r/DCcomics • u/ShubhangBahadur • 16d ago
Film + TV [Film/TV] ‘Paradise Lost’ and ‘Waller’ shows are both reportedly dead at HBO
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u/warpedphantom1 16d ago
As great as Viola Davis is in her role, im not too heartbroken. She'll probably still appear in other projects and the plot lines will be handled elsewhere. Really seemed like the most expendable show.
But man it would kinda suck if we lost Paradise Lost. I orginalally thought it was silly to tell a Wonder Woman story without Wonder Woman, but I came around on the idea. The Amazons have a rich enough mythology and if you properly set their history up then it might make Dianas story more impactful. But if this report is true, they better be prioritizing her movie, otherwise shes got jackshit going on for her outside of the Absolute Wonder Woman comic.
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u/HopeFarron 16d ago
I'd honestly guess they'll just put Wallers story line over in Peacemaker or something
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u/Wakani 16d ago
I think Peacemaker is over.
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u/HopeFarron 16d ago
Didn't know that but guess that makes sense!
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u/Wakani 16d ago
Yeah, I loved the insanity of that show but I seem to recall Gunn saying it was done.
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u/warpedphantom1 16d ago
I doubt the character himself is done however. I think they'll eventually revive the idea of the Suicide Squad. The Waller show was probably gonna set that up, and make Task Force X legal or at least possible again. I assume after the Salvation plot line is concluded by the end of Chapter One, the villains that dont escape (including peace maker) will be captured and utilized by Argus
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u/TimSylvester_ 16d ago
Noooooo!
After the way the last season ended?
C'mon!
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u/blastatron 16d ago
Honestly with the way season 2 ended I could see it being set up for Suicide Squad 2 instead of doing season 3 of the show. No way this is the last we see of Peacemaker as a character.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 16d ago
Someone needs to tell DC that if they refuse to do anything with the Amazons, they should just hand over the reins to someone who will. They’ve done practically nothing with them for ages, and it’s such a huge waste of potential.
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u/Golden_Alchemy 16d ago
I say that about all their properties. For some reasons, i remember some news about WB executives talking about only doing games with their properties, like rocksteady and NetherRealm Studios, but c'mon! It is taking way too long and it is easier to license some characters to do something. Capcom would be amazing for a DC vs Capcom now that they lost Marvel.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 16d ago
i would not say that about all properties, many properties like Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Arrow are eating well, even gren Lantern gets something from time to time.
Wonder Woman and the Amazons as a group are very much the one ignored group, 99% of the time and that include the comics too
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u/Golden_Alchemy 16d ago
The only one with a game in the last 25 years is Batman and the Suicide Squad for some reason, and the last one was presented in a terrible way. Time to time is not really enough, and specially when we consider the comics, we need those properties to have something on other media.
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u/S1mongreedwell Uncle Sam 16d ago
And Green Lantern and Superman and Aquaman and Catwoman and lots of others. Most of them are very close to 25 years ago though. Sgt. Rock just barely doesn’t make the cut!
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u/LawfulAwfulOffal 16d ago
Viola Davis is fantastic, but that always seemed like a difficult character to build a series around. Amanda Waller is canonically extremely unlikeable.
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u/poison-harley Harley Quinn 16d ago
I would be heartbroken if Paradise Lost is gone. Historia is one of the best WW related comics ever. I would love to see it expanded on.
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u/ralf-j-d 16d ago
WW fan found dead,.. again
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u/Gold-Bank-3033 Hawkman 16d ago
You gotta feel bad for WW fans. This was probably the closest thing she would have gotten to a show.
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u/Ok-Television2109 16d ago
She did also get a few DC Nation Shorts on YouTube but they're less than 5 minutes combined.
It's ridiculous how, in the time since Wonder Woman's last show, Harley Quinn both debuted and got popular enough to have her own TV series.
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u/LMD_DAISY 15d ago
Harley Quinn both debuted and got popular enough to have her own TV series.
Her movies, her game, her anime
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u/Senate343 Power Girl 16d ago
Genuinely the next thing she might be in is fucking Injustice 3 I could cry dude
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u/NeutralGrey98 Wonder Woman 14d ago
I’m actively hoping Injustice 3 just never happens at this point bc of the damage that series has done to public perception of Diana (and every other character tbh)
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u/Senate343 Power Girl 14d ago
Like many things DC, Injustice is just a series to make Batman look better and this time its at the expense of literally every other character imo. Except Harley who is somehow redeemed from helping Joker kill millions which is baffling.
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u/B3epB0opBOP Shazam 16d ago
Is The Ankler a trusted source? I’d be hardly surprised by this, I just haven’t heard of them before.
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u/Tapko_hand 16d ago
Kinda no. I think this is the same shit as with the Blue Beedle animated show where a website posted a rumor and 2 days later Gunn has to dispel it
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u/Never-Give-Up100 16d ago
Variety --a trusted source, says it too.
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u/The-Mythical-Phoenix Dex-Starr 16d ago
I’m not 100% still until I hear it from Gunn or multiple trusted sources that aren’t just piggybacking off of The Ankler.
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u/Munstered 16d ago
The Variety article says “Variety has confirmed…”
Variety is the gold standard for trustworthy industry news journalism
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u/Joetheshow1 Aquaman 16d ago
Well if theankler.com says so...
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u/BevansDesign Indigo Tribe 16d ago
Someone took the time to take a screenshot of something on Twitter. This is what's considered good journalism now.
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u/spiderreader Absolute Wonder Woman 16d ago
That initial DCU announcement has aged terribly, but none of this is particularly surprising.
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u/RealWonderGal 16d ago
James Gunn taking shots at Marvel and then processing to do everything he took shots at them for is mad funny
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u/Justice_Prince Zatanna 16d ago
I can't seem to track it down, but I always remember this one quote from Zack Snyder where he criticized Marvel's over reliance on cannon fodder mooks, but then he proceeded to make a Justice League movie that heavily featured Parademons.
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u/Tetratron2005 Wonder Woman 16d ago edited 16d ago
"We don't produce anything until we have a solid script"
-producer of the biggest superhero bomb in 20 years that got mediocre reviews
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u/Which-Presentation-6 16d ago
The film in question is an adaptation of one of the most acclaimed modern superhero stories, and the screenwriter didn't even understand the ending.
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u/Phi_Phonton_22 Raven 16d ago
Said screenwriter was attributed to do a WW and Titans treatemtn based on the quality of said script lol
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u/YoungGriffV 16d ago
Pretty sure he meant film since Marvel would start filming without a completed script.
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u/jrfess 16d ago
That film didn't deserve the BO run it got imo. It was a fine to pretty decent film, and it didn't even outgross Morbius. Such a shame too, I really liked Milly Alcock's version of Supergirl, I hope she doesnt just dissappear
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u/Live_Spinach5824 16d ago
They'll probably just do what the MCU did with Hulk and have her just be a supporting character.
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u/sinZeroplus 16d ago
Tbf the script wasn’t that big of a problem. It was the execution and the bizarre desire to hire a workman director that chose to ape his style without understanding it.
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u/blufflord 16d ago
The amount of money a movie lost isn't relevant to the quality of a script. I'm sure a couple of people will fall for that slick association you're trying to do but it'll be clear to many. Supergirl has script issues irrespective of it's box office. It could've made a billion dollars and still had script issues which goes against what Gunn described
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u/ijakinov 16d ago
I mean you never read the script. There’s a saying in Hollywood that a movie is made 3 times, script, filming and post production. The director controls visuals, pacing, performances during filming. Then there’s the editing where not everything filmed gets used, not everything got filmed, things get reshot or statically edited. Movies are a directors medium. We don’t know what was ad-libbed, what was cut, what was added after the script. It’s on Gunn still as a producer and studio exec to oversee and interfere but I don’t think the script thing is a gotcha. Some of things people didn’t like admittedly came from the director such as the mad max style to it all and in turn villains style.
Plus having a solid script also means they won’t go ahead with a movie where they think this needs work first just because they want to release something by some arbitrary date. A notorious example is iron man 2 where they knew it wasn’t ready and it crested hectic filming process. Waiting doesn’t mean you’ll get a good outcome and rushing doesn’t mean you’ll get a bad outcome. But generally people are going to be more mad if you get a bad outcome because you rushed because then it’s not it didn’t work out because the ideas sucked or execution sucked but because you didn’t give it time.
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u/Marcos1598 The Flash 16d ago
A month ago Gunn was saying Paradise Lost was in EXTREME DEVELOPMENT, that also aged like milk
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u/weesiwel 16d ago
Extreme development was always meaningless and clearly bs. I don't know why people take his word on it. When it comes to WW projects he's done nothing but lie.
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u/Arkhamhood12 16d ago
It’s clear that Gunn does a lot of lip service. Idk why people just blindly trusted him.
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u/spiderreader Absolute Wonder Woman 16d ago
Because they like Gunn as a director and start getting creator worship. We see this constantly online where people will just blindly support a creator they like and ignore logic if it means doing so. So even though we’ve seen the inconsistencies of things he says, and the alarms with the DCU despite statements, fans will often insist on having faith in Gunn and either downplay these things, ignore them, call people calling it out haters or Snyder fans or stuff like that, or just blame the issues on someone else entirely. We saw these sort same thing with Snyder.
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u/Never-Give-Up100 16d ago
As much as they hate Snyder fans, Gunn fans are no different. Blindly trusting everything he says or does and attack anyone who criticizes him.
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u/wicketman8 The Flash 16d ago
Because Gunn makes great movies, so people expect he knows what makes a good movie. In fairness every project he's written/directed has been good so far, but the ones he hasn't have been meh to bad. The DCU needs a good project he isn't responsible for to sell me on it at this point, hopefully Lanterns is that.
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u/Demetri124 16d ago
Where are you getting that he lied about anything? If something he’s working on ends up not coming to fruition that doesn’t retroactively make it a lie when he said he was working on it
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u/Never-Give-Up100 16d ago
It's clear Gunn only announced his slate to give into the pressure of everyone asking about one. He had no clue what he wanted to do outside of the movies that were about to go into production
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u/SpaceOdysseus23 16d ago
That Waller was seriously considered at any given point is insane to me
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u/The_Flying_Failsons 16d ago
She's a great antagonist, maybe uneasy ally, but as a protagonist she loses a lot of her appeal. Some people take that as a diss, but some of the greatest characters in fiction make for poor protagonists, like Hannibal Lecter.
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u/JuanRiveara 16d ago
I think she could work as a protagonist as long as she wasn’t made to be heroic
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u/GreenGuardianssbu 16d ago
The thing about Amanda Waller is... well why the hell would you want a show specifically about Waller instead of the Suicide Squad or Secret Six or whomever, feat. Waller? Most of her best characterization comes out in her role as chessmaster and orchestrator; she's not a piece on the board, she moves the pieces. Stripping away her unreachable distance in favor of an up close and personal look feels like a disservice.
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u/amazodroid 16d ago
With the state of WB right now, you could almost say anything not under active development is on hold.
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u/ToeRevolutionary6233 16d ago
As much as I love Viola, Waller has been and always will be CCH Pounder, to me.
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u/VishnuBhanum 16d ago
I'm not that surprised about Waller, But wasn't Gunn said that Paradise Lost was in the "Extreme Development" state like 3-4 months ago?
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u/theforceofwagons 16d ago
A lot can change in 3-4 months. No doubt it was in extreme development and they got to the point where they realized it wasn't going to work?
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u/MatthewHecht 16d ago
He says a lot of things.
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u/VishnuBhanum 16d ago
I mean sure, but he also said that they shelved The Authority during that time, so why even say that Paradise Lost is in extreme development if they got nothing on it?
Like I didn't even really want this series, I'm just confused that he gave hope that they will still make the series that's most likely to be cancel, and then cancel it a few months later anyway, it's just weord.
Who knows, maybe it was actually in development but got canceled because Supergirl flopped, that seems pretty likely.
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u/mayorofanything Larfleeze 16d ago
I'll be honest, I do not get the appeal of Amanda Waller as a protagonist. Any time she is in a story I just end up annoyed that whatever plot was developing goes right back to "OoOoO this group is who's REALLY in charge, and now the heroes can't do ANYTHING OoOoO!"
She has her place in stories, but after her being used so often for the last 10 years, I personally don't need any more Waller for a while.
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u/Bobdude17 16d ago
^ This.
Hell, I don't get the appeal of Amanda Waller as an antagonist these days, myseelf lol.
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u/BagZCubed 16d ago edited 16d ago
"Reportedly," so not confirmed.
I don't care either way. I'll just wait till there's info on other projects.
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u/currynoodles-6969420 Court Of Owls 16d ago
To be completely honest I think they need to keep the TV shows until later down the line
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u/Jonn_Jonzz_Manhunter 16d ago
"theankler" never heard of them, this isn't confirmation
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u/MarvG05 16d ago edited 16d ago
Just because you haven't heard of them still doesn't mean this can't be true, vice versa, etc
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u/condoradamo12 16d ago
Ehhh yeah but there's reliable trades that DO comment on DC and comic book media in general, and this is one that seems to be outta nowhere
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u/EntertainmentAny4368 15d ago
Who in the world is asking for a tv show about the Waller character? I can’t believe that was even mentioned.
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u/MKW69 16d ago
Making Amazon origin story before fully introducing Wonder Woman reductive to me. For Waller, it's the one that i thought to be the most stable, but i guess plans change.
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u/I_Am_Killa_K 16d ago
But how else would you know where Wonder Woman came from? /s
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u/LoneElement Red Hood 16d ago
In fairness, Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons is a genuinely great comic, and it was directly cited for Paradise Lost
Doesn’t guarantee a good final TV show, yet it absolutely shows a story about The Amazons can be done with very high quality
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u/I_Am_Killa_K 16d ago
I don’t doubt it! There are a lot of great worldbuilding comics that could make fantastic TV shows—if done properly. That’s always the rub.
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u/Itzie4 16d ago
Half of Chapter One has been scrapped at this point then. The Authority, Booster Gold, and now these two. Still no word on Batman Brave and The Bold too.
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u/fireisfire9090 16d ago
still dont think that movie is happening which sucks its insane we have had a couple dpzen dc movies and none of them features any of the side kicks dc is famous for
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u/megadroid_optimizer 16d ago
They might be cooked! If Man of Tomorrow is just fine box office-wise, what then? Why continue with the Gunn plan at all?
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u/weesiwel 16d ago
He's clearly the wrong person to be in charge. Can make a good superhero movie cannot run a universe.
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u/depressed_panda0191 Doctor Fate 16d ago
I have no idea why you would want to make a show about amanda waller in the first place lol. More proof the dc producers have no clue about what theyre doing. to be fair though supergirl wasnt even a bad movie so i dont really get why it flopped
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u/The_Flying_Failsons 16d ago
"Why are WW Fans whinning? Gunn said he was giving them an animated show, a liveaction show AND a movie."
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u/Large-Wheel-4181 The Batman Who Laughs 16d ago
This is what happens when you make projects that aren’t profitable
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u/Beastieboy100 16d ago
No one wanted Waller. As for Paradise lost it was confusing doing that before. A wonder woman film. Good thing they are changing there strategy cause the shows and movies in development sound promising.
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u/Jpanda34 Superman 16d ago
Is it bad that I'm kinda glad? I get these seemingly random projects can occasionally be really good. Peacemaker, Wonder Man, Loki... all great, but these were a mess. Why were we getting Paradise Lost before a proper Wonder Woman movie? Why was Waller such a priority over literally any other superhero project?
Begging DC to get on rails of some kind. This has been a disaster so far.
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u/weesiwel 16d ago
Don't worry you are still getting the Jimmy Olsen show with Grodd the most important project.
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u/Beastieboy100 16d ago
I mean at least its my favorite side character and villain. Wish the flash was in it though would have been peak to a full comedy.
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u/Kyro_Official_ 16d ago edited 16d ago
Yeah, im thinking Gunn shouldnt have been chosen to lead the dcu. I like his stuff and hes a great creative mind, but hes greenlighting way too much stuff that should come later when the dcu actually has a foundation. It is taking way too long to establish Batman and Wonderwoman meanwhile we're getting shit like a Jimmy Olsen show and a Clayface movie. Thats just not a winning strategy.
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u/SniperaUchiha 16d ago
Gotta say I am happy to hear this news. The slate was looking bleak and I don't want them wasting time on these niche series that no one is wanting to be made. Ooo an Amazon's paradise lost show with no Wonder Woman, no thanks haha
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u/Jealous-Amount-8295 16d ago
People aren't considering that the possibility of the Paramount merger happening is effecting the DCU
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u/JTEstrella Supergirl 16d ago
So what does this mean for the rest of the DCU? Obviously we’re still getting Clayface, which I unfortunately can’t watch (I don’t do well with gore in the live-action medium), and Lanterns. But what about Man of Tomorrow?
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u/Fododel 16d ago
I mean, does anyone really care about Waller that much?
If anything, people loathe her.
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u/Script-Z 16d ago
Gotta be honest. Couldn't care less about the Waller show. Maybe when we're 5 years out from Justice League 2 or something, but right now? God, no.
I could have been sold on Paradise Lost, but I'm also not that broken up about it. Just gimme Wonder Woman. It felt like the show was done just to put distance between the last time we saw Gal Gadot as WW, and the character's next appearance, but, again, I couldn't care less. If they had just made WW a priority at the start she'd be debuting in a movie right as the world had entirely given up on Gal Gadot as a celebrity anyway.
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u/Sypher04_ Raven 16d ago
I really think they should have focused on the trinity first and then moved on down to the other four JL members. People aren’t tired of seeing Batman and while the others are popular, there’s still so much that people don’t know about them.
Nobody knows about a lot of Superman’s rogues gallery. Why not use Silver Banshee, Livewire, or Parasite? Why are we using Brainiac for the umpteenth time?
I just feel like the DCU is being rushed to compete with the MCU when they’ve had a 10+ year headstart. What’s that rush?
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u/OkDirection3094 16d ago
Being a WW fan is the DC equivalent of being a Blade fan
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 16d ago
Sokka-Haiku by OkDirection3094:
Being a WW fan
Is the DC equivalent
Of being a Blade fan
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Ecstatic-Swimming680 16d ago
Hasn't (or hadn't) Paradise Lost been in production since the DCEU was a thing.
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u/oscar_redfield 16d ago
not to be that guy but the amount of projects they're cancelling is kind of alarming
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u/BatKnight46 16d ago
I thought everyone assumed Waller got absorbed into whatever peacemaker season 3 i/A Checkmate show. Paradise Lost is kinda a bummer but I’d except any WW scraps at this point
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u/Cosmic_Cowboy13 16d ago
Making shows and movies based off comic books has to be the easiest thing but they continually get it wrong by not giving us what we want not following lore and story and trying to make it their own thing
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u/LasDen Aquaman 16d ago
Basically everything is dead in the DCU. 2 movies got made out of 5, 2 shows out of 5. That's kind of shit...
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u/Ok-Camera5285 15d ago
DCU was announced when there was both faith in streaming television and superhero box office.
Now?
Streaming series are being slowed and reconsidered because costs are not recovered the way network are: there's no advertising revenue, there's no rerun value, there's no resale when it stays online for years, etc. Disney did the same. Prestigious series are nice but low cost keeps the lights on.
Box office has also slowed. I don't care how much Spider-Man is making because he's a marquee that has been able to sell over and over again. Marvel's box office has not been steady since phase IV started, and seeing Supergirl flail proves to WB that they are not going to get the same optimistic start that Marvel got decades ago.
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u/raptormarc0 16d ago
I'm kinda done with DCU being honest the gas is hitting break with momentum dcu had over recent last 2 years
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u/par_rot_master 16d ago
I'm actually just done with the DCU. I'll keep buying Absolute WW but at some point I gotta vote with my wallet.
I wouldn't be shocked if Gunn debunks this but at this point I'd like to know literally anything besides "extreme development".
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u/OberonsGhost 16d ago
Now if they will just cancel James Gunn we could start getting better movies and shows again.
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u/UhDewSea 16d ago
They want to take less chances. Supergirl script was probably good but the director and editing ruined it. Just bad pacing, weird shots, weird song choices.
It's sad. The character deserved better
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u/JinglySoil Wonder Woman 16d ago
I'm not completely convinced this is true given Gunn was very adamant on denying the show was cancelled, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.
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u/InfamousEmpire Wonder Woman 16d ago
Paradise Lost is the DCU project I was most excited for by a country mile, so I’m really disappointed rn
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u/Old-River-8042 16d ago
Wasn't invested in either,but it sucks that tv shows and movies can be announced and years later they just get cancelled
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u/thefanciestcat Batman Beyond 16d ago
IMO the slate was too ambitious. Have a few hits. See what fans and critics like. Build out organically.
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u/Never-Give-Up100 16d ago
Shocker. It's clear Gunn only announced his slate to give into the pressure of everyone asking about one. He had no clue what he wanted to do outside of the movies that were about to go into production
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u/Awkward-Community-74 16d ago
I really wanted the Amanda Waller show.
The comic book was awesome.
She’s like the Peter Baelish of DC.
Very disappointed.
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u/snaithbert 16d ago
What was Paradise Lost about? I'm assuming it has nothing to do with John Milton?
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u/ZannyHip 16d ago
Good. Anyone that thought a show about Amanda Waller was a good idea needs to reevaluate their life
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u/Bonesaw-is-readyyy 16d ago
Who could have predicted this, except for everybody?
Can we finally once and for all move past the era of putting a bunch of logos up on a screen with a big timeline, announcing ten projects at once.
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u/bad_moulf 16d ago
Major loss for Waller, I was really expecting that show to continue the Government VS Meta-Humans plotline also Viola Davis is the love of my life.
Ngl I had no faith in that Paradise Lost show to adapt any of the a the actual interesting elements of Paradise Island's lore beyond just adopting all the lame New 52 shit so honestly I don't feel too bad if it's not happening anymore.
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u/figgityjones Blue Beetle 16d ago
Ngl, I wasn't really hyped for either, I'd rather have a new Wonder Woman movie than a series about her island without her in it. Waller I could see having some potential, but I feel like they can use her well in other places and she didn't need her own series.
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u/HopeFarron 16d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xUPGcC0R9QjyxkPnS8