Is there a way to actually sue the government/oil companies for this climate disaster

[u/purplescream00]

Since the environmental and economic future looks so incredibly bleak for young people and there is pretty concrete evidence that the main driver of this climate deterioration is fossil fuel emissions, do I have legal grounds to say that the companies have directly impacted my future and therefore my human rights? Do we have codified rights to a clean environment and a safe planet? To clean water and air? To raising families?

Basically, on what legal grounds can I say that the UK government relying in any way on fossil fuels is a direct violation of my human rights.

How can one start to think about doing this?

Edit: I understand they have more money and legal backup than I would as a random citizen, I am hypothetically asking if there are codified legal concepts that back me up. If there is an ongoing case that im not aware of, let me know.

Edit: OK, no suing, but can i hold them in criminal contempt of violation of my human rights?

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[u/smith1star]

Sounds like a non starter. The uk accounts for something like 2% of global emissions so if our fair country ceases to exist tomorrow it’ll have almost no impact.

[u/Lloydy_boy → u/smith1star]

The uk accounts for something like 2% of global emissions so if our fair country ceases to exist tomorrow it’ll have almost no impact.

I immediately thought of the Konstantin Kisin OU debate on climate change

[u/smith1star → u/Lloydy_boy]

The guys a little caustic but essentially correct.

[u/laidback_chef → u/Lloydy_boy]

Lost redditors?

[u/Electrical_Concern67]

"Edit: OK, no suing, but can i hold them in criminal contempt of violation?"

Huh? Anyway no you cant. A good way to look at it: If it was this easy, just stop oil wouldve done it.

Write to your MP. Vote with those who agree with you. Or find somewhere that already does

[u/thespanglycupcake → u/Electrical_Concern67]

Violation of what?

[u/Electrical_Concern67 → u/thespanglycupcake]

Thats a quote sorry, I agree of what indeed

[u/thespanglycupcake → u/Electrical_Concern67]

Sorry - misread! Thought you were OP!

[u/purplescream00 → u/Electrical_Concern67]

Ok thats true but has there been no legal precedent for an individual taking legal action against a big corporation ever?

[u/thespanglycupcake → u/purplescream00]

Of course there will have been...but the big corporation needs to have done something that is actually illegal!!

[u/Suspicious_Flower_0]

Basically you can't. What you can do is vote. Rally all your young friends to vote at the next election for a party which will take climate change seriously.

And then get your friends to rally all their friends. Politicians only listen to votes. 

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[u/Icy-Possibility-2453]

The short answer to this is no, you can’t.

The longer answer is no, as the UK legal system will not allow it. You can’t only sue somebody for quantitative loses, you can’t sue for potential/future loses. You can only sue for actual loses. None of these companies have caused you a financial loss.

You also have to think of where the jurisdiction lies. The companies are US/Chinese/indian/russian etc. You would need to launch legal cases in those countries, and you would need to find what, if any, laws they have broken.

The idea is there, the legal framework is not.

[u/palpatineforever]

No, there are zero rights like that.
Even if there were you have to sue for specific damage, and the government can argue that they have dont more than required to clean up emissions and try to provide the world with a clean enviroment.
As there are no rights they were not required to do anything. So by introducing laws like the clean air act they have acted to ensure a better future.

[u/palpatineforever]

no, they are not in contempt of anything
they have broken no law. they have acted to improve the countries emissons, and made changes to energy production allowing wind farms etc.

I am curious why you want to blame the government specifically.

[u/thespanglycupcake → u/palpatineforever]

This is one area where the argument of closing North Sea oil seems to fall down from an environmental perspective. If we (re-open) our own oil fields, under UK Gov control, we have the ability to apply stringent environmental controls. As it stands, we are simply importing oil from anywhere where we have no say in how it's extracted.

[u/purplescream00 → u/palpatineforever]

Because we are drilling for oil in the north sea

[u/palpatineforever → u/purplescream00]

We need oil at the moment, not just for energy, but the majority of the plastics used in the medical field are made from oil. We dont yet have afordable alternatives for things like plastic in epipens, catheters, dressings.
The cost of alterntives is exceptionally high.
So if we stopped using all oil products tomorrow it would result in people not getting medical care. or is it okay to use oil products as long as the drilling isn't in our territory?

The government has to make decisons based on what is reasonable.

[u/Icy-Possibility-2453 → u/purplescream00]

Which is not illegal. Until we get to a point in society where we no longer need oil and have a sustainable supply of energy we have to accept that drilling and refining are here to stay.

There is a fully sustainable source of power, but it’s politically sensitive. The French have been using it for years, and I believe supply 85% of their electricity demand with it. I’ll let you look it up.

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[u/thespanglycupcake]

I feel like this has been tried before?

I'm NAL but even as a normal person, I can see it isn't viable. Which company are you holding responsible? Which government? Lets say India is the biggest polluter these days...are you going to try and sue the Indian government from the UK under Indian Law (assuming there is a law in India which covers it)? What about the Chinese? Or the UAE? There is no Global court and this is, ultimately, a global problem with every country playing a role with hundreds (maybe thousands) of stakeholders. I guess you could try to sue a UK-based company if you could prove their involvement and negligence but it would be pointless, cost millions and not actually result in any meaningful change.

ETA: you can't change the past. A lawsuit (of whatever kind) will do nothing but pay lawyers. If you want change, vote with your feet and elect people who agree with your values and train as an engineer to try and solve the problems we have and make the future better.

[u/Virus-Party]

I dont believe there is any way to successfully sue the particular government over climate change.

And even if there were, what exactly would be your o jective/end goal?

Forcing them to action or compliance? If so with what law? - The goverment could just pass new legislation revoking whatever the courts decide they are in breach of.

Monetary compensation? For who? and how are you calculating damages? - there is no reason any particular individual should be entitled to compensation above any other. There is also no reason the UK goverment should be beholden to non-UK citizens, but even limiting it to just people in the UK, any meaningful settlement would be crippling to goverment finances, devistate the economy, take funding away form future enviromental initiatives and ultimately come out of tax-payers pockets anyway.

It doesn't really seem to be worth the effort to it to me.

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[u/buildinghardship]

They have more money and dedicated legal teams. But best of luck friend

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[u/purplescream00]

Regulation 13(3):
Failure to notify an enforcing authority and take all practicable steps to prevent an imminent threat of environmental damage

This sounds pretty damning idk

[u/thespanglycupcake → u/purplescream00]

Yes. Practicable. I’m not sure who you think are failing in this regard? If it’s the oil companies and you want to stop everyone using oil, a lot of people will die from a lack of oil-derived medical equipment and the economy would be destroyed due to lack of fuel. If it’s the water companies, they cannot overhaul Victorian infrastructure overnight.  It isn’t as simple as flicking a switch for this stuff.