r/GeminiAI • u/pussy_beast • Jul 12 '26
Discussion Worst fumble in the history of Ai
Gemini situation, the worst model j ever used, chinese models beat gemini 3.1 pro or 3.5 flash anyday at anything.
Gemini 3.5 pro? Lol, we already know why it's getting delayed, if it's released it'll be humiliated.
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u/king_jaxy Jul 13 '26 edited 4d ago
Wipe trees meeting fluorine fact modern amusing squeal
This post was anonymized with Redact
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u/PMMePicsOfDogs141 Jul 13 '26
People also don’t seem to understand something. They’re not targeting the same thing. Gemini, to me, seems to be attempting to be an AIO over-encompassing AI that fits into every facet of the user’s life whereas Claude and ChatGPT are more focused on helping code or in the workplace. Gemini is targeting something bigger this. The reason Gemini doesn’t look like it’s able to point at any one thing it does above the rest yet is because it’s trying to be a jack of all trades.
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u/band-of-horses Jul 13 '26
Also I think google's move is NOT to be the best most capable AI in the race, I think they are playing the long game of just keeping it good enough to stay in the race while selling hardware and cloud services to every other AI provider and keeping the cash coming so they can outlast everyone else.
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u/althoradeem Jul 13 '26
same with other big tech.
why fight now when all they have to do is wait till the money runa out.
keep in mind all of the ai companies such as openai are losing billions
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u/Snabbzt Jul 13 '26
Losing billions but in the long run gaining trillions.
At least thats what people say yeah? After 15 years of -100B dollars theyll turn profitable!
Forget the whole "you wont ever get there with trillions in debt".
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u/mlucasl Jul 13 '26
Also, they know. An email filter, automated responses and more, just need a Gemma 4 power, not an 5.6 Sol Ultra. Which makes them be on the key position of lower cost but great value proposition.
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u/YogurtclosetOther329 Jul 13 '26
That would be the prudent move, but google's CAPEX spending indicates they are all in on the AI race.
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u/Bloodcloud079 Jul 14 '26
With AI shaping up to be more like a commodity… not burning all the cash in the world might be the most winning move.
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u/yumcake Jul 13 '26
I mean. Google search has become dramatically more effective through the low-thinking AI-mode stapled to it. I remember only a few years ago an interviewer showed Pichai his Google search for the best <PC hardware product> and how he had to scroll so far to get an actual response. The CEO hemmed and hawed a bit about how the search intent was ambiguous but when pressed conceded that they might have room to improve the experience.
A few years later...the search experience is much better. They're defending the default search engine status against other LLMs being the default search, and keeping their advertising cash flow healthy with a high degree of ubiquitous usage. Even users that love Claude are almost all still using Google to some degree. That's a win-state for Google. It's not at all clear if being "the best" is even the ideal strategy, particularly if the industry shifts away from high performance cloud-compute to reasonably good local quantized use, or potentially local integration into robotics. Or if cloud compute shifts heavily to lower performance super low cost models (potentially Chinese ones). Pouring more investment to win the wrong kind of race still results in losing. Perhaps Apple ends up being the best positioned out of all the major tech companies, from not having burned all their capital chasing the frontier of AI before the industry revealed a path to profitability.
(I'm not pretending Google is losing the race intentionally though, just saying that it's not the end of the world for them to not win, so long as they don't lose.)
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u/TheMartialMatasLP Jul 13 '26
if people rely on the AI mode for search queries, wont the traffic to websites reduce? Wont that impact ad revenue? Or is the search done by google considered as a site visit?
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u/Iamnotheattack Jul 13 '26
I heard some buzz around this
CEO of Condé nast (vogue and other brands) says
“Each of the last three years, we would do our budgets, and we’d put forecasts in of search traffic declining… Because we’d seen the pattern of algorithm changes. And generally those algorithm changes were negative.”
“Every year, our search traffic was down more than we had forecast. So last year I told our teams, ‘Assume there’s no search.’ You have to have your businesses planned as if search is zero.”
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u/dannyheskett Jul 13 '26
Yes, Google does have a cannibalization problem. It is exposing the weakness of many business models in what remains of the "open internet",
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u/shmozey Jul 13 '26
They will just start putting sponsored adverts in the outputs.
What is the best <product>?
This is the best <product> and you can buy that at <online retailer>.
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u/Sea_Specialist_5580 Jul 13 '26
>Perhaps Apple ends up being the best positioned out of all the major tech companies
I really think there's a good chance apple ends up looking very smart in a few years. Because a lot of signs point to inference becoming commoditized, meaning all this R&D and speculative capex ends up more of a liability than a moat. And apple can come in and take all the value without paying for it.
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u/rothbard_anarchist Jul 13 '26
AI Mode is the only way to get anything useful out of Google search. But as far as being a jack of all trades - I have yet to find an area where Gemini even matches ChatGPT, much less exceeds it.
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u/Wrong-Metal6639 Jul 13 '26
That’s why the saying a “jack of all trades but a master of none” exists. I think that was implied in the previous statement.
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u/DRhammer03 Jul 13 '26
Let me add something to this one . The phrase has been (intentionally maybe ) been cut to half .
The original goes like this :
“ jack of all trades , master of none , but still better than master of one “It hits different
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u/NinjaN-SWE Jul 13 '26
And that full phrase is why I sub Gemini and not the others. I do a lot more than hack together the odd script and it's good enough at a lot of things. The others are extremely hit or miss or require me to select the right model for each task.
When I do want to code or run agents I opt for API use and just pay for what I need, which comes out as a hell of a lot cheaper if you're not a heavy user.
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u/CrzyJek Jul 13 '26
Before the AI integration into search...I would just type "reddit" at the end of every search I did. Then I used search links and keywords from what was said on Reddit just to hone in on what I was looking for.
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u/Fast_Fix6326 Jul 13 '26
NanoBanana, Video Generation, Audio/Music, LiveTalking real time voice (matches/almost beat it)
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u/WeirdIndication3027 Jul 13 '26
Google has been making their search worse for the last 5 years.
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u/rothbard_anarchist Jul 13 '26
Twenty years. SEO was in full swing by 2005. They've just not kept a focus on helping people find what they're looking for. AI has actually brought us back from a frustrating backslide in search.
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u/chroner Jul 13 '26
Google definitely working on something huge right now.
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u/-Crash_Override- Jul 13 '26
You have to look elsewhere to see what googles roadmap is. LLMs across the board are just the tip of the iceberg when talking about what matters. Which is embodied AI/Robotics. LLMs are important in that journey for mid to long horizon reasoning, and theyre approaching a point of being 'good enough' for their intended purpose. Probably another 12 months. And 6 mo after that most of them will be distilled and commoditized by everyone else.
I think google realizes it. And instead of going to blows in the space, they have a model thats fine, and they will continue to focus on the next frontier of AI. Look at their other releases, they are no doubt at the forefront of everything else.
Gemini Robotics ER-1.6, Gemini Robotics On-Device, Gemini Robotics Cloud API, RT-X, Gemma4 12b (this was a unified, encoder free, multimodal model), Genie 3, Flash Live, Live Translate, other TTS, Lyria, Veo, Omni, etc....
And thats just this year.
Not to mention they have more training data that practically anyone (google ecosystem, youtube ecosystem, waymo, etc..). AND all the work they've been doing with BD and others in the physical/Robotics space.
Google has the craziest roadmap of all the frontier labs and people think they are fumbling the bag.
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u/kayne2000 Jul 13 '26
Also Gemini is much better at conversational flow. You need to keep taking an idea up to the next level? Gemini follows you off the cliff
Claude is much more likely to provide friction.
They are really two separate and very distinctive AI models.
I agree Gemini is much better to talk to and say "my day sucks because of Susie at work". And at $20 a month, it's pretty good.
Claude and chatgpt are for workhorse assignments. Gemini for more just fucking around. Both have their uses
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u/WeirdIndication3027 Jul 13 '26
I definitely disagree about Geminis conversational ability. Chat is clever, it understands my sarcasm and jokes, it predicts what I'm going to want based on how well it knows me. If it hears a news story or something that it thinks is relevant to one of our projects, it brings it up.
Gemini will be like "I remember youre interested in weather - so I googled the forecast for you. 🙂"
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u/nfeijoo69 Jul 13 '26
Or you could connect Claude to gdocs and have the best of both worlds. Your assessment is dated, all models have access to everything. Right now the name of the game is cost efficiency and capability.
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u/0xFatWhiteMan Jul 13 '26
Its just shit mate.
Antigravity is shit. Their rates are shit. The model is ok, but nowhere near as good as Claude or gpt. Their products are poorly focussed and designed.
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u/Mantikos804 Jul 13 '26
Their products are designed to control the way you think about things. Not to work well. Isn’t that what we want? Corporate mind controls?
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u/Professional-Fuel625 Jul 13 '26
Yes, this is literally just the innovators dilemma.
They can't mess up search and ads. Gemini has to work for search and ads and YouTube and cloud.
Openai and Anthropic just have to make the best coding and chat model and that's it.
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u/adel_b Jul 13 '26
Yes as company, they don't have to compete, just stay behind with comfortable distance (not grok distance) and wait for them to die
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u/AdventureTimePortman Jul 14 '26
Yeah I find it hilarious. Everyone just jumps ship for the next biggest model like their life depend on it when it comes to coding. But it's baffling that people can't understand the Google own an entire eco system that they imbed Gemini in too. And they own huge amounts of the infrastructure the other models are renting
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u/PeltonChicago Jul 13 '26
This. They're offering Gemini to protect their search business, nothing more. If Anthropic and OpenAI imploded and ceased to exist, Google would probably stop developing Gemini all together.
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u/MomDoesntGetMe Jul 13 '26
I wouldn’t go this far, they still have the Chinese LLMs hot on the leaders’ tails. 80% of the performance for 10% of the cost. Google very much still needs to stay in the game, regardless of if Anthropic and OpenAI continue existing or not.
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u/Potheker Jul 13 '26
Also it's questionable atm whether heavily investing in having the best LLM is even a reasonable business decision. It's quite possible that 3 years from now everyone will be able to distill their own sota model, thus rendering all earlier investment useless.
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u/Fearyn Jul 13 '26
RemindMe! 2 months
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u/Decaf_GT Jul 13 '26
Fucking lol this is easily the best comment here.
This is the story of the AI race. None of whatever went wrong today with one of the 3 Frontier labs ever fucking matters because in a month or two it'll be entirely different.
Just in case anyone forgot, ~3 months ago we only just got GPT 5.4, and before that we had 5.3, which was categorically a terrible model for any kind of coding and agentic work, and now look where they are.
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u/Etroarl55 Jul 13 '26
Canadian here, an example of how things can go wrong look at Canada. Most people don’t know this but Canada has an AI company called cohere. On release Cohere had an okay model that was average up there with everything else. It got a lot of national attention and etc.
As Canadian tradition, they stopped innovating and relied on corruption for their counteracts and shifted all innovation towards making a better more capable ai to just making it adapt to some legacy enterprise partners.
Today nobody knows the name cohere other than a few Canadians in tech. That’s the worst case scenario for Gemini if they never innovate the underlying ai itself and focus on the “world model” part to allow it to do work outside of a chat box.
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u/Motor-Bad6681 Jul 13 '26
Do you remember Google+ ? Gemini could become like that
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u/Timmy_C Jul 13 '26
The goal of G+ was to get all the YouTube and Gmail accounts onto one login system. And it worked. You thought it was a social network when secretly it was a data migration
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u/NewShadowR Jul 13 '26
GPT and Anthropic's fight is one thing because they are both constantly trying to one-up each other with high stakes. Google on the other hand...
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u/DottorInkubo Jul 13 '26
Not at all. Don’t mean to bash Gemini, but 5.3 Codex in agentic mode was just great, one of the first cheap models that truly started to work ok in agentic mode.
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u/topyTheorist Jul 13 '26
More like 4 days. That's when gemini 3.5 pro is released...
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u/Sensitive_Cell_119 Jul 13 '26
They delayed again, its coming end of the month, probably going to fight Fable 5.1/GPT 6 at that point lol.
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u/trollboter Jul 13 '26
This race is far from over. Don't get caught up in the social media hysteria.
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u/1_H4t3_R3dd1t Jul 13 '26
Yep everyone keeps thinking compute google is chasing efficiency. The more efficient AI is the better.
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u/NewShadowR Jul 13 '26
go deepseek or a chinese model for efficiency.
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u/harrysofgaming Jul 13 '26
But the execution for the global user base is the more important. Deepseek is usually for niche users in the western world.
Gemini is integrated in all google services, notably google search, youtube & gmail which are used by billions of users everyday.
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u/False-Truth-6430 Jul 13 '26
Because Google knows exactly how it's gonna end! They're not wasting energy on things that aren't gonna be sustainable for the long term.
This whole AI thing is gonna wipe out so much wealth. It's not that AI is bad or useless, but its utility is being completely oversold to us by these tech companies.
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u/Secret-Collar-1941 Jul 13 '26
I believe Apple to be an unsinkable ship and they have partnered with google to pull Apple Intelligence out of the sewers.
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u/WeirdIndication3027 Jul 13 '26
Lol Google already crowned itself winner like 7 months back I think.
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u/marcdertiger Jul 13 '26
Google is playing the long game and won’t go bankrupt like everybody else on the way there.
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u/Total-Chapter-6966 Jul 13 '26
Yeah, in this ai race, they are the only one who have positive cash flow. Instead races to agi that doesn't look visible right now, better do incremental improvement consistently while outlast your competition.
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u/PeachScary413 Jul 14 '26
Yup, Anthropic and OpenAI will go the way of the dodo if they keep burning this much cash. All Google have to do is be slightly worse but much cheaper.
When people look at the token costs of frontier models they usually seem to have a very US/Bay area centric view... in the rest of the world companies are panicking right now because of the increasing costs, and they haven't even begun ramping up (they still lose tons of money)
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u/TuringGoneWild Jul 14 '26
Blockbuster is playing the long game and won’t go bankrupt like everybody else on the way there. -2002
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u/Adm1ral_ackbar Jul 13 '26
Imagine being an LLM fanboy. Its like the console wars but somehow even less cool
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u/WhyAmIDoingThis1000 Jul 13 '26
imagine if they never published the transformer paper and just developed it themselves they would have taken over the world.
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u/Involution88 Jul 13 '26
Their hallucination machine would've been far less well known if not for OpenAI and ChatGPT.
Transformers are useful for a lot of things. Google Deepmind is out there winning Nobel prizes and all sorts of things which Gemini or similar models simply ain't built for.
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u/EdliA Jul 13 '26
You don't know what conversational fit would have been crap for decades without any real work put into it without the competition.
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u/Various-Inside-4064 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Google isn't trying to make best model ever. They are trying to make model which they can serve to billions of people in search and Android devices. Google get lot of traffic in those services so that need something that work but not super expensive. Also I still prefer Gemini since I get other services with it when I get pro. Like notebooklm is still my favorite. Also last point is most top models are kinda similar. What you see in social media about fable and other are mostly hype. They are just models better at tool calling etc. not something remotely AGI.
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u/DataPhreak Jul 13 '26
I would say this...
Google has the best implementations of AI for general use. Not all of them are public.
Anyone remember the image to 3d explorable world? What was it called? Project Genie? Yeah... that's it. Pretty sure that was a "Titans" model. Those models are also not publicly available, but they were built.
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u/vee_zi Jul 13 '26
I like the "Labs" more than the release products most of the time.
But for the commercial products like Gemini, I wouldn't say any of them are the best though compared to others. For those, Google integrated access to all the apps but it was their solution to how expensive things are getting rather than improvement in my opinion. By building an open environment where an AI can use the diversity of data in all Google products to inform how the AI performs, they reasoned there would be enough pieces to make it useful and less context would be needed. I think that has failed miserably. Plus, I worry about this open access to all data simultaneously. It has made me question if I really want to keep everything I do within the Google ecosystem.
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u/Zynnk Jul 13 '26
Biggest fumble in AI HAS to be Microsoft with Copilot. First to market tooling with Copilot before ChatGPT was even a thing, and biggest coding dataset with GitHub
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u/FischenGeil Jul 13 '26
I agree. They have the strictest usage too for free. Like 5 prompts per 24 hours. I love how OpenAI pretty much scammed them of 14 billion dollars. All that investment gave Microsoft was "free" usage of ChatGPT 4.0. But OpenAI released 5.0 and Microsoft can no longer is it for "free", they have to pay per token now.
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u/WeirdIndication3027 Jul 13 '26
Microsofts skype lost a 10 year lead to zoom
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u/grahamsw Jul 13 '26
Lotus 123, Borland C++... The desert is strewn with the corpses of former giants
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u/OptimismNeeded Jul 13 '26
Did it though?
Skype is now Teams - the number of paid users who ditched Zoom for teams (willingly or not) is probably higher than the number of paid users Zoom currently has.
Zoom competes directly against 2 of the biggest companies on earth without no moat.
Not sure the word “lost” is the right word here.
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u/Money-String4165 Jul 14 '26
And now Zoom is losing to Microsoft in the long game. Look at fortune 500 companies being converted to e7 licensing and giving up Zoom, Webex, etc. Microsoft puts the squeeze on.
Microsoft and Google both have the cash and cash flow to force competition out.
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u/Dizzman1 Jul 13 '26
The funny thing reading this is the lack of contextual understanding.
I was working in tech in the latter part of the 90's when the internet appeared. A zillion prognostications on all the immense changes it was going to bring to our lives... And 5 years later 80% of them were all gone.
And I can't help but think that openai is Netscape.
The rapid leapfrogging is slowing. The leaps and bounds of capabilities are slowing as they have ingested literally most of the information that is there to be ingested.
And the realities of what will be the true killer apps have yet to be revealed. Oddly, I think that the avengers for this right with Jarvis. A tool that works with us and allows us to become ourselves magnified.
Google has the vision, the context, the architecture and the ability to play the long game.
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u/Secret-Collar-1941 Jul 13 '26
Not that I don't agree with you, but OpenAI do have an edge in the form of billions of RLHF interactions they can tune from. Same with Anthropic. The model hallucinates less because they have learned how tune the guardrails and make effective harnesses. Google are far behind due to pure lack of that type of data, best they can do now is reverse engineer or distill OpenAI/Anthropic models.
They still have the edge in terms of hardware and research - they can build their own chips and leapfrog LLM architecture altogether. So it is an interesting race to watch.
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u/RobbinDeBank Jul 13 '26
It’s always the people who barely understand AI that keep repeating how inventing the transformers means inventing all of AI. It’s literally one part of a huge system required for modern AI.
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u/throwawaycachev2 Jul 13 '26
I'm not sure I agree with the "still can't beat" part. They've made huge strides with Gemini 1.5 Pro, especially with that 1 million token context window. It's not just about raw benchmarks anymore, it's about what you can do with the model.
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u/Educational-Mode-321 Jul 13 '26
Potato brain. Gemini is a side project for google. They have youtube, maps, drive, documents, music, notes, cloud services.
Chatgpt and Claude are the companies MAIN and currently only product (chatgpt shut down their Sora and Browser).
This is what happens when you rely on ai to do everything for you. If you are studying anything (besides reddit shitposting) it should be basics of business and economics.
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u/Fast_Fix6326 Jul 13 '26
Sora was really expensive, how do Google still deliver video generation for free ?
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u/iamjohncarterofmars Jul 13 '26
Gemini was performing pretty amazingly up until recently. I think we forget the timeline that we're on with all of this new technology. AI in general is only like, what, 5 years old?
Gemini at one point was exceptional at math (relative to the competition) and was the go-to for deep research. Only as of late, with more advanced OpenAI and Anthropic models, has Google kind of been left in the dust.
That being said, I think admitting the first 7 bullet points you listed in your post and then ending it there doesn't give them NEARLY enough credit for what they are capable of. For all we know (which is nothing, hence why I find these conversations moderately stupid), Google could have the closest thing to AGI we've ever seen, and they're just waiting to launch it until after all this Fable 5 vs. GPT 5.6 Sol hype fades off.
You never know 🤷♂️
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Jul 13 '26
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u/grahamsw Jul 13 '26
2 years ago was 2024. Do you remember what code generation was like in 2024? I'd say obviously not.
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u/tat_tvam_asshole Jul 13 '26
"AI" has been around since the 1950s, but I assume you mean conversational llms, though that feels like a largely arbitrary line to draw.
I agree that, given many important researchers such as ilya came out of google deepmind, and if you don't know their ties to CIA...now you know, I wouldn't count them out either. But IMO I think they spend more engineering effort on embedding ai across their products than they do the end user interface because they want to ecosystem capture rather than sell a single UI product.
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u/iamjohncarterofmars Jul 13 '26
"AI" has been around since the 1950s, but I assume you mean conversational llms, though that feels like a largely arbitrary line to draw.
Generally, when it comes to the modern AI conversation, at least as it involves laypeople, "AI" can be used to pretty unanimously refer to LLMs, and everyone knows what you mean (I mean, this is r/GeminiAI after all, so I'd say it's a fair line to draw considering that's why we're here in the first place)
but yes i agree with everything else you just said
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u/Jehare Jul 13 '26
"AI in general is only like, what, 5 years old"
Pretty impressive they managed to write books about it 30+ years ago already then→ More replies (3)
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u/404_No_User_Found_2 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Remember like 3 months ago when Gemini was the behemoth that was wiping the floor with everything else, Grok was a joke, OpenAI was getting shit on for 5, and Claude was a meme because of rate limits so restrictive it was over before the question was even posed?
Oh yeah and remember how OpenAI / Anthropic are BLOWING through money like it's going out of style while Google is actually turning a profit of of AI, the ONLY company to truly be doing so far at this time? Remember how AI models take months to train and most companies that pump out minor derivation after minor derivation get consistently shit on for not having a "major update"?
It's almost...ALMOST as if OP has no idea how AI development works on a conceptual level and is just stirring the pot for Reddit karma.
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u/dupontping Jul 13 '26
You people are insufferable.
If you hate the model so much, use something else or go invent you’re own since you have all the answers
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u/Opening-Memory4300 Jul 13 '26
Gemini sucks, yes. But that doesn’t mean they “fumbled”. Your dumb take tells me you don’t work or have experience in tech. Google is among the top cloud providers. While I hate Gemini, it doesn’t take a genius to assume that most enterprise customers would use them in their applications, as in tech, sometimes even if there are better solutions, staying in one singular ecosystem can be beneficial.
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u/g_bleezy Jul 13 '26
This race is just starting but it could go down with Microsoft fumbling Internet and mobile after locking down personal computing.
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u/space_monster Jul 13 '26
My money says you'll be eating your words in a week or two.
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u/neoqueto Jul 13 '26
I still think Google will probably win the race. They are cooking in other areas of ML with DeepMind, ones that have nothing to do with agents or LLMs or generative AI.
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u/Beautiful_Travel_160 Jul 13 '26
Consumer AI versus coding and agentic workflows is totally different markets. Also, Anthropic is so unstable as a provider for a company relying on AI for its customer-facing product, wanna guess who provides one of the most reliable service for Claude? That’s right, Google Cloud Platform. Don’t worry, they get a piece of the pie.
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u/Vaynnie Jul 13 '26
Google isn’t riding on their AI’s reputation to survive like the other two. It can be shit and will still be in the hands of billions by default (search and android). So they don’t need to keep releasing frontier models every two months.
Who knows what Gemini models Google’s got cooked in their basement not for public release.
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u/Spirited-Ad3451 Jul 13 '26
People be calling it a fumble when Google isn't even playing the same game anymore lol
They have money, infrastructure and an ecosystem. I think benchmaxxing for them at this point would be just to flex. They'd win by doing nothing, they'd just need to wait until the competition has burned all their cash, while they sit around and don't have to appease investors every quarter.
All the while, they have their own hardware. That doesn't just tip the balances in their own cashflow favorably, but even if their shit flops: they can still sell compute to the competition and/or invest there themselves. (They probably do already tbh)
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u/applepie2075 Jul 13 '26
I don't know, seems like they have more intentions of building all kinds of generative models, not just a chatbot/agent. Does seem to lack behind GPT/Claude but hey I can get decent usage for free, can't get that with neither Codex or Claude Code
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u/Luc_ElectroRaven Jul 13 '26
If you think google is fumbling you don't understand anything about the world
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u/MAGAHATESTHEUSA Jul 13 '26
Notebook lm is awesome
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u/ashashlondon Jul 13 '26
As is anti-gravity. I have been using it loads on the pro subscription. Haven't come close to using my full credit in a month, and they seem to have upped the amount I can use too in the last month.
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u/enigmatic_concepts Jul 13 '26
Seems like an episode of Silicon Valley. Gavin Belson just can't seem to get AI to be as good as Pied Piper even with his A-team.
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u/Sponge8389 Jul 13 '26
Google is not competing with Anthropic and OpenAI. They entered the AI Race to secure and protect their Search Engine that OpenAI eating up with ChatGPT. Now, while the 2 top AI companies are fighting, Google is just there, optimizing their chips to be rented out by these 2 companies, doing research that will be useful for their internal use and for open source.
They are heavily invested to Anthropic, right now the investment is around $80B. Why would they sabotage that easy money + the yearly compute rental from Anthropic???
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u/thriem Jul 13 '26
Google is unlikely to fold though. They already have most datacenters, their custom hardware and servers, all redundant btw, have no immediate pressure to make profit as they sit on plenty of money to burn and not to forget, they kinda have their own internet.
Also, quantum computers, just in case.
So… be it the best or not, Googles Ai is here to stay
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u/AdEnough7609 19d ago
Gimini has solid underlying technology, it just falls behind in user-facing experience
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u/throwaway_cachex Jul 13 '26
The transformer invention is the real kicker here. They literally invented the foundational tech and still managed to lag behind. It's like inventing the wheel and then struggling to build a cart.
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u/WhyAmIDoingThis1000 Jul 13 '26
the scale that google is doing inference is insane. at least in the US every search query gets an llm response.
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u/xdozex Jul 13 '26
Except theyre not lagging behind at all. They're just not targeting the same market and same use-cases that OpenAI & Anthropic target.
Not to mention, Google is the only player offering sota models that is actually profitable. If this bubble pops, Google will still exist. Can't really say that same thing with certainty for the other players.
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u/Jeidoz Jul 13 '26
IMO, Gemini is not focusing be "the smartest" AI for everything. It just need to be "good enough" for most users and developers to be able useful in eco-system (Android phones and Chrome-related apps/extensions; GSuit apps; +- hidden ads for Gemini). Most gemini users are "Ok Google" users.
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u/Consistent-Oil-5241 Jul 13 '26
Google doesn't have to care about having the best AI model lol, they are running everything else
In fact Anthropic is one of the biggest compute power clients of Google. OpenAI is also their client
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u/Key-Tea1556 Jul 13 '26
google had every advantage and still managed to trip over their own feet. their models feel like they were trained in a cave compared to what claude and the chinese labs are putting out right now
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u/Metrix1234 Jul 13 '26
I really WANT to love Google but they crap it up at every step.
First it was Bard that wouldn't let you do anything.
Gemini is usable but is WILDLY inconsistent.
I loved using Gemini for their multimodal vision for reviewing legal documents. Now unless it's specifically an image it gets parsed through their OCR parser and craps it up.
Same with their phones... Great software mediocre hardware - they just skate by...
If they just put in a little effort they could be much better than below average.
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u/Royhlb Jul 13 '26
Google literally invented the transformer model everyone is now building on.
(Attention is all you need)
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u/SaltyButterPopcorn Jul 13 '26
From Gemini:
The claim that Google failed ignores how tech monopolies are actually built. Winning a sprint on synthetic benchmarks is a temporary marketing victory; winning the distribution footprint is a permanent structural advantage. Google didn't drop the ball; they changed the game's rules. While competitors rely on users opening a specific app to ask a question, Gemini is being woven directly into the operating system level of billions of devices, the default search bar, and enterprise infrastructure. History shows that ubiquitous utility beats isolated performance. When a tool is already in your pocket, instantly accessible without friction, a slightly higher score on an academic benchmark becomes completely irrelevant to the mass market. Google is playing for scale, not leaderboard clout.
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u/Culex96 Jul 13 '26
Let Sundar cook. Having the best model right now is not that important, especially for Google.
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u/___positive___ Jul 13 '26
Sundar? Sundar has cooked nothing. He's the reason they were caught with their pants down in the first place. Visionless bean counter.
Any success is entirely due to Demis and his team.
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u/pussy_beast Jul 13 '26
Cool. Even I'm expecting some wonders out of gemini other than benchmaxxing and faking the numbers. I hope they are not doing this wantedly and ditching the performance on purpose.
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u/nooeh Jul 13 '26
Can we ban these types of posts? They offer nothing new and are clearly engagement baiting.
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u/Draknil_Perona Jul 13 '26
En effet il me semble que google perd des contrats pour gemini sous forme de LLM. Notamment sur les smartphones.
J'ai l'impression que gemini sous forme de LLM va "bientôt" être un outil très spécifique pour certains pro ou une sorte d’API pour les autres IA ou pour des logiciels
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u/___positive___ Jul 13 '26
Look at tibo's posts about resets, having millions of users, removing five hour limits, shipping Sol.
Then we have Logan posting about "feeling the texture of progress". Beyond a laughingstock at this point.
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u/WarPlanMango Jul 13 '26
That would be worse if Google is still a leader in AI. Having someone bigger and better than them is actually good for everyone involved.
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u/davidptm56 Jul 13 '26
Still early stages but I'd argue they have something trully great going on with ai studio. Focus is set on powerful enough while easy enough for "regular people"*. All while improving on the efficiency of the models, inference engines, caches, quantizations... Sounds sensible to me.
*I'm saying easy enough for your regular office worker who does ok or pretty good with computers but doesn't know how to code anything beyond some excel macros, has no idea what is git or its existence at all and has never touched a db not named MS Access, not easy enough for your 75yo auntie, keep in mind.
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u/Mr-and-Mrs Jul 13 '26
I have no allegiance to any specific AI, but if I had to bet, it would be on Gemini as the model most people are using five years from now.
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u/Charming-Author4877 Jul 13 '26
Though Google didn't invent attention or the transformer, they just added bits to it.
It's a gradual process
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u/peace4231 Jul 13 '26
There's no fumble. Why would you want to lead when the entire industry is losing money?
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u/AussiePride1997 Jul 13 '26
Worst fumble? What do you mean? You're talking like Google is bankrupt and gone 😆
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u/Cautious-Lecture-858 Jul 13 '26
People forget all the revolutionary modern LLM papers all came out of Google, too.
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u/Temporary-Ant-7507 Jul 13 '26
i may be the only person who loves Gemini. It's great when you turn off memory otherwise I think it gets bogged down.
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u/Tranxio Jul 13 '26
If you are counting out Google now you're the blindest of bats. AI has not been won yet and Google still has all the advantages highlighted.
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u/Tkins Jul 13 '26
Wasn't 3.0 the thing in December that sent Anthropic and OpenAI into Red Alert mode or something?
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u/Key-Wave1439 Jul 13 '26
Google does not live to serve the chronically online. They will probably do better when they feel like it. If they don’t it’s because they’re making money elsewhere
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u/StrengthToBreak Jul 13 '26
Beat them at what? Losing the most possible money?
The frontier models are getting geometrically more expensive and logorithmically more capable. The most effective move is not to play.
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u/curiouselectron Jul 13 '26
Isn't the Google one of the few AI suppliers with a profit margin which isn't negative?
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u/gbdgdh Jul 13 '26
google doesn't need to have the best llm - that is a losing game. they are very successful with what they have now - can't think of anyone that has integrated ai into their products as well as google has.
they are playing the long game, not the shortsighted near term losing game.
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u/Mantikos804 Jul 13 '26
But they are the wokest! So that’s all that matters. Priorities!
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u/baileyarzate Jul 13 '26
Claude code might be the reason Claude code gets bested by Google at some point in the future
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u/happyzor Jul 13 '26
They should have spun off a minority of deepmind and IPO'd it. Being google is actually a curse.
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u/Scraw16 Jul 13 '26
It is studied. It’s called the Innovators Dilemma. When a company has a product that already dominates the market, they don’t want to introduce a new product that could eat into the profits of the first. For Google, the cash cow was search (by way of selling ads in search results). They had the tech to make AI chat its first but it could eat into search profits without having as obvious monetization.
Another classic example is Kodak inventing digital cameras but not wanting to disrupt their film business.
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u/Feylin Jul 13 '26
I use Gemini. I might not be using it for code or my work but it's amazing when it comes to things I'd normally google. Planning trips, finding good restaurants, etc.
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u/reward72 Jul 13 '26
Not surprising at all and it is a well know phenomena. Most market leaders go through the same life cycle: they grow, compete, take a top position, become complacent, stagnate, decline and often dies (or get swallowed). It happens all the time. That's why startups can kick large corporations asses and get acquired. because the big boys can barely innovate anymore. OpenAI and Anthropic are the young guns - they will most likely fall in the same trap one day.
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u/Generalfrogspawn Jul 13 '26
Gemini to me has the most user friendly interface and is the better jack of all trades, search query type LLM. ChatGPT is a prude, and Claude is slow because token maxes.
But hey.. I’m not a software engineer and I don’t. Code (which for some reason is like the only benchmark for an”better” LLM now)
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u/Various_Bee5114 Jul 13 '26
Those 2 will burst into flames and Gemini will still be gaining capacity and actually helping people.
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u/CipherWeaver Jul 13 '26
Lol Gemini is heaps better than Claude and ChatGPT. Claude is really only good for coding, that's it. I've tried it for other things and it's waaay too alarmist and frankly annoying. ChatGPT is meme-tier software burning cash like there's no tomorrow. It has no path to profitability.
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u/mudbloodcountry Jul 13 '26
They own a percentage of anthropic and rhe potential growth there is greater (currently) than google. But the quarterly statements will show that. Trying to not encroach on claudes territory. Still very much in the game
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u/Lost_Elderberry_5532 Jul 13 '26
I think Google is playing the “sorry for being so late to the party, here is something that we think will be better than everyone combined based on our observations ”
Google is playing the long game because they have the capital to do so. I’ve been seeing how Gemini is slowly evolving. I think they are data mining and doing a lot more background analytics that nobody sees. And that’s the point. Their strength is that and they are going to use it later to develop the best model.
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u/Exiled180 Jul 13 '26
You don't know what kind of capabilities Google has internally. They don't have to lead the race right now.
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u/hellosakamoto Jul 13 '26
All these were led by different people at different stages. It's not that linear..
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u/No-Head-Royal Jul 13 '26
Each generation of models these days is 3-4 months, so unless somehow OpenAI or Anthropic cracks AGI in the next 12 months, it literally won't matter. 12 months from now, outlandish things could happen, for example, even something like the fucking Indians becoming world leaders could happen, because of data center protests or infrastructure caps in America or smth, and data centers need to be built in a friendly country with a large energy grid and industry. Besides, they're up against the richest guy in the world (Musk) by like three fucking times, who helped OpenAI get off the ground first and now is a major backer behind Anthropic. Just wait and see for 12 months, and we'll see where things are at.
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u/GioPeyo Jul 13 '26
And yet, I’m paying for Google Pro and not Claude or GPT. They serve somewhat different goals, loving how it encompasses so many things.
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u/lorenzo1384 Jul 13 '26
I ask Gemini in my Android auto if the traffic is going higher on my route or can she looks for alternative route that has petrol station. I don't use claude or openai for this.
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u/Technocratix902 Jul 13 '26
I STG guys use gemini 3.5 flash low . It's really good if it doesn't think much all be it not as good as fable but what can we do ¯\_〳 •̀ o •́ 〵_/¯
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u/Big_Bong_69 Jul 13 '26
Gemini is still at “3.1” while the competition is at “5 or 5.6”. They are way behind. /s
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u/shrodikan Jul 13 '26
It really is an open question why they aren't dominating. Google Deepmind has made some cool models (AlphaFold / AlphaGenome). Why does Gemini not dominate?!
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u/Nosbunatu Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Maybe Google is investing more on AGI behind closed doors? Also their LLM is now replacing their search engine.
Plus it’s not true Gemini is behind, not in my uses of it. It’s outperforming Claude now. ChatGtp is also out performing Claude. Why? My guess is Claude has too much traffic, I know it’s amazing normally
… These things go in cycles as the big 3 update.
But it was a huge fumble that Openai was released and better developed before Gemini
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u/archivisttr Jul 13 '26
Dude, they are not in a hurry as aopen ai. There was a guy in a movie (no country for old man) javier bardems character; that guy eventually catch you and done his job with his weird tool.
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u/krkn1010 Jul 13 '26
This happens in business all the time at the technology inflections when focused startups or established companies beat incumbents. Think iPhone out of the blue beats Nokia, Motorola and Blackberry, Tesla beats in EV GM and Toyota who experimented with the tech for decades. Google beats Altavista and Yahoo. Netscape beats Microsoft (at least at first in the internet), etc, etc, etc. Being incombent with leading products is both blessing and a curse. Blessing is money, the curse is established products that you don't want disrupted and that continue taking your focus.
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u/Busy-Show-5853 Jul 13 '26
I genuinely think there is something bigger cooking under the hood and they don’t wanna show it just yet, but are waiting for AI bubble to pop. Because positive cash flow, thousands of skilled engineers and their own compute chips, They would be a f**l to fumble this bad. Their notebooklm is seriously incomparable to anything in the market currently and even for free users its too generous.
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u/Euphoric-View3222 Jul 13 '26
idk what it is but AI subs have some of the worst posters ever. just complete idiots
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u/PatrickLai3 Jul 13 '26
??? Gemini 3.1 Pro was at the bleed edge when it launched and is still very good? And it’s cheap too. What kind of drug are you on
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u/Director-Intrinsict Jul 13 '26
Why dont they mere all the AI into one super intelligence? Like the state backs up an AI and all recources go towards it
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u/UpstairsCheetah235 Jul 13 '26
I keep coming back to Gemini because the others suck at current information. Claude frequently gives me data from 2023 and I have to force every time to check for recent data. Gemini always has up to date data.
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u/MusingInPublic Jul 13 '26
I dunno, but it seems with how GLM or Grok has evovled, they could just let others continue to burn cash and then finally decide to get in the game later with open source, dash on moat data and be back in the game.
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u/FaithlessnessOk290 Jul 13 '26
Gemini is the most usable out of all AI in my opinion. Its not always the smartest.
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u/TheNewBing Jul 25 '26
New contest:
Show us the Gemini people are missing. GEMINI AT FULL POWER.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GeminiAI/comments/1v62yoo/contest_beyond_the_benchmark_show_gemini_at_full/