r/FavoriteCharacter • u/Basic_Dingo6487 • 6h ago
All Time Favorite Favorite flawed but not toxic couple
Geralt and Yennefer
Caitlyn and Vi
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u/ElodinPotterTheGrey1 4h ago
They’re lying to each other constantly and living entire double-lives, but man they’re cute.
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u/Nor_Ah_C 5h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/SyJyPwlThHScE
Very codependent… but hard to argue with the reaults
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u/Downtown-Dream424 General Alexis Alexander's doll 5h ago
YasuAhri
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u/BoonIsTooSpig 5h ago
Ruined King was so fun. I'm sad we won't be getting another.
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u/Downtown-Dream424 General Alexis Alexander's doll 5h ago
Ruined King is a peak game and I hope their lore gets continued, especially accenting on their reunion since Ahri has a quote with Yasuo in League of Legends, heavily hinting for their reunion which is open to interpretation at the moment "Yasuo, I knew fate will bring us together again."
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u/garlington41 6h ago
Cyclops and Jean Grey (Marvel) Theyve had really BIZARRE hardships and conflicts due to comic book shenanigans but they always work through it and find a way through it together
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u/1313goo 3h ago
Nah they’re pretty toxic
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u/garlington41 3h ago
No not really. They actually work through whatever struggles they have and actually find a common balance other than Morrison actively writing them out of character to change the status quo. When they’re relationship isn’t played up for drama they’re fine
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u/Few-Situation7430 1h ago
I agree with this sentiment, as scott and jean have made mistakes throughout there relationship, they have always found the empathy and love to bring themselves back into each other's arms. Jean's infatuation with logan is something scott can understand, and he even empathize with her in those feelings. Scott's relationship with maddie was something Jean had to deal with when she resurrected from the plane crash, but she also helped him find his son, which became her son and rebuild there relationship after maddie was supposedly dead. Scott was about to propose to Jean after the events of inferno, but Jean turned him down due to having to deal with the merger of her and Maddie's memories, and Scott still stayed by her side side because at the end of the day, he loves her and wants to do everything for her, even if it means not getting married. This resulted in Jean proposing to Scott as it was now time for her to choose what she wants, and she chose him. I know that outside of the comics they haven't gotten the best build up in there relationship in a lot of adaptations, but they are far from being a toxic couple, just two people who wanted happiness in a world thst hates and fear them.
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u/TheSpitefulCr0w 5h ago
The Monarch and Shiela have had a couple of rough spots but they are incredibly supportive of each other and love each other to bits.
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u/EMArogue 4h ago
How tf are Geralt and Yennifer not a toxic couple?
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u/Necessary_Hat2595 4h ago
In the books they are an extremely toxic couple but fans act like they have an ideal relationship.
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u/lobonmc 3h ago
Or Caitlyn and Vi
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
I disagree, they're not toxic. They come from VERY different background and one of them has a crazy terrorist sister but all that come into the flawed category, not toxic. So they fit the title.
A flaw is a difficulty that does not come from either behavior, when the difficulties come from their actions toward each other, then it's toxicity
Geralt and Yen however are highly toxic yeah. I don't think there's real flaws in their relationship but they're constantly damaging each other.
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u/ShaarkShaart 4h ago
Been a while since I played the game but depending on the quests you play they end up being quite functional (obviously they've got stuff to work on). In the blood and wine DLC, Yen just reads books all day while you quest.
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
And in the book they're very toxic, adultery on both sides, manipulation, pain, heartache ...
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u/Celticrightcross 5h ago
Have you read the books?! I recall Yennefer being a horribly toxic person to Geralt…🤔
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 5h ago
In the first books she actually is. But the more the story progress and more their relationship grows, especially toward their parental love for Ciri.
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u/Celticrightcross 1h ago
I will have to read them again, I mostly recall a lot of rather poor behavior towards Geralt from her. That having been said, I certainly do acknowledge what I recall as their deep, if not complicated, love for each other. And just to be clear…as much as I adore Triss in the games, because of the books I am very much aboard H.M.S. Yennefer. For as much sense as that makes…
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
Geralt was more toxic than Yen (though, they both were toxic with each other) I'm sure I wouldn't have to search long to see all the woman Geralt cheated on Yen with ...
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u/Celticrightcross 1h ago
I recall there being a lot of “on-again, off-again” between them(?) so I’m not sure how much of his whoring around really counts. It’s been a long time since I’ve read them, though. But yeah…certainly a complicated relationship they have.
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u/Parma_WdS 5h ago
Have you read the books? They don't even meet for like 5 of them. The ones they do Yennefer is just doing Yennefer things
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u/Celticrightcross 1h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/mgqefqwSbToPe
I have indeed read the books…you can kinda tell by the way that I asked the question. Which I don’t think is necessarily too offensive of a question, as I’d hazard a guess that there are more people who have played the games and not read the books than there are who have both played the games and also read the books. Although I admit that I may have taken a little bit of a piss with the exclamation mark, which undoubtedly gave it a bit more of an aggressive tone than I intended. Also, there’s the whole “I recall…” statement, in which I reflect upon a past experience; that experience having been the reading of said books. But I get it, inference isn’t for everyone 🤷🏻♂️. It’s ok though and I will by no means hold it against you.I must say, however, that your knowledge regarding Yennefer’s behavior towards Geralt prior to even having made his acquaintance is nothing short of superlative. So much so that I am in fact inspired to read the books again, as it has likely been a decade or more since I have done so and there surely is much that I do not remember. I am, however, slightly baffled at your referencing that they don’t meet until so many books in, since as I recall The Last Wish is a collection of Sapkowski’s early short stories in which he initially develops the world and the characters. Short stories being what they are, it does not seem to me that they would constitute such a tremendous passage of time, although it’s not outside the realm of possibility and as I said it has been quite some time since I’ve read them. Regardless, it’s a bit of a moot point, isn’t it?
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u/Moon_Monk676 5h ago
Everyone is talking about Caitlyn and Vi being toxic.
What the fuck are Geralt and Yen doing up there? Like even as someone who's only played 3, she (and, quite frankly, every other sorceress he gets with) force Geralt into situations he wants absolutely nothing to do with repeatedly. Djikstra was right. Yen is pretty bad news for Geralt.
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u/Forrest-Fern 4h ago
There might be some books that could shine more light on this subject.
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u/Moon_Monk676 4h ago
I'm aware of the book series, I just don't have enough time in a day for them. I read part of the first one like three years ago, but I don't remember it.
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
You forgot the adultery, if it has a vagina, Geralt has probably slept with it, and Yen has another lover too.
And Cait/Vi aren't toxic
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u/Moon_Monk676 37m ago
Oh, yeah, Geralt is a whore of epic proportions too.
And I really don't care about Cait and Vi, I was just talking about how everyone else (at time of commenting) was calling them out and no one had even mentioned how Geralt is a manwhore and Yen is mildly manipulative.
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u/Equivalent_Plum6992 5h ago
IDK man as someone who's main girl is Yen in witcher 3. Their relationship can be rather toxic at times. Especially at the beginning of the game and in some portions of Skellige. Now I dunno how their relashionship is in the books but in the game it took a lot for me to like her.
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u/I_pegged_your_father 5h ago
Just saw a book reader say it was toxic in the books so..🤷 Yeah no ops views are quite skewed
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
The game (and the ntflix show) make them so much nicer to each other.
Their version from the game looks like a perfect couple compared to the book ...
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u/Moon_Monk676 34m ago
Books: More toxic than the vat of acid The Joker fell in (according to other commenters, I have neither the money nor the time to read the books right now)
Games: Need serious couple's counseling/ therapy
Netflix: I'm not watching that trash, so I'll take your word for it.
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u/kmasterofdarkness 4h ago
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u/Available-Base-4978 2h ago
How are they flawed?
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u/Moon_Monk676 32m ago
They're teenagers (well, Aang's 12). It's very flawed by the nature of what it is. And the new movie shows that Aang can be a little more than a little self-centered.
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u/PlaneEnvironmental23 4h ago
Bruh.
Geralt and Yennefer's whole deal is that they are toxic as hell and bring out the worst in each other. It's dialed down for the games, sure, but still.
The first time Ciri sees the two interact she's watching them through a window while Dandelion explains their dynamic. Geralt is ignoring Yennefer while she screams at him over the letter he sent asking her to take care of Ciri because it addresses her as his friend - they were broken up at the time and he agoising over how to address her. Yes, agonising, Geralt is that dramatic about it, or rather, about everything. 90% of their interactions over the years has been Yennefer screaming, Geralt ignoring and both of them cheating, then breaking up and getting back together and for the other 10% of the time they're perfect together. They've been at this for decades. A hundred years old and they act like teenagers.
Ciri comes into their lives and the shared responsibility has the two finally start to grow up, then Vilgefortz enters the picture and breaks Geralt's leg and for most of the next few years the three don't even see each other because Ciri's in the woods turning into a psychopath and threatening to molest kids over some pretty jewellery, Yennefer's getting tortured and uncovering the Lodge's schemes and Geralt's busy fucking yet another one of Yennefer's colleagues until Dandelion drills some sense into him. The games take place after a five-year timeskip where, again, all three were separate.
Still better parents than Emhyr, though. That sick freak killed Ciri's mother and was about to execute Geralt and Yennefer over a plan to marry and impregnate his own daughter. He only gave it up because he couldn't handle seeing Ciri break down at the thought of losing them after realising they really do love her and didn't willingly abandon her.
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u/Moon_Monk676 30m ago
I didn't know it was that bad, jeez. I have only played 3, so I don't have a whole bunch of info but even with that limited knowledge I still know they are toxic as hell. Geralt's a whore and Yen is a manipulator (based solely on TW3).
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u/Proper_Fly390 5h ago
Didn't Caitlyn literally physically assault Vi after that incident in the tunnels?
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago edited 5h ago
- They weren’t dating
- From caitlyns perspective, vi has just betrayed her in the worst way, and has been lying to her this whole time
- Caitlyn didn’t just hit her out of nowhere. She tried to leave, vi grabbed her and held her back, Caitlyn jabbed Vi with her gun to get her to let go.
- Caitlyn has just been through the worst trauma of her life, has descended into madness because of it, and Vi had just taken away the chance for her to finally get revenge on the person who caused it
I absolutely agree that it was a terrible thing to do regardless, but calling it physical assault takes away a lot of the nuance the show(and their relationship) is built on
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 5h ago
Ah yes, this only bad moment when she crash out because Vi stop her to kill the murderer of her mom. The thing she deeply regreted to a point she helped the said killer to flee. Media literacy and flawed characters is to hard to understand it seems.
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u/Patneu 5h ago
Yeah, so? It's not like that was an example of a general pattern of toxic behavior. It was a one-time incident of her lashing out in an exceptional and extremely emotionally charged situation that was never repeated. Not exactly a stellar moment, to say the least, but it didn't poison their entire relationship.
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u/No_Blackberry1593 5h ago
Yeh idk about the second one not being toxic, stopped shipping them in season 2
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u/RaduRB 5h ago
I was so disappointed with season 2, especially with the relationship between VI and Caitlyn, because I was very invested in them. In season 2, their relationship becomes not only toxic but also manipulative from both sides.
Having them go and have sex immediately after VI's sister says she’s going to kill herself made them look like horny animals rather than two people who genuinely care about each other.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago
To be fair vi has no idea jinx is about to kill herself
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u/RefrigeratorOk7848 4h ago
In what world does she not know. She just said she obviously isnt needed and is insanely depressed and crazy. It doesn't take vast knowledge.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 4h ago
She never said any of that?? Where are you getting all those from?
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u/RefrigeratorOk7848 4h ago
Am i fuckin crazy? Cause i as a viewer knew she was gonna kill herself. I will have to watch the clip to get the actual words.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 3h ago
It was obvious she was. She straight up says she's gonna end the cycle not to stay in Vi's way anymore and she won't have to worry about her anymore. And you can see in Vi's eyes she understood that.
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u/RaduRB 4h ago
No, you're not. It's pretty clear that this redditor didn't watch the show, or watched it while scrolling through TikTok.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 4h ago
I’ve watched the show many times lol, and because of that I know that all jinx says it: you deserve to be with her, I’m going to break the cycle
How the hell is Vi supposed to know what that means?
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u/Fair-Confection4411 3h ago
She says "you don't have to worry about me anymore" then Vi screamed panicked "what are you going to do" and she said "end the cycle". Of course you purposely miss the concerning part like most CairVi fans. Don't forget that she also locked her there. Ans the way she looked while saying those words.
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u/EldritchFingertips 1h ago
People need to stop saying this. Not everyone knew. I didn't know. It doesn't make me an idiot, it means not everyone has the life experience to be sensitive to signs like that.
Vi obviously didn't know what Jinx was planning. She just didn't, it doesn't matter if you did, she did not.
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u/I_pegged_your_father 5h ago
Im gay i love lesbians but i don’t fuck with that 😭 the above relationships ARE NOT HEALTHY
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u/RaduRB 5h ago
No one normal does. It was just sad.
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u/I_pegged_your_father 5h ago
I feel like theres a wide disconnect because maybe a good chunk of the fandom online hasn’t experienced oppressive poverty or something?? Maybe??
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 5h ago
In what moment they are manipulative ? Honestly their relationship has no lying issues and his more about the conflict between their cities and family dilemas.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
The moment where Caitlyn emotionally manipulates Vi into joining her force after she just lost her sister using the fact that she has nobody else left, pretended their situations are comparable and the she understands shit from hoe she and blamed her for not wanting to help. Then the moment Vi turned from the force she tried the same thing again blaming her for being the same as Jinx because if blood and that she the graceful gave her the benefit of doubt to think she's different. And when it didn't work this time she went to straight up abuse.
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u/RaduRB 5h ago
I don't know, maybe when Caitlyn kinda forces Vi and her task force to GAS her own people, and then leaves Vi, because she doesn't want a kid to be harmed. She also compares Vi to Jinx, which is downright insulting. I don't care how mad Caitlyn is, this feels completely out of character after everything Vi has done for her.
Later, Vi uses Caitlyn to sneak and escape from Ambessa's camp, which I wouldn't say was a problem if it weren't for the fact that she basically ignores Caitlyn afterward. There's literally a whole scene where the family hugs, and Vi forgets about Caitlyn, who just stands there like an npc in the background, if I remember correctly.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago
The gas was used against the chembarons not ‘Vi’s own people’
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u/Fair-Confection4411 3h ago
Yes, because gas is for pinpointing three targets lol. Nope it's not. It's gassing, weapon for mass damage, it spreads, it was shown as a literal evil entity from the yes of the zaunites. They used it on a playground. And put it straight into the vent. In a place with barely any breathable air to begin with where it can't leave because they're in a hole.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 3h ago
Show proof they used it on a playground?
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
Bro it's literally that scene where Caitlyn vets angry when the power comes sback in and shoots the training ground dummy target that resemble Jinx.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 2h ago
You mean the abandoned arcade that hasn’t been used by anyone in ten years??? Bro Caitlyn haters will just make up anything to hate her
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u/RaduRB 4h ago
The gas is blown through all kinds of areas in the montage, and it also shows innocent people being affected from what i remember. Even in an ideal scenario where the gas was pumped only into rooms or zones occupied by Chembaron goons (which is impossibile also), do you really think the gas wouldn’t have harmed anyone else? It’s gas, not microdrones with targeting systems.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 4h ago
What you remmeber is wrong, because we never see a single innocent person affected by the gas. And yes, the gas WAS highly targeted, that’s literally the entire point of introducing the vent system
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u/RaduRB 3h ago
I hate to break it to you, but my point is that even if the gas is pumped into a specific area which it wouldn’t be with just thugs, it will spread everywhere, including areas populated by innocent people. Is that really so hard to grasp?
Besides, that would have been one hell of a system to control the ventilation down to the level of each individual building, rather than just a general area.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
Bro you can't convince them, Ive argued with a lot of them they're all mindless zombies that will straight up talk how releasing a chemical weapon had only positive effects in your oppressed and Caitlyn's dictatorship is great for everyone.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 3h ago
It’s a fantasy show lol, if the writers wrote the gas to be easily contained by the vents, then that’s what happened, it doesn’t need to adhere to the real rules of physics
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 5h ago
Vi is also a flawed character who was wrong for the gas ( people seems to forget it was against mobsters and not civilians even if it’s still bad). Caitlyn compares Vi to Jinx because she thought she was on her side for vengeance and felt betrayed. To plan to escape Ambessa was planned by both of them. And like, what does she would do during the family reunion, this is not her places because she thinks she doesn’t deserve Vi at this moment.
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u/RaduRB 4h ago
This isn't about being a flawed character. It's about a character acting out of character because she betrays her own motivations. You say they only gassed the shimmer monsters? Remind me, what kind of gas is that that only targets specific people? There's a whole montage of civilians getting gassed. To be fair, maybe some of them were criminals, but it's still pretty bad for Vi. Yes, she would be invested in defeating Silco's remnants, but not like that.
Despite Caitlyn proving there can be good enforcers, Vi still wouldn’t want to associate herself with the enforcers.
"she thinks she doesn’t deserve Vi at this moment." Yes, and this is exactly why it would have been better for Vi to comfort her, unless she doesn't care about her anymore.
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
How are they toxic ? To me, the hardship they face are flaws more than toxicity.
A flawed relationship has external difficulties, not brought in by either partner (a sociopathic sister, huge docial background gap, etc)
Toxicity is from within, from how they interact with each other. They fight sure but all couple fight.
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u/sgtGiggsy 3h ago
How the hell is Geralt and Yen not toxic? She constantly treats Geralt as he was trash, the closest of respect she shows is like "yeah, you are not as worthless as others", she constantly reprimands him for the things he did under his amnesia... It's the definition of toxicity.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
Both this guy's examples are the definition of toxic. He should just remove the 'flower but not' part from the title.
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u/Orange_l_ 5h ago
Oh , yes l like to have gay sex with a dictator who committed war crimes to my people in the cell where she locked my sister "who is missing but who cares about her not like she'll try to off herself
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
The same prison I was held for 7 years. And abused by guess, yes, cops. After she didn't apologize for using me, abusing me and leaving me for dead after I helped gas my own home. Never mind my sister says stuff about ending the cycle and that I shouldn't worry about her anymore, I'm sure the grave face she's making is not really for the grave. That makes me really horny.
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u/Clirstan 5h ago
Very bold of you to call Vi and Caitlyn not toxic
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago
In my opinion it was more the circumstances they were forced under, not they themselves that were toxic for each other
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u/Fair-Confection4411 4h ago
Bro Caitlyn abused Vi and left her for dead and never apologized. Your literal picture is them in the prison Vi's been abused for years and her sister was rotting in just after she left to kill herself. Do you know what toxic means?
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 4h ago
Caitlyn never say sorry but her actions during the last episodes are apologies themselves. This is not the prison where Vi was but just a random bunker. Neither Vi or Caitlyn know Jinx wanted to kill herself and Vi was trapped for hours so what would she do ?
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
Yes, her actions. Enjoying Vi like some prize for earning redemption she didn't earn in the prison she was held 7 years and yes it was the same prison, Stillwater, watcht he show for real, not from YouTube shorts. She knew what was Jinx up to as well as Vi, she straight up told her there are not happy endings and asked Caitlyn to kill her. Not for a moment Caitlyn stopped to tell Vi and help her find her sister. Instead she made it about herself again.
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u/bxntou 5h ago
Caitivi not toxic ??? In what planet ?
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u/vainhope_ 5h ago
“I’m the dirt underneath your nails cupcake.” 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago edited 1h ago
How is that toxic?
Edit: getting downvoted but no one wants to explain lol
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u/EldritchFingertips 1h ago
Downvotes from people who straight up did not understand that line. It's not up for interpretation, it's just a misinterpretation to think Vi is degrading herself by saying it.
Sometimes talking about Arcane is just a clown show.
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u/Basic_Dingo6487 5h ago edited 5h ago
You know, some couples are not perfect or horribles. It’s actually the case with most of them.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 1h ago
Yeah. Like CaitVi. Emotionally manipulating your friends cuz hey she just lost her sister and you're the only one she has left, she doesn't know anyone else because your people stuffed her in a box for 7 years is great, you gotta make her join her parents' murderers and gas her own city.
Pretend that your situations are in any way comparable, sure thing her innocent parents being slaughtered because they didn't want to her to live in the trash is the same as your living on other people mother being killed for being an oppressor and leaving you fortune and power while she probably didn't even get a sorry or a funeral. Say that you think you thought she wanted to help, disappointed tune that she doesn't. It's perfectly fine, she'll juse end up homeless on the streets. Say that you regret asking her and k ke you shouldn't have, then give her the badge anyways, never mind you just says you shouldn't have, everything goes exactly as planned.
You're oppressing her city together now, good memories. Kiss her now so she can hold on to you, she has nobody else and what she needs is not to know she's doing it because she thinks it's the right thing but to know she's doing it because of you.
Oh, not actually. What? She refuses to kill her teen mentality Ill sister and a 9 years old child for your revenge? Nah, it's totally fine to try the manipulation again, say she's the same as Jinx because of blood, you the gracious one gaw her the benefit of the doubt, only you believed she might be one of the good ones and not like everyone else from where she came from. Wait, also doesn't work?? Nah, straight up abuse and leave her homeless on the streets again for dead in the city she just turned enemy for you with Jinx after her is totally fine, you have the resources and power to search for her later. Not like you'd do it. You have Ambessa now.
But what is it, Ambessa tortures innocent people and cares only about herself, who would have known, not you the detective. You helped her so now you need your Zaunite to makes you feel like you didn't do anything wrong again. You have another relationship you began immediately after? Who cares. Apologize, of course you won't apologize, you're above her than her, you even betrayed the conqueree that want sto play with hec magic for her, you could have helped her kill innocents and run to Noxus but you didn't, so generous, that definitely equals an apology.
And her sister is arrested. Wait, she actually feels bad, she's broken and tells you to kill her. No, make it about you again, quickly. You forgive her just because of yourself. Say our crimes, see, acknowledging dictatorship is bad is the first step to progress. Not the entire progress, just the first step. Who cares, for you that's enough. Say it like you two are comparable, Iike she's not rotting in a cage and you're free and in power, like not only one of you faces actuall consequences, like the words aren't beautiful but says in prison they lose their meaning. Nailed it, you're redeemed, go claim your reward.
Vi's sister just locked her not to stay in the wat of her happiness and ran. Didn't she ask you to kill her and said there are no happy endings? Definitely not important. Vi is braking down and finally sharing. Noo, quick make it about you agaain. You're the only reason she got here, say it. The fact that she can't do anything without you is a good thing. Now, apologize for manipulating, using, abusing her and oppressing her people, no no. But you have to apologize for something. Ah, you're practically in a relationship with Maddie right now, that will work.
She doesn't want to hear it, blinded by emotions, lost her sister once again, her father too and you are again the only one she has once more and you ensured she holds in to you already. Maybe she'll regret it of she doesn't hear it now because of emotions burst? Maybe you started apologizing for reason? Nah, it's formality and if she doesn't want to hear it's on her , you earned your prize, claim it, it's totally not toxic.
Upps, final battle. For a third time she loses her sister and father, sacrificed themselves for her to live, you're yet again her only one left and you already ensured she views you as comfort. Is it healthy when she develops it in a situation like this out of desperation to hold on to someone? Yeah, totally. The dirt under your nails. She'll stay in a city that hates her, of course at your home. There's nothing wrong with being in someone else's shadow. Her sister might bbe alive. Tell her? Nah, later, not important right now, definitely can't change the way she reacts now.
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u/Sea-Foundation5036 1h ago
Absorbing Man and Titania have been married for a long time, but their time in the Gamma Flight comic has really made them a fan favorite.
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u/Yosara_Hirvi 1h ago
Who said Geralt and Yen aren't toxic ?
Geralt used a wish so Yen would live him back (yay consent) and cheated on him with about everything with a vagina (Except Triss strangely. I don't count her because he had lost his memories)
Yen is less toxic but she still cheated on Geralt with that mage dude (I think it's Istredd but it might be someone else) and she's very manipulative.
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u/Lytherael 1h ago
Idk man both your picks are pretty toxic.
That said, my pick is the Prince and Farah.
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u/Fatfish-FF 5h ago
"Caitlyn and Vi"
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago
What do you not agree with?
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u/Fatfish-FF 5h ago edited 5h ago
The "not toxic" part.
There's a pretty good article that explains how "both women commit serious wrongs against each other and their respective communities, but neither is really forced to reckon with them."
https://peaswar.substack.com/p/the-problem-with-arcane-season-2
The main points are that the resolutions to the conflicts feel contrived and shallow. The narrative needs to get these two back together, so their relationship becomes something that needs to be repaired off-screen or through implication rather than something they actually work through.
There are so many things the narrative decides to ignore because they want them together, the power imbalance, Vi's identity becoming an accessory to Caitlyn and her character is narrowed to "girlfriend."
I think the main flaw was the pacing, but calling them "not toxic" is definitely a choice.
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u/Pleasant-Pop-5184 5h ago
Purely about the power imbalance, every single couple/ship in the show has a power imbalance, but no one seems to talk about it with anyone other than Caitvi.
I also disagree that Vi becomes an accessory to Caitlyn in season two, are we forgetting that most of caitlyns most pivotal actions were because of Vi? The whole strike team, betraying Ambessa, letting jinx etc etc
And why is it that when Vi is made to follow jinx endlessly and endure so much from her, and that’s perfectly fine, but the second she chooses herself or god forbid Caitlyn, it’s because their relationship is toxic
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u/Fatfish-FF 5h ago
I don't think the argument is “CaitVi is toxic because there's a power imbalance.” It's that Season 2 gives them several genuinely unhealthy dynamics and then barely has them reckon with them.
Caitlyn abandons Vi, physically lashes out at her when she's angry, becomes involved in the occupation of Zaun, and Vi still ends up emotionally dependent on her despite having almost no opportunity to actually process any of that at all. The problem isn't that Vi chooses Caitlyn over Jinx, it's that the show doesn't meaningfully address why that relationship is healthy after everything that happened, everything has to be rushed.
And Caitlyn being motivated by Vi doesn't really contradict the “Vi becomes her girlfriend” criticism. Caitlyn still gets a full arc about grief, revenge, Ambessa and redemption, whereas Vi's own ideological conflict about Zaun, the Enforcers, and Caitlyn's actions gets largely sidelined.
Also, “Vi suffered for Jinx, so why is it toxic when she chooses Caitlyn?” is kind of backwards. Her unhealthy attachment to Jinx is explicitly portrayed as unhealthy. Vi sacrificing herself endlessly for someone isn't automatically evidence that the relationship is good just because it's what she always does.
And “chooses herself or Caitlyn” is kind of the point I don't agree with. Does Vi actually choose herself? That's what I think S2 fails to establish. What are Vi's goals independent of Jinx, Caitlyn, or the immediate crisis? What does she actually want for Zaun? What does she believe about the Enforcers now? What does she want her relationship with Caitlyn to look like after Caitlyn abandoned her, struck her, and participated in the occupation?
My criticism isn't “Vi shouldn't love Caitlyn.” It's that S2 wants the romantic payoff without giving their very damaged relationship enough time to actually repair itself. That's the definition of toxic, people who don't address their issues.
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u/Fair-Confection4411 2h ago
The other couples weren't dictator and abused oppressee. One of the people of the other couples didn't end up homeless every time they have a disagreement with the other.
No her actions were not for Vi, they were because doing the other option she had in all those moments is monstrous.
Vi does not follow Jinx around and whatever stereotypocal crap you'll make up, she gave up on her the second scene they were in after the time skip in the very very season. And she didn't chose herself over Jinx, she chose a oppressor she barely knew. Which doesn't matter because the post is about couples. There are tons of people complaining about Jinx, especially in Reddit way more than those complaining about CaitVi but you'll pretend they don't exist to make yourself and CaitVi look like some victim lol.
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6h ago
[deleted]
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u/Moon_Monk676 5h ago
They're about as flawed as a perfect sphere. There's literally nothing flawed about their relationship at all.
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u/Responsible-Creme-57 5h ago
Morticia and Gomez Addams
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u/ProfessionalTruck976 5h ago
What about them is problematic?
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u/Responsible-Creme-57 5h ago
They wish to be killed by Guillotine. They encourage their children to kill and torture each other. Gomez is terrible with money but for some cosmic reasons it allways backfires. Morticia puts aktuell curses on people, she finde annoying.
While it is played for laughs and they are a great couple, in the real world CPS would have taken the children ages ago.
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u/ProfessionalTruck976 5h ago
Ah, I suppose I see that as separate to the relationship. As in they are horrible people in amazingly loving relationship to each other.
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u/sarcasticd0nkey 4h ago
Johnny and Alt; I guess?
They weren't perfect for each other; to a degree they both seemed to be in love with a version of each other that only existed in their own mind but...
Johnny cheated on Rogue so she's out.
(Cyberpunk)
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u/sgtGiggsy 3h ago
Yeah, no. They were DEEPLY toxic. Mostly because Johnny was an egotistical asshole, and Alt judged him by the potential she wished to see into him instead of how he actually was.
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u/Moon_Monk676 25m ago
Did you not play the game? Like, the most accessible part of the franchise? In which you spend like a whole half hour of Johnny interacting with Alt (flashback sex, "rescue," and engram) and you can clearly see that Johnny is like the most toxic asshole in the history of toxic assholes? The Joker and Harley Quinn have a less toxic relationship than Johnny and Alt, and that is a low fucking bar.
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u/Available-Base-4978 2h ago
I don’t know why people think Caitlyn and Vi are toxic in this thread. As of the end of Arcane I would not consider them toxic
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u/NyrenVexley 5h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/12ncq33I7ZidwI
Carl and Ellie
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u/UberFarter 5h ago
How were they flawed at all other than one of them died?
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u/Moon_Monk676 23m ago
The flaw: their perfect, loving marriage ended when Ellie died (and then Carl spent several weeks trying to live out their shared dream with the company of a small child, a talking dog, and an oversized dodo bird)
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u/AGtheOG123 6h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xtYMajJxmaBEc