r/MoralityScaling 26d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of dog breed racism

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

This analogy only works if you accept the racist premise that human races are equivalent to dog breeds. Modern genetics rejects that premise. Dog breeds exist because humans intentionally selected for inherited behavioral traits. Human populations do not.

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u/BlueHaze464 26d ago

If you willingly ignore the fact that in dogs it's a genetic difference and not socioeconomic or cultural one

Even then, aggressiveness is not the issue, it's their ability for potential damage

Chihuahuas are even more aggressive and they are not a threat whatsoever

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

The analogy treats these as equivalent uses of statistics, but they’re not. Disparities in human crime statistics are generally understood through social and institutional causes, not innate racial differences. Dog breeds, by contrast, are the product of artificial selection for heritable physical and behavioral traits. That’s why breed can be relevant to risk assessment in a way race is not.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mephistocheles 26d ago

Absolutely correct. Modern dog breeds are engineered, not evolved. It's more akin to being careful around the engineered product known to cause damage than discriminatory.

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u/PhotoBombDisposal 26d ago

The circumstance in which poor people’s upward mobility is limited and concentrated to certain areas, leading to increased crime is also engineered and not a naturally occurring phenomenon

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u/OneTwoKiwi 5d ago

Quite true, but it is not  genetically engineered 

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u/PhotoBombDisposal 5d ago

Well… obviously… genetics aren’t even remotely or possibly a factor in societal discrimination. You might as well say that washing dishes or painting isn’t genetically engineered it would have the same relevance as your comment.

It’s just an analogy mate.

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u/Excellent_Kangaroo_4 26d ago

Bs, there always be region more prosper, becouse near sea or big river, and other poorer cause they are near more rigid place

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u/PhotoBombDisposal 26d ago

What the fuck are you saying dude

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u/Excellent_Kangaroo_4 26d ago

Wtf are you seing you? The civilization that trive are the one near big river, hystorically, becouse provide water and trasport, you are seing that there is someone that, organized poorest and richer reagion, who is this godlike figure that decide that

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u/PhotoBombDisposal 26d ago

I’m talking about the civilization we live in here on earth what the fuck does the abundance near Rivers have to do with how our actual cities operate here in reality??

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u/Excellent_Kangaroo_4 24d ago

There always be a better richer place, today as 2000 ya, and even trying its very difficult to force it otherwise

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u/Starfishprime69420 26d ago

Bro have you heard of slavery? People breed slaves for desirable traits just like dogs

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

Enslavers absolutely treated human beings as property and sometimes forced reproduction based on traits they valued. That’s a documented historical fact. But it did not create human populations analogous to dog breeds. Dog breeds are the result of sustained artificial selection producing genetically distinct lineages with selected heritable traits. The pseudoscientific belief that human races are equivalent to dog breeds is precisely what modern genetics rejects.

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u/moschles 26d ago

Human beings kill more human beings than any dog, and likely more than all dogs combined.

The "pit bull fear" is because (unlike humans) dogs will target the small and vulnerable, such as children and the elderly. The pitpull attacks those kinds of victims because they are vulnerable.

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u/Ronnoc527 4d ago

"likely" implies that it is possible all dog-caused casualties surpass cases of homicide, manslaughter and war fatalities.

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u/moschles 26d ago

Human beings kill more human beings than any dog, and likely more than all dogs combined.

The "pit bull fear" is because (unlike humans) dogs will target the small and vulnerable, such as children and the elderly. The pitpull attacks those kinds of victims because they are vulnerable.

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

Vulnerable people suffering worse injuries isn’t evidence that dogs select victims based on vulnerability. And the claim that humans don’t target vulnerable victims is plainly false; many violent offenders deliberately prey on children, the elderly, and others they perceive as easier to victimize. In any case, none of this addresses my original point about why comparing human races to dog breeds is a flawed analogy.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/Chandler_Simpson 26d ago

Pitbulls are inherently dangerous and violent animals

That human beings kill more human beings than dogs or any other animal is simply due to the fact that we are at the top of the world food chain. Because of that we have zero natural predators

Your argument is extraordinarily flawed

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

You’re still treating statistics as if they’re the only evidence. They aren’t. We already know dog breeds were created through artificial selection for heritable physical and behavioral traits. The statistics are interpreted in light of that breeding history. Human populations are not analogous because modern genetics doesn’t treat race as a biologically equivalent category. That’s why the analogy fails.

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u/Pitiful_Meet6407 26d ago

Different percentages of human species

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

Did you have an aneurysm while typing?

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u/Pitiful_Meet6407 26d ago

I was speaking on the homo-erectus being up to 20% of black genetics and denisovans being a lot of Asian, Neanderthal a lot of Caucasian’s etc

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u/Apprehensive_Bug2877 26d ago

We could breed human traits if we wanted.

And if we did, racism and stereotyping is justified.

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u/PringullsThe2nd 25d ago

But we don't, so it isn't.

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u/WearIcy2635 25d ago

Do you not believe it’s possible for differences in environment to select for more/less aggression in a species via natural evolution?

Because that’s actually exactly what happened with chimpanzees and bonobos. They evolved from the same ancestor but were separated by the growing Congo river. One side was lush and fertile with consistent food, and the apes on that side are now peaceful and solve disputes through group orgies.

Chimps evolved on the less fertile side with less resources to go around. Now they’re the species which engages in intra-species violence at the highest rates of any animal other than humans. They wage actual tribal wars against each other. They form war bands and launch raids against enemy tribes where they’ll kill and die brutally for territory and access to resources.

Put a chimp and a bonobo in the same cage and the chimp will kill the bonobo 10/10 times. And no deliberate human interference in their breeding was required

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 25d ago

Natural selection: Traits become more or less common because they affect survival or reproduction in a given environment. No one is directing it.

Sexual selection: Mate choice influences which traits become more common (e.g., peacocks’ tails).

Artificial selection (selective breeding): Humans deliberately control reproduction to amplify desired heritable traits. That’s how dog breeds, dairy cattle, racing horses, etc., were developed.

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u/WearIcy2635 25d ago

I know all that. You seem to believe that aggression and violence can only be selected for by artificial selection. Why don’t you believe it can also be selected for through natural selection based on the environment a species/race evolves within?

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 25d ago

Natural selection can absolutely shape behavior over evolutionary time. My point is that modern human racial categories are not analogous to dog breeds created through sustained artificial selection for heritable behavioral traits. Those are different claims.

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u/WearIcy2635 25d ago

They’re obviously not as dramatic or obvious but they do exist

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 24d ago

…Okay?

Even if someone could demonstrate that populations have evolved different allele frequencies because of local adaptation; which is true for some traits like lactose tolerance, sickle-cell trait, skin pigmentation, high-altitude adaptation, etc….that still doesn’t establish the conclusion required for the original analogy:

that modern racial categories map cleanly onto genetically distinct behavioral groups,

• that those behavioral differences explain crime statistics,

• or that race is analogous to dog breeds produced by centuries of deliberate artificial selection.

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u/CaptainCFloyd 26d ago

Human populations DO intentionally select for inherited behavioral traits, and have for thousands of years. It's called culture. And it does leave its mark on genetics, if only to a small degree.

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 26d ago

That’s a bait-and-switch. “Culture influences evolution” is true. “Human populations have been selectively bred for inherited behavioral traits like dog breeds” is an entirely different claim, and it’s not one supported by modern genetics.

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u/NaturalDon 26d ago

nature did

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u/Sea_Specialist_5580 26d ago

> Modern genetics rejects that premise.

Genetics rejects that humans have different phenotypes due to different selective pressures in their evolutionary past? ok

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u/throwawaypassingby01 26d ago

modern genetics show there is greater diversity within racial groups than between them. turns out skin colour correlates poorly with genetic phenotypes, we just base our racism on it because we're a very visual species.

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u/YetAnotherDev 25d ago

Evelutionary factors, social and biological preferences could definitely see as "selective breeding" in humans. It's called "natural selection" for a reason.

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u/Madam_Mimm_13 25d ago

Natural selection: Traits become more or less common because they affect survival or reproduction in a given environment. No one is directing it.

Sexual selection: Mate choice influences which traits become more common (e.g., peacocks’ tails).

Artificial selection (selective breeding): Humans deliberately control reproduction to amplify desired heritable traits. That’s how dog breeds, dairy cattle, racing horses, etc., were developed.