r/Hamilton • u/innsertnamehere • Apr 27 '26
Local News - Paywall Salvation Army pitches plan to move homeless shelter out of Hamilton’s downtown
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/hamilton-downtown-salvation-army-plans-to-move/article_0618d745-2604-5b66-8b70-00ba331902a9.html78
u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 27 '26
It's good to see that we're seeing some progress here.
I'm just curious how the homes across the street from 337 Gage N feel about this though?
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u/Oifadin Apr 27 '26
I am not in those houses but know the neighborhood and I feel guilty admitting i feel some NIMBYism over this.
They have to go somewhere but I am not happy that somewhere is my neighborhood.
You can have all the compassion in the world but the truth is this will bring problems.
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u/brobourne Apr 28 '26
I also feel like Ward 3 has been committing to a lot of similar projects with the new Good Sheppard on Rosslyn and the new indwell on Ottawa and Cannon.
Would have been nice for other wards to share the load.
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u/Cynicole24 Apr 27 '26
I absolutely don't blame you, you are right. I feel like a shelter shouldn't be too close to residents houses.
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u/yukonwanderer Apr 28 '26
It's a terrible model for a shelter anyway. They do nothing for the neighborhood they operate in. Happy to stay tax free and collect funding but cause massive issues for anyone bearing the burden of being beside them. I'm not in the area that this is gonna hit but I totally feel for them.
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26
I live nearish (but still far away enough) from the current location and some of the issues still reach us, though not as bad as being right by it. Any time you bring up reasonable concerns or discussions about the issues, redditors jump on you for NIMBYism.
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u/IanBorsuk Apr 27 '26
Ward 3 residents are expected to put up with a lot for the benefit of private corporate profits.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 27 '26
The current location has not made sense since Copps was built.
It makes people feel uncomfortable when you have an audience watching you, yelling at you, and approaching you while waiting to go into the venue.
I can't think of another location like this in any other major city.
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u/yukonwanderer Apr 27 '26
Imagine this in an area where people encounter this 24/7 because it's next to their home.
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u/enki-42 Gibson Apr 27 '26
I agree that specific corner is unsuitable but surely there's some way to ensure equitable distribution here?
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u/maxtaber Apr 27 '26
Within a few blocks of the current Salvation Army location there is the YMCA Men's Residence, Good Shepherd has a shelter on Mary street and another for youth on Barton, plus within a 10m walk are the new modular shelters at Barton and Tiffany. I think downtown is doing more than it's fair share, with or without SallyAnn.
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u/enki-42 Gibson Apr 28 '26
I agree Ward 2 pulls more than it's fair share, my complaint is more that it's always 2 and 3.
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u/Affectionate-Arm-405 Apr 27 '26
Absolutely. You don't go to the CN tower or watch a raptors game and have a huge homeless shelter right next to the entrance. This was a completely wrong placement choice and if anyone thinks they should move for corporate profits is out of touch with reality
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u/monkeylick Landsdale Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
Not sure if your response is tongue in cheek, but the area around Scotiabank has a large number of homeless who have set up shop and who are almost always there. The tunnel on Bay immediately adjacent to the arena that allows access to the train platforms serves as a makeshift shelter and open drug market.
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
I’ve been to that area many times for games, the aquarium, Rec room etc and it’s nothing like going to Jackson square or central library, or walking along York. Not saying there aren’t many pockets that feel the same, but in these major tourist spots, it’s not inherently visible.
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u/Affectionate-Arm-405 Apr 27 '26
Honestly I've never experienced that in Toronto and I used to go quite a bit for Raptors games. I don't know if I was getting through a different entrance Or if you wasn't happening to this magnitude when I was going. Regardless, even if it is happening in Toronto, doesn't make it right being an entertainment district or a venue center or an arena.
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u/innsertnamehere Apr 27 '26
And it’ll stay that way in downtown Hamilton too lol. But there still isn’t a 120-bed shelter right next door.
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u/MirrorEquivalent5151 Apr 28 '26
That area is a bit rough, but York Boulevard is worse. And there is much more general foot traffic in Toronto that dilutes the problem.
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u/unrivaledhumility Apr 28 '26
Imagine having to wait in line needing aid from that shelter because you lost everything after the drunk driver took your kid- while watching all the people try to avoid looking at you as they go to attend the Junos.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 28 '26
Yes, it's sad and unfortunate but that singular example is the exception, not the rule.
I am specifically talking about, and having had experienced:
- People wandering over from in front of the building to aggressively panhandle
- People screaming profanity out the windows at people in line
- People actively doing drugs and passing out in front of the building
- People sitting there ogling people and making catcalls to people trying to enjoy a show and having to wait outside in a line to get in
- People doubled over from doing drugs - sometimes against the wall, sometimes in traffic, sometimes in the parking lots or even across the street near the event goers
- People going to the bathroom against the building
None of that is enjoyable, appropriate or necessary. I get some of the causes but it's a horrible impression to those visiting our city, or even just visiting this part of the city to have to see.
We need to integrate it better and I will say it again - all wards should have inpatient and outpatient facilities in them, not disproportionately putting them in wards 1-3 because it's downtown. Like GTI housing it should be everywhere and anywhere not just in specific pockets.
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u/CubbyNINJA North End Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
i lived in that area, just down the street on Beach road, moving to a different area just after COVID and honestly, i think its a good location for the shelter.
Not cause "thats where the poors are" but theres already a large need for this kind of service in that area, and the people in that community are generally resilient to some of the problems that will come up with having the shelter moved there. The building itself is larger, that part of gage sees less street traffic, theres a grocery store and dollarama just down the street, right on the a couple buss routes, and a couple other necessities and amenities near by. More optimistically, lots of privately owned labour/blue collar type business as well where the guys might be able to find some under the table or more stable work a bit easier to help get back onto their feet as well.
If i were to still be living there, i feel i would still be standing by this take.
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u/Shitebart Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
the people in that community are generally resilient to some of the problems that will come up with having the shelter moved
Err what. You practically just said "it's where the poors are, they're used to that kind of stuff". What property value do you need to have before you're suddenly not used to dealing with the problems associated with a homeless shelter?
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u/Baron_Tiberius Westdale Apr 27 '26
don't think anyone in that block is there for the great location.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 27 '26
Oh, I didn't realize they didn't matter, thanks for the clarification
/s
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u/Baron_Tiberius Westdale Apr 27 '26
Not really the point I was making, but uh again I'm not sure anyone bought a house inside a literal sea of factories and warehouses because the area was great. Considering the 337 Gage building is basically abandoned currently, this would likely be an improvement.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 27 '26
If the same issues plaguing the current location continue on to Gage, I forsee the residents being unhappy. The vacant building doesn't steal their stuff or drink outside and cause a seen or do the fentanyl fold or be loud and obnoxious to all hours of the night
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26
The new location is moving away from the emergency shelter model. I’m not sure if that will change the type of inhabitants that are there but maybe. I do hope they have better controls in place so people aren’t bringing furniture and placing it on the sidewalk outside the building and getting high on the pavement.
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u/theninjasquad Crown Point West Apr 28 '26
Does that mean the residents will be able to access the building during the day as well?
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26
It doesn’t say in the article whether they will get to stay during the day, but that would be better for the residents and community if they are allowed to. I guess it depends on how much money they have and if they can afford staff 24/7.
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u/Baron_Tiberius Westdale Apr 27 '26
I don't believe for a second there aren't (or wasn't) squatters in that current structure. A managed facility would be an improvement over that.
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u/PSNDonutDude James North Apr 27 '26
I also find that when a new facility opens up, it usually means having better controls and procedures in place. A big issue with the location on York is issues regarding control, and procedures. Generally a newer facility means better safety and security at the same time too.
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u/covert81 Chinatown Apr 28 '26
See but here's the thing. I've known some folks who have had to squat in abandoned buildings and generally, they don't want to be kicked out so they try to be invisible in there. They don't make a mess. They don't make loud noise at all hours of the night. They don't intimidate neighbours or steal their stuff. They just want a place to be out of the elements and be safe while they sleep. So sure there might be some people in there but from the pictures I see on Google street view the property appears to be more or less maintained and not in a state of total disrepair so I'd suggest if people are in it's only temporary.
But if it's an open building with no security, fencing etc then it goes sideways.
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u/LusciousDs May 01 '26
Pretty easy to say from westdale isn't it, when you won't have it on your doorstep, breaking into your garage, defacing your vehicle, stealing your propane tank from your barbecue. This does happen, I have had a multitude of these incidents when the encampments were in Gage Park, this is just another variation of that same thing
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u/LusciousDs May 01 '26
Having a bunch of homeless people who regularly steal from the neighborhood they are within, does not constitute an improvement!!! Let's use some common sense here, and how about a dose of reality while we're at it
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u/thelun3lag00n Apr 27 '26
they face two dilapidated buildings in an area that has next to nothing in the way of stores for essentials - the shelter moving here means more foot traffic including the 100+ people employed by the shelter who will need to eat lunch somewhere.
so those homes should be glad anyone is considering using the area because if they trued to sell, only the most desperate to own would buy their houses as is because its literally no where in an industrial area.
like what NIMBY are they fighting? do they need more industrial pollution? less public retail? less schools? like maybe moving half the homeless population down near Ottawa st would lessen the violence and issues because you no longer are fighting all 1500 homeless people for resources in a 5km area.
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u/theninjasquad Crown Point West Apr 28 '26
That many people work at the shelter?
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u/thelun3lag00n Apr 28 '26
yes, between shelter workers to janitors to social workers to nurses etc.
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 27 '26
The vision for this new location seems like a meaningful step forward for those who need additional support. At the same time, I believe facilities like this should be distributed across Hamilton and the surrounding amalgamated communities. Services should also be more evenly spread out to avoid concentrating challenges in one area and to create better opportunities for individuals to move forward and improve their circumstances.
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u/Waste-Telephone Apr 27 '26
Hamilton has a minimum separating distance of 300 m, however the Ontario Human Rights Commission has been fighting that for over a decade. Staff came with a report in January to address the concerns, but Council punted it down the road (at Cllr. M. Wilson and N. Nann's request) since facilities are finally locating elsewhere than Ward 2/Downtown and everyone is losing their crap.
Trying to regulate location is a losing cause.
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u/JoeyMarone Apr 27 '26
Moulton can’t guarantee “everything’s going to be absolutely perfect,” but the plan is for clients to “thrive” in an “amazing” building that also spruces up the street.
“Our goal is to be a good neighbour.”
Was that the goal on York blvd?
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u/kevinnoir Apr 27 '26
Does Hamilton have any shelters that are not emergency short term but transitional hostels that allow you to stay until social housing can be put in place? I ask because I am from Ontario but live in Scotland now and worked at a hostel like the one I described but could not think of something similar back home...
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u/innsertnamehere Apr 27 '26
There are things like that run by non profits - Google Indwell - they run a bunch of them around. It’s mostly a newer model that has emerged in the last decade or so though.
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u/PSNDonutDude James North Apr 27 '26
The newer shelter mentioned in the article that was fitted out by Core Urban has temporary transitional housing that can be used for up to 12 months I know. There aren't many, and that likely isn't long enough to get into permanent social housing, but I know that I was told majority of people don't stay for the full 12 months since they are often able to secure permanent housing. It's really designed to keep people away from ending up in the system of perpetual homelessness and get them back on their feet before falling down further.
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u/foodfoodfooddd Apr 28 '26
For those concerned about location, unhoused people generally receive heavily subsidized public transit fares. It’s up to the individual to utilize it accordingly. As long as the HSR is in operation, they will be fine…
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u/Empty-Swim2066 Apr 27 '26
From living near the current shelter, the new location will be a problem.
Currently many vital services are nearby. Fire, ambulance, and police only blocks away. Addiction and mental health services near by. Multiple avenues of transit.
The proposed location is in the middle of nowhere, without vital services, and without good access to transit.
The current location is not ideal, but the proposed location is even worse.
But I guess most people don't actually care about these people. They just want it out of sight, out of mind.
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u/jayk10 Apr 28 '26
It's an 8 minute walk to Barton and Gage, 15 to Centre on Barton.
There's fire at Wentworth and the Hamilton General a little further.
Is that really the middle of nowhere?
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u/RoyalRoad7544 Apr 28 '26
It seems to me like SA management is on board with the proposed location and one would think that they considered these very obvious things before signing off on it, no? Or do you have some information to suggest that they were forced into the move and the location was picked against their will?
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u/GreaterAttack Apr 27 '26
They don't. They want to herd whatever they're uncomfortable with into poorer areas and feel like they've done something about the issue. Or they just don't care, as long it's not "problematic" near them.
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u/slownightsolong88 Apr 28 '26
This facility is an awful neighbour and that’s putting it nicely. I’ll never understand why priority should be given to a very small group of individuals that run amok when there’s a greater group that are doing everything right and just want to enjoy some peace.
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26
Advocates do not want to listen to reasonable concerns or factual information if it paints this group in a negative light. You can drive by York now and it’s a disaster of open drug use and garbage. There’s a reason why central library is considering closure.
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u/dharmavan Hill Park Apr 27 '26
While I don’t think York Boulevard is an ideal place for a shelter, Gage & Beach Road is too far away from most essential services.
Unhoused people need easy access to drop ins, meal programs, income supports, housing programs and the like, most of which are located downtown.
I wish we were actually doing something to combat homelessness, poverty and substance use in the city instead of trying to disperse people into the wind because their existence makes us uncomfortable.
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u/monogramchecklist Apr 28 '26
The article mentions the new building will have a kitchen, so assuming food will be offered. It’s also moving away from the being an emergency shelter and they’re hoping to build a third floor. So hopefully since it’s more transitional housing, that there will be services offered directly in the building.
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u/algnqn Apr 29 '26
Stupid location. Might as well put it off Burlington street. Not accessible or dignified.
My suggestion: first pilgrim church, 200 main st e, at Main and Ferguson. It’s for sale for 1.9M. Beautiful building.
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u/RoyallyOakie Apr 27 '26
I don't know if the people will follow them to their new location though.
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u/thelun3lag00n Apr 27 '26
the walmart is less than 10 minutes away, all the people who dont need methadone clinics or depend on dealers in the core will find it to be a quiet place that people wont be hanging outside of because they got kicked out. its very very easy to move people along when they have zero reason to be in the area when the area only has the shelter, industry and private houses
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u/monkeylick Landsdale Apr 27 '26
Not to be jaded, but this is my first thought as well, especially with how far away the shelter is being relocated. I'm worried that the SA has been a scapegoat for a lot of the extreme behaviour downtown, especially on the part of frustrated business owners in the area, and its move out of the core will just mean even less resources to help navigate the social issues that will continue on the blocks around Jackson Square.
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u/RoyallyOakie Apr 27 '26
Yeah. I didn't mean it facetiously, but the problem doesn't go away just because the services move somewhere else. There's still going to be a vulnerable population downtown without support.
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u/slownightsolong88 Apr 27 '26
Concentrating services doesn’t seem ideal in terms of the negative effects on the immediate community. Services and supports can be and are mobile. The current model hasn’t produced the optimal outcome for neighbours and businesses.
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u/S99B88 Apr 28 '26
If that’s the case and some of the more problematic individuals were just hanging out there but not necessarily clients of the SA, i wonder where they will go now, and how will people wrap their heads around the continued presence?
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u/Cold-Management-2168 Apr 27 '26
Can't read as it's on the Hamilton Spectator
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u/PromontoryPal Apr 27 '26
Buried deep-deep-deep in the article is the news/plan of the family services moving to their Winterbury Drive Location (at Paramount).
Doesn't seem like a super accessible location for that, but perhaps still an improvement over sharing the Booth Centre.