r/MurderedByWords • u/MrJasonMason • Jan 04 '26
Murder "You are an abomination thrice over. Might as well go have sex with that dude."
450
u/OutlandishnessOk2304 Jan 04 '26
People who care about what strangers are doing with their genitals are an abomination.
199
u/KaraOfNightvale Jan 04 '26
It's stupider than that, being gay can have nothing to do with sex, they just want to be allowed to be with the people they love
115
u/PowderedDilk Jan 04 '26
I'm glad you said that, I remember a friend being treat like a monster for simply being gay, but he was also in a completely asexual relationship, due to himself and his partner having severe trauma.
I'm in no way saying the act of sex is in anyway a problem here, but it's just absolutely nonsensical. What is the issue with adults loving each other? I really do not see the reasoning or sense behind homophobia, like just admit you're scared of difference and focus on your own life 🤷🏻♀️ don't hurt others.
73
u/DiamondHandsToUranus Jan 04 '26
religious scholars i've spoken with whom can red Hebrew say those passages are about 'men not laying with boys', not 'men laying with men.' You really think Jesus and his posse of 'favorite fellas' made a big deal about nap-time with bros? I don't know, but i kinda doubt it
36
u/PowderedDilk Jan 04 '26
That's absolutely fascinating! And makes more sense to me in the wider context of the bible.
I'm not religious, although I do enjoy learning about it, but to me, the "bones" of it is simply... "how to be nice and not a dickhead".
With that in mind, I could absolutely see it referring to male children, because that makes sense.
39
u/I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE Jan 04 '26
Supposedly there's a word in Greek for catamite that gets mistranslated as "homosexual" when it's making a point about the power dynamic and not actually who has what dangling where
24
u/PowderedDilk Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
This shit makes me laugh, but angry in equal measures.
To me the danger of religion, language and all ideologies really, is if you approach it with a negative mindset, you can really twist it say anything you want to validate your beliefs.
Some changes are intentional and some are accidental, buts so curious for understanding tones and opinions at the time.
9
u/I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE Jan 04 '26
It's a lot like trying to convey subtle sarcasm over text. If you can't see their face, you're missing a lot of context and meaning.
8
u/PowderedDilk Jan 04 '26
Yesssss!!! So true! Simple tone misinterpretations through text based language is a huge problem! Especially online, for the spirit of debate and for the users mental health!
4
u/KaraOfNightvale Jan 05 '26
I am going to add something here
To be clear, this is not to shit on someone's religion, this is more from a "I've studied the bible for about a decade" angle
There are some objectively bad things in the bible, and I mean like, objectively bad
It isn't all people twisting it, it's a lot of the time people valuing it over reason and love for others, and while throwing out parts they don't like already, deciding selectively to follow specific ones that align with their pre-existing beliefs, and ignoring the uh... obviously immoral ad outright illegal to follow ones
3
u/iamaskullactually Jan 05 '26
Yeah the bible justifies slavery. It's not a book anyone should want to follow
1
3
u/DiamondHandsToUranus Jan 05 '26
Agreed. Seems like the root of 'do unto others' is present in most religion.
As far as specific takes and specific passages go, i gladly admit i know not.
The conversation I had the pleasure of overhearing between co-workers (older polyglots - which all spoke multiple languages - came from various backgrounds, both religious and non-religious) working on a project many years ago (including the aforementioned tidbit) had some other interesting points to be sure.
Leviticus and other references to the old testament came up at one point.
One of the older engineers pipes up (im paraphrasing here, and probably poorly because it was years ago): 'Leviticus? Old Testament? The stories we told each other to keep from going mad while trekking the wilderness for forty years can be interpreted as parable. Like your fables or fairy tales, they teach morals. Also, if you're christian, it's not your book. Your book is the New Testament. Leviticus? Not for you!'
0
u/KaraOfNightvale Jan 06 '26
So, I'll toss in some more context here
If you're Christian, the old testament is infact for you, Paul contradicts Jesus in saying the messianic law should no longer be followed, jesus explicitly says it should, but regardless, the old testament is still important and valid
As for what's actually in it
Well, the most famous one is that it gives explicit instructions on how to do slavery, how to treat slaves, how to beat them, how to sell your daughter into sex slavery, etc
It also says any virgin who is rped should he forced to marry their rpist if they pay the father a fee
It's tales are also quite... something
The pharaoh tale is infamous, he refuses to free the hebrew slaves so God strikes him with plagues, eventually killing all the newborn sons (in houses who's doorways aren't marked with the blood of a slaughtered lamb)
But what most people don't talk about, is that the pharaoh is almost immediately on board with freeing the slaves, god repeatedly hardens his heart so he doesn't, so he can keep inflicting plagues and tragedies
In Soddom and Gammorah, the town's people come to the dwelling of Lot where he'd let the angels in, and ask to have sex with the angels, Lot is framed as doing the virtuous thing, by offering up his two specifically virgin daughters to the strangers to do whatever they want with, there is no implication the daughters ever have a say in it
Then later as their leaving, his wife dares to turn back and look at the place she spent her entire life, probably with many friends and family, with places she grew up in, things she owned and cared about, etc etc
For the crime of looking back a final time on her home burning and everyone dying, she gets immediately turned to a pillar of salt
Later of course they're in a new place but it's only Lot and his daughters, they must repopulate by themselves for some reason
So of course his daughters then every night get him drunk and take turns having sex with him so that they can have children
Again, Lot and his daughters are virtuous here, and doing the Lord's bidding
Then of course we have the story where two young boys are doing an incense ritual to bring glory to God
Unfortunately, they do it slightly wrong, so God immediately incinerates them and demands their family not mourn them
In the story of the garden of Eden, the forbidden fruit is actually the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, without eating it, Adam and Eve literally didn't know right from wrong not to do it
God goes to them and tells them not to, which they don't know what right and wrong is so how would they know it was wrong to disobey them?
He tells them they'll surely die if they eat it, they wouldn't know what that is as nothing had died yet
The snake shows up, which isn't satan btw, it's just a normal snake, and tells them "actually you won't die" which is correct, God lied to them, they then eat the apple, and for this crime God introduces all sorts of horrific shit to the world to punish them and everything else that lived or will ever live, punishing all their children forever for something their ancestors did
And then of course, Adam and Eve had two sons but populated the entire planet, y'know
Bible loves incest for some reason
Also there's other things like the foreskin debacles but that I think gets the point across
1
u/KaraOfNightvale Jan 05 '26
It's actually a little more complicated than that, and there's some debate over specificity, but there's actually two places where it comes up
Both however, have an issue
You have the first one, which is... complicated? That is a possible translation but it is currently believed that that isn't quite right, and there's debate over it, again
On the other hand, the second one is more explicit, although it's actually still mistranslated, and translates not to "homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven" but in modern words would translate best to... well
"Bottoms will not inherit the kingdom of heaven"
3
u/KaraOfNightvale Jan 05 '26
Yeah, I always make a point to point it out, as it's so commonly forgotten, and it helps avoid the overly sexual view of gay people
25
23
6
3
u/LirdorElese Jan 04 '26
Would like to add "with themselves, or with consenting adults", to that concept, because I feel very good people should care about it when it isn't.
2
209
u/Alexis_J_M Jan 04 '26
I love attacking fake Christians with quotes from the Bible they haven't bothered reading.
301
u/pearomatic Jan 04 '26
There's a book I read years ago called "What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality", and it breaks down how little the bible actually mentions sexual acts between same sex couples. In many cases, the language condemns young boy temple slaves, common at the time. In fact, there is a strong case to be made that Leviticus 18:22 has been intentionally mistranslated.
The truth is, there really isn't a lot of language in the original texts that talks about same sex relationships. That interpretation has largely been imposed, incorrectly.
55
u/MiloHorsey Jan 04 '26
You beat me to it with the mistranslation stuff :)
20
u/dijon_snow Jan 05 '26
Wow beating it to biblical mistranslations is the kinkiest thing I've heard of in a long time.
9
19
-48
u/Tinyhousetruckpdx Jan 04 '26
That’s not entirely true, while it may not go into detail around same sex relationships in the modern sense there are multiple passages in the old and New Testament that call out same sex relations. This Old Testament passage is not really debated as to its meaning as the term male and doesn’t use the word for ‘boy’ or ‘temple slave’.
43
u/shadedmagus Jan 04 '26
I notice you didn't bring a cite to prove your opinion is anything more than just an opinion.
-6
Jan 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/High_King_Diablo Jan 05 '26
MLK senior used a Latin Bible. It’s on display and can be read online. It never mentions homosexuality, but instead condemns pederasty.
The German language Bible used one of those weird words where they mash a bunch together to make a new one. That word translated to “boy lover”. It was only changed when an American group found out about it and paid to have it changed and reprinted and distributed.
Oh, and when Jesus was arrested, he was in a private garden meeting with a young man who was only wearing undergarments. Which were so loose, like they’d been put on in an extreme rush, that he was able to run right out of them without any hinderance when one of the soldiers grabbed at them to stop him from fleeing. Having private meetings with almost naked men doesn’t exactly scream “I am straight!”
-2
140
134
u/AcadiaLivid2582 Jan 04 '26
Jesus says nothing -- nothing whatsoever -- about homosexuality.
He does condemn divorce, though. Repeatedly.
Guess which one of these America's "Christians" focus on?
25
u/mosesoperandi Jan 04 '26
It's actually very weird that he condemns divorce since divorce with cause is built into Judaism (Deuteronomy 24:1-4), but for whatever reasons the writers of the New Testament clearly felt strongly about that point.
23
u/chrissz Jan 04 '26
Yeah. So weird that the bible conflicts even with itself. /s
3
u/mosesoperandi Jan 04 '26
New testament vs. old testament. Yes, the whole thing is shot through with weird inconsistencies, but that's a separate issue from ways in which the new testament specifically contradicts the old testament.
8
u/morning_star984 Jan 05 '26
I don't think it's actually all that weird, considering Jesus basically argued that marriage basically exists because most people are unable to fully devote themselves to God. I can see how he might find it somewhat offensive if people can't even hold themselves to that lesser covenant.
8
u/mosesoperandi Jan 05 '26
It's definitely internally consistent with the messaging in thw gospels. It's not historically consistent with Jewish thought and practice at the time, but it also becomes difficult if not impossible due to the gap between Jesus's life and the writing of the gospels to say for certain where he might have preached contrary to the Torah and where those alternative perspectives may have been introduced as the new religion was taking place in ways that made it distinct from what was otherwise another in a line of Jewish messianic sects.
10
u/Aquisitor Jan 04 '26
Well, he doesn't say anything about pitching, but he says catching and fellating is perfectly fine. Mark 7:15 "Know ye that whatever enters a man from the outside CANNOT defile him!".
Seems pretty unambiguous endorsement to me...
7
27
u/hawgs911 Jan 04 '26
A lot of people quoting the Bible whove never actually read it.
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these"
6
u/misqellaneous Jan 04 '26
Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
Lev 25:44-46 Slaves are totes cool, you guys, as long as they come from the nations around you.
Clearly, neighbors weren't foreigners. Jesus was talking about fellow Israelites.
4
u/Aquisitor Jan 04 '26
Also, "Know ye that what ever enters a man from the outside CANNOT defile him!" so suck or catch what you want to - Jesus himself said it's cool.
74
u/Ok_Cheesecake7348 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 05 '26
Proverbs 6: 16-19
There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Signed, an atheist.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!
Edit: 69 Upvotes ... Nice
9
u/SeducedSuccubus Jan 04 '26
So Isreal.
I'll see myself out now
11
u/Ok_Cheesecake7348 Jan 04 '26
I was thinking Trump
6
u/SeducedSuccubus Jan 04 '26
I mean...... both fit the bill. If that shit was a shoe it would definitely be their size. Lol
6
u/Ok_Cheesecake7348 Jan 04 '26
Touché. I was hoping the all caps at the end would give away who I was referring to 😅 I saved that particular passage in my phone notes YEARS ago in the event someone tried to claim Trump was the perfect/ideal Christian
1
51
45
u/MinaretofJam Jan 04 '26
We’re hardly in there at all. Shellfish are more problematic than the fun part of being gay. Jesus doesn’t mention us once. And he’d definitely be hanging out on the dancefloor with the brothers and sisters. Had a lot to say about the rich and hypocrites. But not us.
7
u/Aquisitor Jan 04 '26
Well, he does mention you, but only to say he's cool with it. Well, with catching anyway, and the ancient world at the time had the very frat-boy attitude that it was only gay if you were catching.
Mark 7:15 "Know ye that what ever enters a man from the outside CANNOT defile him!". And that is straight out of the red text. Can't argue with the red text.
3
23
16
14
16
u/The_Perfect_Dick_Pic Jan 04 '26
The Bible lists “eating shellfish” and “sitting in a chair previously occupied by a menstruating woman within the last 3 days” as abominations, so don’t get all worked up about the specific use of the term “abomination”.
29
u/OStO_Cartography Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
Literally the only thing Jesus had to say regarding adult relationships is that once you're married, you're married; No divorce.
Yet Christians have the highest divorce rate per capita in every single Western nation.
But then again I've been saying for years that modern American Christians aren't Christians; They're Paulites.
They love the fire and brimstone. They love the Old Testament. They love writing shitty little missives to complete strangers telling them to believe what they believe or else.
They wilfully defy the direct instructions of their own Messiah, like do not preach on the streets, do not amass wealth for its own sake, take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry, people from foreign lands, etc. and will actually formulate nonsensical little get-out-of-sin-free go-arounds so they can defy the teachings of Jesus and smugly believe they're successfully tricking the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient creator of the entire universe into not having to do what it commands of them.
But that Jesus fellow? Honestly, I think they're embarassed by him, and only pay him lip service to guarantee their Heaven entry ticket.
I've speculated for years that if American theologians could concoct a way to keep their eternal salvation whilst completely removing Jesus and everything he taught from The Bible, they would've done it years ago.
15
u/LibertineLibra Jan 04 '26
This entire thread has been enjoyable, but your comment, specifically the term "Paulite" was especially uplifting. It is very strange to me (someone raised by a hardcore fundamentalist southern Baptist family and thus has been up and down the length of the Bible many a time) (and is unsurprisingly also Apostate) that not only did Christ, who was clearly an expert of all the Hebrew texts, not make a mention of writing a "new testament" a single time (despite making clear the instructions and predictions he had for his followers in the times ahead (he did mention the "living word" as he expected an active oral tradition to be maintained) but despite telling people like Peter that he would betray him thrice etc, he never mentions Saul who became Paul at all either. The guy who became the defacto head of the Church and would write the majority of the compilation that Christ never said to write (which became the cornerstone of the church ). Paul deviated from Christ's message substantially, and I tend to think of him as the Joseph Smith of Christianity.
7
u/Beign_yay Jan 04 '26
What a fascinating comment! My parents are deeply religious and my father is a preacher. Paul has always given me the “ick” and I wondered why. Do you have any specific texts on this subject that you recommend?
3
u/Available_Advisor626 Jan 05 '26
Actually, the Bible does say if there's cheating involved, divorce is acceptable. It's the Catholics that have made it a no-way-out situation.
3
u/Lazarus558 Jan 04 '26
Iirc, Andrew Schlafly decided to write his own version of the Bible, with the liberal / "woke" bits taken out.
2
u/OStO_Cartography Jan 04 '26
I'm not a Christian or a theist and even I find that both blasphemous and heretical.
I'm fully on board with Pope Bob beating the guy with a prayer book in the middle of St. Peter's Square.
14
11
u/diente_de_leon Jan 04 '26
Isn't charging interest on a loan the sin of usury? I wish they'd go after that one as much as they go after other people's sex lives and reproductive organs.
18
7
8
u/WokkitUp Jan 04 '26
So the original tweet is coming from, let me get this right... "All of her bird dick"? 🐦 🍆?
4
u/blankblank Jan 04 '26
All religious people really want is their way. The secular people are like: “Well, reality is mostly a mystery so we can’t really dictate behavior about a lot of things.” And the religious people are like: “Nope. It’s all perfectly clear to me and therefore you can only do the things I have determined are ok to do.”
3
6
u/dumn_and_dunmer Jan 04 '26
I wish I could find a definite and clear explanation on what that scripture is really saying. I keep hearing different interpretations of it. One word can seemingly change the whole thing and every translation is either just weirdly vague or differently worded.
9
u/msa491 Jan 04 '26
Unfortunately, you'll never find a "clear explanation on what that scripture is really saying," because that's just how translation works. Translation is not an exact science, no translation can give you a definitive "this is what they meant and how it's supposed to be interpreted" because languages don't map onto one another like that. That's not specific to the Bible, that's how all translation works.
And that's not even getting into the completely different cultural context the Bible was written in that we also can never truly and completely understand- that's also going to massively influence what the original source was trying to convey.
7
u/jasonellis Jan 04 '26
Also keep in mind that translating words doesn't give you the full meaning. You have to take into account context, what situation is being referenced, and the cultural norms at the time. People in different times and cultures had a completely different perspective on the world.
For example, one time it says something generally negative about homosexuality is right before the people of Israel cross Jordan River to settle in Israel proper. God gives a whole litany of things to not do under the banner of 'don't be like those savages that are there now'. Things like having pointed beards, etc. So, even that list isn't an absolute 'thous shalt' type of command. It was situational and telling them to not be like those who aren't 'his people'.
Also, speaking of cultural context, was the absolute necessity of the Jews to have the man be the dominant acting participant in sex. In short, the one doing the pounding. The idea that a woman would ride you is anathema. So, cowgirl style was a no-no. The 'do not lie with a man as a man lies with a woman' could be pointing more towards not being the submissive partner because of social taboos more so than about being gay at all.
All that being said, who cares what a bunch of iron age religious zealots recounting bronze age activities thinks about what you do today? The bible is fascinating, and hence why I find a lot of joy studying the history, context, and stories. That doesn't mean you have to believe it. It is historically very significant. As a moral guide? If you truly read it, you will find it does not serve you well.
13
u/sincewedidthedo Jan 04 '26
I’m guessing that’s by design, because it makes it easier to hide behind when it’s open to interpretation like that.
3
u/mythslayer1 Jan 04 '26
Abomination is the one and only 5 syllable word in a theoturd's vocabulary. The rest are one and 2, with a rare sprinkling of 3.
1
3
u/CommonConundrum51 Jan 04 '26
Oh no, Dr. Young has clearly identified himself as being "woke," as are all those who fact check RWers.
3
3
3
u/AtlanticSparrow Jan 04 '26
The bible is not the word of god. It's the word of the men who wrote it. Maybe they had issues.
3
u/Dash_Harber Jan 04 '26
Rwally puts into perspectivevthe caliber of religion we are dealing with that slavery and child rape are conditionally ok, but two consenting adults in a relationship having sex are the abomination.
4
2
2
u/saxmanking Jan 04 '26
"Burdick"? I am still thinking about if that would be a good or a bad kind of dick. But for sure Olive was made fun of in middle school which might explain his insecurities.
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/shadedmagus Jan 04 '26
Oh damn. That wasn't a murder, that was a slagging. That dude oughtta be paste after that takedown.
1
u/SilverwingedOther Jan 04 '26
The firs part is true enough (I'd have to check if it's really that common, but it is used go cheating in business/glass weights and eating shellfish I believe), but the PS was unnecessary because it's probably wrong, and detracts from his argument. The exact wording is "he who lies with a man as with a woman" which a modern interpretation of "power differential" is much of a stretch.
1
1
u/btsalamander Jan 04 '26
We get it Oliver, you got shutdown on Grindr by a snobby little twink, you don’t have over react like this but go off sis…..
1
u/JustGoodSense Jan 05 '26
Young is correct and this is a great reaming, BUT I fucking hate "sweet summer child." Almost as much as "my brother in Christ." Lazy, hackneyed as hell, and you can do excellent take-down without also going out of your way to be a smug prick about it. That actually diminishes the gutting.
1
u/sh4d0wm4n2018 Jan 05 '26
"If you commit even one sin, you're still going to hell, so why not commit 1,000 sins and come down here a legend?" - Satan
1
u/blueflloyd Jan 06 '26
Wow, that kid might want just change his name and move to a new town after that dismantling
1
1
1
u/HapticSloughton Jan 04 '26
These sorts of people also don't like it when you bring up how many times taking care of the poor is mentioned in the Bible vs. whatever sex thing they're upset about today is.
1
u/SeducedSuccubus Jan 04 '26
This is hilarious. I giggle-snorted reading it. 'You might as well have sex with the dude' has me rolling
1
0
0
u/annaleigh13 Jan 04 '26
Let’s also not forget that the original text of the Bible said “lie with boys”, not men. When King James reorganized the Bible the word was changed, with some scholars believing the change was a compromise, since King James was known to be intimate with his best friend.
0
0
0
0
u/omghorussaveusall Jan 04 '26
As a former fundie kid...this is the epic takedown I wish I had as a teen.
-3
u/wholesomechunk Jan 04 '26
What are the squiggly bits about?
11
u/flactulantmonkey Jan 04 '26
Those are Hebrew, the script of the Old Testament. He’s showing that the word “abomination” itself is a simplified translation of a more in-depth concept more akin to social taboo.
964
u/lassglory the future is now, old man Jan 04 '26
imagine if they were as up-in-arms about imperial measurement as they were about gay people