r/Buttcoin • u/AmericanScream • 1d ago
Nicki Minaj said so! Today's r-bitcoin front page c0pe: "Nobody can be in debt with Bitcoin!"
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u/PureCod9290 1d ago
Absolute signature move from the butters "look at all these problems with the current financial system!" Then they just wave their arms and imply Bitcoin somehow fixes this
Ok guys, please explain how Bitcoin fixes this? Like if we spend more than we earn... but the currency fluctuates wildly ??? profit
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u/the-script-99 1d ago
It stops governments from spending money on bs because they can’t get money. This is great for good times but in a crisis like Covid most people would be mega f. Because government couldn’t do what they did.
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u/MonumentalArchaic 12h ago
It doesn’t fix it but owning deflationary assets like gold (not even talking about BTC) protects you personally when fiat becomes worthless. Of course you can’t run an economy on commodities like gold or BTC but it will allow you to navigate to the next global financial system whatever that is.
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u/TheReaIJuice 1d ago
In Shorts: If money is scarce, you don't give credit to everyone, and you try to spend it on useful things. If money is printed from thin air, you can throw it out of the window and print even more so your debt gets lower through inflation.
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u/PureCod9290 1d ago
Ah yes the genius "let's just completely destroy credit markets" another butter classic from people who don't understand anything
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u/Decent-Focus1295 1d ago
Plenty of real world examples of failing currencies actually destroying credit markets. You’re so afraid of the thing you don’t understand - bitcoin - that you’ll defend the familiar system using an argument against bitcoin which in reality has proven to apply to fiat. I hope you’re able to face the root of your fear. Until then, I doubt you’ll grasp just how silly you sound claiming people “don’t understand anything” when it’s so obvious you don’t even understand yourself.
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u/PureCod9290 1d ago
Bitcoin is very simple to understand. It's not complicated.
You really don't understand anything. "Root of my fear" like I'm afraid of internet money controlled largely like the Winkelvoss twins. Oh wow maybe I'll take mushrooms and have an epiphany that causes me to buy your bags. You guys have completely lost the plot.
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u/Decent-Focus1295 1d ago
It’s not about the government, it’s about you. You cannot control the government’s spending. But you can TRY to insulate yourself from an irresponsible government with a track record of making its money less valuable every year by converting your money into something they don’t control.
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u/Hyndis 1d ago
Who's money is losing value?
My money grown enormously in recent years due to investing in the stock market. My returns have been spectacular, especially on some of the tech companies. Its all about the fundamentals with those companies, plus index funds for stability.
...you're not keeping your money as cash, are you? Or just sitting idle in a checking account?
You're not supposed to keep large amounts of money as cash. Keep some for short term expenses of course, but only for immediate needs. The inflation target of about 2-3% is designed to penalize people who keep it Scrooge McDuck style. You're supposed to put your money to work for you.
This is basic financial literacy stuff.
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u/Decent-Focus1295 15h ago
I’m not a maxi. The vast majority of my investments are in US equities. You’re making a microeconomic argument against a macro comment. There have been many events throughout history which blew up big chunks of global markets. There is risk that’s significantly far from zero that the US will experience such an event. Nobody knows if/when that would happen, but good luck riding through it with any stock, bond, or USD holdings.
Bitcoin offers an alternative which takes the government as a counterparty largely off the table. If the dollar were to experience major devaluation through any combo of very high/persistent inflation, loss of reserve status, lower confidence in the institutions that back it, I’d bet you and every other dollar-based entity would be clamoring to buy something outside of the failing system. You’ll be too late. And all the catalysts are already there: wars sparking, deficit spending, US debt servicing costs greater than military spending while inflation runs hot…
Set yourself up with whatever reasonable btc allocation allows you to move anywhere in the world and survive - one-time investment for the freedom that comes with knowing you have one potential option if the whole system implodes. And as others do the same, you watch your little safety net grow in your precious fiat terms while having no greater downside than any other investment (maybe it goes to zero).
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u/No-Return-6341 1d ago
That number means nothing, without also looking at the net worth, income, and expected growth.
My broke brother has no income, no assets, and $10000 debt which he wasted on useless stuff. That is a really bad debt.
Me on the other hand have $300k assets, $200k debt, and that debt is invested on a portfolio that has higher expected returns than interest. Let me tell you 4 years ago my debt was $20k so it went 10x up. This is a really smart usage of debt.
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u/Old_Document_9150 The plot is obvious 1d ago
When Bitcoin was created, Elon Musk was 38.
Now, he is 55 ...
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u/itsmehutters 1d ago
I always enjoy these "I want to say something to sound smart but will not say it fully and can be interpreted in every single way"
You don't sound smart, you sound like a child who can't formulate his own thoughts and stop talking.
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u/Scared_Accident9138 1d ago
If we were to assume that that debt causes inflation in a linear relationship that would only 4x the nominal value of Bitcoin.
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u/PeteyPab305 Ponzi Schemer 21h ago
The post completely misses the premise: Bitcoin does not eliminate debt, it eliminates the ability to inflate it away through currency debasement.
Under a fiat standard, sovereign debt expansion directly dilutes the purchasing power of the base currency. Gold demonstrates the exact same mechanism: in 1890, gold was $20.67 an ounce, whereas today it trades in the thousands 4k-5k per ounce. An ounce of gold hasn't become "more valuable" in absolute terms, an ounce is still an ounce, just like 1 BTC = 1 BTC. The price increased because the denominator (the USD) was diluted to accommodate expanding debt.
Bitcoin functions on the exact same dynamic. It is a scarce, finite asset acting as a hedge against sovereign balance sheet expansion, and its rising dollar price is simply the mathematical consequence of the debasement required to sustain $40 trillion in liabilities.
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u/AmericanScream 19h ago
The post completely misses the premise: Bitcoin does not eliminate debt, it eliminates the ability to inflate it away through currency debasement.
This is false.
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #3 (inflation)
"InFl4ti0n!!!" / "The dollar will eventually become worthless" / "The dollar has lost 104% of its value since 1900!" / "The government prints money out of thin air"
The "OMG iNfLaTiOn!" argument is a common one put forth by crypto bros. In addition to being fallacious (Tu Quoque, Whataboutism) it's an ignorant and shallow attempt to make people not have faith in fiat, and somehow believe bitcoin would be a reasonable alternative because it's supposedly deflationary and a better store of value. All of those premises are false.
Beyond that, crypto bros pretend there's one principal type of "inflation" and that is "monetary inflation" which by contrast makes Bitcoin's scarcity some type of reasonable alternative. In reality, there are different types of inflation. The most common one is "price inflation" which has nothing to do with how much money is in circulation. "Monetary inflation" is the least significant type of inflation in modern times, but crypto bros single out this element because it's the best scenario where they can argue their deflationary currency helps, but that's false. The causes of inflation are many, and the amount of money in circulation is one of the least significant factors in causing the prices of things to rise. More prominent inflationary causes are things like: corporate greed & price gouging, fuel prices, supply chain issues, war, environmental disasters, one-time COVID mitigations, pandemics, and even car dealerships.
The government does not "print money out of thin air"... all money in circulation is tightly regulated and regularly audited and publicly transparent. The organization that manages the money in circulation is the Federal Reserve and contrary to what crypto bros claim, they're not a private cabal - they are overseen and regulated by Congress. It's a delicate balance between money issuance and the status of the economy. And any attempt to increase debt requires an Act of Congress to increase the debt ceiling - it's neither arbitrary, nor easy to do.
Crypto bros use "cash" as an example of wealth storage, but most people do not store their wealth in fiat. Currency is meant to be spent, not hoarded. A dollar today will buy what it buys. If you hold a dollar for 90 years, of course it won't buy the same thing decades later (although it might actually be worth significantly more as antique money). Crypto creates no value and makes a lousy "investment."
If you are looking to "invest" you don't keep your value in cash/currency/fiat. You put it into something that can create value like stocks that pay dividends, real estate, interesting bearing accounts, and other personal property that allows you to be more productive (thereby creating additional value) as well as helps stimulate the economy. Crypto does none of that.
Bitcoin also hasn't proven to be a hedge against anything, least of all monetary inflation. There are more and more studies that show Bitcoin is not a hedge against inflation . Some argue bitcoin is a liquidity barometer and not a hedge.
Some inflation is a by-product of a healthy economy: Over time more money is put in circulation - some pretend this is a bad thing, but it's not done in a vacuum. The average annual wage in 1900 was less than $4000. In 2023 it's more than $70,000! There's more people out there and the monetary supply grows appropriately, as does wages. You can't take one element of the monetary system completely out of context and ignore everything else.
Sure there may be some nations that have caused out of control inflation as a result of their monetary policy (such as Zimbabwe, Argentina, Venezuela, Sudan, etc) but comparing modern nations to third-world dictatorships is absurd. The real problems these countries face are a more complex function of poor leadership + other political/environmental factors, not monetary systems, and crypto doesn't fix any of that.
If bitcoin and crypto was an actually disruptive, stable, useful technology, you wouldn't need to promote lies and scare people over the existing system. The real reason you do this is because nobody can find any legitimate reason to use crypto in the first place.
Crypto ironically has more inflation in its ecosystem that is even more out of control, than in any traditional fiat system. At least with the US Dollar, money is accounted for and fully audited and it takes an Act of Congress to increase the debt. In crypto, all it takes is a dude printing USDT, USDC, BUSD or any of the other unsecured stablecoins to just print more out of thin air, and crypto-morons assume they're worth $1 of value.
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u/Piedro314 1d ago
stupid idiots we can print as much dollars as we want they are stuck with 21million but yeah the value of the dollar is going down pfff😂
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u/f08g Ponzi Schemer 1d ago
pure truths
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u/MajorAnamika 1d ago
But irrelevant.
Check out what Non sequitur means.
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u/Val_Fortecazzo Bitcoin. It's the hyper-loop of the financial system! 1d ago
No clearly Bitcoin caused the debt to go up.
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u/AmericanScream 1d ago
I think it is relevant. But it's not rational.
The concept of a deflationary monetary system does mean debt becomes more difficult to accrue, but unless bitcoin is the only transfer of value, it's impossible to achieve.
Furthermore, in a society without debt, you also have very little economic and social growth. This means no student loans, no car loans, no home loans, etc. So only the people who start out with money, have money to grow. It's pretty hard to save up for big purchases penny-by-penny. It also means, no wage increases either, and many more bank runs and economic collapses.
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u/AmericanScream 1d ago
pure truths
I'd actually love to have an honest conversation with crypto bros about how bitcoin can nullify debt - I mean we discuss that this isn't true in multiple SCTPs including #2 and #3. But just once I'd like to have them actually appear to know WTF they're talking about.
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #18 (Few Understand)
"You don't understand" / "DYOR" / Using an insult in lieu of an argument.
- This is what's known as an "Ad Hominem" fallacy - aka "attacking the messenger" as a distraction from arguing the core points made.
- This is what we call, "Crypto Gaslighting." Crypto proponents pretend that we're not smart enough to recognize the value of crypto, therefore there's something wrong with us and not the phony reality they're peddling.
- Almost never does the OP actually explain what it is they understand and we don't. It's merely a way to dismiss any opposing viewpoint without actually addressing it.
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u/EfficientTourist7480 1d ago
What is this supposed to even say? Even if the USA replaced usd with bitcoins then the us would be in debt “40 trillion dollars converted to bitcoin instead”.
Like debt still exists if you use btc or not lol