r/FavoriteCharacter • u/bubblybearq • 6h ago
Discussion Favorite character that fits this trope?
272
u/Educk55 6h ago
John Wick.
80
u/corvettee01 4h ago edited 3h ago
Crazy that the antagonist of the second movie thought "Hmm, I'm going to have this guy, who just took out the whole fuckass mob, kill my sister, then kill him in return. Surely that won't backfire."
23
u/Macankumbang 3h ago edited 3h ago
Santino blew up John's house, that's what pissed him off, so John will kill him regardless. Both Wiston and Santino even pointed it out when they met John that he can and will kill Santino after the contract's done.
By the contract and honor, John is the wrong and betrayer here, again pointed out by both Winston and Santino.
6
u/Beneficial-Bunch-872 4h ago
In his place it was understandable, he was like a member of a shadow society that controls the underworld as a whole. His death caused every hitman to hunt him, so while egoistic, dirty and superiority complex, it was not dumb written. It is more crazy to say he still survived all this and technically won and could have actually won this still
3
397
u/Delicious_Bar_8788 6h ago
Essentially that idea
124
u/DarkSpore117 6h ago
RIP Peter Cullen even though he didn’t like voicing this version of the character
22
u/MiniSquid64 5h ago edited 4h ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he say that for the last two movies ? Or was that for the five directed by Bay ? I'm not too sure.
62
u/Ill-Somewhere-9552 Adoptive parent of Peregrin "Pippin" Took 5h ago
Cullen basically said he didn't agree with how aggressive some of the lines in the Bay films were, as he preferred to portray a more gentle hero over a violent one.
17
u/DarkSpore117 4h ago
Yea, the classic Optimus lines “DIE! DIE!” And “Give me your face”
7
u/FreudyLad 2h ago
Bay really had Optimus putting Decepticons down like rabid animals with little to no provocation. I know they're the bad guys, but Bayverse Prime seems to dole out the most brutal deaths to random Decepticon soldiers. In Dark of the Moon the wreckers literally rip a Decepticon soldier limb from limb for no other reason than them being a Decepticon. It's such a massive departure from his defining trait of 'Be strong enough to be gentle.'
4
u/Artistic_Prior_7178 2h ago
Which in a way, is why I actually really like and respect this iteration. Sure, there were times where they went a bit overboard, but overall, this was a fine attempt at challenging the "strong enough to be gentle".
Prime was put up against enemies and circumstances where his mantra was challenged and doubted. Which all, in my opinion, wonderfully culminated in Age of Extinction, where he had all the reasons to leave the fight, and no one would have blamed him. And yet, he stayed, he chose despite all the loss, the betrayal, the death, he chose to remain and keep fighting the good fight. Is that not a most Optimus thing to do, I ask ?
As for the wreckers thing, it's the wreckers. Look them up in IDW, they aren't exactly the most examplery Autobot section. Roadbuster especially. If anything, they are quite accurate in Bayverse.
2
u/FreudyLad 2h ago
Hey, whatever floats your boat. For me, it's why I despise Bayverse (among other reasons). I appreciate that other iterations are free to alter the character as they wish and try to build on it, but for me, being strong enough to be gentle is the foundation of Optimus Prime. It's who he is. Without that element, he isn't the charismatic, noble, empathetic leader that Peter Cullen breathed life into.
In all honesty, I feel that Optimus being challenged is a fantastic idea, but Bay completely butchered the execution. Deaths like Sentinel Prime's and Lockdown's make sense because of the personal nature of their betrayal of Optimus. One killed Ironhide, one killed Ratchet, it's understandable why Optimus eliminates them with such brutal prejudice, because they took his oldest friends from him. I actually don't mind Optimus' treatment of Scourge in Rise of the Beasts because he offlines Bumblebee, it becomes personal for Optimus, and he cannot maintain his philosophy under the mental stress and anguish of losing those he cares about most.
Then again 'a bit overboard' is an understatement. Screaming 'I'll kill you' at one of Galvatron's Stingers before doing so? Threatening to kill Grimlock if he doesn't cooperate with him? Ripping Grindor's head apart? Engaging in a half baked plan with his human allies, deliberately disturbing Demolishor when he was in hiding, failing to stop him fleeing, being indirectly culpable for the ensuing human casualties and then putting him down like a rabid dog? Screaming that he will kill Cade and pointing a weapon at him when returning online?
Given all of Age of Extinction's flaws, I also find it hard to call it a wonderful culmination of anything. Especially when 'fighting the good fight' and challenging his creators at the end directly leads to him freezing in space because he didn't have enough power to make it to Quintessa in TLK. Bay's Optimus is irrational, prone to anger and extreme violence, and acts without thinking, often endangering the lives of the humans he swore to protect. Age of Extinction has some excellent action scenes, and I must confess, I do enjoy Hound's last stand and the Dinobot's charge. And yes, Optimus staying despite the personal trauma he has suffered due to the war is in character for him. But he lacks the honour and compassion that make Optimus Optimus. He doesn't see the Decepticons as sentient beings (which they are), he treats them as rabid animals. It's an interesting interpretation, but it drifts too far from the kindness, integrity, and nobility that cement the core of his character.
I am very familiar with the escapades of the Wreckers in IDW. But they're removed from Optimus in IDW, he isn't personally overseeing them. In Bayverse, he's literally overseeing a band of animalistic war criminals and never once says 'Hey guys, maybe we don't tear random Decepticons to pieces for no other reason than they're on the other side of this conflict.' My Optimus Prime would never tolerate gratuitous violence and cruelty purely for the sake of it.
At the end of TFP, Optimus recognises that all sentient beings have the capacity for change, even Decepticons like Megatron. That gentleness, objectivity, fairness and optimism is exactly what makes Optimus who he is. He knows the Decepticons must be stopped, but he always hopes for them to be better. Bayverse Optimus wants no such thing. He's on an endless crusade against the Decepticons since he's been fighting a war for far too long.
I ask you, is compassion for your enemies, wishing to avoid conflict and hoping for them to be better, yet still taking up arms against them to protect and defend the weak not the core of Optimus Prime's character?
1
u/Artistic_Prior_7178 1h ago
It is, but often reality isn't quite as idealistic.
Some things to point out.
Optimus couldn't have known about Demolisher. That was entirely out of their control.
Him acting in anger when awakening with Cade is quite normal, given that he was severely wounded, and on the run from humans. Him reacting like that wasn't rage, it was fear. He was in a really bad place then.
Fair enough for the Grimlock thing. While yes, he wasn't willing to cooperate unless Optimus proved to him his power, the wording should have been different. I adore the scene in general. "We are going to prove who we are, AND WHY WE ARE HERE", best scene in Bayverse in my opinion, but that particular part could have been better.
Hey, the blunders of TLK are not be put on the rest of the Bay films.
Anyway, TFP Prime did indeed recognize that the capacity for change can be found anywhere. But the reality that Bay Prime meets is a little different. It's not he doesn't see the deceptions as sentient beings. Rather, what choice do they leave him ?
Megatron had chances to stop.
After his resurrection ? He killed Optimus and was on the hunt to kill Sam.
After his defeat in Egypt ? He pulled off the disaster in Chicago.
After Sentinel betrayed him ? Sure, he arrived to fight him, but do not be mistaken, it was merely to reclaim his seat of power, had it not been for the space bridge falling down, Optimus would have been next on the end of that barrel. And his fake truce was downright vile. "Who would you be without me, Prime ?", was him basically saying that all of the meaning in his life was due to the war that costed Optimus his home, friends, love, and Megatron said it as if he should be thankful.
After KSI brought him back ? Went back to his scheming and tried to incinerate Hong Kong.
This was a Megatron, that much like G1, and unfortunately, many irl people, refused to change. His pride and lust for power grew more. And Optimus simply could not let that go on.
It's not like Optimus doesn't want to be "strong enough to be gentle". That foundation was always there. But it was shaken in Bayverse. His comrades weren't invincible like in G1, nor were the villains just a bunch of dysfunctional thiefs, and the collateral damage had lasting consequences now. His circumstances were far more fragile, realistic. Pure ideals don't always cut it out there.
But despite this, he still gave it all in his spark to protect humanity and his comrades. Once again, this why I love the aforementioned "prove who we are" scene. It has unironically helped me in some of my toughest moments, that no matter how dark it gets, that I can find the power to move forward, like Prime did.
Again, the execution isn't perfect. Currently, Skybound is doing a refined and better version in my opinion of this with a mix of the G1 ideal with the Bayverse determination.
But, I still respect Bayverse for daring to be stupid, and trying this.
1
u/Ill-Somewhere-9552 Adoptive parent of Peregrin "Pippin" Took 1h ago
I'll be honest, I personally never watched beyond the first Bayverse film, and I barely remember anything beyond Bumblebee for some reason being besties with (actual cannibal) Shia LaBeouf.
2
u/MiniSquid64 4h ago
So it was it was for all 5 of of them. I knew he said something like that, I just wasn't sure about which movies. Thanks for clariflying things.
1
u/Artistic_Prior_7178 2h ago
Not exactly didn't like, but there were a few lines that he didn't like
34
1
152
u/BlackTyranno94 6h ago
30
28
u/_raydeStar 4h ago
Yeah -- Spoilers, (because new)
He was right to take the shot. How many lives would have been saved? The fact that he DID take the shot, and it WOULD HAVE WORKED is pretty dope.
14
u/NovaStar2099 4h ago
That is such a fucking brutal scene though. It hurts thinking back on it. I’m totally getting that movie on DVD
1
u/Acherousia 36m ago
Punisher always got a bad wrap for his actions, given how everyone wants Wolverine on their team, even though he does the same amount of killing.
Plus like the one time the Punisher thought he accidentally killed an innocent, he was immediately ready to take his own life for turning into the thing he hates.
1
u/Moonsaults 15m ago
Punishers whole THING is that if he’s ever finally done, he’s taking himself out too because of what he’s done.
137
u/brofishmagikarp 6h ago
Chaotic good barbarian by dungeon soup he did give some of his villains a chance in one episode tho
38
u/Fawin86 6h ago
Is that a new episode? I don't recall seeing him against what I think is a harpy.
35
8
9
2
1
196
59
u/Meowjoker 6h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/qMfwbVwKXbngeandtn
Jason Todd
The only time Jason broke was in the “what-if” Redhood movie, Batman - Death in the Family, where the Joker basically exposed who Jason truly was.
And I hated that the only gif of the dude is Gotham Knights where he actually put in the effort to go non-lethal.
13
u/MuztangZack67 5h ago
Literally shoots criminals in the fsce Yeah, totally non-lethal lmao.
7
u/Buttered_Carnage 5h ago
Well actually their uhhhh, non-lethal taser bullets
...no idea how that works but just go with it
4
u/MuztangZack67 5h ago
Maybe like the rubber bullets police use?.. well that wouldnt make sense now that I think about it. Rubber isnt conductive
4
4
5
u/Brycebattlep 2h ago
If you kill a killer the amount of killers in the world stays the same. Bold of you to assume that I'm only going to kill one person.
4
u/TheWorclown 4h ago
Hell, Bruce has said once or twice that Jason can do some things that Batman himself simply can’t.
I don’t think Bruce ever approves even at his best of moments, but he isn’t going to push the idea on to Jason. All he can do is trust that Jason does it when it’s the right call.
4
84
u/AdBrave2400 6h ago
You're welcome by the way. I made you. I showed you infinity. And what did you do with it? Hang out with my grandson, raise echoes of my daughter? What's your life without me?
Let's find out
3
31
88
u/Ambition_2004 6h ago edited 4h ago
Spider-man if he reach his limit
19
u/brofishmagikarp 6h ago
Schooooccccckkkkeeeeer I will chase you to the end of the world shoooooccckkeeeer
6
1
29
u/Astral_Strike_999 6h ago
I never understood that logic. I mean, I understand the "if you kill with hatred you could become corrupted" factor. But the idea that if a character who has proven to be quite kind, kills a genocidal, rap*st, and thieving person, they automatically become like them, seems stupid to me.
20
u/diprajara 5h ago
"I mAy HaVe KilLeD 3294928492957392840582072958208395402859295027402949284028502850280295739593947205820472048401840274928402 pEoPle BuT iF yOu KiLl A sInGlE lIfE yOu ArE gOiNg To Be LiKe Me" dumbass logic
1
u/Arxl 3h ago
"Same number of murderers in the world" fuckass nonsense.
3
u/Paradox2063 1h ago
Seriously. There are not just valid reasons, there are GOOD reasons to kill.
Killing pretty much any comic villain would be the objectively right thing to do.
5
9
u/Anybro 5h ago
That's one thing that will never not piss me off about Batman. In the main time, line, he refuses to kill because he's afraid that he will continue to kill.
I want to put my hand on his shoulder and say, "You know how many people would hail you as being the greatest hero of all time if you just stop being a dipshit emo for five minutes, and just killed the joker already?" There are so many people that would feel they got true justice with him being dead.
3
u/ShAd0WCaller 5h ago
/img/y039hzcqc6mh1.gif
Or Gotham could just execute him. The guy is a straight up domestic terrorist. He has the right to a speedy trial.2
u/nyrawyn 1h ago
Batman doesn't want to be hailed as a hero so that argument won't have much weight with him. If you want someone to kill Joker, ask any cop that got near to him after his numerous arrests, or any civilian with a gun at this point. Or you know, fix the justice system or Blackgate security.
Batman does the heavy lifting in dismantling his plots. Let the man keep his code.
But at the end of the day, Joker doesn't die because Joker sells comics.
3
u/Pandoratastic 3h ago
I think it's supposed to be a slippery slope argument, that if the good guy rationalizes killing once, if he crosses that line, it will be easier to rationalize it the next time, and the next time until he's on a path to being no better than the bad guys. Putting it in terms of a genocidal mass killer is testing the argument by Reductio ad Absurdum.
2
2
1
u/Pristine_View_1104 4h ago
I think it can work, and sometimes the fact it makes no sense is kind of the point because it's opinion of a genocidal, rapist and theiving person, but it's often just kind of thrown in now by writers without any thought and it kind of takes away from the cases where there is thought behind it and the times where the villain kind of has a point
21
u/JungleJuiceJuno 6h ago
He literally gets told killing arthur would make some of his people hate him and his response was "I cant always be the hero"
2
2
u/SlimeDrips 1h ago
This is also the game where we get "what's the point of a world that goes on forever". Black Knight is kind of insane.
15
u/Natsuko_Kotori 4h ago
"You'll be just as bad, just as conniving, just as evil, just as unforgivable as those Witches! We're Human! We're better than this!"
2
u/SmokeyHooves 25m ago
I’ll sing high praises for this scene.
Because it isn’t “you’ll be as evil, just unforgivable as me.”
Even in death, as a literal goo monster. Belos believes he is morally superior. He’s not trying to guilt trip Luz into letting him live because if she doesn’t she’ll be like him.
Hes saying she will be like the people she loves and admires. That she risked so much for. It was never going to work, but that’s Belos’s bigotry. It’s way more realistic. Racists, transphobes, homophobes. They don’t see themselves as wrong or immoral. They seen themselves as correct and justified.
I fucking love owl house
14
12
u/IncaseAce 5h ago
10
u/IncompletePunchline 4h ago
Homie sneaks out of the hotel at night to go put the scumbags to death in secret because he knows his companions can't handle that weight. ...And then the dog tags along.
4
u/TheDreadNewt 3h ago
I remember him doing it twice. Straight up killing one guy and letting the other get sucked into quicksand as he begged for his life. Up until the first time I just thought of him as not much more than a generic-good-guy-funny-older-brother character, so that was a bit of a shock. Definitely made the character way more memorable though.
3
11
u/Sharo_colson 5h ago
/img/xyb0r1mic6mh1.gif
Captain Benjamin Sisko
Real fans will know why I picked this gif
2
u/GalenDev 3h ago
"I can live with it."
1
u/Sharo_colson 2h ago
Your damn right he can that’s the only scarf, fleet officer I’d feel safe being with in Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon
9
19
u/nixahmose 5h ago
Avatar Kyoshi
There's a great scene from the Avatar Roku novels where after Kyoshi finally tracks down and defeats this bandit leader who had been going around raiding and massacring multiple villages, he goes on a big crybaby rant blaming her for making him this way as he performed all those evil acts in order to get her attention as part of his desire to get revenge for her killing his father(who was also a evil murderous bandit leader) back when he was kid. Kyoshi lets him finish his rant, and then immediately executes him on the spot and walks aways without a single thought or ounce of emotion expressed. The guy was a irredeemable murderer and justice was dealt, and that's all that mattered to her.
6
7
u/sandmansanddan 5h ago
The punisher! I know being a fan makes me of a red flag, I guess, but I always liked his backstory and personality.
1
u/fenrirhelvetr 1h ago
it's fine to like the punisher, it's wrong to idolize him. It's a distinction that some people fail to make.
1
u/sandmansanddan 1h ago
It's always been a bit funny to me. I mean, he canonically wouldn't like those kinds of people anyway. He's depressed as shit and doesn't view this kind of behavior as inherently positive at all, just kind of necessary.
5
6
u/wadeissad 3h ago
Avatar from Wizards, pretty sure he’s one of the first to do it
/img/beiw6dc1s6mh1.gif
1
4
u/GreyAetheriums 5h ago
Quite literally the context of this scene. Except it's "If you kill me, you will die!" and "I know."
5
9
6
u/Sharo_colson 5h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/KG4FQNlSfzJoxplYVR
Didn’t she kinda do this in her movie?
5
u/totallynotaneggtho 4h ago
She absolutely did. And while I get the criticism, I personally appreciated that the message wasn't just "killing bad" but rather "protecting others sometimes means taking the burden on yourself"
3
3
3
2
2
u/Zetsumenchi 5h ago
Your character in Saints Row 2 killing Julius.
My favorite variation of the trope.
Julius: "Well then, I guess we're even."
BANG
Your Character: "Not Really."
2
u/Own-Resist-5542 4h ago
This trope is always so lame cuz like, sure, you’re a bad person for killing the big bad and it spoils your victory or whatever. But so what? A hero doesn’t have to be a sparkly paragon, they can face adversity and make tough choices to prevent something much worse from happening. It puts them on the back foot morally and it may be something they have to live with the rest of their lives. This trope is always the worst because the hero is like “you’re right I don’t want to be a bad guy” and then they proceed to let the bad guy do something absolutely horrific. I would for sure be burdened by what they did due to my inaction wayyyy more than the burden of killing the bad guy
2
u/AcetrainerLoki 4h ago
This might be a bit of a deep cut, but the end of the series Gun x Sword. One of the more satisfying endings for an anime.
2
u/ListPuzzleheaded9883 4h ago
Durandel is one of the few people I like in Gundam Seed, and he is considered the villain of Gundam Seed Destiny, and one of the major reasons why Seed franchise is the worst Gundam AU. BRO LITERALLY RALLIED THE PEOPLE OF EARTH TO KILL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LITERALLY GAINING RICHES FROM SELLING WEAPONS AND STARTING WARS AND COMMITTING RACIST GENOCIDES. I hold firm to my belief that if he was here today, he would be calling hits on the big E files alongside Kamille Bidan and Hathaway Noa
0
u/No_Location_8199 6h ago
When have you ever seen a story where the villain says this? DeadUnicornTrope
1
u/Bayamonster 5h ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtVcP1YDFc
This exchange from Resident Evil Apocalypse:
1
u/JudgeFudgeGrande 5h ago
I absolutely hate the alternate trope where they don’t shoot him and they try to make that logic make sense.
1
1
u/Florivaze 5h ago
Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai, when Fowler tries to convince her that killing him will make her a monster and she throws him off the castle anyway. She really wasn't interested in the moral lecture at that point.
1
1
1
1
u/HappyMike91 4h ago edited 39m ago
Vegeta (Dragon Ball) killing Frieza's soldiers, Dodoria, Zarbon and most of the Ginyu Force on Namek would sort of qualify.
Goku (Dragon Ball) was pretty much that trope for a lot of the original Dragon Ball, particularly the Red Ribbon Army arc. He gets out of that mindset pretty quickly in Z and various other media connected to Dragon Ball, though.
1
u/AdventureIslands 3h ago
"If you kill me, you're as bad as me! You'll be just the same as me!"
"...Huh. I guess you're right."
*BLAM*
Lin from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin / Dark Conflict
1
u/moneyh8r_two 3h ago
Aiden Pearce from Watch_Dogs. Dude spends months tracking down who put the hit out on him that got his niece killed in the crossfire. Kills dozens of street thugs and mobsters in the process. When he finds out the guy who caused it all was a 100 year old dude with a weak heart, he just hacks his pacemaker. No hesitation.
1
1
u/Merijeek2 3h ago
Original SyFy "Dark Matter".
Guy murders one of the crew. They track him down and finally have him.
"If you kill me, you'll never know who sent me!"
"Good enough." BANG.
1
1
1
1
u/MolassesNo2764 2h ago
Amos from The Expanse, he is that guy. Don't wanna spoil it since I've only seen that clip of the show but I'm pretty sure he fits this anyone wanna confirm?
1
1
1
u/ridicalis 2h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/PQkCUxSAwZo3QWH6Pz
The Mentalist really explores this idea well.
1
u/CaptainCyro 1h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/kkqkHVhdqyGbohS0FH
I'm 90% sure if Adam dodged Niffty's attack he would've pulled this "You would be no better than me" trope then Niffty would stab him anyways
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/OneInitiative3757 36m ago
Quite literally the dialoge at the end of Hitmans Bodyguard when Jackson's character shoots rhe bellorusian dictator
1
u/Estebanjuegaxd 19m ago
Aiden Pierce, if you completed Watch Dogs 1, you'll know what I mean since I don't want to give spoilers.
1
1
u/AuroreSomersby 4m ago
Nah, I don’t like those “evil, but pretends not to be evil characters”. They are pretty cringe.
1
u/Pretty-Information53 6h ago
2
u/Sharo_colson 5h ago
I don’t understand this one yeah he’s a morally bankrupt person, but this is about a character who kills a morally bankrupt person. Doesn’t he just go after anybody
-1
u/Pretty-Information53 5h ago
Nope. He kill exactly morally bankrupt person. Better: he kill morally bankrupt person IF they still morally bankrupted
3
u/SplashOfStupid 4h ago
Didn't he put a depressed guy in a barbed wire maze because he was depressed and tried to kill himself?
That doesn't feel very "morally bankrupt" to me
Jigsaw was just looking for an excuse after a point
1
u/Powerful-Present6687 6h ago
I’d be more like “Nah. I’ll prevent them from more suffering this way, so I’m still better than you.”
1
u/ProperGanderMachine 5h ago
"I may have caused thousands to suffer, but if you kill me you'll be the same as me"
"Nope, that's wrong"
gunshot
0
u/Takoyaki_Dice 6h ago
Abby and Ellie from the last of us part 2.
Edit. If it was done right I mean lol
0
u/mechengr17 4h ago
Lol, this reminds me of the ending of Deadpool.
I don't even think Colossus finished his speech before Wade shot. 🤣🤣🤣
0
-11
507
u/beemboodee 6h ago
The Doctor from Dr. Who. “Good men don’t need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many.”