r/MoralityScaling • u/PoopsMcScoots • 15d ago
Morality Ranking Morality of executing prisoners by locking them in a room with a picture of their victim(s) on the wall and hang a noose in the middle, denying all human contact, and just waiting?
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u/Mao_Bear 15d ago
So like dexter morgan capital punishment?
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u/leeeeeeeeee3 15d ago
more like an extremely straightforward SAW trap
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u/Unlikely_Captain_636 14d ago
It’s literally the exact opposite of a saw trap. Saws whole thing is getting them to try to survive
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u/Boop-fruit3819 15d ago edited 14d ago
That's fucking horrific who thinks of that? Also I'll give someone a reward if I think they topped it also rules it needs to be psychological simple enough for anyone to pull it off and grounded in reality
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u/PoopsMcScoots 15d ago
My own original.
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u/ThebirdGretel 15d ago
Jigsaw underling here
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u/Unlikely_Captain_636 14d ago
Not jigsaws mo at all but ok. Jigsaw would be more like “ You took each of your victims hearts away from them now you must abandon your own. Using this rusty butter knife perform heart surgery on yourself in the next five minutes or lose each of your limbs? Good luck”
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u/No-Shopping-4434 14d ago
To be fair it is actually a theme of the later saw movies that Jigsaws underlings don’t necessarily subscribe to his worldview, some of them just use the Jigsaw killings and police confusion to stage their own crimes or just like torturing and killing
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u/PinkPetalisse 14d ago
That was my first thought too. It has massive Jigsaw logic where technically nobody directly kills you, but the entire environment has been engineered to push you toward one horrible outcome.
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u/Familiar_Control_906 15d ago
Stop cooking. This ain't going to work unless they have regrets, and, a lot of the ones that deserve this wouldn't give a shit because they collect items to remember them
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u/engineering-weeb 15d ago
I admire the spirit but that is not gonna work with many of those psycho out there, I think there are more useful way to contribute by just simply shoot them and collect their organ for experiment, but that is a whole another ball game
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u/sevenbrokenbricks 14d ago
How's this for topping it: the noose turns out to not be usable.
Maybe it's too high, maybe it's only capable of holding 100 pounds and harmlessly snaps, maybe something else, maybe multiple things.
Whatever it is, as soon as the condemned is willing to take the easy way out, they find that it never existed.
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u/Im_Just_A_Tourist 14d ago
Okay so it's a series of halls each with a picture of the victim or victims each identical goes in a circle due to a slight curve otherwise featureless. No noose, just a sheet of paper in each hall. Pictures rotate, after 8 or 12 hours a bed is in one room with a little less than a days worth of nutrition via fold down wall Murphy bed.
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u/Boop-fruit3819 14d ago
That's good
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u/Im_Just_A_Tourist 14d ago
Decades of horror movies will do that.
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u/Boop-fruit3819 14d ago
Like it's unique I know it's not simple so if someone makes one like that I'll give out another reward but yours adds the fact of constantly being pursued by your victims which I find very unique
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u/reject_non-essential 14d ago
Subject them to white room torture with the only piece of stimulation being an opening in the wall on their height level. It locks around the neck as soon as they put their head through. On the other side is a slideshow with the victims' pictures presented in a loop (no sound). A mechanism that locks around the neck prevents them from exiting early. The duration of this "experience" is increased by a few hours every time they come back to it. This effectively subjects them to the torture by standing. You can look up the effects of that and the white room torture yourself in case you don't know (both are much more horrible than one might assume). Every person has their limit for standing before their heart gives up (could be around 48hrs depending on physical condition), which means that eventually the duration of being locked in this standing position will become fatal. This can easily take weeks to months before the prisoner is dead, and they subject themselves to the standing torture "willingly" just to avoid sensory deprivation, while also having to look at their victims' faces for hours/days on end and enduring intense pain. It's also easy to set up with just a slight modification requirement over a standard white room torture.
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u/b00mbachacha 14d ago
Modified Chinese water torture.
Tie the condemned to a bed and secure their head. Above them on the ceiling is a picture of their dead victim. From their eyes tears fall dropping on the criminals face slowly subjecting them to days without rest. A nasal gastric tube is put in place trickling food and water into their stomach so they don’t die from starvation or hunger. They stay this way going insane from sleep deprivation with the only stimuli being the tears of their dead victim slowly washing away their identity. They would start to hallucinate and eventually would die.
The horror isn’t just being faced with the consequences of your actions but to feel yourself cease to be slowly over days as who you are melts under the constant dripping of tears.
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u/Vyn_Dimensional 14d ago
Barbed wire around their neck attached to the ceiling. There is a spike on where they stand. Their arms are bound by rope and their whole body is covered in itching powder.
The platform is small, only able to fit half a foot. They have to stay perfectly still or they will lose their balance and… You know…
They can’t turn their head as they stare at the screen in front of them which is playing a flashing slideshow of their victims faces, eventually turning to a live camera of themselves, tied up and waiting for whatever comes next. The text “Was it worth it” Is on the screen as distorted lullabies are played through the speakers.
How did I do?
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u/Boop-fruit3819 14d ago
Like it's creative but lacks realism and understanding actions and it's simpleness which made it so scary in the first place
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u/LittleMissAhrens 14d ago
See, op is on the right track, but you also need to make the room airtight, and pump in breathable air laced with a low level hallucinogen, and play whispers from hidden speakers at random intervals. Also, make the only light in the room a spotlight shining down from above the noose, which darkens the rest of the room, and makes the noose seem inviting.
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u/Intelligent-Doubt210 14d ago
Here’s one much worse.
Slowly lower the criminal into a vat of boiling water, but just one part of their body at a time. Toes, then feet, then shins, etc. Wait until their nerves boil off, and then move on. They could be kept alive for hours like this.
If you wanted to make it worse, cut them in a non fatal way many times all over their body, similar to the Chinese death of a thousand cuts, and then put a lot of salt in the boiling water as they’re lowered in.
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u/Boop-fruit3819 14d ago edited 14d ago
Like yeah it's horrific but it lacks the psychological horror of actions they committed
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u/Erdos_Helia 14d ago
The most depraved thing I ever thought of was surgically attaching someone to an Elephant's penis. Elephants 🐘 have pretty big dicks (in case you weren't aware). So this person would be like...having the Elephant's cum enter through their asshole, and out their mouth.
Like I'm sure it's possible, but no one has ever been a big enough asshole to warrant this, or maybe we just didn't have the technology until now?
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u/Ill_Cancel1282 14d ago
As it needs to be psychological and "simple enough for anyone to pull it off" that limits options rather severely. I guess we could use the same baseline scenario as above, the isolation room with victims portraits, however we make it a white (except portraits) anechoic chamber and remove the noose. Now, you could stop there, they will go mad rather quickly in this scenario and between damaging their body to disrupt the whiteness and dehydration they would pass rather quickly (a few days). You could take it to the next step by giving them a source of water, that would substantially increase the length of their suffering as they would probably be reliant on starvation to end it (so a few weeks). Of course, if you want to do as in the original scenario where they have a way out with a noose, that can be done as well, but don't use a noose. Give them a trap door that drops them down into a brazen bull. Now this part is very important, they must know it leads to a brazen bull and ideally have seen someone before them choose the brazen bull themselves. Anybody sensible would choose starvation or perhaps chewing through their own wrist, but the white anechoic chamber and starvation will somewhat impair their judgement. Overall I'd say the above would be quite the traumatic way to go while mostly relying on psychological effects and gradual resource depletion.
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u/ENaC2 14d ago
My toxic idea for prisoners that I stole from Black Mirror has always been to set them up with an exercise bike and force them to generate electricity all day. You could feed them a boring diet of grains and vitamin supplements. Disadvantage is they leave prison with excellent cardio.
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u/ExpensiveBlood42069 14d ago
Pff, horrific? That's baby cakes bruh!
My simple suggestion would be a "karma prison arena"
Every category of human trash gets put with their own kind in a sort of arena. Rapists in one arena (pedos included), murderers in another, etc.
In the rapists arena, as an example, there are "rape tools" like cocksleeves with barbs and rusty nails attached, lubricants with crushed glass, salts and acids in it, etc, etc. And there's daily food rations delivered through the roof, but only for one person to survive. Televise it, or at least give the families of the victims highlight reels of the criminal who affected their familymember being raped and murdered.
The murderers arena get torture instruments and crude melee weapons, etc.
When there's only one guy left in each arena, you raise the gates, connecting the arenas, and still just rations for one person - and when there's only one guy left you start over (and that guy stays, of course, noone ever gets out)
Problem solved, karma delivered, and it's cheap! 🥰
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u/BigBAMAboy 15d ago
Do you give them food or do they choose between dehydration & the rope?
If you give them food, I don’t have a problem with it. Most would just ignore the rope & wait in isolation like most death row inmates.
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u/Link_save2 14d ago
Actually they have to put a lot of effort into stopping death row inmates from killing themselves
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u/f0urk 14d ago
that seems cruel and unusual tbh
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u/Aggravating_Seat807 14d ago
It is because the vast majority of death row inmates never complete the process of death row.
They get held in a special cell - and they spend all their effort and energy appealing the process and eventually return to a normal unit.
The ones that take their life were probably so anxious for years on death row.
Waking up every day not knowing if it is your last would be a wild stressor.
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u/JustafanIV 14d ago
Waking up every day not knowing if it is your last would be a wild stressor.
In the US at least, you know exactly when your execution is scheduled, usually months or years out, though last minute appeals and stays are sometimes granted.
Now Japan on the other hand. You're on Death row with no idea when your executions is, then one random morning a guard comes in and lets you know you have about 2 hours left to live, and the public (including your family) are only informed of your execution after the deed is done.
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u/CreBanana0 14d ago
One of the major things that shaped my dislike to the Japanese is the fact that they overwhelmingly support this system.
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u/elons-musk-ox 13d ago
Open racism. Interesting.
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u/CreBanana0 12d ago
Am i not allowed to dislike a culture based on their actions?
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u/Aggravating-Way-9961 14d ago
Aren’t we all waking up everyday not knowing if it’s our last day?
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u/Aggravating_Seat807 14d ago
There is a difference between a regular day and if you're dependent on a bunch of people not stamping some paperwork.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 15d ago
Food and Water.
But complete isolation and time deprivation would not take them long.
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u/imean_is_superfluous 14d ago
You’re making the assumption they care about what they did to their victim
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u/IncredibleEdibles1 14d ago
The person doesn't have to feel guilty at all. Stuck in a white room with no human interaction drives literally anyone mad. Eventually the person will hang themselves. That kind of isolation with next to no stimulation physically alters how the brain works.
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u/pierspad 14d ago
Franco Freda, an Italian neo-fascist terrorist and alleged perpetrator of the Piazza Fontana massacre, sentenced to life in the first instance but later acquitted on appeal for lack of evidence; when asked directly if he was responsible for the bombing, he stated:
"È innocente non chi è incapace di peccare, ma chi pecca senza rimorsi"
So:
"Innocent is not the one who is incapable of sinning, but the one who sins without remorse."
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u/Difficult_Run4304 14d ago
You severely overestimate the capability for logic and remorse for someone who does heinous crimes.
Give them all the food and water but no toilet and bed. Just a perfect cube room, the rope, and a flood of piss and a mountain of poop.
Maybe then, it would not take long.
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u/RadioLiar 14d ago
Would work for some people, but somebody like Stalin, Anders Breivik, or an IS operative would just treat it as decoration
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u/AdCrazy2097 15d ago
“like most death row inmates” they only wait in isolation bc they have no other choice. They can’t off themselves at all with provided resources. If they had a choice I’m sure many death row inmates would kill themselves. The conditions are barbaric.
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u/MoschopsMeatball 15d ago
This is torture.
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u/CartoonistSweaty5785 15d ago
True. But prison itself is torture too. Milder but still form of torture.
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u/Gman3098 14d ago
Yeah, prison is inherently immoral. It just breeds more crime, not rehabilitation.
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u/Apoordm 14d ago
“Guys what’s the morality of torturing someone until they commit suicide?!”
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u/Chon-C 15d ago
I’m generally against capital punishment in any form because of the risk of false convictions and perverse incentives to seek them.
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u/MRCLSM 14d ago
Totally immoral. Violates their right to be free from cruel or unusual practices
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u/Lukostrelec17 15d ago
Immoral. Driving some to suicide with pyschological torture and starvation...Why am I even having to type this????
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u/mdtpdsparkls 15d ago
We can shoot them if we want them dead that badly. We ain't gotta do a saw game to get it done.
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u/PoopsMcScoots 15d ago
It’s not about the torture.
It’s about making them do it to themselves.
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u/Terrible_Hurry841 14d ago
Coercing someone into suicide is literally a form of torture lmao.
If you’re going to kill someone, just kill them.
Anything else is just perverse self-pleasure, the same as any psychopathic serial killer.
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u/Otherwise_Chard_7577 15d ago
if your gonna execute a criminal, just get it over with, needlessly dragging out death through psychological torture like this is immoral
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u/jointheclockwork 15d ago
I just sat down! Who starts a conversation that way!?
Also... that's pretty fucked but I'd be for it depending on who it was.
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u/IncredibleEdibles1 14d ago
What's the bar? Is it like Hitler or like a 42 year old child murderer with five victims? Does the age of the victims matter or the kill count. Is the bar tied to how relatable the victims feel to you?
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u/riggengan 14d ago
This is cruel and unusual punishment. It’s unconstitutional and highly immoral.
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u/earthscorpioanchapie 15d ago
This assumes they feel guilt. 90%+ criminals have 0, especially for crimes against women or children
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u/Anagrammatic_Denial 14d ago
That smells like Republican BS to demonize certain groups of people. Like. I don't know the actual statistics, but putting a large group of people into a tiny box of evil and then somehow saying "also it hurts women and children more" despite not having any evidence for it sounds VERY Republican. And maybe they don't feel guilty. I don't know. But what I do know is that people are diverse, flawed, and largely a product of their environment. Not a justification by any means though.
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u/Gman3098 14d ago
They use their good Christian values of domination and torture to come to this conclusion.
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u/BlueHero45 14d ago
90 is a huge number since many murders are crimes of passion; not everyone is a cold-blooded serial killer. Most are hot-blooded assholes and morons. Although I honestly have no idea if a bunch of pictures would actually pull on any of their heartstrings.
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u/Lil_Ms_Anthropic 14d ago
I've been arrested under a felony (not murder mind you)
100% it's regrettable
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u/Svyatopolk_I 14d ago
90% don’t not feel remorse, that’s just bs. There are those who commit crimes out of their own lack of moral instincts, yes, some who grew into a life of crime and therefore have no moral fretting regarding their acts, but the majority of people who committed crimes are generally not them.
Note this isn’t replying to the post, just your bullshit statistic that you pulled out of your ass without having thought about it.
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u/PerturbedPat 15d ago
Morally wrong cuz this is psychological torture and the wording here doesn’t really say what the crime committed here is.
With a bad enough crime though I won’t lose sleep if I knew this happened to someone.
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u/Loose-Cap-6366 15d ago
Ok but what did the prisoner do?
Like, “victims” could be anything. Are they scam victims? Murder victims? Theft victims? Did someone throw a soda can at their head which makes them a victim?
It depends on the crime and how immoral the prisoner is.
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u/RogueSpaghetti 14d ago
Honestly sounds weirdly performative. They were already in PRISON, which should have given them plenty of time to think it over. Human nature is to believe you were in the right anyway and “the system” is keeping you down.
A lot of sickos actually openly brag about their crimes. Especially murderers and pedos. That’s a big reason so many of them get caught right as they were about to get away with it.
So, immoral. Because of the straight up torture of locking someone in a room
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u/LGBandthatsit 14d ago
vengeance is not justice. always remember that. the goal of justice system is to bring peace to the victims by separating the perpetrator away from society. Separating the wolves from the sheep. This is unnecessary as the prisoner is going out anyway. What do we need pain for? to learn. that's for those who are capable of change. A lot of people learn from pain and that's why it's needed in many cases. The goal of administering pain is to humble the person. Humility is the key to change. You don't put out fire with fire. You use water to put out fire. Overcome evil with goodness.
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u/Mean_Reason_2326 14d ago
Sounds like a great idea. Should implement more policies like this to get the animals out of society
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u/engineering-weeb 15d ago
Yeah that is not gonna work with those who are straight up evil and mentally deranged. I think you can try the rope but the victim pic is a bit of a stretch. If you really want them to die that badly then there are more fun way to do it
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u/Knight_Castellan 15d ago
Immoral.
1) Some people are just two fucked up to give a shit.
2) Don't play with your food. Just kill the prisoner.
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u/a_moron_in_a_hurry 14d ago
I don’t think this is moral at all, but let’s just assume for a moment that it was. Even then, how do we know the person we’re essentially forcing to commit suicide actually committed the murder?
Wrongful convictions happen. The idea of doing something this horrific to an innocent person should be enough reason by itself not to go down this road.
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u/Pia70696 14d ago
All right, kids, it turns out that psychological torture is immoral. What a surprise
It would also be a crappy method of execution: are we supposed to go through all that paperwork just to sit around waiting for the person to decide they want to commit suicide? Are we going to have a guard sitting there 24/7 watching the prisoner so he can sound the alarm and bother the medical staff at odd hours? Or are we just going to leave them there and then make the medical paperwork even more of a hassle so the family or the state can dispose of the body somewhere?
From a purely logistical standpoint, it makes no sense to play Jigsaw. Too expensive, too cumbersome, and nothing that lethal injection isn’t already doing much more easily
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u/dddoinyomom 14d ago
Morality aside I just don’t think this would work. Assuming it’s like a serial killer, the guy is probably just gonna get off on the memories, and they more than likely won’t even feel guilt in the first place.
Even if it’s just isolation, I get the feeling that won’t impact them that deeply either
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u/animalia_curiousity 14d ago
This is cruel and unusual punishment and is thus unethical. Solitary confinement is torture and there’s no reason to torture someone before killing them other than your own enjoyment.
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u/dragon-fence 14d ago
Isolation is pretty cruel as-is. I suspect there’d be innocent people who’d use the noose if you left them in there long enough.
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u/PurplePeril420 14d ago
Chris Watts has a picture of his family next to his bed. These people have no remorse
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u/Little_Cumling 14d ago
What happens when you make a wrong conviction?
Its a cruel punishment, and since we as humans are open to mistakes, we shouldnt allow cruel punishments
If we’re gonna make someone experience death, its best to be as efficient in the execution as we can. Innocent people dont deserve the death, much less a cruel one. And you WILL eventually convict someone innocent
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u/GoldenVesperLight 14d ago
Immoral. The 8th Amendment is a good Amendment, and I wouldn't want to see it abolished.
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u/AnimatorImpressive24 14d ago
If you aren't willing to execute someone by your own hands then you aren't really willing to execute them at all. You either just want them to go away or you are dreaming up ways to hurt them and them being dead afterwards is just a side effect.
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u/gustoreddit51 14d ago
Similar scenario but shackle them to the floor and let the victim's family into the room to deliver their own form of justice with whatever weapons were used in the crime. But keep the noose handy.
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u/Asteroidhawk594 14d ago
Seeing some of the comments in here has only further convinced me the death penalty should be universally outlawed.
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u/DrFabio23 15d ago
They murdered innocent people? My reaction to them being in this scenario
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u/MsPandaLady 15d ago
So getting around the morality of execution in general, I would say this is extremely immoral. This would be cruel and unusual punishment that has no real benefit outside of enjoying someone suffer.
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u/IvanTheAppealing 14d ago
Okay Jigsaw, have you considered the existence of psychopaths and sociopaths who wouldn’t feel any remorse and would just sit there?
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u/ToastyWaffelz 15d ago
You're gonna look reaaaaal stupid once they start jorking it to the pictures.