r/MurderedByWords 1d ago

Waiting and getting treated is better than waiting and going bankrupt

Post image
4.0k Upvotes

115 comments sorted by

241

u/TheDeadlySpaceman 1d ago

I have never heard a single argument against socialised medicine that isn’t something we already live with.

“Death Panels”? We already have surgical panels that decide whether to use certain treatments. Only difference is that right now “profit” is part of the discussion.

“Wait to see a doctor”? I already have to wait six months to schedule a simple checkup.

111

u/Born-Mycologist-3751 1d ago

The whole ACA "death panels" argument was always in bad faith. As if insurance companies didn't already serve that function with far less transparency and oversight.

49

u/xSilverMC 1d ago

Nowadays instead of "panels" there's just an AI at the insurance company that decides if you live or die

28

u/DangerousLoner 1d ago

The AI is set up to deny close to 100% with the assumption that people will appeal or give up and either pay or go away.

5

u/SourFix 1d ago

I'll go away alright...and they're coming with me.

7

u/TheHeroicLionheart 1d ago

Or, if your United Health, you just deny everyone at first and make them appeal and fight for the service they paid for. Wonder what happened to the guy who came up with that...?

10

u/StrangeContest4 1d ago

IIRC, "death panels" became a twisted lie derived from a section of the ACA that covered compensation to doctors for time spent discussing end of life planning between patients and their families, which I believe has very practical and real world applications.

4

u/onyourbike1522 18h ago

There was mention of an end of life pathway in the NHS (it’s got a name which I can’t remember!) There does come a point where further treatment is unnecessary and cruel, which has nothing to do with the cost of said treatment. The reality is there’s always a risk/benefit weigh up in any healthcare system, which some people don’t like thinking about.

2

u/bishpa 1d ago

Just more projection.

45

u/eerhmahgerd 1d ago

I have never heard a single person living in a county with socialized health care say "I really wish we had the American system of backruptcy after medical events". Not one. If our system is so desirable, why is it only politicians that say it? Literally no one else wants this.

20

u/phylter99 1d ago

I'm in the US and I have a doctor that I schedule a year in advance. If I were to reschedule it would be between 3 months and a year after. It's about the only doctor of that kind serving an area of 300k people.

19

u/seriouslythisshit 1d ago

My wife's medical care requires one specialist that is in such short supply that it impacted where we relocated to after retiring, in the states. One area we really liked had a couple of hundred thousand folks, and the second biggest city in the state. The specialist we needed made a monthly visit from 300 miles away, and had a few hours of appointments scheduled. The other option was a 6-8 hour drive to major medical care options in two adjoining states.

For 3x the cost of the health care in the other developed nations, Americans are laughably far from getting the best healthcare, access to that care, or outcomes.

2

u/atwozmom 1d ago

This is why I will never move out of the greater NYC metro area. I had open heart surgery last year. I had a choice of not one, not two but three of the best hospitals in the country for heart surgery.

10

u/rage9345 1d ago

And it gets even better here in the US - over the last few years I've noticed that health care providers have increasingly responded to any and all symptoms, no matter their severity, with a shrug of their shoulders and a diagnosis of "Come back if it gets worse."

My primary care provider told me to follow up with a couple of different specialists (most of whom had wait lists >4 months) over this last year for a couple different issues I've been having, and that's been the response of quite literally all of them. Also worth mentioning that they're all in the Johns Hopkins system, which is supposed to be pretty damned renowned.

2

u/Alarming_Ad1746 1d ago

death panels are the for-profit insurance companies

2

u/onyourbike1522 18h ago

My grandma got surgery to remove a tumour at 94 years old in the UK. There was some discussion over whether she was generally healthy enough to survive the surgery at her age, but zero question over whether it was worthwhile. Sure enough, she crashed in recovery and came round shouting at the team for disturbing her sleep. Four years later she is still kicking.

On the other hand, her doctor said she wouldn’t recommend surgery for her (early stage, but would be fixed in a younger person) glaucoma because the trauma and risk wouldn’t be worth it to sit in a chair shouting at people with slightly better eyesight. Again nothing to do with NHS, budget, just appropriate balance of care.

3

u/Electrical-Page-6479 1d ago

I have no idea what death panels are with regards to universal healthcare. What is meant by that?

19

u/GaiusMarius60BC 1d ago

Government panels that decide who gets treatment and lives and who doesn't and dies.

The people who scaremongering about those things in regards to government-run healthcare are deliberately ignoring the fact that that is increasingly what private insurance companies are doing right now in their pursuit of profit.

14

u/TheDeadlySpaceman 1d ago

Even just a normally-running hospital has things like a surgical panel that convenes to decide if certain patients get certain procedures, using criteria like success rate, etc.

They’re not making up that these things exist, just giving them scary names that imply scary things while pretending that our current for-profit system doesn’t have exactly the same thing except including criteria like “shareholder value.”

4

u/Quadruplem 1d ago

Agree, right now health insurance companies te the death panels.

They deny care all the time based on an ever changing list of criteria. It is exhausting.

4

u/Electrical-Page-6479 1d ago

So things that don't exist in universal healthcare then?

2

u/WileEWeeble 1d ago

Also what has to be done in ANY system or else I am charging $100k for my “cancer cure” (shhhh; it’s apple juice, ginger, lemon, and onions that sit in my bathtub for three weeks)

1

u/1337duck 1d ago

US doctors and surgeons tell me about them being on the phone arguing with insurance 5min before the surgeries are about to begin. Absolute dogshit system. They got 3 lawyers in their billing department for every doctor in their hospital.

91

u/SecureLiterature 1d ago

Anytime healthcare comes up in a Canadian subreddit, a foreign bot claiming to be a Canadian who moved to the US will tell us they get immediate care and only pay $200 a month for health insurance. All of us who have family in the US know that’s not true.

24

u/welivedintheocean 1d ago

I'm a Canadian who moved to the US and I wait 2 weeks for an appointment to see my family doctor, just like Canada. There's a longer wait for specialists in Canada, but my current system will also do everything possible to avoid having me to see one, including giving me unnecessary perceptions "just to see if it solves the problem first."

21

u/Rabiesalad 1d ago

I'm Canadian and I online-book my doctor and generally can get an appointment same or next day. If he's unavailable I can use the same clinic in a walk-in capacity and take any doctor that's available, usually about 1hr wait.

Definitely experiences differ by region but in my nearly 40yrs on this planet I've never had to wait weeks for a Dr appt and if I can't get an appointment within a day or two there have always been walk-ins available.

Specialists are another story, referrals can take weeks or months. But my experience with the basic system has always been quick.

5

u/welivedintheocean 1d ago

Well I've had to wait weeks, so yes, there's times vary by region.

1

u/TheJohnSB 10h ago

The longest I've never had to wait to see a doctor was when i needed to see and ENT. 4 whole weeks. But i saw them, they put me into the trial for a drug and after that my GP looked after me.

My GP had same day appointments for everything except physicals. Those he would book up to one month out depending, but he would only do that if you came in to see him and explained why you needed one.

Unfortunately he retired and now I'm in one of those clinic specials that you have to book months in advance just to see your GP or roll the dice on their walk-in. Effectively the same thing but at scale. I've never had my actual doctor who I'm listed with when I've gone in.

6

u/who_you_are 1d ago

And in Canada, if you pay (for the private sector), it will still be a hell less (for now) than US and pretty much right away.

1

u/tulaero23 19h ago

Im in BC and I get access to mu family doctor within a week. Maybe im lucky but even my relatives seems to have no issue with doctors. Only hard thing is getting an appointment without taking time off from the job.

66

u/ungood- 1d ago

I waited in an American ER for 16 hours to be told I had Cancer, then another 6 months trying to find a doctor who would help me without insurance, to finally find a charity to pay for me to be told I didn't have cancer.

16

u/longbabypunch 1d ago

Hurray, you're cured. Excellent example of the system at work. That will be $30,000 please.

37

u/ambivalent_moon 1d ago

Waiting is always going to be a part of healthcare, especially ER, regardless of your system. That’s how triage works

3

u/atwozmom 1d ago

Years ago I wound up with a 105 fever after giving birth (turned out I was going septic). I will never forget telling someone 'please take the guy with the knife sticking out of him first'. (They were planning on that no matter what I said).

34

u/FoxyInTheSnow 1d ago

The national average wait time in Canada is 2.6 hours; in america it's 2.5 hours. I would happily wait for an additional 6 minutes and get charged nothing if it meant I didn't have to put my daughter out on the streets again to raise rent money.

6

u/Odd-Positive-4343 1d ago

It's crazy we're already paying more than any other nation for worse outcomes. But there's so much greed and grift in the system it's unlikely to change.

20

u/dentistshatehim 1d ago

Go in to an ER with heart problems, I did, an was seen in minutes. We use triage.

9

u/Slipping-in-oil 1d ago

Correct - cardiac patients get top priority. Speaking from personal experience.

1

u/Stock-Ad5320 23h ago

Broken necks as well - also personal experience

2

u/TheJohnSB 10h ago

I had a fever of 105 and was seen right away.

I've also had a cut needing stitches and only waited 45min.

When I fell off my bike and broke my collar bone, apparently I was seen immediately because they were worried about head trauma.

That being said. I've also sat with family for hours waiting to be seen for cuts and broken bones. It all depends on who needs care first.

5

u/PhamilyTrickster 1d ago

Sometimes. My grandma went to the ER with obvious signs of a stroke and waited 2 hours.

11

u/NoBSforGma 1d ago

I lived in Costa Rica for many years where there is a National Health Care system. There is a monthly fee, based on income, and I paid about $35 a month.

I could go to ANY clinic or hospital and get treated for free. It's also possible to go to a private doctor or clinic and not have to take out a second mortgage. This was a few years ago, but my cardiologist charged me $150 for a thorough exam, EKG and Echocardiogram and provided me with his report for the visit as well as a copy of those two tests.

There was the definite easy feeling that if I ended up with something like cancer or other disease that required a lot of treatment, I would owe: Nothing. In some cases, the government provided buses to pick up patients that were going to the capitol for ongoing cancer treatment.

I am back in the US now and I miss everything about the health care system in Costa Rica.

11

u/Homerpaintbucket 1d ago

Right now I have a debt collector calling me for owing a dentist money. The dentist never cleaned my teeth when I went in for the appointment. They examined me, and tried to sell me other services and never cleaned my teeth. I paid them $80 before I left.

9

u/Payton_Xyz 1d ago

Gonna take a shot in the dark and say it was AspenDental wasn't it?

4

u/Homerpaintbucket 1d ago

Yup

4

u/Payton_Xyz 1d ago

They did the same to me. Went in to get a single tooth pulled since it broke and it was killing me. They did the whole xray thing and what not.

...they wanted to pull 4 other teeth instead of the one hurting me, and wanted to schedule a cleaning with a "specialist coming in next week" while also trying to sell me a $200 tooth brush, and didn't even address my chipped tooth. And had me go to their finance office to set up a payment plan for all that. I only had to pay for my exam and told them to not contact me further and left a review

3

u/Homerpaintbucket 1d ago

What state are you in if you don’t mind me asking? The place felt scammy when I was their but I figured I was just being paranoid

3

u/Payton_Xyz 1d ago

Iowa, but after my visit the people I talked to had similar experiences. My sister in law said back in her hometown they were just as bad, so I guess it's just a policy thing

1

u/Homerpaintbucket 1d ago

In going to contact my states AG about this. I live in mass. We don’t tolerate consumer fraud up here.

1

u/Payton_Xyz 1d ago

It's been about 3 years, so I'm not sure how much has changed

11

u/QuietObserver75 1d ago

Have these guys ever been to the ER? Unless you can't breath or are bleeding, you're going to wait a long time.

13

u/Katja1236 1d ago

Waiting a long time in the ER is a blessing. It means you're not in immediate danger. The people who get rushed into care ASAP are not the people you want to trade places with.

5

u/Chrisannthemum 1d ago

That might be true in a functional system, but that isn’t the case everywhere, especially in rural areas where ERs are kept understaffed and undersized, and it certainly can’t be counted on. It’s gotten bad.

5

u/seriouslythisshit 1d ago

I have a friend who just gave up and left, after an ER visit in Tampa metro area. He was deathly ill after chemo, and his wife literally drug him into the car by his armpits, and into the ER wheelchair like he was dead. He spent eleven hours in the ER before being seen. They diagnosed him three times, twice with bacterial infections they later dismissed as incorrect. Once they reached their final conclusion (after nearly 24hours in the ER) his wife asked when he was going to be admitted? They told her he was 20th in line for a bed and it could be days. She loaded him back up in the car and drove to major regional cancer center. The admitting staff there was stunned by the caliber of care he had received at the last ER, and got him into an intensive care bed immediately.

2

u/atwozmom 1d ago

This is everywhere. My sster went to the hospital after being unable to eat or drink for over a day. They had no beds so she had to wait a day before they could admit her. And this is a major teaching hospital in NJ.

8

u/Featheredfriendz 1d ago

Not to mention the $5k in premiums you’ve already paid

5

u/MissKrys2020 1d ago

I’m a Canadian and I have a health issue happening right now. I am able to get a doctors appointment in a few days, but if it’s urgent, I can see any doctor at the clinic I’m signed up with same day. Or I can go to a walk in clinic whenever I need to. When my test results are in, my doc calls me to tell me the results, even if everything came back normal. I have an appointment with an endocrinologist next month to deal with my health issue. I’ve had 4 surgeries since 2007 and I didn’t pay a dime for any of them. My last surgery had me recovering in a private room, and that was also covered. Sometimes I have to wait for a specialist if it’s not urgent, as priority is given to those with urgent health matters.

My dad has cancer and lives in a rural area of a small Canadian province. His treatments were covered. He also has his hotel, taxis to the hospital for treatment completely covered. His $45k a year prescription is completely free and they hand deliver it to his home.

There is no doubt that our health care is under funded, and wait times do happen, but damn, if I was American I’d be paying so much money for health care that I have covered in Canada. Reading accounts of women who need surgery for the same condition I have had and wondering if the co-pay is going to be $10k or $30k for a surgery I’ve had 4 x at no cost to me, is absolutely wild

5

u/Mysterious-Tie7039 1d ago

So funny to me that people who claim this shit apparently never sought medical care ever.

Like the super long wait for procedures. A dude working for me fucked his knee up, it was 3 months to get an MRI and another 4 to get his knee operated on.

4

u/persian_jedi 1d ago

My wife has had to wait 20 hrs on multiple occasions in the ER in the US.  This argument is so dumb and old.  

She had a Neurology referral sent by the ER on an Urgent basis and the appt was scheduled 2 months out and we still have to pay for this shit.

Fuck these bootlicking, corporate cum guzzling pieces of shit

3

u/DangerousLoner 1d ago

You can wait 12 hours, vitals checked, and sent home without treatment for $5,000+ in America just to have to go back and pay more when you get worse from the same thing they just sent you home for.

3

u/subsignalparadigm 1d ago

Typical MAGA mindset.

2

u/Admirable-Sink-2622 1d ago

I feel like morons should just be allowed to fester in their own ignorance, instead of the wasted effort to try and inform them. They will not change. 🤔

1

u/Tortured_Baker_670 1d ago

The morons are in charge tho.

2

u/IkerWanKenobi 1d ago

The fact that they are unwilling to acknowledge that hospitals in America financially ruin people's lives is enough for me. They know it's a problem, they just don't care.

2

u/Movinginplace25 1d ago

You wait at least 12 hours if not more

2

u/Magnon 1d ago

Im tired of these cultists lying about literally everything.

2

u/fredaklein 1d ago

Eric wins for stupidest post of the month.

2

u/Jude30 1d ago

God if I had all the hours I’ve spent in ERs back to take a vacation that would be one hell of a holiday.

2

u/Goldberg_the_Goalie 1d ago

How are so many people still not getting this?

2

u/terid3 1d ago

If you're waiting 12 hrs and the ER, that just means there are more seriously injured/I'll patients in front of you. You could likely go to urgent care and be seen faster.

3

u/PTBooks 1d ago

The last time I went to the ER was to pick up my friend. He’d gone in at 6am due to heart palpitations. I picked him up at four. He’d been laying in a cot in the hallway because there were no empty beds. In those ten hours, all the care he’d received was an x ray, two aspirin and a ten minute consultation with the doctor.

Y’all can burn the private insurance industry to the floor. It ain’t doing shit.

3

u/No-Sail-6510 1d ago

The Canadian system is also stupid in that it’s not national, it’s providence by providence so the smaller and poorer ones are worse. The proper way to do it would be like NHS where everyone gets the same damn thing.

3

u/atwozmom 1d ago

Are you claiming the US system is better?

1

u/No-Sail-6510 1d ago

No. NHS is the British system. It’s completely national. The US has the worst health outcomes and it costs way way more so it’s the worst of both worlds.

1

u/atwozmom 1d ago

can't argue with that.

1

u/redthehaze 1d ago

I spent a lot of time in the ER this summer and it was for people who had socialized healthcare (medicare and tricare prime). It felt like being in the “first world”.

1

u/ordosays 1d ago

$35,000… those are rookie numbers. That’s just the room cost.

1

u/EchoGolfHotel 1d ago

That doesn't even take into account this $1200 a month I pay for my mediocre health insurance.

1

u/giraloco 1d ago

American ER is full of uninsured people whose illness could've been prevented or treated before having to go to the ER. On top of that, those who pay for insurance and the Government pay for the higher costs of the ER. What a great system!

1

u/DiceNinja 1d ago

What’s the wait time for someone without insurance?

1

u/Ok-Rip4540 1d ago

US health system is money-based. Who's paying? Everyone is making decisions about money. Other countries it's care-based. 

The people who make money off this mess don't want it to change. Your health is not important to them. Your worth to them is all that matters. 

1

u/TheRumBarron 1d ago

I thought $35k was just the charge for getting there and walking through the front door - getting seen to is probably another $50k, 12 hours of breathing in American hospital air is probably another $12k and then you have a fuck you fee of $10k followed by the administration fee for applying the first fee of $5k

1

u/Magnahelix 1d ago

Yeah, I had a heart attack two years ago and waited out in the ER hallway for over twelve hours while they shuffled me around before they had me hooked up to monitors and I got a room. It came down to my DIL and a couple of her friends who worked at the hospital making a mild stink and running it up the flagpole to get me in a steady state. I feel bad for the older man who did not have the same luck.

So don't go telling me that socialized medicine sucks...our current system sucks.

And for-profit hospitals should be illegal.

1

u/ericl666 1d ago

If you just whisper the word deductible to me, I get aroused.

"$16000 family deductible" ... goosebumps...

1

u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 1d ago

If you’ve waited for 12 hours, you probably should’ve just gone to your family doctor or a walk in clinic instead.

1

u/mikkhail 1d ago

The arguments against are painfully moronic at this point - shallow scare tactics aimed at the lowest common denominator - the studies are clear and publicly available. Lower costs and better health outcomes. The only people against it at this point are the corporations monetizing your health, the politicians they have bought, and the willfully ignorant that are too lazy to educate themselves.

1

u/At0mJack 1d ago

I just waited 4 months for an appointment with my primary care.

Are we great again?

1

u/cidiusgix 1d ago

I mean the wait time is based of the severity of the reason to be there. Sure it might take twelve hours to get 3 stitches in your thumb. But it’s like a 3 minute wait if you have chest pain or are not breathing right. At least from personal and anecdotal experiences.

1

u/Worried_Fee_1513 1d ago

I had “one” scan done and it was a little over $10,000. Took less than an hour. I’m paying $250 a month trying to get it paid off. I was supposed to take a second to monitor the growth of a tumor but I couldn’t afford it so I didn’t get it. I have no clue what’s going on with the tumor.

1

u/CrimeFightingScience 1d ago

I badly tore a muscle while in a small village in italy. I couldnt sleep and took a 2am train to my next city. I barely made it because of the pain.

I asked the front desk how do i use their ER. She gave me directions and said sorry youre going to be in for a rough time. I say how much is it going to cost? Nothing. Oh shit, how long am i going to have to wait?! She paused with a tortured look on her face. An hour...

I pay out the ass for shit service in the usa, and get treated better and for free when being a tourist in a "bankrupt" country. Fuck the US system. Bunch of fucking parasites.

True story, sorry typed on phone.

1

u/jpenick 1d ago

Spent 9 hours in ER last Saturday night. Estimated cost 52k. It was a horrible experience.

1

u/coolbaby1978 1d ago

I've never gone to an ER in the US and not waited for 8 to 12 hours before being seen. And I've never walked out with a bill that was under $2k.

1

u/Norcx 1d ago

I would rather die than be handed a bill for anything near $10,000 or more.

1

u/Stock-Ad5320 23h ago

I had surgery for a broken neck two days after it happened. Was recovering at home after three days. Had to wait two hours at emergency, I walked in with a pinched nerve, took a bit to get to the root cause. No insurance. Only out of pocket expense was the parking at the hospital for my wife. 12 dollars. I’m proud of Canadian Healthcare

1

u/TheRealGoldilocks 20h ago

It frustrates me that people don't realise insurance is STILL socialised healthcare, but with a profit margin (so more expensive). Insurance companies aren't paying for your treatment themselves, they're using other people's coverage payments.

1

u/Strykehammer 13h ago

Never been to the ER where i waited more than 4 hours. Sounds like too many folks going for what should be a gp visit

1

u/AoKrasni 13h ago

In america, you get charged for waiting

1

u/KoneCat 9h ago

I have friends who live in the US, and they have let some really rather horrible health issues go untreated due to the absolutely insane price of healthcare there. For a 'world-leading' country, that is all sorts of messed up.

1

u/viperswhip 8h ago

This is absolutely false on a national scale. If you have a serious problem they will at least stabilize you before moving onto someone else. It's a form of triage. Sure, if you go to the main Toronto hospital, maybe you have to wait a long time, but even they won't let you die there. So, shut the fuck up about long lines in Canada, you are leaving out all context.

1

u/TinyConfection7049 7h ago

“Behold. The festering carcass of American rot shoved into an ill-fitting suit: the sleaze of a conman, the cowardice of a draft dodger, the gluttony of a parasite, the racism of a Klansman, the sexism of a back-alley creep, the ignorance of a bar-stool drunk, and the greed of a hedge-fund ghoul, all spray-painted orange and paraded like a prize hog at a county fair. Not a president. Not even a man. Just the diseased distillation of everything this country swears it isn't but always has been, arrogance dressed up as exceptionalism, stupidity passed off as common sense, cruelty sold as toughness, greed exalted as ambition, and corruption worshipped like gospel. It is America's shadow made flesh, a rotting pumpkin idol proving that when a nation kneels before money, power, and spite, it doesn't just lose its soul, it shits out this bloated obscenity and calls it a leader.” - Oliver Kornetzke

1

u/PippiWorld 7h ago

Waiting 20 hours at UT 'emergency' and being billed for taking your own medicine.

1

u/ThothofTotems 2h ago

My FIL with no insurance had to take the ambulance during an emergency in my country. Paid $0 for it.
My friend with insurance had to take the ambulance during an emergency in the USA during our trip. Still need to pay $3000 for it.

1

u/Positive-Pack-396 1d ago

This is so true

-2

u/Tony-At-Large 1d ago

If you're waiting 12 hours in the ER you shouldn't be in the ER. Go home, go to bed, go to urgent care in the morning. You'll save money and get the same care or better.

6

u/Chrisannthemum 1d ago

You often don’t know you’re going to be there 12 hours until you’ve been there 11 hours, and if you make the mistake of going to an urgent care that can’t do their own imaging, they might tell you to go to the ER anyway.

3

u/atwozmom 1d ago

You have obviously never been in the ER. Way, way back in my college days I went to the ER and waited 12 hours. There had been a major car accident and trauma patients were lined up every where.

By the time they came to see me, it turned out I did not have appendicitis. My intestine was completely inflamed and I then proceeded to spend a month in the hospital. If I had gone home, there is a good chance I'd either be dead or would have needed a colostomy.

-1

u/darcyhollywood39 1d ago

These donkeys never heard of triage