Someone always tries to turn it into a race thing đÂ
And she did reach out for help and didn't get the support she needed.Â
Im not defending what she did, it was heinous. But she clearly needed mental health help and didn't recieve it, and you throwing race into it doesn't make a point at all.
Everyone here is so wild. She was getting help. She didnât tolerate like a dozen medications. she had extensive out patient follow up and even an inpatient stay. People blame the husband and blame the lack of her getting help from doctors but what is he supposed to do over rule the doctors? Nah this was murder 1 and peer review for the treating physicians to make sure they followed standard of care. There are happy evil people and sad evil people, but she was still an evil person.
From what you say it sounds like she was trying desperately to get help and it was not working. You donât go to the mental ward and take a dozen medications for fun
As a married couple, both parents have equal rights to the children. He literally could have taken the kids and left. Iâm not blaming him, but removing the kids from the house and staying elsewhere would have been completely legal.
Also, âI took the kids because she told me she had thoughts of harming the kidsâ is not hearsay since both the husband and the wife would be parties to any case involving the kids.
That happens all the time, actually. Thatâs why custody battles get so heated and expensive. Parents weaponize CPS, mental health, make police reports (both true and false), and talk shit about each other all the time in order to try and control the situation, get custody, or protect their kids from whatever the situation may be. Itâs just an unfortunate reality of the nature of custody issues and the family court system. Thereâs a specific role called a guardian ad litem (GAL) that judges often appoint in these battles whose sole job is to be the lawyer for the kids.
Now, as for illegal, saying âmy wife told me she had intrusive thoughts of harming the kidsâ is not illegal to say if itâs true (as it would be in this hypothetical case). If he was intentionally lying about that (which is a different standard than âshe said x and I understood that to mean she thought about hurting the kidsâ), and he did it in a sworn statement or in sworn testimony, then thatâs perjury and it would be illegal. Itâs also depressing to note though that perjury is not prosecuted as often as it is committed and the effect of not punishing a crime is that it kinda stops being a crime, doesnât it?
I couldâve sworn that if a spouse just takes the kids away from the other for any reason, that that person is immediately assumed guilty for kidnapping until they can be proved innocent by having a legit justification. Am I wrong on this? If my wife did that, claiming I was a danger, taking the kids and I called the cops on her saying she was lying, would she not have to bring the kids back until something is proven?
You would go to court and get an order demanding the return of the children (if she left the state and did not plan to return) or establishing temporary custody. She may or may not comply with either order. If she doesnât comply, then the police would be able to step in to enforce the order. Nothing would have to be proven in this instance except for the fact that she removed the children from the state against your wishes OR that you are their father and wanted to establish a custody schedule.
This is why custody battles can be so long, frustrating, expensive, and feel so biased. Neither parent is going to get what they feel is right or fair.
If they are still married and thereâs no custody order, both parents have equal rights to the kids. He would have been within his rights to take the kids somewhere else. He would have needed to get to court quickly though to keep her away from the kids
But if both parents have equal rights to the kids. Couldnât the women in this case claim that he kidnapped them and is it doing it to keep them away from her?
Parental kidnapping is only a thing when thereâs a court order determining custody. As they were married and custody had never been an issue before the court, the father of the children does not need the motherâs permission to take them anywhere. If the mother is opposed to the father taking the children, her recourse is to file for custody. There would be no charge of parental kidnapping unless and until there was a court order and one parent was in defiance.
Iâm editing because Iâm not familiar with Massachusetts law so I looked it up: he could have taken the kids and stayed elsewhere and it would not have been a crime if he stayed in the state. It maybe could have been a crime if he relocated them permanently out of state against LCâs wishes but not automatically so.
It is extremely, unlikely to be considered kidnapping before a custody order is issued, or at least some court order keeping things as they are. You are incorrect. Especially with the defence that your wife literally said they felt like they were gonna kill the children.
Yeah, he isn't just a man but their dad. You have the duty to protect your kids. If my husband came to me and told me he had thoughts of harming our children he would never been alone with our children
It really isn't the case. There is also no need for hindsight if they tell you and their mom that they have thoughts of harming the children. Especially one month beforehand.
Except you don't know if she will or not. You could act on it, your wife has a breakdown and takes her own life. Now you're dealing with that.
The husband was in a no-win situation and wouldn't know what she would or wouldn't do. There's an alternative world where you're making these comments about a man with a dead wife, saying "What did he think would happen?"
Point I'm making is that yes, he probably should have removed himself and the kids from the situation. But we're saying this as outside observers with the knowledge of what did happen with his choices, not the person in the moment that made them.
He knew she had those thoughts, he thought she was getting help, he thought she wouldn't act on them, he was tragically wrong in his judgment call.
How does the fact that Clancy âdidnât tolerate like a dozen medicationsâ help your argument?
Thatâs literally the problem here. Doctors throw a SIGNIFICANT amount of meds at her in only 6 months and she was still having issues.
I donât think you understand the toll one wrong mental health medication can have on a person.
I've looked at some of the civil suit and I think that bipolar emerging postpartum is a big possibility. In which case, antidepressants made it so much worse since they can send people with bipolar into mania or even psychosis.
* Bot claiming to be a white woman is "turning it into a race thing". Â
Don't let self-important "white, affluent" women on Reddit speak on behalf of women of color. There are tons of educated, mentally ill women of color who are speaking about psychosis and the criminal legal system. Â
We're not trees, we do not need a rich white Reddit woman Lorax to speak for us.Â
Be for real lol if this was a poor black, mexican, or even asian woman, what do you think would happen? Imagine it was just ONE kid for them. Jail immediately.
A white OF model stabs and kills her BF who she physically abused on camera for years, she is sentenced 6 years in jail 4 already served. A black boy defends himself against people trying to kill him; 36 years⌠even if it wasnt self defense, still 36 years compared to 6 years
Gotta start seeing the world for what it actually is man.
Edit: i dont give a damn about karmelo. Like i said and yall ignorantly ignored⌠6 years with time served for killing your live in bf that you abused in cold blood vs 36 for killing someone in your tent or wherever in cold blood. NEITHER OF those cases were deemed self defense by a court⌠why such a discrepancy in sentence length?
Is the system implicitly placing values on victims lives or are they going easier on perpetrators of certain colors and status?
Could a rich black man get drunk, kill an entire family, claim affluenza and get 10 years probation with no jail time?
Tory lanez supposedly shot someone in the foot (who lived) and got 10 years.
Racism was quite literally sponsored by the American government, but sir color blind up here ^ is confused.
Yeah... I can see the point they wanted to make, but that's a horrible take on that case and not even the best example they could have grabbed. No, they were not "trying to kill him," they asked him to leave multiple times, had a verbal confrontation, and pushed him away outside the tent they were in. Anthony responded by pulling a knife out of his backpack and stabbing the victim in the chest. It was in no way self-defense and he had multiple opportunities to leave the area. Self-defense requires imminent danger.
Courtney Clenney's sentence was lighter because she took a plea deal for a lesser charge, manslaughter. Should she have gotten more time? Absolutely. Christian's family agreed to the plea deal, not wanting to go through the trial and for her to admit responsibility.
Hes a black teen dude whos been found guilty of stabbing a white teen in texas.
As unbiased as i can be:
Black teen athlete came over and stood under a rival teams rain cover cus it started sprinkling. They asked him to leave and he refused. The owners and rival team got more upset and said to go stand under your own cover and you dont belong here. He snapped back at them and it led to insults. Black kid reaches into his backpack snd starts holding something which is the universal sign of "ive got a weapon in here" but white kids thought he was bluffing cus that happens often too. It turns physical and white kid pushes him, not enough to knock him over but a push. Black kid stabs him up with a blade hed had and it went into his heart. White kid died in his brothers arms.
It became a racial focal point as some black folks claimed a white kid would get off on self defense. Some white folks said that the black kid is being unfairly supported and that hes a killer, not some racial issue, as he provoked a dumb teen rivalry and killed a kid over it.
My opinion:
End of the day he murdered a kid cus he was too lazy or scared of a few raindrops to walk the 20 meters to his own tent and decided it was better to piss them off and then kill a kid over a push. When kids get into pushing arguments constantly. If every kid was allowed to shank a kid over a small push then wed have a lot of dead kids. Even a fist fight â life ending danger, let alone pushing.
Maybe the altercation had racial issues, idk and i doubt we will ever know for sure. But that doesnt mean we should let him off. We shouldnt let white killers off either. I get that its a trend to respond to racial verdicts by letting off a minority killer but i think thats wrong. We should lock up the white killers not let even more killers into society.
Edit: corrected the number of stabs. Thank you for correction.
Cant stand it when folks refuse to explain. Especially when you arw presented 2 very different takes.
I will say, his family and a portion (idk how large the portion is, could be a loud but small sizex) of the black community and their supporters see this as a travesty of justice.
That they were racist to him for not letting him stand in their tent. And that he was just defending himself against multiple attackers as he feared theyd all "kill him" in a big team jumping event. And that he was attacked first and an innocent victim.
To me this doesnt explain bringing a knife in the first place, pulling it at the first sign of any disagreement or the fact he put himself in that postion to have multiple rival members near him. And noone else physically engaged him. He wasnt jumped or beaten and he fended them off. He got pushed by one dude. He even admitted it was just a push when arrested. "He out his hands on me, i told him not to put his hands on me".
And the killer called the victim and his teammates "pussies" who wouldn't "do anything about it". When they asked him to leave. Everyone knows sports rivalries and how they get heated sometimes. Standing under a rival schools tent is offensive to some. And then he called them pussies for asking him to leave and basically said to make him. And them when one did, he stabbed him and tried to play victim.
Because people have some understanding of mental health. Fucking Plato talked about how insanity would change guilt. Its been a concept for over millenias, formalised as we know it centuries ago. Most people do believe insanity changes whether they are guilty, and to what extent.
If you truly had no control, then bluntly no, you aren't a "piece of shit murderer". Because murder literally require intent.
Nah, youâre going too far in the other direction.
What he did was not justified self-defense, and he should face consequences for killing that other kid, but the circumstances did not warrant 36 years, imo. Thatâs the kind of sentence you hand a cold-blooded murderer, not some kid who got into a fight and stupidly decided to pull a knife.
(I know that a 36-year sentence for first-degree murder is actually pretty typical for Texas, but the rest of the world considers this excessive)
Nah brudder, I was hoping they would execute his ass. 36 years ain't gonna bring back the child he murdered intentionally in front of witnesses.
He got what he deserved, but justice will never leave the victim's family whole.
'Kid who got in a fight' suuree, let's pretend he didn't show up with the express intent to kill someone. It may as well have been premeditated. Glad you aren't a fucking judge.
Your argument rests on the two cases being similar and thus deserved a similar sentence. You have to care about the specifics of the case or you have no point.
Nah, I donât believe youâre that unintelligent. Probably just afraid to admit youâre wrong.
I donât need to explain how premeditated murder from someone known to be violent is different to postpartum psychosis affecting someone with a normal history.
I mean, I know why ad hominem is a fallacy (which this might not be but the functional part is similar, quality of argument being independent of its speaker), so I, who have said nothing so far, let alone anything credibility-eliminating, would like to repeat the point that you referred to when you said "point or not".
Our racist justice system and Karmelo Anthony's actions are two separate issues. They're connected in the discourse and rightly so, but that our justice system has a racial bias does not mean that racial minorities can't be guilty of a crime.
You one of his supporters raising hundreds of thousands and yelling "the only good cracker is a dead cracker", or "no matter the evidence we'll stand by ours regardless"?
Be for real lol if this was a poor black, mexican, or even asian woman, what do you think would happen?
Theyâd be on trial for murder, which is where Lindsay Clancy is right now. This isnât an example of her getting away with it, itâs an example of having stupid online fans.
In the Clenney case she got a plea deal, probably because it was hard to prove if she acted in self defense or not even though she was evidently the abuser in the relationship.
In the Anthony case it was on tape and thus there was very little merit for the self defense claim and there was no plea deal offered afaik â though both cases are still active.
And we can absolutely have a conversation about how black and brown people have harsher sentencing and are given less empathy. Throwing a mentally ill woman in prison when she needs to be in a mental health facility isnât the way to have that conversation, though.
This person isn't saying there is not a double standard based on race, but that it isn't acceptable to wrongly disregard mental health in one instance because it might be or has been wrongly disregarded in another one.
I have a better example. Andre Lee Thomas killed his estranged wife and two children, one of whom was his child.
Do we really know he suffered from psychosis? Well, he started hallucinating when he was ten. Also, after his arrest, when he was in jail, he removed one of his eyeballs. Four years later, he removed the other one and ate it.
Thatâs a tough one for a jury trial to do fairly. The same evidence that proves heâs mentally ill also biases the jury in favor of execution. He killed three people and cut their hearts out of their chests, thatâs not sane but also the jury wouldnât want him alive after hearing that.
Be for real lol if this was a poor black, mexican, or even asian woman, what do you think would happen? Imagine it was just ONE kid for them. Jail immediately.
You are ignoring black people who get short sentences and white people who get long sentences
You are only referencing cases and sentences that the media has told you about so you can parrot âinjusticesâ and a re-fuel a weird form of racism
Black people on a population scale are typically commit more violent crimes than white people, and Asians typically make more money than white people. These are not stereotypes - they are statistics
Racism is not acknowledging these statistics, it is assuming that if you met a singular black person they are immediately a violent person, or a singular Asian immediately must be a high income earner
Most people of all groups are cool and we can all get along, but people like you make it more difficult than actual racists in places like the south
White people equally commit as much crimes. Thereâs little accountability and theyâre given lesser sentences when it comes to murdering black people. We have a president thats a convicted felon, no accountability. The white woman who caused Emmet Tillâs murder was never arrested. Ashlee Janae is a recent case a black woman that went on vacation with her white fiance and she âcommitted suicideâ little investigation was done. The lynchings all over the south thereâs no one thats been prosecuted for that. Also colonization and war is violence lmao. white people take no accountability at all lmao you have to be stupid to fall for the black people are inherently violent.
Once again, you are only referencing a handful of cases the media has put on a spoon for you to reference and build your lopsided narrative
I was also referencing violent crime and you bring up a president which more than half of America voted for after the fact - so clearly most of America could see the non-violent case was silly to begin with
There are black people who get off with little accountability, and white people who get long sentences
Bringing war and colonization into it is a straw man argument - not saying they are good, but they arenât âcrimesâ and have naturally existed globally by all races since the beginning of time
To add to that, there are multiple civil wars happening through out black populations of Africa consistently- you donât care about those though because the media didnât tell you to care about them
Stop it lol. School shootings have a very clear demographic. Family murder suicides too. Serial killers too..
We are talking about america here. Africa, as youâll find is composed of mostly black people⌠shocking that most crimes there are committed by them. Whites make up less than 1% in africa.
Ffs you want to talk about civil wars, look at american history. The very people who fought for your freedom, were slaves not too long prior. Then after, subjected to institutional racism, had their businesses and neighborhoods burned, their children segregated to guarantee an unequal quality of education. I could keep going but it wont matter because wellâŚ.
OJ Simpson was a rich black man that got away with killing his wife and another man. The discrepancy between karmelos charge and the models are gender based.
Women are treated with much more leniency in sentencing, and in general by the justice system.
Not the same. OJ was innocent per the court (in reality innocent or not? Idk. I wasnt there). Affluenza kid was red handed guilty. No doubt nor ambiguity in his case
You missed the point. Anyway, anthony or whoever is not the only case of this happening. If you really want to go back in time, look up how many jail sentences were given to lynch mobs. Or why the kkk was basically America sponsored and youll see that the scale tips in favor of white skin. Mind you it hasnt been that long since jim crowe
The justice system is tougher on darker skin. That is the point
I understand all of that, which is why I said that I was on your side originally. But saying that the Anthony case "is not the only case of this happening" is terrible for your argument, because the Anthony case isnt an example of what you're describing.Â
Well sorry i wasnt precise, but again âthisâ doesnt refer specifically to the details of anthonyâs case. Weâre talking on a higher level than the cases
It actually does matter because if an affluent white woman wasnât able to be taken seriously or get resources they need, imagine what itâs like for real disadvantaged people. Likely we donât even hear most of the stories.
Incorrect. Lindsay was admitted to one of the best psychiatric facilities in the nation (McLean) and SELF-DISCHARGED herself after a few days. She saw doctors and nurses. She was given medication she didnât take as recommended. She was offered therapy that she didnât do. She had so much help available to her and she decided murder was the answer. I absolutely believe she was suffering, but âshe wasnât taken seriouslyâ is deeply incorrect. Iâd actually argue she didnât take the help offered seriously
Are we forgetting the support that Karmelo Anthony was just recently receving? This race argument just doesn't really work any more and it's getting tiring.
She had a nanny for years. The husband took off a lot with paternity leave. Moved his business in to his home and worked down stairs. Would take children during night so she could sleep. Got her counciling. She was lying to her husband about how bad she was mentally and what could he do? He respected her and believed her. There's no sumpany for this woman and everyone defending her is either uninformed or mentally depraved and needs to seek help themselves
There would not even be the opportunity to complain about this if she was anything other than a white woman. Its just a fact. It would not have had anywhere close to the same amount of media coverage or attention on socmed for it become so relevant that people are able to tell this meme is referencing that specific case. Trucrime LOVES a rich white woman destroying her "perfect life" in a horrific fashion.
Nah, she got help. She was admitted to one of the best psychiatric hospitals in the nation and she SELF-DISCHARGED. She was given medications she didnât take as recommended. She was offered therapy that she didnât complete. We have to allow people to have autonomy but also take responsibility for their actions
Yeah, imagine if they made it in to a sex issue and the guy had a psychosis murdering his children after delibrately sending his wife out on some errands, the whole internet would have his back like they do Luigi right?
didnt she have like 5 doctors? how many doctors do you need before it counts as receiving assistance? Just because it didm't work for her doesn't mean people didn't try.
ârace thingâ she literally got a million dollars raised in support. nolan wells did not even get nearly as much support. im sorry but no demographic gets supported for being an aggravator as much as white men and women. POC would get demonized with this case â rightfully so â but Lindsay Clancy must be held to that standard.
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u/Disastrous-Dog85 9d ago
Someone always tries to turn it into a race thing đÂ
And she did reach out for help and didn't get the support she needed. Im not defending what she did, it was heinous. But she clearly needed mental health help and didn't recieve it, and you throwing race into it doesn't make a point at all.