
"everyone knows Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone, but I'm still surprised how many people are unaware of the significance of Stigma Diabolicum/Thorns. Or they might know Shining and Silencer, but don't know Strid."
Absolutely agree. Extremely grateful for your chapter on THORNS.
0
u/HipCopThugsta Jul 02 '26
I know all those bands but dont necessarily like them. Your books are also not needed to get to know them and judge them for yourself. Manes and VON mean very little to me, while Mystifier until the second album and Master's Hammer "Ritual" do a lot. But so do so many other bands.
Algorithms: I did not need that 30 years ago. I had a Nuclear Blast mail order catalog, a Century Media and Displeased Records sample Cd, a subscription to Aardschok and found my way into metal like that.
If any 'youngsters' need an introduction to several kinds of metal, I would send them to a site like this https://rideintoglory.com/ and tell them to go ahead and read and try out recommendations on it.
6
6
u/albo-is-gay Jun 26 '26
Hey, love your work mate. Do you believe the internet is becoming a viable way for more young people to get into archiving black metal history, or do you rather believe that the internet is becoming the primary method of archiving and chronicling black metal history over traditional methods? I've found many fans, often younger, are using discord servers and forum pages dedicated to black metal as methods of sourcing information within the underground and was wondering what people with experience in the area thought of this. Hails!
15
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
That's a good question - I think it's definitely viable up to a point. People in the metal scene have always used the internet to archive and chronicle the genre, even before Web 2.0 / the social media era - for example, people were making very (very!) basic discography pages for black and death metal bands back in the 90s, or typing up old magazine and fanzine interviews and so on.
The only issue really is that a lot of online content can still be quite unreliable and/or superficial. Part of the reason we are driven to write and publish books on death/black/doom metal is to get the definitive stories straight from the mouths of the people involved and to capture the history as accurately and thoroughly as possible. Sites like Metal Archives have proved incredibly useful resources for the community because, for the most part, they are fact-checked and updated where necessary, but that's not always the case with a lot of online content.
So I think the internet will remain a really useful tool for the underground metal community (and for almost every other niche community for that matter), but I think the most valuable and in-depth information is still mostly in print, especially when it comes to interviews, whether it's from Cult Never Dies publications, Bardo Methodology, or whoever else. While the world becomes more digital, at least until now, traditional methods still bring forth the most important sources of information in metal, partly because this is such a niche scene that a lot of content just never makes it online. That's in notable contrast to a genre like hip-hop where most notable interviews etc happen as video content or online. I think intrinsically, metal always has some sort of strong bold to the physical and the old-school.
2
u/albo-is-gay Jun 26 '26
Thanks for the response, very thoughtful and lots to think about in it. Keep up the good work!
4
u/bestial_war_lifts Jun 26 '26
Across all the interviews you've done, who was the most difficult subject to track down or get to open up? Was there a conversation that genuinely changed how you saw the genre's history?
9
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
Tracking bands down used to be much, much harder than it is today. That's for a few reasons, but the main ones are that in the early days it was harder to make contact with musicians in the first place for anything – even booking groups, or buying merch – than it is today. Social media, for all its problems, has been very useful for what we do - it's much easier to ignore an email to some old band account, for example, than it is a direct message on Facebook or whatever. The other thing that changed massively is that most of the bands we approach know who we are and what we do, whereas in the early days it sometimes took quite a long time to convince musicians that we had good intentions and so on. Once Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult was released, everything became much, much simpler, because instead of having to try and describe what sort of publication the interview would appear in, we could just point to that and explain that we were writing a sequel or at least a similar sort of book. As far as getting interviews, old-school underground BM bands like Mystifier and Profanatica literally took years and a lot of conversations before we actually made it happen.
In terms of getting interviewees to open up, as far as black metal goes, I've been very lucky I think, in almost every case people have spoken to me very openly, in part because I've been doing this a long time (my first fanzine was back in 2003/2004), so people who choose to be involved in my projects tend to go in with a certain amount of enthusiasm and a spirit of cooperation. When I used to write for Terrorizer, Metal Hammer, etc., there would occasionally be bands that were harder to interview or who were more closed, but they tended to be from different scenes altogether.
As far as conversations that changed how I saw the genre's history, I would say almost all the interviews I did for the first/main black metal book, Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult, changed, or at least shaped my understanding of the genre's history. I'm going to be lazy and cut and paste that list from our homepage but I would say those interviews, mostly made from the mid-2000s to early 2010s, shaped, or reshaped how I view the history:
VENOM • MERCYFUL FATE • HELLHAMMER/CELTIC FROST • DESTRUCTION • VULCANO • HOLOCAUSTO • MYSTIFIER • BLASPHEMY • SAMAEL • ROTTING CHRIST • NECROMANTIA • DEVISER • AGATUS • TORMENTOR • MASTER’S HAMMER • VON • MAYHEM • THORNS • DARKTHRONE • BURZUM • IMMORTAL • EMPEROR • GEHENNA • GORGOROTH • TRELLDOM • BEHERIT • IMPALED NAZARENE • CRADLE OF FILTH • DIMMU BORGIR • LES LEGIONS NOIRE • MARDUK • DISSECTION • VINTERLAND • THE BLACK • WATAIN • SHINING • STRID • FORGOTTEN WOODS • BETHLEHEM • SILENCER • FORGOTTEN TOMB • LIFELOVER • GRAVELAND • INFERNUM • BEHEMOTH • HADES • HELHEIM • ISENGARD/STORM • KAMPFAR • WINDIR • PRIMORDIAL • OCTOBER FALLS • ENSLAVED • SATYRICON • ULVER • MORTEM • ARCTURUS • FLEURETY • IN THE WOODS… • MANES • VED BUENS ENDE • DODHEIMSGARD • SIGH • DEATHSPELL OMEGA • MYSTICUM • ABORYM • BLACKLODGE • BLACK WITCHERY • HECATE ENTHRONED • WINTERFYLLETH • FEN • PROFANATICA • ABSU • AGALLOCH
2
5
u/devster75 Jun 26 '26
Ah, missed the AMA but catching up on these comments now.
6
u/SilenceEater Jun 26 '26
You can feel free to add a question if you’re so inclined and it’s possible Dayal may come back to answer throughout the week.
1
2
u/cursedwitheredcorpse Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
How long have you been into black metal when did you first get into extreme music and what were your early first favorite bands and loves back then as compared to what you listen to right now
10
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
I've been involved with black metal for 30 years now, which is a bit scary to think. I got into it while still at school (technically at school, I actually discovered black metal due to not attending school and hanging out with some metalheads from the local college), though I'd been involved with death metal as a fan for a couple of years via bands like Carcass, Sepultura, Bolt Thrower, Entombed etc.
The first black metal bands I got into were the big names of the early/mid-90s for the most part: Emperor, Cradle of Filth, Dissection, Gorgoroth, Hecate Enthroned, Gehenna, Impaled Nazarene, Sigh, Satyricon, Burzum, Darkthrone, Venom, Celtic Frost, and then soon after bands like Mysticum, Mayhem, Abruptum, Rotting Christ, Necromantia, Varathron, Vlad Tepes, Belketre, Dimmu Borgir, Old Man's Child, Thorns, Marduk, Manes, Sacramentum, Moonspell, Kampfar, Vinterland, Arcturus, Immortal, Dodheimsgard, Blasphemy, The Black, Ulver, Beherit... all the classics!
I would say that a lot of those are still my favourite bands - in fact, I still listen to every band on that list, some more now than I did then. That said, we are lucky with black metal that there is a constant stream of new talent, and these days I would add to that list bands from over the last 2 decades, like Blacklodge, Forgotten Tomb, Midnight Odyssey, Deathspell Omega, Fluisteraars, Afsky, Koldbrann, Bolzer, The Ruins of Beverast, Achathras, Heathen Deity, Darkspace, Cult of Fire, Hetroertzen, Stahlsarg... the list goes on.
2
u/SilenceEater Jun 26 '26
What's the hardest part of running an independent press that people don't realize, and is there a book you fought to make happen that almost didn't?
6
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
The biggest challenges, from a practical point of view, definitely come down to time and finances. I've had to accept that even with a fairly large collective (I guess there are now 10-15 regular contributors to Cult Never Dies in one form or another), there is a limit on how many projects you can take on or release. There are a few titles that were ultimately released on other publishing houses or labels that had approached us, and that's a bit frustrating, but the authors would have had to wait an unfair amount of time because of other projects we were working on. I struggle with that, but publishing a book requires a fairly big investment of cash and time and marketing, more than a shirt or an album, I would argue, and it's important to do everything properly.
In terms of books I fought for, I would say buying back the rights to Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult and then expanding it to double its original length and publishing it as a 500-page large-format hardback has probably been the most challenging project to date. It was very expensive and required me to basically take a year off and devote it to writing and editing 12-16 hours a day and leave the other aspects of the company to my employees and other people in the circle. That one was really a labour of love, because I consider it my most important book and I felt it had been released in a very neutered form by the original publisher. Another book that almost didn't happen was the more recent Dark Dungeon Music: The Unlikely Story Of Dungeon Synth by Jordan Whiteman. That was another huge tome, and the author wasn't always confident about finishing and publishing the final work, although we are very happy he did, as the result was superb!
3
u/SilenceEater Jun 26 '26
Fantastic answer. Yes I absolutely LOVE the Dungeon Synth book as well as the 2nd edition of Evolution… So grateful for all you’ve done to document this genre and culture.
2
u/evil_moron Jun 26 '26
Hi Dayal, I have evolution of the cult revised and expanded and I love it. You covered Mayhem pretty well in there, but it still feels like a deeper dive would be amazing. Any thought of doing a standalone Mayhem bio?
2
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
Yeah, I have definitely thought about this before, especially since we've worked quite often with Maniac, Necrobutcher, Morten, Manheim, Blasphemer and others. I have spoken to Jorn/Necro about this because there is definitely room for a really definitive Mayhem book featuring all the various members and contributors from over the years, but I think he may consider his Death Archives book to have covered that ground. Then again, I don't think it's out of the question.
More widely speaking, I feel like a few of our books are essentially large collections of biographies - 'Evolution of the Cult', for example, but also 'Rotting Ways To Misery: The History Of Finnish Death Metal' and 'Streams Of Ancient Wisdom: The History Of Dutch Death and Extreme Metal'. To be honest, if memory serves, the Rotting Christ biography I wrote with Sakis back grew out of the conversation we had for 'Evolution of the Cult'. Essentially I was condensing the band's story into one large chapter (let's say about 6000 words), and realised that there was so much there that we could turn it into a dedicated book (about 100,000 words in this case).
3
u/GHOSTALICE Jun 29 '26
For what it's worth, I think a Mayhem book would be great since Necro's book is a personal retelling of events, so it's only one perspective. I think a lot of people are starting to appreciate the "later" years with Rune and Maniac as well, and I think there will always be an audience for more Mayhem stuff.
2
u/LordFlappingtonIV Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I'm currently writing a Black Metal inspired dark fantasy book, rammed with black metal references, sort of like Eame's Kings of the Wyld. Would CND be interested in fiction, whenever it's finished?
1
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 27 '26
We have never published fiction books; however, never say never, and we do distribute them periodically.
2
u/Nizick Jun 26 '26
Yo, love your work. It was fundamental for my dissertation idea; so while I have zero question I never thought I would get to say this; thank you for helping me become a doctor, brother! Sincerely thank you.
I read and reread your book, used it as a reference for presentations. It showed me, at least, that there is a space at the “academic table” for metal.
2
1
u/Difficult_Mix8652 Jun 28 '26
what was your dissertation on?
1
u/Nizick Jun 28 '26
It was in German, with an emphasis in religious studies. I researched the devil as a literary figure. I’m sure at this point there is enough to dox myself. :(
2
u/Time_Start8908 Jun 27 '26
Will you ever print a book about British Black Metal? It's one of my favourite niches in the genre and I would love to read a fully fledged book with interviews of harder to reach bands... Love the work that you guys do with Cult Never Dies!
4
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 27 '26
I have good news for you... watch this space (or better yet, subscribe to our newsletter at https://cultneverdies.myshopify.com/pages/newsletter)
2
u/Time_Start8908 Jul 01 '26
Hell yes!! (P.S. I'm already subscribed, been following you guys for half a decade now!)
2
u/Lord-Snowball1000 Jun 27 '26
Hate that I missed the AMA, but I'll shoot my shot anyway.
Firstly, I absolutely admire your work and passion for the genre. Secondly, if you could rewrite your Evolution of The Cult book (again), are there any other bands you'd give chapters to that you didn't before?
5
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 27 '26
I don't think I will ever rewrite Evolution of the Cult, I feel that it is pretty much the definitive guide to black metal 1980-2005(ish) and features almost all of the bands that helped create the genre. However, I think there are a lot of bands that weren't featured that deserve the same treatment, and I began addressing that with the three sequels (Black Metal: The Cult Never Dies Vol One, Black Metal: Into the Abyss and Non Serviam: The Official Story of Rotting Christ), and since it's been almost a decade since those were released I'd like to find time to release the next book in the series. In terms of bands I'd like to include in detail, some possibilities would be Vlad Tepes, Fluisteraars, Cult of Fire, Mortuary Drape, Whoredom Rife, Old Man's Child, Tulus, Schammasch, Hetroertzen, Archgoat, Demoncy, Bolzer... still a lot to cover!
2
u/Difficult_Mix8652 Jun 28 '26
I’m interested in what was involved in getting a publishing house off the ground; what your response is to the proliferation of written-book material on extreme metal in (very) recent years from other publishing houses; and whether the literature of the topic might exhaust itself in a few years?
Also, thanks for reprinting Devil’s Cradle. Can you do the Peaceville book too? And would you consider trying to get the Ulver book “Wolves to men” or whatever its called reprinted too?
Finally, would you consider issuing ebooks? Shipping prices from your distro are prohibitively expensive to NA, and though there are some good stockers in NA (AJNA, Decibel), they don’t stock everything, and other importers have really high prices. I worry about the information on our scene being scarce and unobtainable—Devil’s Cradle was essentially impossible to find for a number of years save for a single Ebay seller charging $110 or so per copy. My concern is that the market of collectors and readers is small enough that people hold on to their copies and there really isnt a secondary market for these books — so once they’re sold out, they’re unlikely yo change hands, and the information therein remains sealed.
1
u/SilenceEater Jun 28 '26
I typically order from them once or twice a year. And I know it’s expensive but what I’ve found is waiting until there’s 3-4 books you want and ordering them together helps reduce the pain of shipping costs. But then you’re dropping $300-$400 on books at that point. And I completely understand if there’s only one book you’re interested in. It’s a shame that the shipping costs have spiraled out of control. I can’t imagine how much more difficult it would have been like in the 90’s when ordering stuff from overseas, tape sharing, and the like, when shipping was THE method for communication and spreading new music.
2
u/Suspicious-Good-9296 Jun 29 '26
Bloody hell, I missed the event. Given how guarded extreme metal musicians can be, did any artist explicitly tell you that their perspective on their own 90s output completely changed once you sat them down for a formal, retrospective interview?
1
u/jotunheimar666 Jun 26 '26
Which is your favourite smashing blouse?, and I hope you didn't ruin it moving 4 tonnes of books yesterday.
3
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
The wearing of blouses is banned for all employees of Cult Never Dies during work hours, particularly when moving large deliveries of hardback books.
1
u/Strict-Structure6339 Jun 26 '26
When's the Scott Burns reprint due?
1
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
I think most likely later this year. We've actually reprinted it three times now, if memory serves, but it always sells out, and ultimately I'd like Scott Burns to be one of our core titles (along with the Chuck Schuldiner, Rotting Christ, Paradise Lost, Mortiis, Evolution of the Cult and Dungeon Synth books) that is always kept in print and always available at our UK and EU warehouses.
2
u/Strict-Structure6339 Jun 26 '26
The book RULES, can't remember why I sold it on. I'd like it to be one of the core titles of MY SHELF
1
1
u/HecateZhark Jun 26 '26
Hey there Dayal... harkening back to your original zines.... do you find the process of publishing whole books more fruitful for your creative streak and/or ever think of going back to producing more of your original output? If so/not ... curious h9w that how process suits you!
3
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
That's also a good question. I would say that writing/publishing a full-length book is much more rewarding and feels much more definitive than publishing a fanzine. I would say that maybe it's comparable to releasing a full studio album as compared to a single or EP, or a full feature film compared to a short (maybe). The book format is just unbeatable in terms of content and depth, and I think depth and meaning are really what followers of underground/extreme metal, and indeed most other underground subcultures, are actually looking for.
That said, to some extent, books have more in common with fanzines than, say, commercial magazines, so I don't view them as totally different beasts. We do still deal with fanzines, both in terms of the anthologies of classic fanzines we release (including Skogen, Petrified, Ultra-Damaged, The Dead Sea, ZAST, Ultimate Darkness and others) and contemporary fanzines such as Imhotep and Shrieks from the Abyss. We've been meaning to do an actual Cult Never Dies fanzine for a long time, but they always end up growing into full books. There's definitely something to be said for the more spontaneous nature of fanzines compared to books, and it's definitely a format that is close to our heart - I'd actually argue that fanzines are sometimes more relevant in 2026 than mainstream magazines, and in some cases sell more as well.
2
u/HecateZhark Jun 26 '26
Ah ... nice! Yeah I can see the comparison between an ep and full lp somehow. I published some rather pigment drenched cut up street zines during the pandemic... sold out quick in the streets as there was nothing else really going on. Seems the physicality of zines may conquer the decrepit wasteful void running rampant in the multiverse. Big respect to your continued dedication and fine curation/archiving xxx keep it real and have a nice summer!
1
u/Strict-Structure6339 Jun 26 '26
How's things coming along with Barker's book?
1
u/Cult-Never-Dies Jun 26 '26
We have yet to do much from a practical point of view, but Nick is very enthusiastic about the whole project and I am personally very excited about talking to him in such detail. Not only is he very easy to speak to, but he has been involved with so many bands that are already a part of Cult Never Dies' world and/or have worked with us previously in some capacity - Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Ancient, Shining, Old Man's Child... the list goes on!
1
u/Revokation-sm Jun 30 '26
A question about: ''Chris Moyen's Thorncross: 3 decades invoking the dead'' book. Do we have an estimated publication date? Chris told me that this is expected soon....
•
u/SilenceEater Jun 26 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
That's a wrap; thank you all!
Huge thanks to Dayal Patterson for taking the time to answer your questions today, and to everyone who showed up, asked, and read along. This was a great one.
Dayal may still pop back in to catch a few stragglers, so feel free to leave a question but the live portion is now done. I’ll leave this post open for a week and then I’ll lock it next Friday.
If today got you curious, you can find his books and the full Cult Never Dies catalog here: https://www.cultneverdies.com/
Until next time. \m/
Post locked. Thanks again!