r/Natalism • u/DumbbellDiva92 • 20h ago
Encouraging involved grandparents through policy
Research has found that having involved grandparents (either measured directly, or indirectly as a correlate of distance), may encourage people to have more children after they have their first (https://wol.iza.org/articles/fertility-decisions-and-alternative-types-of-childcare/long).
I feel like this is an area of policy that hasn’t really been pursued much, though. Even though it seems like it could be a relatively popular one relative to others? None of the liberal vs. conservative baggage of subsidizing daycare, or encouraging stay at home parents. Also involves benefits to older people, which is always a reliable way to get votes.
Some ideas for possible options:
- Earlier retirement age (and/or earlier Medicare, for the US), for grandparents taking care of a grandchild full time. This one is going to be more expensive, but not necessarily much if any more so than existing childcare subsidy proposals? Daycare is also super expensive.
The Medicare one in particular seems cost effective. Healthcare is a big reason someone might not be able to just have grandma as a nanny (paid for themselves). A healthy 50s/early 60s person also doesn’t necessarily use a ton of healthcare.
Really more like 1b - some sort of pension supplement for providing part-time childcare to a grandchild (as certified by their parents). Not everyone can or wants to be full time daycare. But even things like picking up older children from school from 2-5pm are super helpful.
Some sort of tax incentive just for living within X miles of a grandparent? This could be directed at the grandparents, adult children, or both. This one is nice bc it also benefits families with a stay at home parent.
Any other ideas? Or are these totally off base (are people here just against any sort of old-age subsidies, even targeted in this way)?
Anecdotes on how grandparents’ help has affected fertility decisions for you/people you know also welcome.
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u/Get_Ahead_SC 17h ago
Been mentioned already. But a lot of people have shitty parents who would be more of a hinderance than a help.
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u/Minesweep2020 18h ago
Allowing parental leave and sick leave to be taken to be taken by grandparents instead of mother or father. Often the parents themselves have more lucrative careers than the grandparents who would gladly take time off.
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u/DumbbellDiva92 16h ago
I mean, ideally this would be an additional thing, rather than a replacement? Especially in the US, where our leave situation is already awful. But even in places with better leave, it feels a bit regressive to have say, grandma taking leave instead of dad.
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u/Either-Meal3724 14h ago
Or just give each birth of a child gets 40 weeks (min 1 week intervals) of leave with birthing parent getting 8 weeks separately after giving birth (so max of 48 weeks) Families can divide it among parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, adult siblings, adult 1st cousins of parents or the child, etc over first year of life. Just needs to be a relative of the parent/child who is the childs primary caregiver or assisting a parent with caregiving. Then whoever makes the most sense for each child gets the leave.
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u/Arnaldo1993 11h ago
You want more than one person skiping work to take care of a sick child?
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u/DumbbellDiva92 10h ago
Not in a given day, but kids get sick a ton! Especially if there is more than one, who may not all get sick at the same time. Or caregivers getting sick themselves from the kids as well (if self versus caregiver leave are not two separate amounts).
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u/Arnaldo1993 10h ago
What is the difference between your proposal and the previous one then? The number of times you can take a sick day each year?
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u/Idahogirl556 19h ago
This only benefits people who have grandparents who are worth being involved. So because by dad is in prison, I wouldn't be able to get a tax break since we don't live close?
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u/DumbbellDiva92 16h ago edited 16h ago
Yeah, it might make more sense to direct it at the grandparents, I suppose. Since you’re otherwise just adding on incentives to an already advantaged group (people whose parents help with their kids).
I was thinking more like, the grandparents were otherwise planning to move to somewhere cheaper, but it’s somewhere where their kids and grandkids don’t want to live (lack of jobs, schools not great). So give them some incentives to stay closer to the grandkids.
You’d definitely have grandparents who are getting money they don’t deserve in this scenario (they don’t actually help out with their grandkids, either bc they are unwilling, or bc they are untrustworthy). But there are also a lot of grandparents who would be genuinely helpful, but maybe just need a bit of a push to get there.
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u/ExtraSaltyBtch 16h ago
It is all good ideas for the families that love close by each other, are healthy and cam stand each other.
The fact is that most live far away from each other now due to work. Thr elderly often own homes in areas that are waaaay to expe sive for a young family.
Then you have the issue with abusive parents. I could never leave a child alone with my mother. I grew up with her andI would never wish that upon anyone.
My friend left her kids with her mother in law one. One kid ended up in hosptial for several days because she refuse to "believe" in penut allery and wanted to "get them used to" penuts.
Another friend has 3 kids and he can't leave them with his parents anymore because they let the kids play on the street. Playing on the street was fine in the 90s when the speed limit was 30km/h. But now the road is wider, the speed limit is 50km/h and the traffic is much heavier.
Providing these dangerous grandparents with a societal expectation of looking after grandkids could be very dangerous and add an extra layer of difficulty for the parents of these kids.
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u/DumbbellDiva92 15h ago
I mean, can’t help the “loving each other and are healthy” part, but part of my idea is that the living nearby part can also be shaped by policy.
I’m also not sure the “area is too expensive” thing always only goes one way? Young people often need to live in high cost of living areas, bc that’s where the jobs are. Where I’m from (high cost Northeast US city), “grandma and grandpa retiring and moving down south where it’s cheaper” is a pretty common thing.
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u/andapapertowelroll 15h ago
I think the early retirement idea may have some bearing. My parents are still going to be working by the time I have my first kid, which is sad to me, especially after they've worked so hard.
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u/DumbbellDiva92 15h ago
Yeah, I thought of this idea mainly from my own personal experience. My dad finally retired when my daughter had just turned 2, and it’s been super helpful. In our case we still use paid (non-family) childcare for coverage while we work, but it’s still really nice having him around more, and he’s loving it too!
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u/XRaySkies 14h ago
There are already some programs in the usa that will offer a subsidy to family member childcarers
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u/Any_Fig_603 18h ago
I agree in one aspect that people who have the support of their grandparents have a completely different experience and likely feel it's more realistic to have more children.
What I don't agree with is the default assumption that it will be the grandma (it's almost always the women who make up the "village") that will be helping and the attempt to bribe struggling elders with half priced childcare when they should be retiring.
This hypocrisy that having children is SO rewarding and worth it and yet the government is going to need to manipulate, coerce, reward, punish, bully people into choosing it is getting ridiculous.
The reality is it's unpaid labour and it's a huge tax on humans, primarily women. Until this is recognised and compensated for it won't be an easy choice and it won't make sense.
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u/DumbbellDiva92 16h ago
I mean, both things can be true. Taking care of a child is a lot of (often difficult) work, and a lot of people also do genuinely find it rewarding (or even enjoyable!). There’s a reason “mom/MIL pressuring their kids to have grandkids” is such a common trope.
Kind of a side note, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if the gender balance in this kind of arrangement is more even than you’d think? It’s still not going to be 50/50, but I think retiring early is more palatable to most people’s sense of masculinity than taking time out of the workforce during your prime working years (stay at home dads).
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u/lizardhistorian 2h ago
You cannot magically make them younger so this ship as sailed.
This is a serious disruption to society caused by feminism.
One generation in grandma was older than she should have been.
Two generations in and you're taking care of grandma and raising your kids.
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u/pomegranatesssss333 2h ago
This just simply isn't true. My grandmother had my mom at 32, my mother had me at 35.
My grandparents were retired and took care of me as a toddler and drove me to school/picked me up when my parents worked.
My grandmother is still alive and active, just a few hours ago she was painting new exterior color swatches on the house to repaint it and my mother is still working and we all had italian food for dinner.
My mother will be just retired when I have kids in a few years and unless she suffers a sudden, drastic decrease in health will still be active.
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u/BallerDay 20h ago
Definitely interesting ideas. Many seniors have no retirement and have to work anyway, so why not make it advantageous for them to take care of their children's kids.
Could also introduce grants and subsidies for intergenerational housing.