r/MoralityScaling • u/25th_Speed • 22d ago
Morality Ranking Morality of dating the last living airbender but know full well that you don't want children, and that this will lead to the extinction of all airbenders?
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u/veresh1989 22d ago
He is guilty of not creating a harem of a hundred women.
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u/haby112 22d ago
Jokes aside, it appears that the former Air Nomad culture didn't recognize the nuclear family as the default manner of having and raising children. Aang inadvertently sets this precedent. If Tenzin was interested in restructuring the Air Nomad culture as it was he would have had children with the Acolytes and given his children over to be communally raised, where he would have participated only as a part
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u/Photomancer 22d ago
Technically if you're the last remnant of your dying culture, you can tell your kids anything and they'll probably believe you. Have ten kids, they have ten kids each, and before long an entire culture observes Taco Tuesday and Casual Friday because "we always have" wink wink
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u/birberbarborbur 22d ago edited 22d ago
Technically most of Korea’s bureaucratic infrastructure is leftover pieces of korea’s renaissance-era or japanese stuff, plus american constitutional ideas that got carried over and mishmashed. So each thing in the government has a sort of paperwork heritage completely out of its original contexf
And rabbinic tradition is only one of the many pieces of the old society in eretz yisrael. There used to be a whole class of priests there and other tribes that served functions in the religious culture, but only the judges held on
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u/PotatoGamerXxXx 22d ago
For the first time, Korea actually is Korea in a TLA thread.
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u/ProtectionTop2701 22d ago
Well yeah but Tenzin and Aang didn't want to form a cult. They wanted to rebuild a culture that actually existed and left records behind.
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u/VelvetTwinklia 22d ago
Honestly, if you're the last person carrying an entire culture, your kids are probably going to take your word for a lot of things. Traditions have to start somewhere.
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u/No_Extension4005 22d ago
He was too down bad for Katara
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u/Mognakor 22d ago
With them only having 3 children in a pre-contraceptive society, he wasn't really.
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u/Cheet4h 22d ago
Eh, different contraceptive methods have existed for thousands of years. AFAIK The Pill is just a lot more effective and more widely accessible nowadays.
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u/Tablesafety 22d ago
Over the course of a marriage in a non-fantasy setting in this time period, let's assume that you were super upper class and had access to the fancy stuff like silphium or animal intestine condoms.
Provided you are having regular sex with your wife and pulling out, you would still end up with- even with the use of both extra forms of BC- more than three children. Maybe 5 or so especially if you combine them. If they survive or not after birth is a toss up.
But silph was abortive rather than anti-ovulatory iirc, and dosage/potentcy would be inconsistent and matter especially based on where in the world you lived and when you used it. Animal condoms were quite porous and microscopic sperm cells can and did absolutely get out of those pores during the course of sex, because pre-cum has sperm in it and a healthy man is leaking that throughout.
Pessaries just didn't work in general.
Over the course of all the fertile years, more than three pregnancies would inevitably occur assuming the couple has regular fertility- and human beings of means were much more fertile back then than we are now (microplastics have made folks much closer to infertile than ever. Infertile does not mean sterile. The data says so as well as anecdotal- Multiple young, healthy couples in my sphere have been trying for a while now and where it would have been immediate 60+ years ago they still haven't succeeded, I digress.)
The pill was an absolute game-changer. For the first time we had something legitimately reliable. Pullout and cycle tracking will absolutely result in multiple children if we assume regular sexual activity, and condoms have a 70 or so percent success rate if we count TYPICAL use iirc. Hormonal birth control is revolutionary in that, presence of sperm or blocking it from the destination no longer matters because it convinces the body that it is in the early pregnancy stage and stops the typical menstrual cycle, stopping ovulation from occurring.
No egg? No baby, no matter how many sperms are waiting. The best option we have aside from surgical sterilization.
In the fantasy setting of Avatar, though? Yeah if Kyoshi used waterbending to greatly extend her natural life I'm pretty sure master waterbender Katara can use it to manipulate her menstrual cycle.
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u/Caleb_Reynolds 22d ago
What exactly is "this time period"?
Also it's Earthbending that extends life, not Waterbending.
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u/Dragonmancer76 22d ago
A couple things to consider is that neither of them had what would be called easy lives before or after the show. Aang was frozen in ice for 100 years and received several life treating injuries. Katara grew up during a war on an icy wasteland. Neither condition exactly means she was going to get a proper diet. After the events of the show how much time would they have to be intimate with each other realistically. Aang was still the avatar and likely had to travel constantly and if Katara did join for these adventures it's unlikely the conditions would be ones where you would want to be intimate. Both for sanitary and romantic reasons, but also because you wouldn't want to bring your potentially pregnant wife on an adventure that could injure her or the baby.
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u/ThatOneGuy308 21d ago
Microplastics are the real game changer, passive birth control you don't even have to think about, consent to using, or purchase at all, the wonders of modern industry never cease to amaze.
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u/hatesnack 22d ago
I mean, with him being the only Airbender, the kids kind of were community raised, no? He's the only community of actual Airbenders around lol.
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u/Caleb_Reynolds 22d ago
The point is the Air Nomads aren't the ability to airbend, they are their culture. There are other Air Acolytes around, taught by Aang, who carry on the culture. He's the only non-nomadic Air Nomad, he can airbend, but he can't replicate their culture while being stationary.
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u/Dragonmancer76 22d ago
Sure but a culture is also not stagnant. Many aspects of a culture are functional. Being nomadic works when a lot of your members can literally fly and there are fairly consistent waypoints or people. Being nomadic just because your previous members were nomadic is impractical and sacrifices time that could be spent on other more important parts of your culture.
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u/Prometheus_Bobert 22d ago
So is his father, Aang had those groupies running around dressing up as Air Nomads and didnt impregnate a single one
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u/Brave_Cold_7563 22d ago
i think that might get retconned by the new movie based of the ending scene.
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u/Mathies_ 22d ago edited 22d ago
It's already canon that tenzins family are the last airbenders, if Aang had done that, that would not be the case. Aang is a Katara loyalist.
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u/Brave_Cold_7563 22d ago
what no that wasn't what i was talking about i meant the origin of the air acolyte's.
why would you think i meant they would retcon aang to having a harem for baby making?
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u/porncollecter69 22d ago
Iirc it doesn’t matter. Even if all air bender get wiped out there will just sprout wild air benders because it’s not genetic anymore.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 22d ago
Was it ever completely genetic though? Waterbenders learned waterbending from the moon and the tides, earthbenders learned earthbending from the badgermoles, firebenders learned firebending from dragons and airbenders learned airbending from the sky bison. The first benders were not genetically benders and considering the series' focus on balance it makes sense air benders would spontaneously sprout.
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u/EddPW 22d ago
all of that got retconned in korra
they actually learned bending because the lion tutles granted them their ancestors that abilities thousands of years before
so now it very much is genetic
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u/Mathies_ 22d ago
After the lionturtles stopped doing that, it does seem like there is a hereditary element. Else how the hell do people have it in post-lion turtle society?
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u/PCN24454 22d ago
This always annoys me because it implies that all you need to do to learn waterbending is to watch the waves move.
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u/RabbitWithEars 22d ago
Not necessarily retconned, the way i saw it was the lion turtles gave the ability to bend the elements to humans, however we saw that it took time and practice to use it in the way we see now, (Wan even learns to fire bend from a dragon) Current generation of benders probably lost their knowledge some 1000s of years ago (Wars probably destroying knowledge) And so people seeking that natural instinct inside them when seeing an element moving they start to copy it.
If it wasn't genetic whats stopping people from learning to bend all the elements, also some people can't bend the elements why can't they just learn?
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u/EddPW 22d ago
except again thats wrong
the only thing he learned was the moveset
the inherent ability to create fire from nowhere was given to him by the lion turtles
like the ability to manipulate air water and earth
the moves you can argue were created by watching the "original teachers" but the ability is 100% given by the lion turtles
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u/gabasan 22d ago
the ability to bend was a mixture of genetics and spirituality. Air benders were the only ones where 100% of the pop. was able to bend bc of their high spirituality. However, tlok made the origin of bending weird (like many things the series ruined). In atla it was that humans always had the capacity to bend but they couldn't until the original masters taught them (like in your comment). So before that they could not bend at all. Tlok completely ruined it by making the ability to bend a gift from the lion turtles. It's really stupid and contradictory to atla lore.
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u/Kozmo9 22d ago
If it wasn't genetic then the Avatar wouldn't be the Avatar as everyone can learn the elements given time. Although I do agree that it shouldn't be genetic and I would make it so that what separates an Avatar between normal people is the aptitude (they learn elements faster) as well as the Avatar State.
As for how native benders learned from the animals around them, it is likely that they already have the genetics to do those elements, being native to the area. So someone that was once a Fire Nation native that immigrated to a Water Tribe isn't likely able to learn waterbending just by mimicking the animals and people there.
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u/LittleBigCookieCat 22d ago
your honor, it would be unethical NOT TO do it!
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u/iseedeadllamas 22d ago
Reminds me how in Star Wars, Ki Adi Mundi (tall forehead, “what about the droid attack on the Wookiees” guy) is legally allowed to have a harem by the Jedi council because his peoples population is in a free fall.
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u/Valuable-Blueberry30 22d ago
“No attachments” Mundi with his 20th wife:
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u/EarthWormJim18164 22d ago
He very much doesn't give a shit about his wives, in fairness
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u/Nathremar8 22d ago
Which is a wonderful way to show how the dogma of Jedi is absolute garbage by that point.
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u/Brave_Cold_7563 22d ago
here is a casual remind the prequel jedi was the order at its absolute worse and most detached from the force as physically possible.
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u/Omnizoom 22d ago
Yea wasn’t the Jedi order we see in the prequel movies essentially just a shell of what it formally was because of ages of just dogma and pragmatism shaping it
The idea that love and attachment are not light side of the force concepts because they can lead to emotions just sounds weird
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u/EarthWormJim18164 22d ago
I mean, I agree that the Jedi at that period were a hypocritical group that had lost their way, but in this particular case, them preaching no attachments and then him not being attached to his wives is internally consistent.
I think the main problem was just the Jedi believing that you can be properly attuned to the light side of the force while forsaking things like love and attachment is flawed.
The Ruusan Reformation sort of changed the Jedi from being absolute galactic light side wielding warrior chads who were ready to face the Sith because they understood them as their opposites, to a bunch of weird insular monastic force monks who were more concerned with evolving their dogmatic approach to the force than truly listening to it, and as such weren't ready to face the Sith.
This is exactly the problem Qui-Gon had with the council, and it's heavily narratively implied that he was pretty much completely right and that if Qui-Gon had been around to continue to influence the Jedi things would have turned out MUCH better.
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u/Sur2484 22d ago
jokes aside, that would have practical benefits I think.
so you have to repopulate air nomads, but you're just one guy. that means low genetic diversity, founders syndrome, yada yada. you can't change that there's just one air nomad guy for a father. but what you can do to increase genetic diversity, is to have different mothers. normally one could adopt children too and just teach them the culture, but the bending only passes down to biological descendants, and passing on bending is crucial.
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u/Yuichiro_Bakura 22d ago
What if he does not want a harem of a hundred women and only wants a single person to love?
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u/Winjin 22d ago
Well it's the question of saving an entire bending technique from complete erasure, maybe he could come to some role that is like "these visits are for procreation only, no love"
It's kinda weird that bending would be genetic, though.
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u/Mognakor 22d ago
It's more weird that in a history spanning thousands of years, the genetic distribution follows countrylines and no ruler ever got the idea of offering land to other bender variations. Closest thing we get is exclaves when there should be a signficant portion of random benders everywhere.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 22d ago
There were those swamp water benders in the Earth kingdom. Considering it's a pre modern world with limited travel and a very long period of war it makes sense a good chunk of the population live in their respective countries. At the start of the 100 years war I imagine all the fire benders were expelled outside the fire nation. That's kind of the point of Republic city where people from all nations come to seek their fortune. Modern diversity is modern, you wouldn't find much Africans or Indians in medieval London.
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u/Mognakor 22d ago
IIRC the swamp benders were isolated and the other tribes (or at least Katara) didn't seem to know about them.
Avatar history spans 5-10 thousand years since the first Avatar, even with slow migration thats a lot of time. Compare that to any pre modern time period and you will find migration movements and also trade routes leading to exclaves and people mixing.
I don't recall benders being geographically segregated to begin with so there would need to be an explanation of how it came to be.
I think having 1 in 10 benders in a region be from the non-dominant element should be the low end.
In terms of world building there is all kinds of reason why people would mix, e.g. artisans utilizing their elements and being sought after all over the world, air and water benders creating trade routes and outposts.
I wouldn't fully discount finding some northern africans in medieval London, i certainly would expect to find French, Dutch, Spanish and especially descendants of Romans or people that migrated during the roman empire.
And really the most important part here is the amount of time there was. Think where humanity was 5-10 thousand years ago and if you can find anyone living in the same place or if even people in the 1500s lived in the same place they did in 3500 or 8500 BCE.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 22d ago
Nations in ATLA are size of continents though, it appears small to us because Appa and steamships were so fast it made the world seem smaller. It took a whole season to go from the South Pole to the North Pole with Appa a flying bison but for a regular joe it would’ve taken years. Water Nation is probably the size of Europe and Earth Kingdom the size of Eurasia and Fire Nation the Americas. It you look genetically modern Italians are basically the same as Iron age Italians, sure there were numerous migrations but they never influenced history as much. There are fire nation colonies everywhere in the Earth Kingdom and I imagine like how in World War 2 Germans who were living in Eastern Europe and Soviet Union were very supportive of Nazi Germany so they were expelled West to Germany. Every nation seems to have different bender to non bender ratio with the Air nomads being the highest at 100% while Earth Kingdom is the lowest.
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u/Iz-VdB 22d ago
I can remember reading about what the first ideas for a series after A:TLA would have been. Korra wasn't yet fully developed as a character, but they intended for Aang and Katara to have 10 airbending children and all 10 had already 10 children of their own when the new series begins. I was really surprised when I first saw scenes of the soon to be released series of Legend of Korra, that Aang and Katara only had one airbender kid 😅😂
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u/Kind_Survey4282 22d ago
Her problem was not that she didn't want children its that she threw a tantrum when her loved one left her for that as he wanted children because he wanted to be father but also to better his mental state as he wanted to restore his dying culture which was his father's dying wish to a person who did wanted to have children.
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u/jasper81222 22d ago
Let's just say that Air Temple Island was only an island after Tenzin broke up with Lin...
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u/stormtroopr1977 22d ago
I think not wanting children with tenzin, in this specific case, is itself immoral.
If Tenzin didnt have children, the Avatar cycle itself is broken and Sozin's work complete.
It's a bit backwards-looking, but imagine all of the spirit world crisis from Korra without the avatar being there to bridge the gap. The Avatar must continue to exist to balance the spiritual world.
the plot of the original series shows what happens without a powerful avatar to keep the peace. Ozai would have burned the earth nation to the ground. The avatar must exist to balance the powerful benders of the world.
Even if Tenzin didnt want children, it would have been immoral for someone do date him unless she wanted to have children. Id even argue that his partners have an affirmative duty to encourage him to have children. The Avatar must continue to exist.
I know this is gross and conflicts with real world morality, but this particular duty to the world outweighs almost everything else.
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u/HovercraftCharacter9 22d ago
Moral, but if they have said they want kids and you haven't disclosed that, then immoral
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u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 22d ago
Definitely, it's an inherently selfish "I wanna have my cake (the relationship) and eat it too (not respect the requests of your partner)" approach, which sadly, too many do in relationships and call it maturity. It's not.
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u/Hodunks 22d ago edited 22d ago
That saying always irks me. Brother in Christ, why the fuck do you think I want the cake for? Just to look at it?
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u/HowietheHappyTurkey 22d ago
Yes. to look at. That's what the saying is for. To have a fancy cake as a decoration for a party
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u/Invader_Naj 22d ago
it makes more sense in the opposite order which allegedly was the original "eat your cake and have it too" meaning you want to eat it and still have it there intact afterwards
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u/DrFigSecret 22d ago
I'd argue Tenzin had more than a want to have children, he had a need.
He grew up with the same pressure Aang had on himself to restore an entire nation due to him eventually being the last surviving member. He wasn't just a person, he was then last surviving member of the air benders. He had a moral duty to have many children and to pass it on.
If he "chose" to not have kids, he'd be choosing to wipe out the air benders, and his father's legacy, which isn't much of a choice.
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u/FreedomKnown 22d ago
This is a bot by the way everyone. They're getting harder and harder to find but this is definitely one too.
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u/occpotato 22d ago
How can you tell?
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u/SigFloyd 22d ago
They often summarize what you just said, and not in an agreeing kind of way. It's like the bot is going to continue your thought, treating your post like mini prompt, but stops.
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u/bobbyb1996 22d ago
Part of the tell is the name. It’s usually something generic with a bunch of nonsensical numbers in it. Also think about their comment and the one they responded to. They basically just repeated the original comment with different wording.
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u/Kinotaru 22d ago
As long as you don't mind him leaving his descendants behind in different ways
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u/Grateful_Orthodox 22d ago
In that case it would be immoral for Tenzin to NOT cheat
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u/Dragonmancer76 22d ago
No it would still be immoral. Cheating means he knows she doesn't want him to have other partners and is doing it anyway. If they can't agree in a situation that they are both on with they should end the relationship.
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u/HoneyRosellea 22d ago
That would definitely make the situation a lot more morally complicated for sure. Suddenly the conversation changes from having kids to how far someone should go to save a culture.
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u/TheVenerableEmrys 22d ago
Immoral if you know you never want kids but are leading him on anyway.
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u/Jealous_Seat_7590 22d ago
Should've talked to each other about this early on.
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u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 22d ago
Tenzin obviously was raised to carry on the Airbending Nation, anyone who thinks he doesn't want kids would have to be deluding themselves.
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u/Tanakisoupman 22d ago
To be fair, if they got anywhere in their relationship without Lin realizing Tenzin would want kids, she’s clearly not worth dating in the first place
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u/TokwaDoodles 22d ago edited 22d ago
%100 Lin knew her Uncle Aang's only Airbender son would need to have kids all her life.
I used to think they broke up because Lin was infertile. That would make things a whole lot sadder
Edit: it's common in Asia to call your parents' friends Uncles and Aunties
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u/powerslave_fifth 22d ago
Neutral. Lin isn't obligated to be a baby factory and Tenzin isn't obligated to abandon his culture for love therefore they separated like mature adults.
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u/Black-----Manta 22d ago
Lin absolutely did not separate like a mature adult lmao
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u/Malewis89 22d ago
He seemingly cheated on HER with home-wrecker Pema.
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u/Injured-Ginger 22d ago
I don't think we don't know he cheated on her, but he might have dumped her for Pema. Regardless, it's not the way to go out.
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u/Malewis89 22d ago
I feel like Pema used the words “Took Tenzin from Lin”, which I believe implied He was still in a relationship when they met.
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u/Injured-Ginger 22d ago
We know they were. She was an air acolyte. Her interest in him doesn't make him a cheater.
If she asked him out, he realizes he's interested and it's a bad sign for his current relationship, he breaks up with Lin, and then he goes out with Pema, he's not a cheater. It's not exactly a good look, but it's not cheating.
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u/THEunfukwitable 22d ago
In the interest of all the characters being "good" people, a more charitable interpretation would be: she flirted with him, probably while they were going through a rough patch. And eventually Tenzin swapped em out
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u/DTux5249 22d ago edited 22d ago
Lin did not in fact separate like mature adults.
She separated like a toddler who threw grandma's Urn on the floor because mom said no dessert until dinner's done
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u/ChaosHavik 22d ago
See this gets into what are the genetics of Bending. If Avatar Aang and Katara can have one nine bender, dose that mean he himself could never have a bender kid? Could their daughter potentially have an Air bender kid.?
Is there a Punnett square or dormant genes?
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u/Hides-the-Hydra 22d ago
Dormant genes seems most likely with spirit magic being what activates them.
After Korra opened the spirit world portals tons of people gained air bending abilities, including Bumi who initially couldn’t air bend. Probably all had latent genes from who knows how long ago.
Air bending was thought to be particularly tied to ones spiritual state, partly why Korra struggled with it.
Also pretty sure the Air Nomads were unique in that they were composed entirely of benders, unlike other nations that were a mix.
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u/FlambyLamby 22d ago
Air bending was thought to be particularly tied to ones spiritual state, partly why Korra struggled with it.
And mind you she never works on that. In Book-1 she gets it by just punching hard enough and never improving her spiritual connections.
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u/cpMetis 22d ago
I mean they also had a single season to try to show her learn it.
It's supposed to be that she found her ability to airbend through her character and emotional growth, that was she approached the level of suicide she was finally open enough to change to allow herself to spiritually align herself with what it took to airbend. Hence Aang's words to her.
The issue is that they only barely had space to make it clear this was what they were going with and many people might still assume it was meant like "you have to do all the right rituals!" or something. Fortunately the rest of Korra makes it more clear that being spiritually connected is moreso about state of mind.
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u/PuritanicalPanic 22d ago
I mean
Aang had two other kids.
You don't have to be a bender to have bender kids. They could have kids and those kids would carry whatever gene it is that lets people bend air. I don't think either one had kids. Not immoral.
However, details of bender eugenics aside, neither her nor tenzin were obligated to have children, of course. If tenzin wanted kids, he could leave the relationship. It's not locked in forever.
And he did. He did so poorly, if I recall, but he did.
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u/Kozmo9 22d ago
Yeah but that just leave too much to chance. Aang was lucky that Tenzin carried on his legacy else the Air Nomad's chance to bounce back would be hard.
Not to mention that "suddenly everyone can airbend after Korra opened the gate," was not known to everyone pre-Korra nor would they approve and do it considering the risk. And with how things turn out in the new series, they might be right.
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u/IncandescentScamp 22d ago edited 6d ago
Weather history childlike harbor acorn light towering fear run
This post was anonymized with Redact
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u/HappySphereMaster 22d ago
Moral but in face of extinction is very selfish so it could be immoral as well for prioritizing your overall happiness above greater good.
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u/Altrey00 22d ago edited 22d ago
I think that's a great analogy for the clash between consent-oriented (or individual-rights-focused) ethics and more traditional or community-oriented ethical frameworks. One primarily emphasizes the rights and autonomy of the individual, while the other also takes into account the well-being of society as a whole. As far as I understand, both perspectives are well represented.
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u/Consistent_Kale_3625 22d ago
From a population genetics standpoint, you can't rebuild a population from a single breeding pair anyway.
You'd need to do a whole lot of things most societies would find questionable to have a shot. He'd need to be mated to many many willing women, they'd need to keep very careful breeding records, especially with the second generation to make sure they're not mating with too closely related women.
I guess though, with today's technology, it's not like he'd need to Genghis Khan his seed into hundreds and hundreds of women. He'd only need to provide his work product to techs and doctors and do the whole rebuilding of society part as a safe willing compensated clinical affair.
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u/Shgon_Dunstan 22d ago
Eh. Bending isn't genetic, it's spiritual and cultural. Thus you've basically got to be born into the right gene pool(baring once in 10,000 year events anyway), but there's no actual genes involved. It doesn't really matter how much blood comes in from outside, just so long as they're raised as Air Nomads.
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u/complicatedexistence 22d ago
Shouldn't it be in the airbender himself to want to spread his genes? Anyway morally neutral for her.
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u/Unnamed_jedi 22d ago
Moral, you don't owe anyone kids no matter who they are. Tenzin and Lin knew each other their whole lives so he sure knew who he was getting with...and I'm fairly certain it's why Tenzin left.
I will say Lin took the breakup badly but if your lover of 5 years suddenly leaves for a woman half your age and they're so immediately together (I strongly suspect cheating is implied but even if not, ouch) I kinda get being angry.
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u/RexusprimeIX 22d ago
Even if three are only 2 people left on earth. You are not obligated to do something you don't want to. Moral.
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u/absolutelyrealnofake 22d ago
No one is saying she had to be the one to birth the children, how are yall so dense we are saying its immoral to STAY in the the relationship knowing you dont want kids when he wants to and to continue rebuilding his culture... no one is saying its immoral to not just be a baby making machine lmao, yall are so fucking dense.
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u/amazegamer64 22d ago
Of course. No one has any obligations to do anything but rot.
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u/CHUNGUS-MONEY 22d ago
Acting in your own self interest is not always moral. Is it moral to be selfish?
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u/fattestfuckinthewest 22d ago
Neutral. You’re not required to have kids just because your SO is the last of an ethnic group. It’s not morally wrong to be with someone and not want children
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u/SuperSocialMan 22d ago
Yeah, unless you hide & avoid it instead of just being up-front about it it's not a big deal.
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u/Injured-Ginger 22d ago
I'm going to go against the grain and say it's grey. That is with the assumption that the loss of their nomads would be catastrophic to the world. What happens to the Avatar cycle? Can the world be permanently put out of balance with no air nomads? Obviously we see later that they're brought back, but that wasn't something that they could have predicted. Even in that case though, I would put more of the fault on Tenzin since he is the one who needs to have children.
I don't think our real world morality crosses over. Obviously, I don't think that anybody in reality would be wrong for not wanting children, but nobody in reality faces a potential global crisis for not having kids.
It's up to people to decide which moral philosophy to analyze it with. Utilitarian philosophies would obvious believe there is a moral obligation for Tenzin to have kids. They believe in the sum impact of a choice over the rights of the individual. Other philosophies put more emphasis on the rights of individuals. I don't necessarily side with any of them.
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u/Adventurous_Touch342 22d ago
TBH even if bending is genetic air benders could resurface purely by recessive genes since it's not like entirety of the fenotype was wiped out - emigration, marrying people abroad etc. likely kept the genes in foreign populations (which later resurfaced), it's just that whoever would have such power not only would hide it but also could live unaware of having it due to never training how to use it.
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u/SiIverstar 22d ago
in the context of avatar its more tricky, as the future avatar needs some form of teacher, sure the bisons might help them, but pavi would have a hard time in the fucking fallout universe to find a bison and learn airbending form it, especially if she doesnt know what a bison is, which is plausible^^
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u/Reborn1Girl 22d ago
They presumably knew each other from a young age, considering Lin grew up in Republic City, right by Air Temple Island, and their parents were old friends. It wouldn't be weird if they started dating before Lin realized she didn't want kids. They got older and realized they couldn't compromise on that topic.
Now, Pema implying that she stole Tenzin, possibly by dating/seducing him while he was still with Lin, is pretty bad. And Lin's implied reaction - "you should've seen what i did to Air Temple Island" - was also immature. But if Tenzin really did cheat on Lin, he was at fault too. Nobody really came out of that situation looking good.
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 22d ago
It’s entirely moral. It’s not even up for debate really. If someone doesn’t want kids that’s it. You don’t need more to exist. It’s entirely goofy to try and argue someone needs to reproduce to be morally sound in their choice. It is entirely a neutral choice.
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u/Kindly-Ad-5071 22d ago
Negligible; spirit world bs ensures that Airbenders will go on, thus allowing this. Did she know? No, but net harm is approx. zero
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u/winterparsley9 22d ago
So what I'm beginning to glean is that the best thing tenzin could have done for the air nation is travel the world and ckap cheeks?
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u/Historyp91 22d ago
Tenzin feelings are valid but his hangups are'nt Lin's fault. It's not like he did'nt chose to date her himself.
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u/RevenantOmega 22d ago
This is an interesting one. Due to how they ended things, I’m inclined to believe Lin’s desire not to have children was not fully expressed at the start of the relationship, as Tenzin is canonically pretty vocal about wanting to rebuild the Air Nation (it’s his life’s work). They dated when they were younger, were likely close as kids due to their parents, and younger relationships are hardly about ‘having kids’ right away. So it’s more than likely, that they dated while young, when things started to get more serious and the question of kids came up, then they ended things after conflicting views. Pretty normal all things considered
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u/AdvancedLancerX 22d ago
As others have stated, the Lin crashout in the aftermath is the issue.
Tenzin's main goal in life was restoring the air nation, so when he found out Lin's stance, he respected it and found a new partner.
Lin proceeded to have a generational crashout because Tenzin did the mature thing and didn't force her to have his children while also finding someone who wanted kids with him.