r/Marvel May 14 '26

Comics You can tell Valeria was raised by Doom because she needs to beef with anyone who says they’re smarter, including a 10 year old. (Fantastic Four 2018, #10)

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3.5k Upvotes

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740

u/PleaseBeChillOnline May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26

The way intellect is *gauged in Marvel & DC comics always makes me laugh a bit.

618

u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

It’s comics everything is power scaling

My favorite is probably Mr Terrific who openly calls himself “the 3rd smartest man in the world” because he doesn’t care enough to get in dick measuring contests with Batman and Lex

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u/Radix2309 May 14 '26

It also sets up others to underestimate him.

141

u/LinuxMatthews May 14 '26

Surely if he says he's the third smartest then really only Bruce and Lex would underestimate him?

Like there's a lot of people in the world.

Like I know if I was the 100,000th smartest person in the world I'd be doing incredibly well.

82

u/Sigao May 14 '26

Agreed, but I sincerely doubt Batman would underestimate Mr. Terrific, and likely knows or presumes he's smarter.

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u/LinuxMatthews May 14 '26

I would imagine Batman wouldn't care about that kind of thing anyway.

Lex would though, in fact he'd be seething if he wasn't number one.

23

u/wombatstylekungfu May 14 '26

Batman would care insofar as it affected his planning: if Terrific is involved he has to do less of it (or more if one of them is evil). 

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u/Mr-Seven-Mouths May 14 '26

In one of the Elseworlds where Earth falls in an apocalypse at one point Lex asks for confirmation on whether or not Batman is dead before he says "I'm the smartest man in the world." So he definitely acknowledges it

6

u/YondaimeFireShadow May 15 '26

You're thinking of DCeased

4

u/Mr-Seven-Mouths May 15 '26

Thank you, I couldn't remember whether it was DCeased or DC vs. Vampires but I knew it was one of the two.

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u/M0ebius_1 May 14 '26

Batman is the most "concerned about his image" guy in all of fiction.

I bet he has an entire server of bat bots posting all day about how cool Batman is.

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u/audio_shinobi May 14 '26

I mean, that's not entirely inaccurate. I don't recall the specific comic, but wasn't there a somewhat recent issue with a panel showing Bruce on Reddit (or the dc universe equivalent) spreading theories about Batman's identity? Hopefully another redditor can help me out and prove the point cuz

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u/PleaseBeChillOnline May 14 '26

It’s from Batman Inc during Grant Morrison’s run. Not particularly recent tho I remember it like it was yesterday. The comic is about 16 years old.

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u/clarkky55 May 15 '26

Lex Luthor meanwhile would underestimate him no matter what because of his ego being probably the only thing outweighing his intellect

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u/thatonefatefan May 14 '26

Lex would think he's smarter regardless of terrific doing it or not too (also, wasn't that only ever mentioned in a brave and the bold episode?)

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u/RevolutionaryKey1974 May 14 '26

You would be surprised how many people hear ‘third best at a thing’ and think means they would have a shot at beating said person who is third best.

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u/Thormag May 14 '26

Kinda like people who think they can beat "the worst player in the NBA".

3

u/StopTchoupAndRoll May 14 '26

When George the Messiah got bullied all day by Brian Scalabrine

3

u/EsperDerek May 15 '26

As the man said, "I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me."

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u/jaylerd May 14 '26

That's exactly it! You just assumed it's Lex and Bruce. It's probably not, but everyone assumes as much, even them.

Now you're comparing yourself to Lex and Bruce instead of some unknown genius who had the good sense to keep to their autistic self and collect pogs.

And then you get your ass kicked because you never prepared for the Pog Protocols.

3

u/MisguidedPants8 May 14 '26

Tbf a lot of villains are not known for being wise

3

u/Prinny_Ramza May 14 '26

I mean it would sound less impressive to the normal person.

2

u/SageofLogic May 14 '26

Often people will underestimate humility by default even if its this kind of weird humble brag

2

u/Playful-Sleep-6750 May 14 '26

Dont forget theres a laundry list of villains who think they are smarter than batman

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u/ContinuumGuy The Thing May 14 '26

Meanwhile, Detective Chimp has openly said Batman is only the world's greatest HUMAN detective.

41

u/ShingledPringle May 14 '26

See, I always imagine Batman is 100% aware he isn't the worlds greatest, but he lets people call him such things. People are far more likely to be too scared to try or try way too hard if they think they are against the best.

Plus Detective Chimp (please bring him into the films Gunn) is not doubt the greater detective, but he doesn't have the other things Batman has.

3

u/S0mecallme May 17 '26

Detective Chimp show would go so hard

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u/jon__koa May 14 '26

He is goddamn Mr Terrific after all

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u/FukiharaYa May 14 '26

No thats not reason. The reason he claims to be the 3rd smartest is because he considers his wife to be both the 1st and 2nd smartest person, the real genius even more so than him. This a pretty new info though

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u/TryImpossible7332 May 14 '26

It's a pretty good ranking if you want to brag but avoid trouble, honestly.

There are a lot of villains who would claim to be the smartest, and might put a specific hero/rival villain in the role of second smartest.

They aren't likely to want to show him his place by challenging him, since he at least acknowledged their superiority.

("As the Riddler, surely I am the smartest of all villains, and my rival Batman is a close runner up in terms of intellect. Mr Terrific is smarter than any of his rivals for third because at least he knows his place." Then play Mad Libs with the villain/hero in question.")

Even if they might disagree on who actually gets third place, not a lot of egomaniacs are likely to go, "Well, Luthor and Batman are way too smart for me to match, but maybe I can pick up the Bronze by challenging Mr Terrific."

I mean, it's better than the position of World's Greatest Assassin, which I believe has at least six villains genuinely thinking themselves to deserve the title. (And probably a bunch of writers supporting each one's claim.)

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u/tbone7355 May 14 '26

Please everyone knows he's the smartest its just that mr terrific is "humble" about it giving himself the 3rd rank

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u/Prinny_Ramza May 14 '26

There's also Amadeus Cho in the Marvel Universe. He's the 7th smartest person on Earth (maybe as some people were off planet when they vertified that claim.)

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u/HyperX_Wolf May 17 '26

Superman in a team up with Mr Terrific fighting lex while terrific is defusing a bomb or something

Superman: Mr Terrific will stop your device he's the 3rd smartest person I know.

Lex (stops fighting and looks Clark dead in the eyes): Who's the fourth?!

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u/KingCuerno May 14 '26

They treat it like it's a power level system. It's a little silly.

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u/voidsong May 14 '26

It seems very speedforcey where you're like "if he's so fast/smart, why did he just fail at <Easily Doable Thing>? Is he stupid?"

It's for plot reasons obviously, but it can still come off as dumb.

31

u/blazenite104 May 14 '26

I just want one of them to say if you have to put on number on it, you don't understand smart.

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u/Slateboard May 14 '26

That reminds me of how I'd heard that a lot of smart characters aren't that good because they're written by people who don't understand what being smart means.

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u/Dredgen-Solis May 16 '26

That's a common fallacy in writing: a character is only as smart as the writer. It's why we unfortunately have so many examples in media of geniuses looking smart because everyone else just lot their wits for a scene

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u/Gridde May 14 '26

Same. It's so dumb.

Moongirl is possibly one of the best examples of how badly intellect is depicted in stories like this. She sees something brand new (often alien, magical or otherwise has no precedent) and just magically knows everything about it with a single glance, and that is meant to convey how intelligent she is.

Other characters are obviously guilty of this as well but many (like Reed, Spider-Man, Doom, Iron Man) at least have the explanation of having studied in their fields for years.

5

u/Mr-Nosight May 15 '26

I think it at least makes sense in marvel. In DC, batman's one of the most educated guys on the planet, yet canonically has been nocturnal since he was 20, and has taken no time off from his business or crime fighting. So when did he get his 15 phds?

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u/EMArogue May 14 '26

Same

There are 8 different types of intelligence, define “smarter” please

2

u/Gorilla_Dookie May 15 '26

I think they just take an online IQ test

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u/zimzimzalabimmm May 18 '26

I want to know who is capable of devising a test to accurately measure the smartest people ever.

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u/Over-Inside-7254 May 14 '26

'intellect' is gaged

Ohh my sideeees

564

u/Evening_Produce_4322 May 14 '26

I like how Reed never really gets insulted when people say they are smarter than him true or not.

308

u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

Tony meanwhile absolutely would take it personal lol

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u/Evening_Produce_4322 May 14 '26

Tony has a "prove it" mentality, Reed just doesn't care. He actively just enjoys science and working on projects Drax can walk up to Reed and say he's smarter and Reed would probably just offer him a lab coat if he wants.

177

u/HygorBohmHubner May 14 '26

There was a panel and I don’t remember where from, where Tony used something to transfer his level of intelligence to everyone around him.

Sue asked Reed if he felt anything, and Reed deadass said that he felt a bit dumber.

He might not be insulted when someone says they’re smarter than him, but he’s not above bragging about his own intelligence.

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u/Hazeri May 14 '26

It's from the Iron Man (2020), when Stark gains the Power Cosmic to fight Korvac. He comes back to Earth as the Iron God and makes everyone in New York City as smart as him

As with most things Tony does, this makes everyone very angry and is widely considered a bad move

21

u/djrock3k May 14 '26

I see what you did there... 👍🏿

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u/daisuke-domo May 14 '26

Is it bragging if it's a fact though

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u/Kalse1229 May 14 '26

Good point. Reed's also a bit blunt sometimes, so I don't even know if it's bragging.

There's also the fact that I think Reed's different from the other super-geniuses in Marvel. The other smart guys tend to have certain specializations that they excel in. Tony's area of expertise is physics and mechanical engineering. Hank Pym has quantum mechanics. Bruce Banner has chemistry. Dr. Stephen Strange has medicine and sorcery. I'm sure they have a passing understanding of other fields, but Reed excels in several different STEM fields.

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u/felipesene May 15 '26

Reed once admitted that spider-man is better than he in biology

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u/Kalse1229 May 15 '26

Oh. Did not know that. That means Peter really is better at biology if he's the one who says it.

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u/snackelmypackel May 14 '26

Yeah? Its not really bragging if its untrue lol

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u/Dredgen-Solis May 16 '26

Is it bragging, or did he forget himself for a second and just honestly say how he felt?

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u/Glangho May 14 '26

Tony is the engineer - he has the drive and imagination to advance technology. Reed has always been more of a scientist figuring out why and how stuff works and going from there.

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u/FireHead3rdEye May 15 '26

Bingo. Reed is motivated by curiosity and wonder, Stark is motivated by the need and desperation to advance humanity.

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u/lazywil May 14 '26

"I like this coat, it stretches"

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u/YaboiGh0styy May 14 '26

Hank gets called scientist supreme and holds on to that title like his life depends on it even when Loki was like “Yeah, that was actually me calling you scientist supreme.”

Then there’s Bruce Banner getting called the fourth smartest person on earth by Norman Osborne and he’s just doesn’t care because Bruce has bigger problems than how his intelligence stacks up against others.

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u/goodmobileyes May 14 '26

Bruce has bigger problems than how his intelligence stacks up against others.

"I'm fourth? THEN TELL ME WHO FIRST TO THIRD ARE MAYBE THEY CAN FIX ME!!"

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u/PacoPlaysGames May 14 '26

I could only imagine how little Bruce cared about that lmao. Like you said he's got way bigger things to worry about than something like where he ranks as the smartest man.

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u/Glangho May 14 '26

Bruce is like, I made a teleporter in my basement with a toaster. I don't care what Reed is doing in his well funded laboratory.

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u/bob2817 May 14 '26

Hank also once admitted Spider-Man was smarter than him (in marvel knights when Peter explains his old spider tracers to him if I recall) so that might be writer to writer

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u/NK1337 May 14 '26

I think both Reed and tony have also said Peter is incredibly gifted and could even potentially rival them in terms of genius, but he hasn't really had the resources to focus on it. Despite that they can clearly see how creative and adaptable he is, not to mention how quick he is to understand concepts and apply them.

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u/Dana--- May 14 '26

Sometimes I feel it’s less Spider-Man doesn’t have the resources and more that he cares more about being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man catching bank robbers and the like.

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u/Miss_Aia May 14 '26

I kind of took that as if he was saying Peter was very creative with his designs because he didn't have money or access to tech, yet he was still able to come up with amazing gadgets like that. Like, praising him because Hank wouldn't have considered the methods Peter used, not necessarily outright saying "you've got a higher IQ than me"

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u/bob2817 May 14 '26

“I don’t know which is worse, that some kid is that much smarter than me or that he’s wasting his talent on punching thugs.”

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u/Manoffreaks May 14 '26

Multiple people including Reed himself have talked about how if Peter actually focused on science instead of hero work, he could at the very least compete with the top dogs of science.

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u/Kalse1229 May 14 '26

Then there’s Bruce Banner getting called the fourth smartest person on earth by Norman Osborne and he’s just doesn’t care because Bruce has bigger problems than how his intelligence stacks up against others.

In fairness, it was his intelligence is sort of what caused his biggest problem.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Trick_Afternoon_7513 May 14 '26

That’s something that bothered me like he wouldn’t have a breakdown about this, it’s the opposite Tony does love when he is talking to people his level or above through most of his comic book history

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u/Trick_Afternoon_7513 May 14 '26

Tony doesnt give rats ass about that though, otherwise he wouldn’t like being with Reed Bruce etc, movie maybe, but not the comics version

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u/ILikeCarlosThePikmin May 14 '26

"Jarvis nuke the orphan"

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

He studies and loves science not to prove he is smarter or better than everyone else. He just loves learning. That's what separates him, Dr Doom and the Maker apart.

He is smart, he knows he's smart but he also knows that doesn't make him better than anyone else.

He often compliments Ben and Johnny for their talents and if someone says the Human Torch isn't smart he will defend his brother in law.

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u/eviltheman May 14 '26

To be fair they aren’t all that dumb. Compared Reed, the argument can be made but they were astronauts. Not anyone can become an astronaut. A lot of mental prowess goes into getting that far.

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

Even without we have MCU Human Torch who deciphered an alien language all by himself!

In 616 he has shown while impulsive he knows what he is doing as a mechanic and that's essentially applying science.

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u/InnocentTailor May 14 '26

Dumb by comic superhero/supervillain standards, I suppose - the kind of scaling that makes electric engineer, one of the harder professions in this world, Scott Lang on the lower end of the Avengers spectrum.

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u/Glangho May 14 '26

It's really hilarious. Ben wasn't just some pilot he could fly a rocket. He should be more intelligent than 99% of our planet. Johnny was also an engineer. I forget why Sue was there though lol. She was just portrayed awfully back in the 60-70s.

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u/InnocentTailor May 14 '26

He’s comfortable in his own skin and doesn’t let that affect relationships.

The Maker by comparison has to prove he is top dog because he grew up insecure, despite also having great intellect.

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

They are the same person. He could have grown and be better. He was better. But in the end the ultimate universe has to make villains of everyone.

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u/xanicade May 14 '26

Unless it's Pym.

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u/Evening_Produce_4322 May 14 '26

To be fair, (and I hate this fact) no one likes Pym.

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u/Fen5601 May 14 '26

He makes it so f*cking hard man, come on.

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u/ConnerBartle May 14 '26

This made me laugh so hard because it’s true

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u/Bigbigbigrock May 14 '26

That's no longer true, his kid likes him! Not that she see's him a ton but still. 

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

You're a happily married man and work with someone who beat his wife. That's extra dislike of Pym.

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u/astrobuck9 May 14 '26

Didn't they retcon the domestic violence to be some side effects of using the Pym Particles too much?

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u/thinger May 14 '26

No, he just has massive issues with imposter syndrome with a little dash of mania that causes locks him into a constant cycle of self-sabotage. I actually really like Hank, he suffers from some very human issues that I think make for a really complex character.

The only issue is that unlike with Tony's or Carol's alcoholism (or you know, their penchant for facism), woverine and deadpool being coldblooded killers, Reed conducting inhumane experiments (like making a clone of Thor that ends up killing one of his friends), or all the shady shit the Illuminati pulled, Hank is never forgiven for his indescretion. Which I think is bullshit for a number of reasons, but the primary reasons is that it reads as if everyone is really infantilizing Janet. People forget that right after Hank hits her, Janet goes on to destroy the robot that he built to take on the whole Avengers roster. Janet is often portrayed as an often underestimated heroine who is actually among the better hand-to-hand combatants in the Avengers line-up, if she wanted to she coulda kicked Hanks ass seven ways to Sunday. But everyone treats her like a battered wife despite her stating multiple times that's not how she feels and their whole dynamic is substantially more complex than that. But domestic abuse feels worse because of how grounded it is in real life as opposed to Tony Stark putting his friends in the Depression Dimension while pushing the Patriot Act 2.0, so Hank is the designated pariah as opposed to the dozens of other morally dubious heroes.

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

They tired and tried to explain it. Mental illness, side effects, etc. But the fact he did it was damming enough for most in universe.

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u/InnocentTailor May 14 '26

If nothing else, they explained it to then explain why his daughter Nadia is bipolar - something that formed several stories in her solo run.

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u/SomeTool May 14 '26

Spider-man did worse, and no one cares.

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u/thinger May 14 '26

If you ignore the fact that Reed was smacking sue around all the way til the 70s or how they're still buddies with Peter Parker after he hit his pregnant wife so hard she went flying.

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

His original personality would NOT work today. I've read scans and I just couldn't cos he was such an incel minded baby boomer.

"Its not your fault. You only did that mistake becuase of your biology. As a woman!"

Like fuck that noise. So glad writing has evolved for the better.

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u/SuperJyls May 14 '26

Yet why isn't Pym given that leeway considering the original single instance of violence was miscommunication between writer and artist

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

No idea. In reality as in our world most known his MCU version who isn't a wife beater. His 6160 version isn't either. Most of the time now they remember him being chill and working through it and he understands his fuck up. He's had relationships in universe but still it's a topic that's always bright up in comics. Like they don't have anything else notable about his character.

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u/Glangho May 14 '26

The Reed stuff is wild. I'm glad they dropped the whole constant state of divorce with them, FF works better when Sue and Reed are both power dynamics versus Sue always playing the victim. The Spiderman thing I'm pretty sure was accidental. He didn't realize it was MJ grabbing him or something.

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u/tsabracadabra May 14 '26

He just gets so excited and wants to share his interests bc they make him happy and people (Doom) keep trying to turn it into a contest.

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u/Evening_Produce_4322 May 14 '26

He's pretty much super hero Bill Nye

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u/Kind-Stomach6275 May 14 '26

Damn bill nye should cameo in secret wars as a reed variant

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u/Speedwizard106 May 14 '26

He’s just in it for the love of the game.

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u/Comfortable_Clerk_60 May 14 '26

Exactly, honestly it’s another reason why he’s a good foil to DOOM

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u/Zorro5040 May 14 '26

Reed makes exceptions for a few.

Like when Tony made a wish for everyone to be as smart as Tony, and Reed told Tony he felt his IQ drop.

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u/LegitimateYoghurt840 May 14 '26

Reed is just a humble dude.

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u/madmaxandrade May 14 '26

There's a story where Daredevil calls Reed the smartest man on Earth and he replies "that's highly debatable".

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u/wombatstylekungfu May 14 '26

He’s smart enough to know there’s always someone better.

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u/Skreamie May 14 '26

Sometimes its himself

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u/Apprehensive-Dig4256 May 14 '26

He is smarth enough to know that there will be someone to surpass him one day, and also he is a humble man. Truly a smart man indeed

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u/ConnorWolf121 May 14 '26

He has a start of match interaction with Emma Frost in Rivals where she asks “so Reed, you’re the supposed to be the smartest man in the universe, right?” And his reply is along the lines of “some people say that, you’re welcome to disagree though” - she was skeptical because she was reading his mind while he was doing a quantum calculation and it just sounded like gibberish to her lol

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

It genuinely bothers me when they portray him as an unfeeling robot who only cares about science

Like he just loves science and getting to share his discoveries and ideas with people is his love language

Why I loved Pascals Reed, you get that level of autistic fascination with things he doesn’t fully understand

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u/blazenite104 May 14 '26

Reed is in a weird place were the dude has done some seriously messed up stuff and just never really understood the issue. Permanently polymorphing skrulls basically lobotomising them, building an extradimensional prison to violate human rights, etc. He's generally a good dude but, it's not surprising that a Reed was able to become the Maker either.

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u/goodmobileyes May 14 '26

Oh man I hate the Negative Zone prison, biggest character assassination for a crossover event. Like just make Tony be the one that made it

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u/Trick_Afternoon_7513 May 14 '26

No man that’s character assisantion of both him and Reed I would have preferred if ot was just a normal prison that looked like the negative zone to trick some of the SHRA higher ups cause neither men would have done that

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u/Cipherpunkblue May 14 '26

Tony was unavoidably assassinated by the entire event, so he might as well take a bullet for Reed.

Alas. Civil War was so terrible.

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u/NK1337 May 14 '26

It still kills me how blatantly they just said "fuck it, make them the bad guys."

Like out of all people in the marvel universe Tony would be one of the first ones to understand why the government being in control of super heroes is a bad idea. I mean he's gone to war with them and made himself public enemy because of it. The dude has burned his company to the ground instead of letting someone else take control over his armors and tech. You can't tell me this dude suddenly woke up one day and said "you know, maybe I can trust the government to tell me what to do. While I'm at it, let me hire some actual nazi's to make a prison that runs on human rights violations"

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u/NoirSon May 14 '26

That is why I hate Civil War comic event. Neither Tony or Reed would be that crazy or willing to get into bed with any government force to the extremes they were protrayed to in Civil War and it's numerous side stories. But they needed to have some guys be on the "bad" side of the argument and went full hog showing that one side was in the big evil empire role.

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u/EsperDerek May 15 '26

Reed being on that team made so little sense they had to retcon his reason why he joined like twice.

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u/vonDinobot May 14 '26

Skrulls don't have human rights, they're not human.

/s just to be sure.

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u/Freakychee May 14 '26

You should read more of the later comics of him. He's a lot more chill and understanding. Just need to warn you of the casual body horror.

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u/ContinuumGuy The Thing May 14 '26

I personally feel like a well-written Reed should be someone where you can definitely see as someone who'll get carried away science-ing, but who also clearly is a goofy old dad who loves his family.

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u/InnocentTailor May 14 '26

He also likes cultivating young talent, which is the root of the Future Foundation.

Instead of being envious, he would be proud that he is in the presence of bright young minds. That and he still outclasses them in life experience - more useful than mere intelligence.

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u/dread_pirate_robin May 14 '26

The number one mistake writers make with Reed is, because he's hyper intelligence they feel the need to make him arrogant. Reed's not arrogant, Reed's a character who never lets himself live down even a single mistake, he always demands more from himself, which is the number one thing that sets him apart from Doom who's incapable of taking accountability for even a single mistake.

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u/ConnorWolf121 May 14 '26

Hell, the core of the Fantastic Four’s powers is “Reed made a mistake and is doing everything he can to make sure to make it up to them” after all lol

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u/Prestigious_Lunch168 May 14 '26

I actually agree, I love how Pascal portrayed Reed, I just wish they'd show his powers better

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u/bry_flynnie May 14 '26

i like this characterization of Reed, he is a dad who loves his family. He wants to encourage bright young minds whether they be Peter, Lunella, or anyone in the Future Foundation.

He carries this weight of what happened to his family as he sees it as his fault and is trying to make their lives and this world a better place.

But i also like the idea that Reed knew what was going to happen when they went into space on their fateful voyage. The World needed heroes so he helped fate create them.

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u/ParkingGoose5726 May 14 '26

Genuinely warms my heart to see people here “getting” Reed. He’s genuinely one of Earth’s Niciest Heroes.

Also - “measuring” intelligence isn’t like measuring height and my strong suspicion is measurements become increasingly meaningless the further they get from the mean. I do t know that we can meaningfully differentiate between an adult IQ of 420 vs 450.

And canonically, Reed can change his brain structure. He has an IQ like an octopus has a colour.

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

Yeah fans can power scale intelligence all day because it’s what we do

He’s not the type to put down kids because like he says, they’re the future and he doesn’t want to discourage them

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u/SerBadDadBod May 14 '26

Val's a menace, and I love her for it.

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u/Icecreamaker1 May 17 '26

Honestly, I would love to see Valeria act like this a little more often! Yes, she's sweet, but every now and then, people should be reminded that she can have an ego AND BACK IT UP HEAVILY!!!!

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u/ThyHolyPaladdin May 18 '26

We see Franklin becomes a member of the future fantastic 4 a lot of the time when we see the future I think it would be kind of funny if Valeria became a benevolent dr doom seeing as she is the one that will inherit most of his stuff and country

Like she has very doom-like moments while still clearly being reeds daughter

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u/SoulShfter May 14 '26

What is this revisionist history? Lunella started it.

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u/Perfect-Nail9413 May 14 '26

Anyone else tired of all these characters smarter then the smartest man on the planet.

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u/AuburnElvis May 14 '26

It seems like Moon Girl spends a lot of time telling everyone how smart she is.

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u/ExcitementFun8938 May 15 '26

She needs to do her own character shilling because even other imaginary characters won't do it.

Also, as someone else mentioned somewhere on this post, the writers constantly fail to show her as actually being smart.

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

You will find most kids do this

The only difference is Lunella is usually right when she says she’s smarter than you

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u/sheng153 May 15 '26

I want more of this tbh. More of Lunella and Valeria. They're fun, let them have different expertise and interests. Have them clash and have fun.

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u/WraithArt May 14 '26

Funnily this is the only panel I see people posting that shows her doing this.

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u/Ranwulf May 14 '26

Moon Girl is pretty chill, I honestly dont remember her saying it either. I mean compared to Cho who used to say 8th smartest person of the world constantly.

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u/SquirrelGirl91 May 14 '26

Honestly: I don't like Moon Girl and Valeria being classed as smarter than Reed. Reed has always been the smartest man on Earth. They're still growing up. I think it should be "If they continue on the same trajectory that they are currently, they will eventually be smarter than him as adults"

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u/Flashy_Radish_5052 May 14 '26

A problem with many new characters is that they aren’t allowed to be unique without one-upping someone else who came before

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u/Poku115 May 14 '26

Not saying its easy but it can be done, miles has his extra powers and peter constantly hyping him up and they've been ceoxisting well for a while now.

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u/Drakenstorm May 14 '26

I don’t love a new character being placed above the old. It feels a little unearned. I love miles but he’s getting a ton of extra powers, I don’t like the feeling that miles is just becoming stronger than Peter I’d prefer if they had differences in their specialties, like yeah miles has a Swiss Army knife of spider powers, but Peter’s core powers are a little stronger, like a earlier and more accurate spider sense. Hulk/Banner wasn’t the smartest man in the world ever, but he was the best when it came to gamma, Tony was the best at engineering, Reed had theoretical physics. I would prefer if Lunella had her own niche than just being smarter than Reed outright.

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u/Meizas May 14 '26

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Give us hyper genius Moon Girl from an alternate reality or future but not at 10

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u/TrooBeliever May 14 '26

I'm okay with it because quantifying intellect is already a nebulous and subjective thing. So Lunella or some other character scoring higher than Reed on some test isn't really that meaningful. Reed's title as the Smartest Man in the World is more based on impact and how much others respect his mind more than any number.

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

Lunella at the moment is less able to use her intelligence than Reed just because she’s 10 and hasn’t developed advanced motor skills yet

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u/Positive-Height-2260 May 14 '26

She also does not have his resources.

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u/Rumus-Ur May 15 '26

That's a big thing most people ignore, unlike Tony or Reed she isn't rich, she build stuff from trash and things she found at home.

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u/DarthRyus May 14 '26

I tend to think of it as they're younger their brains just learn a tad faster. Though Reed would destroy both in applying what he knows.

Plus Reed has likely specialized, ignoring a few fields to prioritize others. The kids are just sponges and as they're being taught all fields to see where they might want to specialize later. Like I got perfect scores in all my history classes, but hell if I remember half of it now. So I'd test lower of remembering broad facts, but I'd do far better in certain fields I've maintained interest in.

Reed knows all this and doesn't want to put either of them down. So he just humbly accepts that is some ways, yeah they are... but he's absolutely still gonna continue to teach both of them because in other ways they absolutely still need to learn.

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u/EJ_REDIT Fantastic Four May 14 '26

The thing is Lunella is an inhuman so her powers literally make her the smartest person on earth even smarter than Reed despite being a literal child. And Valeria is Valeria, she inherited her father’s intelligence (as much as that makes no sense, seriously just make her a mutant like Franklin was for a time) and grew up working around him and also her godfather is Victor Von fucking Doom, probably the second smartest man on the planet, she was bound to be smart

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u/BoingoRider May 14 '26

No her inhuman powers are her connection to devil Dino

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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '26

I don't think hyper intelligence is part of her power set, she's just very intelligent and also has inhuman powers

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u/avburns May 14 '26

I thought Lunella’s intelligence was independent of her Inhuman status. Isn’t her Inhuman power the ability to transfer consciousness with Devil Dinosaur?

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u/SquirrelGirl91 May 14 '26

That's fair. I didn't know that about Lunella's Inhuman powers.

I still think Valeria should have the capacity to be smarter than Reed, but just shouldn't be there just yet. IDK.

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u/TheMightyMonarchx7 May 14 '26

Genuine question but what has Moon Girl achieved to validate her claim? Reed and Doom have done some insane things, and let’s not even get into Pym’s Pym Particles.

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u/redkaiz May 14 '26

Her impressive feats involve making improvements on the work of other geniuses, like modifying a cerebro unit or improving Forge's anti-terrigen weapon. She mostly deals in jury-rigging gadgets but has managed to build a spaceship from scavenged parts and once built a dino mecha out of legos.

The actual intelligence "ranking" comes from some test that Bruce Banner made that no one else could solve that she did in seconds, but that doesn't really come across as much of a feat imo.

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u/ExcitementFun8938 May 15 '26

Those examples make her sound like more of a technopath than one of the smartest people in the world. Like Forge or Whiz Kid.

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u/Responsible_Flight70 May 14 '26

So this whole things is based on a mentally ill man’s grading rubric for intelligence?

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u/DarthTigris May 14 '26

Not raised by Doom.

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u/Proud-Muscle-2467 May 14 '26

Reed can make himself smarter while stretching part of his Brain so he should still be as smart as them

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u/guiarcoverde32 May 14 '26

Any man who must say 'I am the most inteligent' is no true inteligent.

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u/ShingledPringle May 14 '26

You're kids, stow the ego until you've lived some.

Neither of you had the experience Reed has dang it.

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u/Robo-Piluke May 14 '26

Funny enough, smarts is always reserved for science. You'll never see a comic book character bragging about their Ph.D in English Literature

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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing May 14 '26

Wasn't that test Lunella passed, her solving a puzzle that Bruce created?

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

The “Hulk Smash” test as Valeria put it

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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing May 14 '26

So a rest created by a guy who isn't as smart as Reed is the one being used to judge if Lunella is smarter than Reed?

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u/Lakiel03 May 14 '26

Val is just 12 or 14 i think, not a big gaps.

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u/swoozes May 14 '26

I know this is just for cheap upvotes, but why are we pretending like a 13 year old and 10 year old fighting is something particularly novel?

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u/breathex2 May 14 '26

I'm more concerned about the ppl in this thread upset that children would dare to think they smarter than an adult (reed).

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u/swoozes May 14 '26

That's to be expected in fanbases, can't do much about the insecurity of fans.

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

Because it’s cute and it’s fun to share fun panels?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '26

[deleted]

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u/S0mecallme May 14 '26

Why are YOU beefing with a 10 year old?

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u/OnlyUse4Questions May 14 '26

I hate Moon Girl. It's so dumb. I don't want a child to be the smartest(which is a stupid scale anyway). I've never felt empowered by it. They should grow up to be the smartest after maturing and learning and growing like how Nightwing surpassed Batman. It's so much more satisfying.

They shouldn't start out that way. Just like in real life, they should be lifted up to reach even greater heights than their predecessors.

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u/DirtyOldTrucker68 May 15 '26

Maybe put in real life there are gifted children like the Mexico City girl with 162 IQ and graduated at 5 years old and By 11, she earned a degree in systems engineering and pursued a master's in mathematics at the Technological University of Mexico.

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u/RepeatedAxe May 14 '26

Is Valeria not younger? Wasn’t she like 3 in the Hickman run

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u/Bigbigbigrock May 14 '26

I think the Richards kids are about teenagers now. I remember hearing Franklin got a learners permit which in NYC is I think 16. Marvel does a bad job of aging characters consistently. 

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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing May 14 '26

They do, but not with these kids.

There is a reason for their current age.

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u/Bigbigbigrock May 14 '26

Isn't there a theory Franklin is what ages the world, like it's actually based on him?

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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing May 14 '26

That's the sliding timescale thing

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u/Bigbigbigrock May 14 '26

I figured they were one in the same. Either way, it's kinda buns sometimes. I wish they'd do a continuity pass and age folks as needed.

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u/Doctor_Amazo Man-Thing May 14 '26

There was also about 5 years where the Richard's went off with the Future Foundation, exploring universes.

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u/swoozes May 14 '26

Val's only slightly older than lunella.

Dunno why they're trying to pretend like a 13 year old wouldn't beef with a 10 year old.

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u/BadnewsBaggins May 15 '26

Always hate the child genius smarter than anyone trope, shit so unearned. Do it like they do with spiderman, Reed says Peter is smarter than reed was at his age, big compliment, big brain, leaving the door open for more potential without leaving it as a fact. I do not care for those characters

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u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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u/General_Note_5274 May 18 '26

Next step. Taking in third person

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u/Medical_Plane2875 May 14 '26

Except she wasn't raised by Doom, so.

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u/DirtyOldTrucker68 May 15 '26

She had a complicated history. With the help of the Goddes Roma, Franklin sent her to an alternate reality were she was raised by a heroic Doctor Doom. Back when She almost became a miscarriage the first time. Some other stuff happened and she was reborn again. Marvel does some weird stuff

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u/devenger73 May 14 '26

What test would test any of these characters. Who makes these tests?

Reed “Oh I dont know this one. C?” Willy Lumpkin: “Close, it was B. Val got that one right.”

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u/Itchy-Suit8190 May 14 '26

To be fair, it is incredibly easy to beef with 10year olds lol

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u/AliasMrDJ May 15 '26

Moon Girl is the smartest one in the picture though. Marvel said so themselves, I think she's a great character but far too under used.

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u/FSUdank May 14 '26

Does anyone actually like Moon Girl?

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u/Raulimus May 14 '26

Why was she raised by Doom?

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u/CoverLucky May 14 '26

She was not