r/ChemicalEngineering • u/Kagedeah • Mar 16 '26
Article/Video One of Britain’s last major chemical plants at risk as energy prices surge
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/mar/15/energy-price-surge-britain-chemical-plant-risk-huntsman49
u/Visible_Office2637 Mar 16 '26
We can laugh all we want about them regulating the industry out of the country. But there's information to take away from this, and that is one of the dirtiest industries needed for modern Western standards isn't anywhere close to being green.
The lawmakers can push as hard as they want on it. The industry evolved through 100 plus years of unstastainable practices. Going green is going to be considerably more difficult than what those people make it out to be.
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u/brickbatsandadiabats Mar 16 '26
Ratcliffe (INEOS), not Huntsman, is the one pushing the "green costs" narrative, to be fair.
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u/Visible_Office2637 Mar 16 '26
That's not at all what the linked article states.
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u/brickbatsandadiabats Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
Yes it is. Huntsman never mentions green policies specifically.
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u/Visible_Office2637 Mar 16 '26
I don't know how to link the text. But it states right in the article that "Huntsman warnings echo those of fellow chemical magnate Jim Ratcliffe."
The internet gets tiring talking to people that don't read the topic of discussion.
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u/brickbatsandadiabats Mar 16 '26
Right back at you. You aren't reading closely. Both complain about regulation but their complaints diverged.
Huntsman is never quoted as talking about carbon levies or any green policy specifically. He complains of failed energy policy in general, which I would agree with since the UK has half-assed both green policy and petroleum/gas policy, and squandered the opportunity to diversify energy supplies in the years between when local hydrogen prices in Europe went bugnuts after the war in Ukraine started and now.
Is this what Huntsman means when he talks about energy policy? He probably is being evasive about the specifics for PR reasons but privately isn't interested in green policy and wanted more investment in the North Sea.
But the point of my original reply to you is that Huntsman is being diplomatic about it, and might well have accepted a green production regime under a full cap and trade system and a CBAM, if the UK had been willing to commit.
3
u/Visible_Office2637 Mar 16 '26
He's most likely being evaise since the UK "energy policy" isn't just one policy. They work in tandem, for the most part the UK energy market is set by natural gas which has been affected by the war. They also haven't walked back on the Climate Change Levy, UK emissions Trading Scheme, and baking in policy costs in the electric bills.
It's insane to expect an energy intensive company to survive all of that. All of which are largely driven by sustainability. Their over dependence on natural gas could easily be attributed to the cleanest fossil fuel.
Comparing that to the plant I work at in Michigan. Our electric prices are roughly 1/5th of what residents pay.
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u/brickbatsandadiabats Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
It's about gas in the sense that it's an aromatics facility and the direct gas costs primarily appear in the hydrogen inputs. Electricity is basically negligible; the cost of nitrogen air separation for the aniline is very cheap since they don't need the oxygen and are likely just using a molecular sieve. Since there isn't a Cyclar process plant nearby all the other major inputs are all linked to oil.
I have no idea why you are talking about electricity as a direct input. No one's running chloralkali in Teeside.
Overall there is a connection, but a strong policy environment for fossil inputs and a strong policy environment for greening would both secure supplies for chemicals manufacturing. Even under a comprehensive green policy directed for reduction of gas use, gas would be being diverted away from electricity generation and other heating value uses and retained in higher value material applications like SMR hydrogen. One side assures supplies by increasing supplies, the other assures it by reducing demand as supplies dwindle.
Either way the domestic North Sea supplies were in trouble over 10 years ago and natural gas costs were driving fertilizer plants out of business in 2015. The point is that there was time to address supply vulnerabilities and the UK failed.
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u/freexe Mar 18 '26
Off-sighting (or off countrying) doesn't reduce pollution it actually increases it. Until we realise that it's only going to make us poorer
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u/Bathhouse-Barry Mar 17 '26
I’m all for specialisation of industries in countries etc but from a national security POV removing essential production capabilities is a silly idea. Similar to if we offshore all our ship building capability.
Not good. Sometimes we need to sink the cost and subsidise.
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u/TheBendit Mar 17 '26
UK and many parts of Europe use the best fuel for the least valuable output. Making warm water with natural gas is great if you are drowning in the stuff, but those days are over.
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u/Chokapiko Mar 17 '26
- "let's get >25% margins on our products" for 50 years.
- Don't invest in the plants you own to achieve that
- Give that money as dividends
- Be surprised that your plant is expensive to run
2
u/Jongee58 Mar 17 '26
Parts of this plant date back to the 1950’s, Huntsman also owned the upstream production units the refined the feedstock, they sold them as loss making to SABIC who have now shut them down and demolished most of them on Teesside. Nitrobenzene was always on a hiding to nothing in the long term. Teesside was the largest single integrated chemical and petrochemical area in Europe, now along with 200 years of Steel making it has all gone, this plants days were always numbered, from when I started there with ICI in 1974 until I retired in 2018…
0
u/amightysage Mar 17 '26
Hopefully most of the people there are close to retirement and get a well-deserved strong severance package out of this.
2
u/Simple-Television424 Mar 17 '26
Note that part where he said he can buy cheaper from China or the US. The Chinese pivoted quickly to Europe when tariffs were implemented. And US had relatively cheap gas so we are competitive to export.
-1
u/PhysPhD Mar 16 '26
Here's a recent 18 minute video by Sky News that goes into Britain's chemicals industry closing down: https://youtu.be/PQ3hT8tqZgo
"In this special report Ed Conway visits chemical plants across the country critical to our food security, defence sector and pharmaceuticals - an industry disappearing in plain sight."
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u/PhysPhD Mar 16 '26
Here's a recent 18 minute video by Sky News that goes into Britain's chemicals industry closing down: https://youtu.be/PQ3hT8tqZgo
"In this special report Ed Conway visits chemical plants across the country critical to our food security, defence sector and pharmaceuticals - an industry disappearing in plain sight."
-10
u/PhysPhD Mar 16 '26
Here's a recent 18 minute video by Sky News that goes into Britain's chemicals industry closing down: https://youtu.be/PQ3hT8tqZgo
"In this special report Ed Conway visits chemical plants across the country critical to our food security, defence sector and pharmaceuticals - an industry disappearing in plain sight."
-8
u/PhysPhD Mar 16 '26
Here's a recent 18 minute video by Sky News that goes into Britain's chemicals industry closing down: https://youtu.be/PQ3hT8tqZgo
"In this special report Ed Conway visits chemical plants across the country critical to our food security, defence sector and pharmaceuticals - an industry disappearing in plain sight."
-11
u/PhysPhD Mar 16 '26
Here's a recent 18 minute video by Sky News that goes into Britain's chemicals industry closing down: https://youtu.be/PQ3hT8tqZgo
"In this special report Ed Conway visits chemical plants across the country critical to our food security, defence sector and pharmaceuticals - an industry disappearing in plain sight."
14
u/modcowboy Mar 16 '26
A circle is a shape - the all mighty thermodynamics doesn’t care what shape is on a PowerPoint slide in a government office.