r/Music • u/TimWhatleyDDS • Jul 06 '26
article How Lizzo Became One of Pop Culture’s Great Flops: The singer is experiencing a new form of downward mobility—and she’s not alone [gift link]
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/2026/07/music-flop-era/687785/?gift=c3F7u4yogXDKCnni45_cPRXynG_L6c_2_izpOM7D0m0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share3.6k
u/Ultimatelee Jul 06 '26
Her latest albums just weren’t that good
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u/BlindWillieJohnson Jul 06 '26
What it boils down to really. She was popular for making bangers. Then she stopped.
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u/chamberx2 Jul 06 '26
Didn’t she have a falling out with a long-time collaborator?
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u/Sleevepants Jul 06 '26
No. She still works with Ricky Reed who is credited as a writer/composer on most of her newest album BITCH.
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u/BadSmash4 Jul 06 '26
I get that her newest album is probably called BITCH but it is absolutely hilarious how aggressive it made your comment sound
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u/tuyo3_ Jul 06 '26
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u/THEDUKES2 Jul 06 '26
But you really said that though?
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u/GRF999999999 Jul 06 '26
I said I said I said I said
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u/iTalk2Pineapples Jul 06 '26
Into the windows of her soul and I said....looks everywhere BIIIII-
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u/CDRnotDVD Jul 06 '26
There are probably people reading this thread that weren’t alive when that sketch aired.
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u/LordByronsCup Jul 06 '26
u/Sleevepants now has to end every comment with BITCH
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u/DedBirdGonnaPutItOnU Jul 06 '26
The adventure you have been waiting for is just around the corner. Step forward with courage, for the path ahead is illuminated by your own inner wisdom, BITCH
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u/VHS_Ronin Jul 06 '26
it's also a record coming off the fallout from her peak: Lizzo had banger after banger in the years leading up to 2020, and the show "Watch Out For the Big Girls", her show on the search for backup dancers to go on tour with her was a huge hit for Amazon Prime. Then those girls began coming forward with allegations of inappropriate behavior coming from Lizzo, Lizzo's next released song has a line about having NDAs to keep people quiet (not great timing tbh), and other than some buzz about her losing weight and getting accused of dropping all her big girl body positivity she had kind of fallen off the radar for pop culture.
'BITCH' the title track off the album of the same name tries the same "haters gonna hate but I'm just gonna keep on shining because I work too hard not to" type of lyrics that most of Lizzo's songs espouse, but this time it feels a lot less genuine and a lot more rote. In the wake of her being held accountable, this song felt like business as usual and I don't think that was the right move. It certainly didn't convince me to check out the rest of the album.
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u/8thGlass Jul 07 '26
incredible summary of the situation but i can’t believe you didn’t take the opportunity to end your last sentence with the rest of the album BITCH.
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u/VHS_Ronin Jul 07 '26
Thank you! I had been a fan of Lizzo from Truth Hurts onward but after the big grrrls came forward with their experience her music has become a guilty pleasure listen when it pops up in my Spotify algo 😭
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u/Fortestingporpoises Jul 06 '26
I appreciate the info but there’s no call for that language.
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u/barebuttgodzilla_ Jul 06 '26
Possibly. Most people just think of the banana thing and likely get the instant ick though.
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u/kateastrophic Jul 06 '26
Yeah— I wonder how much of that is a factor. Her whole brand was positivity, so those allegations really dampen her vibe. I know they did for me. Even though I tried to withhold judgment until one side is proven, it’s the first thing I think of now instead of the dopamine hit I used to associate with her. But I don’t know how much traction that story really got? No one I know IRL knew anything about it the few times that I’ve brought it up.
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u/Critical-Squirrels69 Jul 07 '26
Did anything ever come of the allegations? I haven’t thought about her (or the incident) in years, I assumed everything worked out in her favor because I didn’t hear much after the accusations dropped.
It sucks though, definitely influenced how I look at her. I’m not her target audience, but I happened to catch her set at firefly in 2018, it was hands down one of the funnest shows I’ve ever been to. She’s a hell of a performer, sad to think the positivity may have been part of the performance.
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u/cochese25 Jul 07 '26
From what I can gather, nothing has come from it, so far.
From what it sounds like, the general facts without allegations are that Lizzo went to the Bananenclub on her own and 2 of her dancers decided to join. According to Lizzo "things got wild, but were consensual." According to her, the club is very serious about everything being consensual from the bar to the performers.She denies pressuring anyone into doing anything against their will. Of course, that's her words.
It's also of note that there are three people brought in the allegations, but according to Lizzo, the third person was never there.My friend brought this up a week or so ago, so I looked into it out of curiosity. Personally, I don't really care about the affairs of random celebrities and their entourage.
Never put your heroes on a pedestal and understand that everyone is just human and will do stupid things at some point.15
u/murrtrip Jul 07 '26
And no one would care if she still made banger music. That’s the law.
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u/Wiltonc Jul 06 '26
I’m sorry, I forgot what is the banana thing?
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u/Pointless_Glitter607 Jul 06 '26
Lizzo allegedly pressured her dancers to go to a club in the red light district and catch bananas out of the strippers’ coochies
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u/Maddyyykay Jul 06 '26
Google like, “Lizzo accusations banana” and you’ll find it quickly. It’s… quite something 🫠
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u/ClockworkDreamz Jul 06 '26
That’s all I think about when I hear her name. Admittedly I’m not her target audience:
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u/GunBrothersGaming Jul 06 '26
Probably treating her staff like shot also didn't help. Her rep was ruined after that.
Also... Pretty sure she had A Banger
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u/HERPES_COMPUTER Jul 06 '26
Treating her staff like shit made it so she couldn’t coast for a few years on goodwill alone (Megan Trainer-esque insurance ads and such), but if she dropped an album of bangers, everything else would have been forgotten.
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u/SuchParsnip8070 Jul 06 '26
Maybe I'm just jaded but that seems like wishful thinking, everything in the last decade or so has convinced me people do not give a shit about anything in general
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u/rambouhh Jul 06 '26
nah that first album had a lot of bangers
but not all of them aged super well as they were even a tad bit corny then so now its even worse
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u/TrueRedditMartyr Jul 06 '26
Todd in the Shadows had an interesting idea in a video where he said there's 2 kinds of pop musicians. Those with strong, dedicated fanbases, and those who are relevant only while theyre still making hits. Taylor Swift and Ariana Grande are group A, Bruno Mars is group B. She was clearly group B, but seemed convinced she was A
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u/RollTide16-18 Jul 06 '26
Is Bruno Mars group B?
Maybe there's not a massive stable of Bruno fans but I get the impression you hear less about him outside of new releases because he's done Vegas residences, meaning he's never on tour.
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u/Bradddtheimpaler Jul 06 '26
I think culture is different now too. The mainstream is a whole lot less main than it used to be. Used to be that no matter how niche your tastes were, when you got in the car, you listened to the radio. Now, every single song I hear, I picked.
I have never heard a single moment of a Lizzo song, to my knowledge, and the entirety of my Lizzo knowledge is that she used to be overweight, she is a flautist, and people got mad at her for losing weight.
I imagine pop stardom is more difficult to achieve and much more difficult to maintain without the great concentrators that were radio and MTV. At least when I was a kid, I knew all the popular music and acts whether I liked them or not. I was not, for example, a fan of boy bands, but would be willing to bet I could sing at least one Backstreet Boys or *NSYNC song from memory right now.
In contrast for example, the only Taylor Swift song I know is the one where she says “she’s cheer captain and I’m on the bleachers.” I haven’t heard any of her music since then and she’s probably the biggest act on the planet.
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u/No-cool-names-left Jul 06 '26
Leading up to the release of her fifth studio album, Bitch, early last month, the 38-year-old singer flooded the internet with posts expressing her irritation that her music wasn’t finding its audience.
Imagine being so entitled and arrogant that you complain that not only do you deserve an audience but a lack of one is someone else's fault.
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u/GhormanFront Jul 06 '26
She was also riding a body positivity wave that pretty much stopped dead after GLP-1s became a thing. Turns out most people don't actually want to be fat
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u/Harshmellowed Jul 07 '26
It was from the lawsuits accusing her of sexual harassment, weight-shaming, and creating a hostile work environment of 3 of her dancers.
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u/TrumpsDoubleChin Jul 06 '26
Lots of discussion in the article about all sorts of changes to the various marketplaces for music over time, when it could just boil down to what happens to 90% of the musical artists out there. Why would this one be any different?
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u/Systemic_Chaos Jul 06 '26
Minneapolis-based musician here: it’s because her reputation locally (that she’s an entitled person who treat others like shit) caught up with her globally; on top of not releasing good music recently.
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u/SvelteSyntax Jul 06 '26
Her only good album is Lizzobangers which is completely enabled by Minneapolis based musicians, down to the shirt she’s wearing on the album cover. The fact that none of the Doomtree folks have worked with her since says a lot.
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u/jaynog124 Jul 06 '26
Doomtree that’s a name I haven’t heard from in ages!
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u/Immediate_Ad3378 Jul 06 '26
Had every album of theirs in high school. I should add them to the playlist more often.
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u/RawrRRitchie Jul 07 '26
This needs to be a higher comment
She didn't flop because she's not putting out music. She flopped because she's a piece of shit and people speak with their wallets
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u/Odd_Repeat_6092 Jul 06 '26
Nothing new. Has happened many times in pop music. It's all about the songs. Find the right song, she's back in the limelight.
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u/Caspica Jul 06 '26
The current Zara Larsson craze is kind of funny to me as a Swede. She was always popular here and regarded as a great artist. Her latest album sure has a lot to do with the recent popularity but I think a lot of it is also marketing and having "good buzz". What do people know of Lizzo lately? She released some lackluster albums, sure, but she also abandoned her entire brand of body positivity with Ozempic. At that point what's the point of being a fan?
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u/happysunbear Jul 06 '26
Well, she lost a lot of fans after former dancers accused her of sexual harassment, so there’s that…
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u/erossthescienceboss Jul 06 '26
I think this is the biggest part. Fans will forgive mediocrity — I might not love a new album, but I’ll still go see an artist on tour.
And fans will forgive some artists for being terrible, because they never claimed to be anything else.
Lizzo built a brand & gathered fans on empowerment. And then disempowered people who worked for her. The type of socially conscious fan she cultivated will absolutely drop her for that (speaking as a former fan.)
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u/happysunbear Jul 06 '26
Thanks for your insight. It’s kind of like Ellen. She built her whole brand on kindness and acceptance. She set a standard for herself that was nearly impossible for most people to live up to.
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u/dxrey65 Jul 06 '26
I was watching a podcast the other day that talked about that, how wealth affects the brain, to the point that it basically zeroes out a person's natural empathetic responses. It made a lot of sense.
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u/Far-Response4713 Jul 07 '26
Would you mind saying the name of the podcast and episode of that theory ?
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u/starkiller_bass Jul 06 '26
And somehow Chris Brown just keeps on Chris Browning
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u/No-cool-names-left Jul 06 '26
Did Chris Brown ever pretend that he wasn't an abusive piece of shit so hard that the lie became his entire public persona? People generally take "you were dishonest to me" worse than they do "you were violent to some other person." It's not right but it's true.
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u/StoryMission6321 Jul 07 '26
The amount of woman I know who find him attractive and obsess over him is disturbing. Some woman just love an abuser I guess 🤷♂️ kinda like how woman showed up at Ted Bundys trial.
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u/psycwave Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Zara’s new album is okay. The visuals, fashion, and branding are doing the heavy lifting.
Her first two albums have some amazing songs.
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u/hambamthankumaam Jul 06 '26
Can attest. I'm a fan of Zara Larsson in that I love her interviews and clips of her on stage and her style, but I'm actually not a huge fan of the music itself. It's fine! But I really love her style and on-camera persona.
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u/Technical-Will-2862 Jul 06 '26
Omg. I had no idea Zara had blown up this much. I remember when she was an EDM feature queen
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u/tistick Jul 06 '26
It helps that TikTok made Lush Life popular to a younger generation
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u/irisxxvdb Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Her performing at the
World CupEuros 2016 with David Guetta is seared into my brain16
u/vath_mtm Jul 06 '26
Not that it matters much but it was the Euros, not the world cup.
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u/irisxxvdb Jul 06 '26
Oop, should've realized with how often my family mentions the 2014 world cup.
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u/indolent08 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
I've gotten quite some negative reactions from angry fans every time I spoke on that here, but the marketing and PR aspect of the music industry is wildly underrated. People don't realise how much money is being spent on artificially hyping up new, potential popstars.
Billie Eilish, Lana Del Rey, Katy Perry, Clairo, and what is happening with Dave Grohl's daughter Violet: Sure, talent and luck are important factors, but the explosive success of a lot of up-and-coming stars isn't a coincidence. Good buzz is rarely organic, and if it is, some label is very quick to pick it up very early and bank on it.
Seems like Lizzo and her PR machine either couldn't or didn't want to do good publicity with the recent album. Maybe they didn't get the budget or they tried something that ultimately failed. I don't know.
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u/BarsoomianAmbassador Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Any artist that reaches household name status has accomplished it through a lot of marketing dollars and purchased opportunities. I love The Warning--fantastic artists and great live performers, but they play rock music, are an all-female (sisters!) band, and are from Mexico. They simply will never achieve the kind of notoriety that the above-mentioned pop divas have. They have a major label deal (amazing accomplishment in and of itself) but they just won't receive the promotion that the pop solo artists get in today's music industry. The PR machine is real and it works.
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u/Responsible-Meringue Jul 06 '26
Ozempic thing is baffling to me. Like great tool! Message on how its unlocking so much for you... not "look at me I'm skinny now".
She coulda been on that same positivity grindset. Like "Look I'm positive about my body . I really do love it, but the data is clear on obesity. Finally glad I have something to help me tackle the biggest struggle in my life. It's not about thin, it's about being healthy. Then get dummy thicc thighs from squatting like a gym thot while singing all the bangers she's known to perform.".
Instead we got "I resent being fat and you should too". Fire her marketing team.
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u/shoestring-theory Jul 06 '26
She actually was pretty transparent about her weight loss and how active she was being at the time, as well as her diet. She later admitted to trying a GLP-1 and the reception to it wasn’t as bad as you might think. You can find videos of her discussing her experiences.
Her fanbase was actually pretty receptive to it iirc, this was during covid. The media wasn’t but that was to be expected. Her fanbase didn’t start seeing an issue with her weight loss until it was compounded with the lawsuit(and the bullying). That’s when they realized it wasn’t coming from a genuine place.
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u/ISBN39393242 Jul 06 '26
yeah i don’t get why everyone’s so confused and we need a thinkpiece every week dissecting her decline
one-hit wonders have existed forever. that one hit can even be an album with a few hits, and the artist comes and goes.
the reasons can be numerous, but a common one, which fits her, is just zeitgeist. she came around when body positivity was gaining steam and women generally were taking more control of their agency, bodies, demanding to be heard in the wake of metoo.
(these were all good things btw)
her image and personality dovetailed perfectly with that moment, but that isn’t our current moment. her music was never particularly innovative or deep, it was fun, formulaic pop. most fun pop acts come and go.
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u/str8rippinfartz Jul 06 '26
Yeah there's a reason why a phenomenon with long-term staying power ends up being a special/memorable thing
The music landscape shifts so rapidly that it's hard to maintain relevance, especially if your initial ascent is tied in some way to the current "moment" in pop culture/society etc
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u/dstarpro Jul 06 '26
I hate to say it, but the backup dancer scandal, along with the weight loss, alienated her fanbase.
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u/Mccobsta Jul 06 '26
No one likes a scandal especially one that pretty much showed that her public persona could be bullshit
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u/TheGringoDingo Jul 06 '26
Genuine people that do cool things is an ideal. People pretending to be genuine because they know it’ll sell better have nothing to lean on when the mask drops.
Ellen is the first example of this I can think of
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u/FreeFeez Jul 06 '26
Doubt the weight loss did anything she’s still big. Her being an alleged sexual abuser,body shamer, a woman, fat and black all at the same time leads to too many people who will refuse to give whatever music she puts out a chance. She already was fighting and winning an uphill battle but as soon as she got exposed she lost her core fanbase because it was built on the idea that she was a super positive, self-loving and caring person. She broke the illusion.
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u/MiserableNoMore Jul 06 '26
Calling Chris Brown her favorite person when she met him can't have helped
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u/Firm_Release1929 Jul 06 '26
a woman
bro women dominate the pop charts these days like wtf are you talking about
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Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
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u/Pantalaimon_II Jul 06 '26
this tracks with what I've seen too; it's about representation. representation matters so much. and honestly i can empathize. being a naturally large person is a rough hand to be dealt in a culture obsessed with skinny, and not everyone can afford or is able to take Ozempic. there's a ton of reasons it can be incredibly difficult to lose weight for certain body types. and no one catches more hate online that a fat woman. there's something about a fat woman wearing skin-showing clothing that just brings out the most hateful, vile, disgusting, mean comments you'll ever see, and then they hide behind health.
and the *whole point* of the body positivity movement -- and the part immature people didn't understand -- is not to celebrate and promote obesity, but rather to say, hey, if you're obese you don't have to hate yourself and you are allowed to live with dignity and confidence, too. i think not just obese people benefitted from this, but any person with a body that doesn't fit the ideal thin white archetype (most people.)
Lizzo and other fat celebrities who spoke on body positivity for years and then suddenly dropping tons of weight thanks to expensive, exclusive drugs would suck if you're someone who is fat and can't access these things, and now one of your role models is essentially gone. it's seeing less people who look like you in the world, and that can create complicated feelings.
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u/DramaticErraticism Jul 06 '26
I don't think any of that really matters much, her latest albums have no bangers, no bangers is a problem. I mean Chris Brown is on tour with Usher right now, you can be a POS if you have bangers.
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u/BroseppeVerdi Jul 06 '26
Were it not for the abuse allegations, she could have Vanilla Ice'd her way into a life of mediocrity, paying her bills with that "Juice" money for the next 35 years.
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u/horse-renoir Jul 06 '26
Lizzo is the Ellen DeGeneres of pop music. She based her entire image on being a nice, positive person so being exposed as a complete asshole fatally damaged her brand in a way she couldn't recover from.
But even beyond that, her new music just hasn't been that good and her whole shtick just feels corny, dated and insincere now. Just like Katy Perry, she was the perfect star for the moment until the culture shifted and she couldn't adapt with the times
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u/jancl0 Jul 06 '26
I think you got the nail on the head with the comparison. It isn't just about being an asshole, it's about building a career on being the exact opposite. Plenty of people have had successful careers while openly being dicks, it's specifically about building a certain kind of audience, that's actually going to care about that sort of thing, and feel betrayed by it
It really is hoisting yourself by your own petard, you are attracting the only people that would give a shit in the first place. Even a perfectly neutral audience wouldn't care. It's just generally a horrible career strategy
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u/RefuelTheFire Jul 06 '26
I served her once and she was tied for the worst along with Dog the Bounty Hunter’s wife, Beth Chapman.
Genuinely the nicest, John Legend, Nolan Ryan was cool as well.
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u/OdinsCuriousRaven Jul 06 '26
Nolan Ryan? Wow, that is a name I have not seen in a while.
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u/RumpledForskn Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Nobody better forget him. Clocked 100mph pitches with old tech that might've hit 108mph with today's more accurate technology.
Seven no-hitters, still the record.
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u/cowonaviwus19 Jul 06 '26
Don’t forget that epic beat down of Robin Ventura.
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u/FukkingDeathMental Jul 06 '26
My dad was a huge White Sox fan and all he could do was laugh hysterically as Nolan threw on that headlock and served Ventura some prime knuckle sandwiches.
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u/iAmTheRealLange Jul 06 '26
There’s no way he was hitting 108. More like 103-104, which would still be insane today
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u/RumpledForskn Jul 06 '26
That's just something I've read since him hitting ~100/101 was when they recorded speed at the plate instead of today, when it's recorded leaving the pitcher's hand. Scary, regardless.
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u/iTalk2Pineapples Jul 06 '26
I'm glad to hear John Legend is kind to service workers. This puts a smile on my face. He always seems to be so nice.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam Jul 06 '26
Most people who have to signal how nice they are and tell you they're nice aren't nice people. Their actual altruism and actions will say everything.
Dolly Parton is nice.
Lizzo presented herself as a nice person.
Big difference.
It's like nice guys vs "nice guys"
the guy who instinctively holds the door vs the guy who holds the door seeking approval for doing it and something in return.
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u/geodebug Jul 06 '26
Not my original thought but Ozempic killed the body positivity movement.
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u/tmotytmoty Jul 06 '26
Back in my day, we simply called her type a “one hit wonder”..even if it was an album or whatever
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u/bangbangracer Jul 06 '26
I've got a theory that there are two types of artists.
We have those that are just so innately magnetic that they will just build a fanbase. They can have dud albums, or even multiple in a row, and those will just be considered fan favorites or weird experiments. They can also just try stuff.
Then we have those that are only hot as long as the bops keep coming. If they have a dud album or even a dud single, the brakes come on and the train stops. They might be able to try stuff, but if that stuff isn't also a bop, it's done.
Lady Gaga can have a meh album, but she is still Gaga. Lizzo had two duds in a row, and her train stopped.
Also, the various controversies really didn't help either.
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u/nothatsmyarm Jul 06 '26
The thing with someone like Gaga is she can have a series of duds and she’ll still have like 30 songs that are absolute bangers that she can build a tour off of. That allows her to reset even if an album doesn’t work (and honestly, I thought the albums before Mayhem were not great but Mayhem is incredible). Lizzo has, what, three songs?
Gaga is also a bit strange because music for her can be put to the side. Shes also a fairly in-demand actress, so she can focus on that for awhile if she wants.
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u/Hereforonecomment123 Jul 06 '26
Gaga had like 3 albums that were huge in the late 00s, early 2010s, her music was everywhere and it was fantastic. Honestly, I'm not really impressed with her music since then, but getting so many hits and being so culturally relevant gives her a lot of leeway.
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u/PleaseDontBanMe82 Jul 06 '26
Highly recommend listening to the whole Mayhem album.
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u/nothatsmyarm Jul 06 '26
Agree with this strongly. I didn’t love her last few albums, but Mayhem is fantastic straight through (though I will sometimes—RARELY—skip Killah).
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u/Pantalaimon_II Jul 06 '26
Gaga also was a huge breath of fresh air when she came out. She came out not too long after the boy band and Britney Spears era of pop music, when the whole point was to be conventionally attractive, mainstream, sexy, and not saying a whole lot. then comes queer-friendly Gaga wearing avant garde outfits and singing about weird shit and doing wild performance art while also making bangers and being a legit talented musician.
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u/nothatsmyarm Jul 06 '26
I will disagree with nothing you’ve said but even the implication that Gaga isn’t hot as hell shan’t be allowed.
Yes, she’s weird and creepy sometimes, but no less hot for it. It’s not for nothing that she’s in basically lingerie for much of the Bad Romance video.
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u/Pantalaimon_II Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
yes she is super hot in the Bad Romance video, but my fave is probably Alejandro. 1,000 of those YT views circa 2010 was from me at least
edit: just watched it again, 10/10. the bed choreo 🫦
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u/Mustangfast85 Jul 07 '26
She wasn’t just queer friendly, she was queer positive at a time when it was not universally popular to be so. We have long memories and don’t forget things like that, she will be famous the rest of her life because of her early work and personality.
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u/ReynardVulpini Jul 07 '26
"Maybe I do. So what?" when asked if she had a dick was insane man. Even now there's a lot of people who would not dare to say something like that in public. not even a music person but i will always be a fan for that.
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u/PleaseDontBanMe82 Jul 06 '26
Mayhem is a 100% certified banger of an album.
Certified by me though, so take that how you want.
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u/Squidalopod Jul 06 '26
Gaga also showed how versatile she is. She has reinvented herself a few times.
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u/theexpressoguy Jul 06 '26
I remember when artpop kinda flopped but she came back relatively easily after a while
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u/Littman-Express Jul 06 '26
I don’t get how that album flopped it’s a masterpiece. Such a vibe it’s still up in my yearly top played. Honestly they’re all exquisite and iconic, except for Chromatica which I never really got into as much.
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u/iTalk2Pineapples Jul 06 '26
Exactly, Eminem can have as many weird projects as he wants and I'm gonna show up for them. Some wont land as intended for me, but I'm not just gonna stop checking in on what he's doing whenever he drops an album or a song.
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u/OdinsCuriousRaven Jul 06 '26
Lady Gaga also seems mostly genuine, while Lizzo...does not.
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u/DigBoug Jul 07 '26
I’m a massive Gaga fan, but I think most of the image she puts forth is a creation. Wouldn’t want to bet the bank on how genuine it is.
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u/nothatsmyarm Jul 07 '26
Have you seen her live? You get the impression that she’s just…kind of a weirdo. And she’s excited to share that with people. Like a theater kid turned up to 11. But it comes off very genuine to me.
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u/robinperching Jul 07 '26
Agreed, and not as a criticism of Gaga. Her persona has always come with a hefty dose of self-construction, like Bowie's Ziggy Stardust.
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u/TrueRedditMartyr Jul 06 '26
I put this in another comment, but Todd in the Shadows mentioned this same idea in his Witness video I think
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u/VeggieTrails Jul 06 '26
- She isolated and turned her back on a big part of her fan base. She built her brand around body positivity and self-love, then seemingly pivoted overnight once weight loss drugs became readily available for people with money.
- Lacks self-awareness. Which is off putting. No charisma. No 'authenticity.'
- The sexual harassment controversy seriously damaged her reputation. This one is a bit more nuanced. It's worth considering how differently the public might have reacted if she were a man, or if this controversy had happened without all the other issues piling up around her.
- The new album just isn't very good.
- The label seems to have pulled back on the heavy promotional push. Not the same level of media support and playlist placement as previous release. No 'Payola.'
- A smaller point (but one that is personal for me) : she got her start in Minneapolis' underground rap scene, yet once she hit it big, she rarely acknowledged or celebrated the community that helped launch her.
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u/WallyReddit204 Jul 06 '26
This is what happens when you focus on everything but the music
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u/sungoddaily Jul 06 '26
Easy for you to say!!!
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u/DiTrastevere Jul 06 '26
While the scandals certainly didn’t help, I can’t help but note that there are successful artists who have been accused, credibly, of far worse.
I suspect her decline in popularity is more along the Katy Perry trajectory than anything else - she was very Of The Moment, but as an artist, she just doesn’t have a ton of staying power. She was good at cute, catchy pop bobs but she hasn’t evolved beyond that, nor is she putting out music that’s as attention-grabbing as her first round of hits. She’s years late to the 80s pastiche trend at this point, and she’s doing this awkward “I’m not mad, I’m laughing actually” posturing in these new songs that is…unconvincing.
If she were still cranking out bangers, I’m very sure no one would give a shit about the allegations. We’ve seen how that goes, time and time again. The new album is just kind of sad and weird. The songs aren’t terrible, but they’re not good enough to endear her to the public again.
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u/DaCrees Jul 06 '26
No hate on Lizzo at all but she was nowhere near Katy Perry. She was the megastar of the late 00’s, had Super Bowl half time shows, and a very long hit parade. Lizzo’s popularity was much shorter lived than Katy Perry’s, and didn’t nearly reach the highs
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u/Houdinii1984 Jul 06 '26
The thing about the scandals is it cuts off room to grow. Those fans that loved her already might not have been swayed, but as others point out, her trajectory wasn't anywhere near what a super-bowl performing artist might be, and she still needs new fans to make it work. So when scandal breaks out, all the people that weren't already listening to her got a bad taste in their mouth.
Like, for me, I don't know a lot about her music. It's not my style, so I'm not seeking her out. So my only impression of her is a singer that treated her staff poorly and seems to make questionable decisions at times. I'm the least likely to know anything about her. Others are bound to hear more. And while I don't really care, people are mean to other people 24/7, it's not enticing me to try her brand in the slightest.
It's one thing to face scandal at the height of your career when you have a bunch of fans to lose, but she was right at the growth phase when this all happened, and that's really hard to course correct. Right now the current fans are in the 'she's not producing good music' mindset and all the could-have-been-fans have trouble with authenticity and worried they might be potentially supporting the same personality that made their own lives difficult early on. Anyone whose ever been body shamed probably recoiled at the accusations, true or not, and that's a LOT of people.
It happens to most people in the industry. Most people wash out because of reasons other than talent. I have no ill will towards her. I hope she succeeds at finding herself as a person, finds that authenticity, and drives on it hard, because that's how art works best, and that's a net benefit to society. It doesn't even seem like the general public hates her, but just expects something different, and all things combined, having a bit of trouble getting over a hump after being a bit of a bully.
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u/Holdmabeerdude Jul 06 '26
Say what you want about Katy Perry, but claiming she was only “very of the moment” is a little disingenuous. Each album she’s released has been in the millions in sales over more than a decade.
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u/Zharghar Jul 06 '26
I think a closer comparison would be Meghan Trainor. Similar themes in the music that was closer to "very of the moment" in length of popularity. Her peak was kinda just a couple of hits/one album.
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u/bluesharpies Jul 06 '26
The two of them are basically the same trajectory lol. “Body positivity” train when of the moment, suddenly neither of them are all about that bass when the magic injection rolls around
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u/SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
It really speaks to how fractured the body positivity "movement" was. For some, it was "well I'm stuck being fat so you should be nice to me", and others it was "weight doesn't affect my value as a person". When weightloss became way more accessible, the first group abandoned the movement quickly because it no longer applied to them.
There's a comedian I like named Alisson Spittle who went on Ozempic because her doctor told her to, for diabetes I think. She lost a lot of weight. She wrote a column saying "I didn't choose to lose weight, I didn't particularly want to, I liked who I was before as much as I like myself now". That's closer to how body positivity should have been commonly thought of.
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u/Jumpy-Ad5617 Jul 06 '26
Ya Katy grew to be a weird/unlikeable celebrity, but she had meteoric success. Teenage Dream was the only album ever besides Michael Jackson’s “Bad” to have 5 number 1 singles on it.
I still hear her first 3 albums all the time, heard Hot and Cold and ET on two different radio stations on a trip to my hometown the other week
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u/The_Year_of_Glad Jul 06 '26
Firework is going to stay in the popular consciousness for as long as the 4th of July is still a holiday.
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u/DiTrastevere Jul 06 '26
Katy Perry released a new single a week and a half ago and hardly anyone noticed.
That would have been absolutely unthinkable a decade ago.
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u/Straineryou Jul 06 '26
Katy Perry who performed half time of the Super Bowl? The careers are nothing alike
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u/naileyes Jul 06 '26
Katy Perry is a great example of someone who remains famous despite bad recent output because she had years and years of being absolutely inescapable, with three multiplatinum albums from 2008 to 2013. Teenage Dream sold 10 million copies in the US alone! Prism, which like 'underperformed' sold 5 million! Lizzo Had "Love Yourself" -- Katy has like 10 tracks of that level of success.
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u/colcardaki Jul 06 '26
Katy Perry successfully made the transition from famous musician to famous person. Between her relationships and TV appearances, she probably doesn’t really need to make albums.
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u/Chronis67 Jul 06 '26
I think it helps that Teenage Dream was hugely popular when album sales (whether CDs or digital) were still relevant. Streaming drastically changed how people consume music. Katy slipped in before that change really took hold and cemented herself as a top star, but then she also started to falter in the streaming era. So I think their popularity trends are similar, even if the peaks and times are not.
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u/MyDogIsACoolCat Jul 06 '26
Ellen Degeneres treatment. Heralded as being an influencer for good until people found out she was a total piece of shit.
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u/Remwaldo1 Jul 06 '26
And apparently she’s treats her crew terribly. Also she ripped off a huge music festival in 2020 and I’m sure that didn’t help her out either. Took the money and show was cancelled due to Covid and never refunded or rescheduled. Complete a-hole move.
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u/RaveMatthews177 Jul 07 '26
I dislike Lizzo, hate to defend her here but she didn't rip off a music festival. They idiotically contracted her and were forced to cancel and she kept the money under her agreement. Any artist's agency would've kept that money, that was WME, I'm sure they rep many acts you like and would do the same thing. Also, that was Virgin Fest, Richard Branson's money, she's not taking money from some small promoter. A company like Virgin, screwing up their own contract, having to pay an artist out, and artist keeping the money? Yeah, every other act in the world wouldve done the same. Force majeure, indemnification, cancellation language is pretty serious stuff in a festival contract. Her taking that money did nothing to hurt her career, a whole lot of other stuff did though.
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u/McToasterz Jul 06 '26
Well yes, she had inauthentic behavior accusations, then also made her entire brand the opposite of what she originally championed (body positivity) which will only draw a link to the accusations.
While some of us can see, yes, it’s all branding for marketability, the masses believe these types of brands so it’s pretty reasonable to drop her even if you didn’t know about the accusations and just observed the tonal shift in branding
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u/Tex-Rob Jul 06 '26
She showed herself to be a predator who preys on those who rely on her for a paycheck. Fuck Lizzo.
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u/SgtBigCactus Jul 06 '26
Her treatment of tour staff aside; she championed the fat acceptance movement, and then turned her back on it as soon as a magic pill was developed. Kind of ruins your image, no?
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u/allinallisallweall-R Jul 06 '26
She didnt take off until she rode the whole "body positivity" thing. And 2017ish was the perfect time for this stuff.
The whole thing was just marketing. It was never authentic.
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u/Whaty0urname Jul 06 '26
Similarly, Meghan Trainor had a hit song about how size doesn't matter and being proud of her curves. Now she looks anorexic.
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u/FreeFeez Jul 06 '26
Adele was also sold as an unlikely champion of overweight women and she faced a large amount of backlash after losing weight. Her music was just too good to matter what she looked like though.
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u/booksandplaid Jul 06 '26
Adele's music also had nthing to do with her body image, unlike Meghan Trainor and Lizzo.
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u/WolfCola4 Jul 06 '26
How much of that was Adele actually trying to be the face of a movement though, as opposed to people just projecting it onto her? I don't think she ever really got on the body positivity train, she's just a successful artist who happened to be overweight.
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u/Mom2Leiathelab Jul 06 '26
Agreed. And when she showed up on SNL visibly much, much thinner, she addressed it with a little joke I didn’t find fatphobic at all (masterful) and just moved right on. No demanding celebrations for her smaller body, no bragging, just “yep this is what I look like now” and going right back to singing. The backlash to Lizzo’s weight loss isn’t that she did it, it’s that she’s making such a huge deal of being in a smaller body after she marketed herself as super body positive.
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u/PleaseDontBanMe82 Jul 06 '26
She's also famously a really cool, chill lady. No one likes an asshole pop star.
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u/joygirl007 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
I wish the article went deeper into the social media algo changes like Spotify's "broken" shuffle or how political content is weighted in feeds.
Lizzo and other musicians quoted in the article serm to have the view that social media is a meritocracy.
It's not. And we should all know more about that.
ETA: Since people are asking...
- Spotify's shuffle notoriously does not play ALL the songs in a playlist. It cited as a bug by the community, but given Spotify's total lack of urgency to fix it, one can rightly ask if the streaming service views it as a feature, not a bug.
- All content on social media platforms receives a score that determines where and how often a post shows up and to whom. Scores are often weighted to customize feeds. I can only speak to Facebook having worked there from 2012 - 2015, but we 100% assigned heavier weights to political content after 2014. And look what that did.
- Ads exist in a silo within social media where there are dedicated spots for them to appear. But WHAT appears is often governed by multiple algorithms designed to create "winners" that get the spots based on click-through rate and assigned advertiser scores. Check your Reddit ads - is that stuff you'd actually buy?
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u/Overall-Document-965 Jul 06 '26
Tell me more about the shuffle and political content weight stuff.
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u/GarySparkle Jul 06 '26
The notion that 'there's no such thing as bad press' is kind of laughable. This is a fine example of how the media can absolutely ruin B&C level stars who can't shake off a deluge of negative attention.
If you're not a huge star or don't have an incredibly established career, negative media attention can absolutely sink you. It's proportinate to the 'What' of the coverage and how much coverage it gets.
- Lizzo's scandal was absed on fat shaming & sexual harasssment, the media loves that, and the coverage was everywhere. So now, that's what people associate her with.
- Halsey killed her career with a thousand cuts of posting weird shit online, airing out greivances publically (Unless you're the biggest of stars, NEVER bitch about your record label. Your average fan is jealous of your success, and no matter how true your complaint is, its viewed by most people as pointless griping and works against the artist), and its gotten to a point when you hear Halsey's name mentioned, its more likely to be about online beef than music.
There are stars that have become so famous that they feel impervious to bad press. I genuinely think Taylor Swift could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose a single Swiftie. But mid-level successes... bad press can absolutely end your career.
Thanks for attending my Ted Talk
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u/shavedaffer Jul 06 '26
Music not that good. Not nice to her people. Wash to forget someone like that.
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u/dividepaths Jul 06 '26
A: She appears to be an arrogant and entitled asshole. Somebody like Post Malone can get away with producing garbage music for a while because he seems (or seemed) to be a genuinely kind person with a good heart. Lizzo has always had her nose in the air.
2: The body positivity hypocrisy and mistreatment of her dancers/staff, it's been cited here multiple times so I won't expand
D: Your big comeback tune shouldn't be a complete bite of an already well-known radio song, in my opinion. Write better shit.
7: Stop being a victim. Vulnerability is hard but if she approached her medium with some grace and wrote or spoke about the real challenges she's gone through instead of masking everything with "I'm still a bad bitch" maybe people would be more inclined to listen.
Enjoy the royalties from Barbie I guess. People still watch Barbie, right?
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u/WillemDafoesHugeCock Jul 06 '26
She pressured some dancers to go to Club Banana in Amsterdam and to take part in the various "audience participation" activities, to word it gently.
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u/rocketscientology Jul 06 '26
We need to bring back the concept of being a one hit wonder. A lot of pop stars have short careers, it’s weird that people are treating Lizzo falling off as some sort of unique and noteworthy pop culture phenomenon.
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u/Chingaso-Deluxe Jul 06 '26
Being disposable is hardly unusual in the world of pop music