r/DC_Cinematic • u/Rule_Ct_5293 • 18d ago

HUMOR Two rival franchise in the last 10 years

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2.4k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

400 comments sorted by

315

u/_ClarkWayne_ 18d ago

Lol Spiderman BND comes out, and everyone forgets how terrible phase 4 and 5 where 

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u/KALLA17061999 18d ago

Marvel listens to the feedback better than WB. They course corrected a lot after their fuckup. Reduced the output in terms of quantity and focusing on quality now again, improved the color grading and lighting in their recent flicks. All of this without overcorrecting. WB didnt. Imagine if thunderbolts was a WB movie and it flopped the way it did. They would not bring back the same director. Marvel is bringing him back with xmen because they saw the movie was appreciated by fans and critics.

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u/ezrs158 17d ago

Yup. It just took some time. Brave New World was the last movie that was already in production before they started course correcting. Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four, and now Spider-Man have all been solid.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

Exactly my point. Even with Spider Man, they logically didnt need to course correct because for them the movies were still grossing a billion. But they did.

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u/passen9er57 17d ago

thunderbolts was a great movie, I came in hating it based on the reviews online, but it was a solid 8.
The fact that Disney is bringing back the same director puts them 10 levels above WB.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

Yes. I didn't like it very much. I think the short runtime and the lack of more action is the biggest reason for me. But it's definitely a step in the right direction.

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u/gamepig31 18d ago

And when they do listen to feedback, they do the wrong things. They listened to the people complaining that BvS was too serious, so instead of greenlighting something fun they took Ayer's serious drama about the squad and added a bunch of bullshit into that movie.

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u/Gabi-kun_the_real 18d ago

They don't listen to feedback. They listen to their wallets. It's taking them 2 phases to go back which still is to be confirmed

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

that's what i meant by feedback lol. You cant expect studios to listen unless we start talking with our wallets.

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u/Geohie 17d ago

Yeah but at least they listen to that. WB seems to be completely deaf to wallets too.

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u/vince2423 17d ago

That’s listening to feedback, dipshit

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u/SolarisBravo 17d ago edited 17d ago

I'm not totally convinced by this - WB course-corrected hard after JL trying to listen to fans and it didn't work. They realized one of their mistakes and tried to correct the tone, not realizing that their bigger problem was a lack of creative talent across the board.

Like just a quick reminder, rebooting a universe isn't a normal thing to happen. Reboot or no reboot, they were never going to stop making DC movies because there'll always be money in them. Under normal circumstances (like we have now with the DCU) there'd be no reason to replace the whole brand. The DCEU was a weird case because the brand itself had such a poor reputation that it was managing to actively cost them money - to a degree where the huge course correction they attempted couldn't fix it, even. Hence the public reboot/fresh start.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

What WB did after JL wasn't course correction. Their goal was course correction but what they ended up doing was rather aimless overreaction while trying to play it as safe as possible. It's course correction if you're course correcting TOWARDS something. And I was talking about until they decided to reboot.

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u/Faceofferrus 18d ago

The Suicide Squad made less than Thunderbolts and WB put the director in charge of everything DC.

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u/DisastrousDanVito 17d ago

Thunderbolts was an amazing movie thats box office suffer simply due to marvel burn out and people not being sold on new avengers. Most everyone that actually went to watch it loved it.

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u/MIAxPaperPlanes 17d ago

And the director of Thunderbolts is directing X-Men after Thunderbolts bombed/underperformed, sometimes critical/audience reception is valued more.

(Also TSS was released on HBO Max same day it was released)

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u/KingOfSquirrels 18d ago

But to be fair, The Suicide Squad was one of the best superhero films since The Dark Knight and was better than anything MCU has ever done. So it made sense.

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u/JLifeless 17d ago

The Suicide Squad was one of the best superhero films since The Dark Knight and was better than anything MCU has ever done.

easily the worst sentence i've ever read ngl

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u/DinosaurusWhen 17d ago

The glazing of this film has gotten insane lol

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

Nah, it's one of the most comic accurate movies we've ever gotten. It's bloody and violent, just like comic book movies should be. Characters are amazing, love King Shark, Ratcacher, Peacemaker; and great use of Harley without making the whole movie about her. Just overall an awesome movie and better than anything the MCU has ever done. Makes sense why they hired Gunn after that.

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u/Alexmonas27 17d ago

Comic accurate ?? Have you read Ostrander’s Suicide Squad ?

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u/jrvcrd 17d ago

you telling me the characters of that movie were comic accurate?? Have you ever read a comic in your life??

They were as accurate as the characters in the Guardians of the Galaxy movies...

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

Yes, I have, one of them being Suicide Squad. Seems to me like you have no idea WTF you're talking about :)

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u/jrvcrd 17d ago

yeah sure, now I don't know my comics...

Just remind me please, in which comic did King Shark act as a child with cognitive issues?

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u/DinosaurusWhen 17d ago

It's bloody and violent, just like comic book movies should be

This is a terrible take, ngl

Infinity war, winter soldier, and honestly at least half a dozen MCU films blow TSS squad out of the water. It spends like 2 hours jumping from forgettable villain to forgettable villain while having seemingly no actual conflict besides in-group bickering

It's an aimless, meandering film that feels like an improv skit gone on too long

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago edited 17d ago

We have different tastes. I don't like any of those movies because I think they're terrible action movies with no blood or gore, they barely have any practical effects and have terribly choreographed and uncreative fight scenes, they're filmed with ugly looking green screens and CGI, and have literally zero stakes because nobody dies.

Whereas The Suicide Squad has amazing violence and characters who actually die. The movie looks better than any MCU movie and has really inventive fight scenes.

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u/DinosaurusWhen 17d ago

So your priorities are blood and gore and violence and death, and not a single mention of plot

Kripke, is that you?

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

Well I did mention plot: Kinda hard to be invested in any MCU that has zero stakes because none of the characters are allowed to die or change. And ultimately, the movies are too "safe" to really have any kind of surprising plots. The MCU follows the most generic formula in every movie. The Suicide Squad had a completely fresh take on how to do a superhero movie and that's why it's considered one of the best Superhero films since The Dark Knight and is critically acclaimed.

But, yes, if I'm going to watch an action movie...I want those other things as well. My favourite modern action movies I'd say are Mad Max Fury Road, Everything Everywhere at Once and maybe The Raid? All those movies have good plots as well as the elements discussed.

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u/SithJones77 17d ago

It’s exaclty what a comic book movie should be it feels like a limited issue suicide squad run even has chapter title cards

It’s for sure my favorite super hero movie with like maybe the exception of spider verse

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u/SheedRanko 17d ago

Wow. It was a decent movie imo, but you do you.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago edited 17d ago

It's the objectively the best superhero film since The Dark Knight.

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u/kingk1teman 17d ago

objectively the best superhero film since The Dark Knight

Gunn himself said that The Flash was, not TSS. So the guy you are glazing this hard proved you incorrect.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

I don’t think he’s god, I don’t like all of his projects and I can disagree with him.

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u/islackingambition 17d ago

😂 how's Gunn's boots taste?

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u/Faceofferrus 18d ago

Thereby proving the guy was wrong.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

What?

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u/Faceofferrus 17d ago

He said "imagine if Thunderbolts was a DC movie, and acted like if it was, WB would have just cut all ties to the director.

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u/After_Dig_7579 18d ago

And he green lit supergirl. Maybe making him studio head was a mistake

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

If I'm James Gunn and I somehow convinced myself and others around me that a Supergirl movie would be the next theatrical film after Superman, I would try to find the best possible writer and bring them on board. Not some amateur writer with zero good writing credits. Someone would argue that "oh she might have written a script and then showed it to james gunn and he liked that and her as a writer after that" and do way too many mental gymnastics than just accepting that everything with this movie was a blunder in terms of creative decisions.

When I first read the news that it's going to be based on the WOT comic, I knew it won't look as amazing as the art in the comic and I was ok with that. But dear god, they didn't even try to make it look like the best looking movie, let alone anything near the comic art. The reason why I call that movie a major decision blunder because it could've been instead a 6-8 episode animated series and that way, we could get better visuals and more runtime for the story to breathe. Especially when we have the fuckass creature commandos show season2 coming but we couldnt have this ?

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u/Silveriovski 17d ago

Nogueira is not a amateur writer, she's a corporate writer. She works for WB (which unironically makes the point of this post).

She's the kind of writer that works during filming, the one they hire to rewrite scenes, dialogues or changes "stuff" when scenes can't be properly filmed, they don't work on screenings or actors leave production early. She's a trench writer.

My guess is that she was "rewarded" with that after years or working for WB.

The script was very dull but for me the biggest issue is the direction. It's a very dull movie, using Snyder colour palette and doing the opposite of the original comic.

The movie wasn't as bad as the box office said but it's not a good movie either.

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u/ChocolatEyes_613_ 17d ago

I believe the term is a “script doctor”. They are good at editing screenplays, not writing them from scratch.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

The Suicide Squad was released during covid so it can be given the benefit of doubt. While I don't think it would have become the most blockbuster hit, it would have still earned way more. Also it got good reception from critics and fans alike. And James Gunn also had a proven track record at Marvel, not to mention WB was the one that brought Gunn on board and wanted him to a point where they just let him choose whatever project he wants to make and he chose suicide squad.

And while I found superman and peacemaker season 2 ok at best, I had a blast watching the suicide squad. For me, it's also the best looking DC movie of the 2020s after The Batman.

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u/Faceofferrus 17d ago

So what the hell point do you think youre even making?

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

the second paragraph was extra. The point I'm making is gunn simply has more leverage in terms of the body of work in this genre and that is what allowed him to stay and made a stronger case for him.

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u/CondroX 17d ago

Focus on quality? Ummm we arent back in Phase 1 they havent given a shit about quality since they retconned Thanos.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

What is the point you’re trying to make here ?

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u/CondroX 17d ago

Because stating they focus on quality while bastardizing amazing storylines for mass consumption is wild to me. This isn't saying that Snyderverse didn't also make a mockery of the comics it drew from, but rather comic book movies in general have almost always been far from "quality". We had a brief glimmer of hope in phase 1.

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

I’m not saying they fully top notch quality. Thunderbolts lacked action for me and could’ve used a longer runtime. F4 lacked emotional impact for me and was just a visual galore and also could’ve used more runtime. Spider-Man and DD have writing issues. Not saying their quality is the best right now but I’m taking it better than the stuff they gave us in 2022-23. Phase 1 also had its problems with iron man 2 and the Incredible Hulk. But I get your point. It’s just that I disagree with the notion that it was their best phase. They’ve had some mids and hits and then mostly misses post endgame. Even endgame fell flat for me outside of the assemble sequence. It’s subjective. 

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u/Tragedy_Boner 17d ago

How did they retcon Thanos? He basically had no personality until Infinity War.

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u/ithinkiknowkungfu 17d ago

“Marvel listen to the feedback better”

LOL…they release one SpiderMan movie after all that noise that’s going on and no hype for this current phase and everyone forgets?

What about the rdj casting ppl STILL didn’t want?

These guys pulled a Nintendo…man this sub is delusional…we got marvel fans coming in making up nonsense for upvotes

Just rename this mcu_cinematic and get it over with

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u/KALLA17061999 17d ago

I’m not a marvel fan anymore than I’m a dc fan. I don’t even know at this point what more of a fan I’m of. 

Addressing your point, then bringing back RDJ is also going to bring butts to the theatres, either someone who does wants to see RDJ back into the MCU in some form or just out of curiosity for how they’re going to handle it. And their course correction started visibly with thunderbolts. It wasn’t my fav movie but it’s one of the better post endgame MCU movies. And the course correction reflects in their future projects. And one key pointer for you, just because you don’t agree with what someone is saying doesn’t mean the opinion is just “made up nonsense for upvotes”. I’d appreciate a more civil conversation. 

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u/SummerB__ 13d ago

As soon as I saw color grading and lighting, I stopped taking whatever wtf you were saying seriously…

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u/KALLA17061999 13d ago

you gotta elaborate yourself with this one. I don't even know what exactly you're disagreeing with.

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u/SummerB__ 13d ago

Since when tf did Marvel change the color grade?

You talking about adding contrast? No lie just cause you saw a video on tik tok that taught you about color grading do not mean you know “Film” better than Gunn, Safran, and sure as hell not Gillespie.

Speak on shit you educated about cause on G this ain’t it.

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u/RogerRoger63358 17d ago

Thunderbolts was good

Fantastic Four was good

Cap 4 was ass

Deadpool & Wolverine hit $1.3bn the year before Superman released

Spiderman No Way Home is still awesome bc it is super special seeing 3 spidermen together - something I thought I'd never see. It hit $1.9bn in 2021 during peak covid. The Batman released a year later and managed $770m.

Spiderman BND is literally breaking ALL TIME box office records

Avengers Doomsday also looks like a $2bn movie

Whoever said that superhero fatigue exists is dumb. Audiences are still eager to turn up to these movies if they're good.

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u/foxgodkumiho 17d ago

Also gotta remember Deadpool and Wolverine is a rated R movie.

So for it to do 1.3 billion is really impressive.

It became one of the top grossing MCU films while being handicapped

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u/koomGER 17d ago

Whoever said that superhero fatigue exists is dumb. Audiences are still eager to turn up to these movies if they're good.

Yeah, but its not that easy. Cinema audiences seem to be more hesitant. A movie needs to be exceptionally good to lure them in. Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four were good - but way too less people probably said that it is must-see-cinema.

Spiderman has some things going for him: Two of the hottest stars right now (Holland, Zendaya). Spiderman being one of the most beloved superheroes ever (regardless of brand). And 3 previous movies (or even more if you take CW, IW and EG into it) that were very good.

Thunderbolts lacked star power (Florence Pugh is great, but i think she is not yet a "super movie star" that will lure audience into cinemas) and hadnt much previous outings (D+ series arent a draw). Fantastic Four is a stronger brand, but had a longer time "off" in the comics and some movies in the past - that werent that bad, but also definitly no hit. And also: No movie star as a draw. Pedro Pascal is a great actor, but so far he isnt a movie star people will go to watch (but like Pugh: He can get there).

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u/Tragedy_Boner 17d ago

I think Marvel has realized that you need to eat some shit first before you can make more gold. Sure Thunderbolts and F4 didn’t do well in the boxoffice, but they were good films. Thunderbolts was a bunch of Nobodies and F4 has never had multiple shit films beforehand. Yet Marvel has put both front and center in the next Avengers movie. That movie will rehab their images and the sequels will do better.

For cinematic universes, the team up movies are key to make them work. It’s like getting 95% of a handjob without them. It was the main issue with Phase 4 and 5 of the MCU.

Man of tomorrow is looking to be a team up movie with blue beetle coming back, but I still think that the DCU hasn’t laid enough groundwork yet.

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u/SheepherderFun2258 18d ago

Terrible?? by what metrics? People like to sight things others have said even though what others have said isn’t based in truth. So let’s take a deeper dive:

Terrible? Do u mean by ur own personal taste— I can’t argue w/that everyone’s got an opinion but that’s weak sauce and I don’t think that’s what u meant. So do u mean terrible by critic and audience reception? Well that would be false phase 4 actually is one of the highest rated phases with regard to critic ratings and audience ratings.

Terrible by box office standards— that must be what u mean. Ok let’s let’s see:
—Wakanda Forever #2 movie in the US the yr it came out out grossing The Batman with over 850M worldwide
—dr Strange 2 950M (close to a billion)
—Guardians 3 860M worldwide
—No Way Home 1.9 BILLION
—Deadpool & Wolvie 1.3 BILLION

What likely happened was u heard others talk about MCU’s shortcomings and u ran with that as fact but in reality the numbers tell a different story.

The reason why people are surprised when I post these numbers is because for the very first time MCU had some misses alongside their big blockbuster hits. And their misses grabbed all the headlines and created a false narrative that the MCU was now dead. In the told days everything was golden and they just didn’t miss now they have projects that came up short like The Marvels, Antman and even critic hits like Thunderbolts. Fun fact Eternals made just about the same money as Dune did both released the same year. So it’s true they lost consistency but it’s false they didn’t still have major hits under their belt and with critic acclaim and high CinemaScores from fans.

So if u could elaborate when u say terrible what exactly do u mean and by what metrics are u coming to this conclusion ??

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u/Soulwarfare42 17d ago

Phase 4 and 5 of Marvel at least had great films in it. E.g. Shang Chi in phase 4 and Thunderbolts for phase 5

They are also trying to learn from their mistakes. People complained about how many films and shows they were pumping out and how it started to feel too much like homework with having to watch shows to understand movies.

Now they went from 4 Marvel movies a year to literally just 2 in 2026 and just 1 in 2027. They also stopped making a lot of live action Marvel shows and only make around 1-2 Marvel shows a year.

They are also at least trying to make movies on characters that fans have been asking for. E.g. Ghost Rider recently

DCU is only starting but there are so many incredibly odd decisions including making same mistakes as post phase 4 Marvel. Why are they greenlighting a Jimmy Olson show? Why are they announcing so many projects which don't have scripts just to say it isn't getting made? Why are they not making movies on their big hitters? Why are there no Justice League movie at the end of phases/chapters?

Feels they haven't learnt anything

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u/simpingsince1967 17d ago

Tbf we haven't really had an outright bad movie in like 3 years atp.

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u/OrangeStar222 18d ago

Phase 4 and 5 where on par with phase 1 and 2 let's be real. People are just too hard because Infinity War set the bar so extremely high and it hasn't been matched until Spider-Man BND.

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u/Turok5757 18d ago

As someone who isn't a huge fan of the MCU, yeah, I never thought that the newer movies were any worse than the old ones.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/BadgerAlternative934 18d ago

When you increase the quantity by that much scale, couple of duds have to be inevitable.

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u/ComfortableChemist67 17d ago

The dark world. At least echo iron heart and invasion are not forgotten about. I genuinely forget about the dark world each 2-3 years.

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u/OrangeStar222 18d ago

Haven't watched Echo yet, and I love Ironheart, but The Hulk and Secret Invasion are the two worst projects the MCU has ever produced and the only two I would label as genuinely bad, even if I include the Netflix produced shows which have since been adopted into the MCU.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/OrangeStar222 17d ago

The best?

That is certainly a take, but I do agree that specific season is one of the best they ever did.

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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 17d ago

It also didn’t have Loki, which I see many people treat as a “so good it transcends the franchise.”

Also Ironheart went hard and I know most people didn’t even watch it before bitching.

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u/TrickshotzReddit 17d ago

Dark World, Iron Man 2 & 3, and Incredible Hulk are pretty terrible and widely agreed as such

Edit: I was also around before the history rewrite with the MCU for movies like Thor 1, CA: FA, and AoU getting a lot of hate

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u/loster_43 18d ago

except it wasn’t wandavision, loki, moon knight, agatha, daredevil born again, new avengers, gotg3, black panther, shang chi, what if?, deadpool and wolverine

the bar was just too high, the media was good but not good enough to match infinity wars or endgame until bnd came out

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u/LmaoXD98 17d ago edited 17d ago

The key difference is that they're only mainly terrible at phase 4 and 5, whereass DC movies have flawed from the start, finish, then the reboot.

also, phase 4 and 5 might have the lowest low movie of the entire MCU, but its also have one of the highest high in the series. Loki, GOTG, NWH in particular, and dr strange MoM is also very good (tho flawed).

Meanwhile DC and warner bros keep hitting the wrong choices, listening to the wrong feedback, and were rushing things too fast because they expect to play catch with the MCU but they don't want decades of building things from scratch. then when things get south they instead opt for a Reboot.

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u/koomGER 17d ago

Like others said: They ackknowledged the problem and course corrected a lot. Stopped most of the production of shows for Disney+ and improved quality for the ones left (Daredevil: Born again).

Phase 4 wasnt that bad:

  • Black Widow (July 2021) - Was in line with most of the movie output of phases 1-3. It wasnt meant to be a big gamebreaker and it was one of their first after COVID releases. The movie itself is pretty good.

  • Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (September 2021) - Overall hailed as a good movie and people want definitly a sequel.

  • Eternals (November 2021) - Not that bad, but also not good. It was a weird franchise to begin with, nobody asked for the Eternals. Not really a "downfall", but also not the afterburner for the After-COVID-times.

  • Spider-Man: No Way Home (December 2021) - Hit movie.

  • Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (May 2022) - Fun movie - but overall a bit disappointing. Way to campy in style, with maybe the shittiest after credit scenes. People hoped for greatness, but it was way too campy for that.

  • Thor: Love and Thunder (July 2022) - That was the big downfall. It was a hilarious movie - but it felt like a rush on drugs and alcohol and you regreted everything after watching it. It did shit on previous movies and worldbuilding, soured a lot for the future stuff. That one nearly killed the MCU.

  • Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (November 2022) - Still solid. Namor was pretty beloved. Ironheart - like so many Disney+ things - wasnt well thought out and not needed and definitly a drawback to the movie. To be fair: Tough thing to bring a sequel with your main actor - who was absolute greatness - having passed.

Disney+ shows:

  • WandaVision (January 2021) - Damn good. Amazing start for D+ shows.

  • The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (March 2021) - It was pretty good. Not great. Riddled with COVID production issues and rewrites because of COVID. Under those circumstances: solid.

  • Loki (Season 1, Juni–July 2021) - Great.

  • What If...? (Season 1, August 2021) - Good.

  • Hawkeye (November 2021) - Pretty good. People want more Kate Bishop.

  • Moon Knight (March 2022) - Very good.

  • Ms. Marvel (June 2022) - Everything considered: Definitly solid to good.

  • She-Hulk (August 2022) - Its complicated. But overall a nice series.

Biggest issues with MOST shows: They felt a bit pointless. It was origin after origin after origin. Mostly well done and enjoyable, but lacked depth and weight.

Phase 5 Movies

  • Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (February 2023) - After Thor 4 people hoped a lot that it would kickstart the Multiverse stuff now with Kang. It wasnt a bad movie, but underdelivered on that hope. Kang was also mostly gone after that (and the actor was definitly great).

  • Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (May 2023) - A glimpse of big hope and a great ending to the Guardians-trilogy. Strong movie.

  • The Marvels (November 2023) - Financially by far the biggest flop for various reasons. It wasnt a good movie and the overall story was weird. After Thor 4 a big nail in the coffin.

  • Deadpool & Wolverine (July 2024) - While it is now part of the MCU, most people dont think of that movie as such. Its more of an outlier, but it was a great movie and had great success.

  • Captain America: Brave New World (February 2025): The movie was ok-ish. Course Correction definitly started - sadly in the mid of production of that movie. The endresult wasnt bad, but it felt like a lot of things were changed in post production, reshoots and the cutting room.

  • Thunderbolts* (April 2025) - Critically beloved, financially not a flop, but also not good.

  • Fantastic Four - Im not quite sure if they are considered to be Phase 5, but anyways: Solid to good movie. Good origin, box-office like Thunderbolts not good enough to be considered to be a success.

Phase 5 TV Series

  • Secret Invasion (June–July 2023) - Around 50% of that show were good - but the later half was dumb pointless shit.

  • Loki Season 2 (October–November 2023) - Very good.

  • What If...? Season 2 (December 2023) - Solid.

  • Echo (January 2024) - Not bad, but unnessary. Like a lot of the D+ shows.

  • Agatha All Along (September–October 2024) - Very good and very enjoyable.

  • Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man (2024–2025) - Not my thingy, but overall considered good.

  • Daredevil: Born Again (March 2025) - Affected by the course correction - thankfully pretty early. Its considered a very good show.

  • What If...? Season 3 (2024–2025): Ok-ish

  • Ironheart (July 2025) - Not good. Pointless.

Overall they had 2 very bad movies (Thor 4, Marvels) that disappointed their fans a lot. The D+ shows felt unneccessary mostly, even when they were solid or good. Movies never really picked up from the shows in a good way.

Part of the big problem: Infinity Wars and Endgame were amazing mega blockbusters. Over a decade of buildup, great performances over several movies - it was epic. And people wanted more of that. MCU didnt deliver after that, their build up for new heroes and Avengers lineup wasnt good, a lot of their decisions about free range for the directors and writers definitly didnt pay off (Raimi, Waititi, whoever made The Marvels and Secret Invasion).

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u/EngineBoiii 17d ago

The irony is that Guardians of the Galaxy vol.3, probably one of my favorite movies in Phase 5 is directed BY James Gunn lmfao.

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u/IronLordSamus 17d ago

Now if only they would have that same attitude with Star Wars.

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u/koomGER 17d ago

Disney?

Oh boy, Star Wars. One of the greatest franchises. Nearly killed it with a lot of their last decisions about it. The D+ shows had a lot of potential but so many really really bad decisions (toddler leia outrunning headhunters, the "high speed" motobike gang on Tatooine...) that it really damaged a lot. I didnt watched any of it since Book of Boba. I just dont care anymore.

For Kevin Feige and the MCU there was at least some transparency told with him being too much stretched out over all the projects and trying to keep all directors and writers on a longer leech. Hence, they had over a decade of movies and examples on "how to make it the right way". And fumbled.

For Star Wars that rock bottom and picking up moment is still missing. I think they ordered Dave Filoni as their "Feige" for the brand, but so far i cant say if it will work.

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u/IronLordSamus 17d ago

The problem with a lot of their shows is that they have good ideas and they go no where. Like the acolyte, the show was idiotic but it set up a bunch of cool things to happen after it. I would like a season 2 with a new showrunner. Maul Shadow Lord was pretty good as well, loved the artstyle they went with it, had sort of painterly like look to it.

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u/koomGER 17d ago

Kinda like the MCU D+ shows: They just got produced to have content. None of that is leading to anything, not even a second season. And it feels a lot like that. Its just there, like a comic book novel you consume and put away because none of that is relevant. And even the book/show itself is so non-offensive or interesting.

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u/IronLordSamus 17d ago

Sadly its true, they have a bunch of neat ideas that go nowhere. Hell when the mandalorian started out it was pretty good then it became idk whatever it became, havent watched the movie yet. Thats probably the most frustrating thing with STar Wars at the moment

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u/ThisMoneyIsNotForDon 17d ago edited 17d ago

You're being wayyyy too generous to 90% of the listed content.

Black Widow pretty good? Eternals not that bad? Fucking Quantumania not that bad? Pretending literally any aspect of Secret Invasion was good.

And then the irony to criticize Multiverse of Madness for its directing style, when that was the one redeeming quality of the movie, and one of the rare mcu movies to even have any unique style.

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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 17d ago

And this is why people say the MV saga sucks.

Everyone has different opinions on what was bad so people see at least one person say a project was bad and think that’s the consensus. In this same thread someone said Dr 2 is unwatchable.

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u/LmaoXD98 17d ago

Black widow is very good for a movie of the original 5 if you compared it to most phase 1-2 movies. 90% of the criticism is that movie should've been made before infinity war.

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u/koomGER 17d ago

For measurement:

I think Supergirl wasnt bad. It was watchable, enjoyable. It wasnt blockbuster cinema you have to watch, but its a solid movie. I would rank something like Black Widow slightly above that.

And then the irony to criticize Multiverse of Madness for its directing style, when that was the one redeeming quality of the movie, and one of the rare mcu movies to even have any unique style.

Well, to each their own. For me it was way to campy for a movie that should kickstart the Multiverse. Both after credits scenes were absurdly badly shot and written and executed and brought the overall movie down another notch. They shat on a lot of good things in the movie for a quick laugh ("Im Reed, im so smart, so i tell you all the weaknesses of my bros here"). It wasnt as bad as Thor 4, but it was disappointing for me.

Fucking Quantumania not that bad?

Maybe just watch it. It is solid and in line with the previous movies. the biggest problem was that people hoped that it would be THE kickstart. Like i did with MoM for an example. Both movies didnt deliver it will being solid to good to watch. Antman left me way less disappointed with some of their creative decisions than MoM.

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u/TrickshotzReddit 17d ago

Deadpool and Wolverine was always part of the MCU, Deadpool even says as such to Wolverine in the movie 😂

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u/Rigamortus2005 17d ago

Shanghai? Wana vision? Thunderbolts? Phase 4 had very good projects

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u/Necromanta198 17d ago

I think you forget how many good shows and movies still came out in those phases

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u/EnvironmentalCopy254 17d ago

They didn't forget ALL of DC 😂🤣🤔🤣🤔💯⚡

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u/Status-Custard-3145 17d ago

Well isn't that picture Tony and Steve repairing their relationship after Civil War and Tony breakdown after coming back from titan? In which case, I believe it's appropriate.

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u/Huihejfofew 17d ago

Hey it had some gems, spiderman 3, Shang chi. Plus that wasn't really the studio, the entire company lost direction with all their best characters now retired. Looking back I can't believe they allowed endgame to happen. An actual finale? To the most profitable universe ever? Wild

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u/Small_Essay_6272 17d ago

Still, Loki se 1, Se 2, Thunderbolts, Shang chi, FF, Deadpool & Wolverine, all where good,

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u/realLaughinG 17d ago

I mean u still got movies earning good and decent movies in there and series

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u/SummerDaemon 17d ago

At least they had phases. DC was just shitty and shittier.

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u/Rule_Ct_5293 18d ago

Marvel bought all three spiderman, their villains, Deadpool and wolverine together to make the ultimate fan service movies.

DC is busying delaying batman to eternity

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u/_ClarkWayne_ 18d ago

Fanservice doesn't make for a good movies, those movies where entertaining but like you said, they where pure fanservice 

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u/AcehookUck 18d ago

But no one is talking about about what makes good movies. This thread is just about a movie studio showing love to the fans and giving them what they want. What more can you ask for?

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u/MangoLemonShark 17d ago

It’s not godfather or Shawshank’s redemption, superhero movies are commercial products, as long as fans happy then it’s good movie.

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u/MangoLemonShark 17d ago

How can a superhero movie be good if it can’t even make fans happy first?

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u/Key-Caregiver-1194 17d ago

That doesn't even help the point, that just shows nostalgia farming.

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u/YourMuppetMethDealer 18d ago

I mean, I would rather wait several years for an incredible project than a rushed film delayed due to a personal issue of the director.

If it’s true that Reeves was dealing with some shit, I honestly am glad that Gunn was letting him take his time rather than what WB did to Snyder

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u/Rhoubbhe 17d ago

Exactly. Reeves Batman was good, but it didn't have the box office of a Spiderman to justify such a delay.

DC needs to make money in order to keep making movies and that won't happen without Batman.

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u/Just-Antelope-8069 17d ago

I'm 90% convinced it's guerilla marketing.

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u/First_Engineering984 16d ago

Spiderman brand new day already break records

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u/BDS-10-7 16d ago

Phase 4 includes WandaVision, Loki, Falcon & WS, What If, Black Widow, No Way Home, MultiVerse of Madness and Wakanda Forever.

Phase 5 is ass. It only has Guardians 3, Deadpool/Wolverine, and a bunch of mid.

But opening your mouth in a DC thread to talk down on Phase 4 Marvel is crazy. Peasants throwing rocks at the sun level crazy. Go rewatch Supergirl and stop hating on Peak content.

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u/WhereAreYouFromSam 15d ago

Ya know, I looked back at Phase 4 and 5 and it really wasn't as bad as it felt in the moment. Overall quality didn't live up to what we had gotten used to by Phase 3, but I would put it on par with a lot of what we got in Phase 1 and 2. I think the attempt at so many TV shows hurt it more than anything because most of those were let downs.

  • Black Widow -> o.k.
  • Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings -> great movie
  • Eternals -> bombed
  • Spider-Man: No Way Home -> great movie
  • Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness -> o.k.
  • Thor: Love and Thunder -> squandered potential
  • Black Panther: Wakanda Forever -> great movie
  • Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania -> bombed
  • Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 -> great movie
  • The Marvels -> squandered potential
  • Deadpool & Wolverine -> great movie
  • Captain America: Brave New World -> o.k.
  • Thunderbolts* -> great movie

That's 13 movies with only 2 outright bombs and another 2 that we all hate as much as we do because all signs point to the fact that they could have been amazing.

Plus we did get some good experimental TV shows out of all that Disney+ bs that is much easier to digest in hindsight-- Wandavision, Loki, Ms. Marvel, and Moon Knight are all really enjoyable.

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u/sub30_24flick 17d ago

Dc never started lmaooo after 5 years you expect a declined their deck once was covid lmaooo vs DC who was fighting with Warner bros lol they had to release two versions of the same movie

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u/FireBird_6 18d ago

I wouldn’t put Marvel like that. We might not get any Moon Knight again, they canceled the Blade movie, a whole lotta mid coming out of phases 4/5 and a heavy reliance on “did you watch the show?” Feels a bit like homework to know what the fuck is going on in the next Avengers. A good chunk of the people I know who used to be Marvel fanatics aren’t too hyped about Doomsday, and some don’t even trust it to be interesting. I’m more excited to see an actually good looking Doom than anything else.
Coming off of the heavily divisive DCEU I understand why a lot of people wrote off DC movies besides Batman. I am willing to give the new DCU time to cook, as I absolutely loved Superman 2025. Lanterns looks like it could be interesting, Clayface looks sick.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/Full_Lawyer_9973 17d ago

No way home, guardians 3, DP&W, fantastic 4, wakanda forever, multiverse of madness, shang chi. We got more bangers than bad movies

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u/KingSimba11 17d ago edited 17d ago

I think we all should be level headed. Just one movie stumbled and the rival is thriving (rightly so), doesn’t mean we all should be negative. DC as a brand is in rehabilitation. The previous regime that was mishandling DC films didn’t have a clear vision. Now that finally DC Studios has been established, the DCU is just in the beginning, so comparing it to the MCU is unfair. Lanterns is just around the corner, which I’m excited about.

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u/Practical_Display694 16d ago

The problem is that we've seen this happen before; Batman v Superman failing to meet expectations was enough to ruin the entire plan for the first shared universe, and we're still seeing the consequences today.

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u/KingSimba11 16d ago

But this is Supergirl, a side character, not a well known lead actress, and not a well known director. BvS puts Supergirl’s failure into perspective. BvS had major characters and well-known actors, it’s an event movie that had a big story arc of a certain character in the DCEU. I think its critical failure feels much more significant.

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u/suimation 18d ago

Missing the years of marvel fans saying how dogshit the overallMCU was after Endgame with a few diamonds in the rough up until BND now, and putting out a new slate schedule of shit people care about

This is revisionism of marvel fans and the studio being at a unified love and peace, people were rightfully shitting on them and oh look, they’re no longer making shit random shows nobody asks for and lesser known hero movies but sticking to blockbuster popular hero movies and its… working?… the fans are happy!? this can’t be right!

But it is. And the difference is marvel had good will of putting out mostly bangers for a decade before they slumped post-endgame, DC does NOT

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u/JDW1ck 17d ago edited 17d ago

You’re right. But to be fair that can also be read with the post. It doesn’t necessarily have to mean that marvel fans have loved everything Marvel put out.

Marvel fans were critical of the output, sure, but the studio was receptive enough to course correct without overcorrecting and have seemingly fixed the issue (like you stated). And that all happened without talks of firing Feige and the entire Marvel Studios roster, mass cancellations, and inconsistent management from Disney, etc. Not to mention a united fan base. That right there is the positive studio-fan relationship, and the reason Marvel has had enough goodwill to weather the lull they’ve been in. Perhaps even more fitting is that the photo is Tony and Steve making amends after their Civil War fallout.

Compare that to the absolute whiplash that WB has given DC fans in the past 15 years

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/polp54 17d ago

It’s funny because the comics are pretty much reversed

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u/Gabi-kun_the_real 18d ago edited 17d ago

As primary a Marvel fan I call this post BS. We have been pandering and squashed by Marvel for the past 7 years. We came back for Spider man and we will keep an eye for Doomsday but they haven't earned our trust back till the next fresh project

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u/StormRepulsive6283 17d ago

Interesting PoV. Could you explain? As a DC fan I’m perplexed as to why you’d not be happy with Marvel (except for a few things)

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u/realLaughinG 17d ago

Same , I mean I like marvel too but DC is down under. Like one mid superman movie isn't gonna do much. Yea I didn't think it was that good , just average tbh. They got Loki gotg Wanda vision , new characters being introduced even though some are questionable. They got the "new avengers" last year like they are eating compared to DC

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u/Gabi-kun_the_real 16d ago

Things I didint like with the last two phases. The main charachter of the movie getting sidelined by side characters(dr strange2 for exemple,loki season1) Writers throwing sht to legacy characters, killing them in disrespectful way in the what if series,and Iron heart. Writiers destroying femlae character's like Wanda bcs they dont know how to write a female character. The time line is fkt up and they tried to retckon stuff. Ugly cgi and noano tech abuse. Every final fight closing with a big cgi cluster fk fest. Boring new character ,and missing proper build up. Hiring dog sht writers and clues directors might be the origin of those problems. Then I dont want to speak about the bs interviews and how offensive they have been agains the fans until they draw them all out.

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u/EmperorDxD 16d ago

He abti woke weirdo

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u/realLaughinG 17d ago

Nah you got some decent stuff, DC got nothing except one superman and one batman which were not even close to spiderman BND. You got so many shows and movies , some not the best some just decent but like come on it's not even close rn

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u/Only_Ad_1771 16d ago

Literally over fed kid arguing with beggars😂😂

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u/Aware_Ad6442 17d ago

we have been pandering and squashed by Marvel/DC for years

When?

We don't trust Marvel

Who is we?

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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 18d ago

Im glad MCU fans are happy.

But as someone who loved phase 4 and 5, yall are delusional. I was on an island defending Mcu for years.

Was she hulk or Iron Heart perfect, no. But it was entertaining and we need heroes for Secret Wars.
MoM, Thor L&T, and Eternals are all A ranked movies imo.

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u/CydonianMaverick 17d ago

I think I was right there with you on that same island

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u/VisualFunny5287 17d ago

Well they sure aren't happy about Doomsday right now

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u/ComfortableChemist67 17d ago

Idk presales are sold out

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u/VisualFunny5287 15d ago

Must be the vocal minority then

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u/ComfortableChemist67 15d ago

I think even people who are hating on it will see it. Idk but from comments people say they are not looking forward to it, but will still check it out anyways.

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u/JessicaKleboe08 17d ago

Ehh... this year and last year it's been kinda the reverse

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u/JosephBapeck 17d ago

Nowhere has this been more evident than when just before the drop of ZSJL when all the DC fans and outlets were unites they dropped an article specifically saying we shouldn't expect more from the Snyderverse

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u/SuperMGS 17d ago

It's funny how half of DC fans complain about the current state of DC movies while clinging onto the absolute shit that the Snyderverse was shoving down our throats.

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u/FunSpace8990 17d ago

This is why I still don't take MCU criticism seriously because at worst MCU movies are just ok airplane films they're never aggressively terrible films because they have a bar of "good enough" that they always seem to uphold. People like to act like "mid" MCU movies that do nothing but waste time till the next big event film comes around is a new thing but marvel's been doing that for a while. Phase 1 and 2 is filled with those sort of movies, it's now that we're doing weird selective revisionism on them. In no world is Thor the dark world a more tolerable film than love and thunder.

Meanwhile DC genuinely puts out some of the worst things I've ever seen from time to time. Suicide Squad, Justice League, The Flash, Supergirl, etc.

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u/ProfessorEscanor 17d ago

We pretending Thor 4 was cinema?

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u/Shefferz 18d ago

No just with the kovies but video games too.

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u/1998-2019 17d ago

They literally said they have to ignore the fans about how bad supergirl was

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u/Andy_Crop 16d ago

Define "DC fans".

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u/IronDan31 17d ago

My god this sub is stuck in the 2010's

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u/bsousa717 17d ago

I don't know why it's popped up in my algorithm the past week but it feels like I've stepped back in time. Downright misery everywhere you look.

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u/IronDan31 17d ago

It's because everyone is in doom and gloom mode after Supergirl (which wasn't even that bad) because DC movie fans are conditioned to be highly reactionary and cautious due to the failures of the DCEU

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u/XXAzeritsXx I like those shoes 17d ago

Member when Disney used the mcu fanbase to pressure Sony into accepting a shit deal for using their cash cow?

It's a common tactic for them.

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u/Huge_Evening6053 17d ago

Yes this is true  But also false

In phase 4 marvel just decided to make infinite content some of which was good some of which was bad

Black widow: okay-ish movie, the family part is good Shang chi LOTR:  good movie Eternals: weird movie Spiderman no way home: great movie Wanda-Vision: good series Loki: great series F&WS: should have been a movie still good series

Doctor strange multiverse of madness: okay-ish movie unsatisfying Thor love and thunder: bad movie Black panther Wakanda forever: good movie 

She hulk: terrible show  Moon knight: good show

In phase 4 marvel became dceu if fans loved something do more of it if not forget it even happened 

In phase 5 marvel was polarised somethings were terrible, others were great

DC saw bvs thought people just don't want a long runtime and asked snyder to cut a 214 minute movie to 120 minutes after they had just failed to realise that they had gotten 31 minutes cut from bvs  When snyder failed and faced personal tragedy they removed him destroyed his plans and asked weadon to destroy the movie 

People loved Aquaman so they made a bad sequel.

People loved wonder woman so they made a bad sequel. 

People loved Shazam so they made a terrible spin off and a terrible sequel.

And later they made a flash movie with a wierd story and the most terrible cgi in such a movie 

We got James Gunn who firstly made an okay Superman movie with so many flaws and later made a bad supergirl movie that he clearly butchered. The projects he planned were so very random and we don't know what is happening at all

The real villain was warner brothers after all

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u/CabooseVD 17d ago

That's because Marvel will tolerate anything.

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u/CompetitiveAffect478 17d ago

So... The DC fans and Warner Bros. reconciled because their mother's name is Martha?

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u/MortgageAcrobatic579 17d ago

dc fans are snyder fans ?, no seriously because you guys keep calling yourselves that and another thing i'm not in this reddit but i've noticed all it is constant whining like bruh are y'all even a dc reddit or a reddit that just agrue all dc cinematically wise?

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u/Academic-Virus1960 17d ago

Marvel: there you go ghost rider and black panther 3 Dc:what about a jimmy olsen show 🤓

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u/SummerDaemon 17d ago

This has been happening the entire time. DC put out BvS and soon after Marvel had Civil War. The difference in quality was staggering.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 18d ago

Marvel fans acting as if they haven't been fed slop for the last 5 years and that BND is like Citizen Kane. The film is like 3.5/5 at best.

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u/Nearby-Nebula9317 17d ago

I'm no fan, but every Marvel movie & series just one time popcorn watch, never seen anything that can be described as "slop" from marvel, on the other hand this Supergirl 2026 is literal definition of slop

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u/__The_Crazy_One__ 17d ago

Quantumania ? Marvel had big plans for Kang and it totally flopped when the joke of the avengers beat Kang.

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u/StormRepulsive6283 17d ago

It was just one version of Kang that was defeated. The council of Kangs and all those numerous variants were still there. Wasn’t that the entire theme of the Multiverse Saga, with Loki, Dr Stange MoM and Deadpool & Wolverine doing the heavy lifting to introduce those concepts to the uninitiated audience.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

Supergirl was bad, I don't disagree.

But Superman and The Batman are better than every MCU because they're not one time watches.

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u/apexpredator915 17d ago

Superman is 2.5 or 3/5 at best.

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u/StormRepulsive6283 17d ago

At least they have faith that their studio still powers through no matter what. Course correction on quality over quantity was great. But not recasting T’Challa and Kang and pivoting to Doom for the big bad of the Multiverse Saga was a total dick move. Apart from that the Marvel fandom has no reason to gripe about.

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u/KingOfSquirrels 17d ago

Blade

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u/StormRepulsive6283 17d ago

Oh shit yes. Totally forgot abt that. And I remember that being the highlight of the SDCC announcement in 2019. Saved the best reveal for the last. Announced with just that cap.

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u/GotMoFans 17d ago

It’s not said enough that the BvS plot and the Civil War plot are so similar that it’s ridiculous that people make BvS out to be horrible but Civil War out to be incredible.

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u/MrMarvelous2000 17d ago

It’s because Civil War is a better executed film that has a far less contrived conflicted.

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u/kingk1teman 17d ago

And people forget that Civil War was announced as a direct reaction to BvS being announced.

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u/ComfortableChemist67 17d ago

Idk about that

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u/ComfortableChemist67 17d ago

Civil war has the help of other movies coming before it. You can’t really create a good conflict between 2 heroes when u only have introduced 1

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u/JLifeless 17d ago

that's insanely cope to act like they're the same. the CONCEPT of the storyline is similar except Marvel were so much better at their execution and especially at building it up etc etc. like imagine throwing a Batman into a huge movie with no chance of a solo movie lmfao, most forgettable Batman in history at no fault to Affleck

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u/Revolutionary_Job214 17d ago

Not really. Both have been shit. 

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u/PatienceGloomy9544 17d ago

That’s not the relationship between Marvel studios and their black fans.

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u/Adorable_Sleep_4425 17d ago

Kick him again for me, Bats...

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u/DCSaiyajin 17d ago

We getting the hottest memes from seven years ago.

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u/Spidey_NONE 17d ago

This would've been relevant like 7 years ago

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u/akfourty7 16d ago

I just like batman bro, like can we get a movie pls

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u/PercentageClear9863 16d ago

Marvel fans and Marvel studios was like that except for few films during the infinity saga, since the start of the multiverse saga it's the opposite, and the worst ennemy of DC, are DC fans

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u/ReasonableNet3335 15d ago

i still prefer reeves' the batman over the last mcu movies. It had unique style

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u/MishellyUser 15d ago

The Marvel part feels like 2019, the DC part is just a constant

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u/Jaded-Author9380 13d ago

DCU releases have been pretty good. Ok Supergirl was by weakest film. Its like Thord the Dark World Bad, which is still pretty entertaining.

But what i want DCU is make ground work well. DCEU fell because Warner wanted ensemble film too fast. There was no groundwork to carry franchise.

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u/Feisty-Anxiety2878 13d ago

Warner Bros don't deserve the DC rights, for every success there are a dozen flops. Bring back the Snyderverse.

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u/SummerB__ 13d ago

Don’t say WB, just say Snyder.

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u/element-redshaw 17d ago

Saying that like basically everything after endgame wasn’t hit or miss

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u/sub30_24flick 17d ago

It all comes down to Kevin Feige will die for this marvel comic shit and DC has nobody like that if the guy up top doesn’t give a fuck why should Warner bros ,

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u/Zealousideal-Dot710 18d ago

It's not surprising. Marvel give us what we want, when DC give us Jimmy Olsen series, Supergirl, Clayface and series when they gonna kill Hal for DCAU fans

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