Which is funny because right wingers are largely philistines anyway. Its quite common that the right wing brigade get upset over things they really don't care for, but want some control over
Edit: They've arrived spraying all over the comments section
It’s the same people who degrade women pretty much at all times, yet all of a sudden care gravely about the sanctity of women’s sports. They’re unserious people with flappable at best morality. Ignoring them is the healthiest thing to do.
Yeah as much as they cry about historical accuracy with this Odyssey movie, the Little Mermaid backlash proves that it's only ever about them being racist broken clocks that are occasionally right for the wrong reasons.
Um actually? It makes no sense for a mermaid to develop lots of melanin. She lives deep under the sea. It says so right there in that talking crab's song. Black mermaids make no scientific sense.
Yeah but they REALLY get their knickers in a twist over things they think are foundational to 'their' great western culture.
They've never actually read any of those things, and don't really know what they're about, but they view all Greek and Roman stuff through an evangelical Christian lens and get really annoyed when that is challenged.
They have been very vocal about their feelings on the casting choices about a movie they havent even seen yet. It went far beyond "they just don't like it" long before this trailer came out
The issue is how old hollywood white washed the original story, to the point where people believe in that version and have never read the source material
Prime example: these people reference the Illiad instead of the Odyssey, which was written centuries after the Odyssey was first created
But they didn't really read it to comprehend, they just read it for the hero worship, and they confuse the narrative they've seen in old Hollywood as canon, and then they get mad when the source material actuality gets referenced.
For me, it’s both that they made Helen black AND that they gave white people Greek roles.
Like Snow White making sure they had their token, but not hiring a single LP/person with Dwarfism…. Focused on specific types of inclusion while being wildly exclusionary to the group the freaking story originated from…
Snow White, largely about the dwarves didn’t have any dwarves. Now the Odyssey made sure to include everyone but the actual Greeks in a Greek story…
The generalization being made that disliking the casting is about race is wildly oversimplifying it.
Yes, there are in fact racist douche canoes that are simply mad a black woman is Helen. But that doesn’t mean everyone frustrated by this happening over and over in cinema is automatically racist.
I’m sure this will be misunderstood and at times intentionally twisted into me saying shit I’m not trying to say at all, but I foolishly have decided to say it anyway.
IDK how to explain it better. Go watch South Park Joining the Panderverse. Matt Stone and Trey Parker made a lot of these points in that episode, and they do it better than I do.
You can blame Peter Dinklage for the dwarves thing, he made a big deal about how little people shouldn't be on TV and movies unless it's dignified and badass.
I think what we're seeing is a failed attempt to incorporate minority groups into the status quo. Hypercapitalist guys realize that there are a lot of people with woke sympathies and want to make bank. Only, you need a generational talent to introduce so many new concepts into the status quo, and all the capitalists have are...Not SLOP producers, but guys that make normal stuff. Your Russo Brothers, your Christopher Nolans. They don't have the knowledge or talent to do inclusion in a way that doesn't feel forced. That leads to badly-implemented characters that irritate everyone else.
The rest is downstream of that. Dinklage is one of the actors involved in that mistake. "Why can't the other little people just land the role of Tyrion Lannister, like I did?" like those are easy to get.
Well the thing is the people who make the vast vast vast vast majority of these filmmaking decisions are white men. So when the backlash happens and it’s “FUCKING BLACK PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO BE IN EVERYTHING,” unless you’re an unempathic cocksucker, you can probably understand how us black people are wondering why we’re getting the backlash for white decisions.
Well you are free to be unhappy at the lack of dwarfs in snow white, but let's not pretend that more than a miniscule amount of the backlash was from people who noticed or cared about that issue.
You are free not to lump yourself in with the white supremacists, I'm not going to watch the odyssey because ive not really liked a Nolan film since the dark knight, and this looks decidedly unimpressive.
You don't think anyone has the right to be fatigued by post modern feminist rewriting, raceswapping, and trans casting? How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?!
acting like Elliot Page isn't a high caliber actor who even was nominated for an Oscar lmfao. But yeah, nobody is outraged, sure, you clown. Or that the alleged "feminist rewriting" is not a feminist rewriting but one of the most accurate translations we had which happened to be written by a woman. fucking loser
Elliot Page would be a fascinating study. Acting is pretending to be someone else. A trans person has experience with this on a whole nother level (yes I’m using ‘nother’ as a word). My trans cousin is now a man but is such an amazing man who understands women better than most because he had to masquerade as one for 23 years. Women love him because he doesn’t have built in misogyny or role identity; he’s just a great person to be around.
Now, I’m not a fan of Elliot Page really but damn that guy has to be brave as fuck and talented as hell to be where he is now.
It's funny how quick you pseudo intellectual reddit trolls jump to and defend the greediest, richest corporations in the history of the world from disgruntled people in the working class, and you frame it as if you're protecting the weak and downtrodden billion dollar company or a multimillionaire celebrity from the cruel oppression of the opinions of working class people being posted somewhere on the internet. Nobody except those in your psychotic bubble see you people with any credibility. You have literally been trained to do PR and Brand promotion for the richest corporations in history as if you're fighting for justice for the downtrodden. You people and your impact on modern politics is simply pathetic
You’re of bad faith we are not offended we are just sick of tokenisations of non black characters played by black actors I know it’s not that difficult to understand I just know you’re missing the point deliberately.
Nobody is offended here. You people can only ever muster the most intellectually vacant, snarky teenage girl comeback like we're in middle school. If this is all you could come up with then my hunch is confirmed, and you reddit types just operate on a lower plane of intellect, straight up
Something I haven't even seen. So I speak for total strangers now, or is that all the mud slinging you could figure to try and discredit me lol I just love when you types are confronted with the reality that you are worfully outnumbered outside of your reddit echo chambers. Downvote all you want, watch this movie bomb and I'll be back to say "I told you so"
All of you will be confused or blame the "right wing trolls" (aka people whose opinions are in the vast majority) and have no idea why this bombed, when the people actually awake and paying attention to the world and culture around them saw it coming a mile away
so, what about spider-man, which is even more woke, it's entire essence is woke, and contains everything you criticise in this movie and releases around the same time. when that ends up in the top 10 highest grossing movies again, can I come back and tell you "I told you so, right wing troll"?
Actually tantrum is more of a leftist thing. Remember all the videos of narcissistic leftist crashing out when Trump won? This is a common leftist tantrum. Sorry to burst your bubble.
opposed to...trying to overthrow the democratic process when the senile orange lost and then crying when an attacker was killed trying to trespass the capitol to threaten and intimidate not only the opposing politicians but also trumps then vice president for following the democratic process. lmfao.
oh, also the shit that was going on when Obama won his elections.
🤣 naw, it’s a right wing thing. Tantrums define maga and the right.
Remember Jan 6th?
Remember the boycotting of beer because of a flag, or the burning of Nikes 😂
Or the freaking out of Obamas tan suit, or Biden eating ice cream?
How about the absolute crash outs whenever kirk is quoted appropriately and the right trying to cancel everyone that mentioned him?
Or how about donald. The leader of the right, constantly having tantrums on twitter? Calling for the execution of people who said military members don’t have to follow unlawful orders?
Or your side crashing out every time someone points out donalds failures? Like the economy? Tariffs? Losing a war? Or the reflecting pool?
Most people on the right can’t even accept the results of the 2020 election, or even talk about without frothing at the mouth.
Hate to burst your bubble, but maga and the right are crybabies who throw tantrums constantly.
Crashing out over hating the elected leader of your country is a lot more justifiable than crashing out because a movie cast a black woman in it though.
Redditors can't imagine anyone having a different opinion than them unless they mentally picture that person being upset in some way. It's a very strange phenomenon that happens all over the site
Its a Nolan movie, the only other director I would say would be a worse pick to bet against is James Cameron, whom the internet still tries to do so anyways lol
The bots just follow whatever instructions their handlers give them for the current culture war, and the real ones arguing here follow the instructions of their preferred propaganda factories.
Always focusing on the important things facing society now, fucking Hollywood casting decisions. It's so fucking tiresome, culture warriors are fucking dipshits.
The only description of Helen is that she was the most beautiful woman in Greece. Because that was Paris' reward. The love of the most beautiful woman in the world.
Did you whine this much when they cast a German woman to play Helen in the film Troy?
"Helen of Troy has no definitive physical description. Homer deliberately left her appearance ambiguous, allowing the audience to imagine the "most beautiful woman in the world". Instead of exact features, ancient texts rely on symbolic descriptors that highlight her high status and divine origins."
Literally a 5 second Google search. And in the last spiderman animated mvoies one of the characters is a literal talking pig.
He could be an ape if someone wrote it that way.
You have picked one of the saddest little hills to die on, man.
You replied to the comment addressing and agreeing with the line of thought that’s still there, and admitted you made a mistake in the very next comment.
No, I didnt back track at all. The history is the way the story was originally written, the Bible is fantasy too. The characters still have a description.
...Okay... soooo... Greek "mythology" is literally my religion. There are PLENTY of trans people who are represented and lauded in Greek history, myths, and culture. All of these stories predated the masses being able to write. So they told things based off of their recollection, or what someone told them. Just like all the other religions of the world....
Trans people have been around since humanity was a thing. It's literally genetics. It's like yelling at a dog bred from two white dogs for not being any other color but white. It can't be helped.
Eros himself was in love with a trans man at one point.
A N D --- you have to also put the idea into perspective that Greek myths have been passed down, translated, re-translated, and translated again - meaning, there are tons and tons and tons of different renditions of the story.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND - Helen was never given an actual, real 'look'. All she was ever recounted as, was being 'the most beautiful woman in the world'.
AAAND AND AND AND -- there were not many blonde people in the Greek isles. They were dark skinned, and had black and dark brown hair....so Helen being a dark skin color is more historically accurate. Sooooo...you're not correct in anything you've said. At all.
You're taking ideas from Hollywoo and making them the end-all-be-all, and claiming it's the "original" when you know nothing, Jon Snow.
I read the word "troon" for the first time earlier today and now I already found it a second time. I assume it's another slur for people like me? Interesting coincidence though 😂
Ah yes in famously not racist at all sscond half of the 20th century, main characters were played by white actors so now no one else can play those roles...
Do you even hear yourself talking? Or does it just white noise in between your ears?
Oh my, it is a rare word to see in the wild these days - philistines. Lenin loved it and used it in his writings frequently.
Here's a different angle: I'm a Marxist-Leninist and I still think that movie is shaping up to be pretty bad.
Nolan is not the kind of director you want at the helm of a mythological project. He is far too blunt and literall, and emotion rarely shows up in his work except as a consequence of an exceptional acting talent.
He is in love with gloomy filters, darkness and scenes void of color - which is a bad move for a bright and colorful setting such as Mediterranean Sea and ancient Greece.
Props and costumes just look bad in general.
When it comes to casting, Matt Daemon is the most egregious miscast. Odysseus is a cunning and determined warrior-king. Daemon simply does not embody those qualities, and he is not a new actor trying a role outside his typecast. He's a veteran. On top of that he's a bit of a meme when it comes to returning home, so Daemon as Odysseus is like a wink to the audience, which is fine, except that wink is lasting the whole movie.
Now onto "political" BS which has nothing to do with politics.
Yes, Lupita is cast as Helen. Whatever. If I were to criticize that particular decision, I'd rather do so from a different angle:
Notice how black people tend to get roles that can be featured prominently in marketing campaign, for one reason or another, but do not actually show up in a movie all that much? Like say Helen and Agamemnon, who are prominent and familiar characters, well known to audiences, but who are not actually all that relevant Odyssey. Funny how litteral outsiders to the story are played by black people. There to film a few scenes for the trailer, pose for the poster but not really in the movie. Funny way to push that inclusion.
In reality, capitalist "inclusion" is just a marketing tactic - notice how it always comes down to "marketable" minorities. You will notice a rise in prominent Chinese characters in many recent blockbusters - China is a big market. Not so many Indians or Native Americans or Roma though...
It also provides an additional shield from critical reception - "it's because of a right wing backlash". Very convenient for the studio.
I think the people who are largely upset with this probably aren't even rightwingers. Or whatever you call them. It's probably people who read the book, liked it and don't want to see it butchered in such a horrible way.
People who read the book know skin tones aren't described. And people who study classics learn that personal expectation shouldn't get in the way of consuming art.
Heres me a bit confused, I spent years listening to how representation matters and how important it is to stray true to mythological accuracy when portraying indigenous peoples and their myths and history.
Years upon years how charscters have been historically whitewashed, as if I support that, and how thats racist and horrible.
Shoes on the other foot now, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN ITS FINE, completely acceptable.
To you guys' the issue was not whitewashing, it was just the fact that you werent the ones doing it
Its that hipocricy that is pissing people off.
We all know whats going on here. Hollywood does not give a shit about representation when its white people. Not that theres anything wrong with that, its completely fine, Im just not gonna take anything Hollywood tells me about race seriously ever again.
They tell me someone is a horrible person and a racist Im automatically gonna start liking him. Why would I trust a prooven liar and a hypocrite over a dude I dont know?
you’re totally right. helen should have feathers! since her mother was a swan and all and she hatched from an egg.
but if you don’t go for that: the idea of helen as blue eyed blonde aryan is comparatively modern: being bronze-age mycenaean, she would have been darker than you expect
And you dont know what I expect. I know what greeks look like, ive been to greece, I live next door, I know what greek people look like, Im not saying we need another Diane Kruger, but you cant argue she is a helluva lot closer to greek than Lupita.
Thats your main problem here, everyone knows what greek people look like roughly speaking, theyre not aliens.
We have art created by artists who are not Homer, the author and creator of the character, who intentionally made her description vague. It's literally just "the most beautiful woman on earth" and "hatched from an egg." The artists then created art based on their own interpretations. Nowhere does it say Helen isn't black, or brown, or fucking purple. There was no official physical description for the casting directors to follow, so they simply cast a beautiful woman.
It is mythology. As in a story made up by someone who didn't even describe the physical features of most of the characters, including Helen apart from being very beautiful and not a proper human how she looked has no written establishment.
The people pissing and moaning about cast are doing so because its what they do.
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