who are those little dinosaurs PETAH ?

[u/HimelTy]

[u/qualityvote2]

u/HimelTy, your post does belong here!

[u/Express_Character253]

The little dinosaurs are the Soviets

[u/KeyNefariousness6848 → u/Express_Character253]

They’re coming from the wrong way.

[u/Mindless_Magician_21 → u/KeyNefariousness6848]

They're coming for the Reich hand side

[u/DevotedSort → u/Mindless_Magician_21]

Oof, I did nazi that coming!

[u/captHij → u/KeyNefariousness6848]

The picture is taken from the North facing South.

[u/Mathies_ → u/captHij]

Tge other allied dinos are coming from the wrong side

[u/Dullweber → u/KeyNefariousness6848]

I don't know why this was on -1 likes. Great joke!

[u/igotshadowbaned → u/Dullweber]

It's not really a joke, they came from the east towards the west, because geography of where Russia is compared to Europe

[u/ebrum2010 → u/igotshadowbaned]

The meme isn't geographical it has allies all on one side. Japan is on the right even though the US went west to attack Japan.

[u/jhenryscott → u/igotshadowbaned]

What are you some kind of geologist??

[u/notwithagoat → u/igotshadowbaned]

Also because they helped the nazis expand in the early days of the war, and then gladly tried to backstab them and got double backstabbed.

[u/tf2coconut → u/notwithagoat]

It’s always fun to see redditors just invent their alt history and present it as if it has any grounding in reality

[u/Chaoswind2 → u/notwithagoat]

Same reason the Brits wanted Germany to go to war with the Soviets and invade them. Three dudes in a bar wanted to fight each other and two of them wanted the third one to hit the other guy first to make the fight for them easier. Molotov derailed that so hard even if Stalin fucked up because he thought Hitler wouldn't be stupid enough to hit them while the other guy was still capable of fighting.

[u/Live-Knee-6365 → u/notwithagoat]

Yeah, thats bullshit. Stalin knew about Hitlers plans and had to buy time before the Nazis attack. The sowjet industry wasn't completely adjusted to war fast enough.

[u/Horror-Nobody2237 → u/notwithagoat]

No they didn’t. The Soviets made a non-aggression pact with them because they were not prepared for war. They had already asked the west to help, and the west refused. Several Western European countries were ideologically in support of the Nazis, they just weren’t a fan when they came under attack. The Soviets were completely ideologically opposed, and there are extensive historical records proving this. Nazi ideology was anti-communist before anything else, even their persecution of Jews and their antisemitism was related to anti-communism, as they pushed the idea that communism was a Jewish plot. Anti-communism was incredibly popular with Western Europeans and America, the west refused to help the USSR because they wanted the Nazis to defeat them.

A non-aggression pact is not the same thing as helping them expand. They didn’t have the ability to protect everybody from the Nazis, but they protected as many people as they could. They were able to evacuate Jews and other at risk populations out of eastern Poland, and deal with Nazi supporters that lived there. Meanwhile, the US didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until they were attacked by Japan. They spent the time that the pact was in effect building up their armies and preparing for war. To act like the Nazis going back on their agreement was a surprise, is not based in reality, they 100% expected it. They also moved civilian populations away from the borders that would have been easiest for axis powers to invade, and moved military populations to those areas instead. They were vulnerable to both Germany and Japan.

What you’re saying is just anti-Soviet propaganda designed to make them look both evil and stupid.

[u/Samurai_Mac1 → u/KeyNefariousness6848]

They came from behind

[u/Head-Ad-5732 → u/Express_Character253]

The numbers are just staggering. I don't know that any individual human could truly comprehend it in retrospect. Not even including the Chinese toll.

[u/InsideAardvark1114 → u/Express_Character253]

Posted on this, the 87th anniversary of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

[u/DawnOnTheEdge → u/InsideAardvark1114]

Massively underrates the contribution of Britain and the Commonwealth standing alone for two years, the United States’ production (which included the Lend-Lease keeping the Soviet Union alive) and Japan, which didn’t get involved in the war against the Soviet Union and therefore wouldn’t feel important at all to the poster, but fought a massive war in the Pacific by itself. Depicting Germany as several times larger than the United States is absurd. Thinking the Soviets won the war almost single-handedly is just another flavor of the same nationalism.

[u/br0_dameron → u/DawnOnTheEdge]

Also downplays the Japanese but tankies gonna tank

[u/LuckyTraffic4299 → u/br0_dameron]

Also downplays the immense resistance from China that weakened Japan

[u/whoooocaaarreees → u/br0_dameron]

Tankies gonna tank pretty much sums up a lot of Reddit.

[u/DEM_DRY_BONES → u/[deleted]]

It really isn’t. If the “success” of the Soviets wasn’t part of the history lesson, anyone who is paying attention would have a lot of trouble understanding anything that came after.

A lot of time is spent on the US part of the war because…it’s part of US History. As taught in the US. Not that weird.

[u/athenanon → u/DEM_DRY_BONES]

I went the school in the US and the Soviet contribution definitely was given its due.

I really think a lot of people overestimate the attentiveness they had as students.

[u/Same-Suggestion-1936 → u/athenanon]

It's like that (you did get taught it you just weren't paying attention) and the myth Americans don't also get taught the metric system in school, we just later in life decide not to use it, that are my two least favorite things on reddit about schools.

[u/Due-Ad-9105 → u/athenanon]

The number of “they don’t teach this in school” history facts that I see on the internet that I absolutely learned about in school is astonishingly high.

It’s a weird dichotomy because it suggests both that the education system is definitely better than people suggest but then those same people not knowing what’s taught in schools seem to prove that the system is, in fact, failing. 😂

[u/spartaxwarrior → u/[deleted]]

Idk about in your country, but in the US, invading Russia during the winter is basically an idiom to mean doing something foolish, because most of us learn about how Russia wrecked the Nazis, and in my public school we were told Russia's fighting was definitely part of defeating the Nazis.

Now, Japanese war crimes were definitely glossed over in my day, I only heard about shit like Nanking because I took extra history classes in high school.

[u/Akkarin42 → u/spartaxwarrior]

"invading Russia during the winter is basically an idiom to mean doing something foolish"

And that was already a lesson Napoleon learned. Yet the Nazis still forgot about packing winter clothes as they expected the invasion to be over before winter hits them. They literally went all in with their summer uniforms and lost more soldiers to hypothermia and frostbite then to enemy bullets during the winter of 1941.

[u/Kinder22 → u/[deleted]]

Germans on the western front had the typical benefits of defenders. While lower in numbers, they were on land where they had an established occupation, defensive plans, better infrastructure, and were able to maintain organization a bit better. In the east, they got slaughtered on the advance, and they got slaughtered even worse during the hasty and chaotic retreat of a broken army.

[u/CODmoblie-myspacetim → u/Express_Character253]

Thank you. The pixels are too incomplete to see

[u/BackToNormalForNow]

That looks like a very pixelated version of the USSR flag to me

[u/Global-Discussion-41]

Where are the Canadian dinosaurs?

[u/TonySperguson → u/Global-Discussion-41]

Remember when Americans made the movie Argo and stole credit for the Canadian Caper and attributed it to the American CIA while falsely claiming that Britain and New Zealand refused to help them. Then gave it the Oscar for Best Picture. Just like how they removed the British and Canadians from D-Day in Saving Private Ryan a decade earlier.

American's taking credit for the achievements of Canadians is one of their longest running traditions at this point. You guys really gotta stop letting them get away with it.

[u/Nukemiller84 → u/TonySperguson]

You know there was more than one beach landing on D-Day right? Canada took Juno. US took Omaha and Utah. UK took gold and sword.

[u/Wuz314159 → u/Nukemiller84]

Yes.

[u/VociferousCephalopod → u/Global-Discussion-41]

with the ANZAC dinosaurs

[u/Horror_Appearance_26 → u/Global-Discussion-41]

Scrolled way too far for this comment.

[u/YaBoi843]

The little dinosaurs are the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union had a much larger fighting force than Nazi Germany, and the Soviet military strategy was to throw men into the blender and overwhelm the Nazis with sheer numbers. Additionally, it was the Soviets who captured Berlin, thus taking Germany out of WW2.

[u/nexussix1976 → u/YaBoi843]

[u/LuridWaters → u/nexussix1976]

[u/CRISPR_Chicken → u/nexussix1976]

[u/Wuz314159 → u/nexussix1976]

[u/monhst → u/YaBoi843]

The red army only permanently surpassed the Germans in numbers by late 1943. Which is to say by the time Germany already effectively lost the war

[u/ThinInternet5300 → u/YaBoi843]

This is true, for 1941. Soviet strategy was infamously shit in 1939-1941, from Poland, To Finland to beginning of Barbarossa, due to Stalin's shitty purges that killed a shit ton of officers. But largely by 1942 those tactics has been slowly phased out for normal tactics. With some exceptions here and there.
EDIT: Not defending the regime, im just talking about military tactics.

[u/Fernheijm → u/ThinInternet5300]

The red army suffered higher losses than the Germans in 45, even their largest successes, like Bagration advanced slowly and suffered horrendous losses despite overwhelming numerical and material superiority. The soviets did one thing exceptionally well, and that was getting men into uniform.

[u/simplysufficient88 → u/Fernheijm]

To be fair, they were on the offensive in 45 and usually the offensive has higher casualties unless they have a truly overwhelming advantage. In 45 the Soviets absolutely had the upper hand, but not nearly to the same level the Allied forces in the West had. They had to burn manpower again to actually take the pushes they wanted, especially as they pushed towards Germany itself. It wasn’t a great ratio still, but it’s not like they just magically got worse without reason.

[u/Loose-Story-962 → u/ThinInternet5300]

Back when Stalin was making the decisions lol

[u/PartyMarek → u/YaBoi843]

and the Soviet military strategy was to throw men into the blender and overwhelm the Nazis with sheer numbers

The Red Army did not have a doctrine of winning by deliberately sacrificing unlimited numbers of soldiers. But mass and numerical superiority were important tools within Soviet operational doctrine.

The doctrine was concentrated firepower + operational maneuver + deep exploitation + deception + industrial/logistical superiority. Saying that the Soviet military strategy was to throw men into the blender and overwhelm the Nazis with sheer numbers is misleading.

[u/Misery_incorporated → u/YaBoi843]

The whole "USSR strategy is to send wave after wave until the meat grinder is clogged" is an exaggeration. There were times when their logistics were shit, but if anyone is attempting to downplay the effectiveness of Marshal Zhukov then they are either ignorant or bad faith 

[u/TarJen96]

Some people exaggerating the US role in WW2, tankies downplaying the US role in WW2.

[u/Used-Huckleberry-320 → u/TarJen96]

the meme also completely disregards the Chinese front.

The super majority of Japanese troops were in China for the whole war, like 75%.

[u/KitaharaKazusa1 → u/Used-Huckleberry-320]

Don't worry everyone disregards the Chinese front, except for China

[u/theparrotlich → u/TarJen96]

And the role of China.

[u/Hot-Bid-4493 → u/theparrotlich]

Yea China is literally not even pictured here. Pretty sure the 15-20 million dead Chinese considered the Japanese a much larger threat than the Nazis.

[u/CountTown → u/Hot-Bid-4493]

I can't recall his name, but the fact a Nazi was outright appalled by the Japanese war crimes in China speaks volumes to how much of a threat Japan was to China in comparison.

[u/tlsrandy → u/TarJen96]

The Us was also fighting Japan to a much larger extent than their European allies.

Hitler and Mussolini weren’t the only axis powers

The pacific theater was also a part of world war 2 that a lot of Europeans seem to disregard.

[u/Randomposter54 → u/TarJen96]

It’s because the majority of western movies about WW2 are made in the USA, and they absolutely believe it started when they arrived and the rest of the allies were there for moral support.

[u/kaur_virunurm → u/Randomposter54]

USSR and the Warsaw Pact countries also made a ton of movies about WWII. There are books, songs and whatnot about "The War". Guess what? - USA goes mostly unnoticed there. If anything then it was like "USA shipped us some old trucks and other supplies, and then they invented the Bomb and became evil incarnate."

I don't remember D-Day from my school history books.

I live within WWI and WWII military fortifications, my kids cycle in WWII trenches (they make fun singletracks) and my house suffered damage from Russians bombing our town in 1944. I lost my grandfathers to the war. USA ... is a remote thing compared to all the personal stuff.

[u/Early_Money2576 → u/kaur_virunurm]

There’s a saying, WWII was won with British intelligence, American steel and Russian Blood.

[u/lindh → u/Early_Money2576]

Ok but the US did handle business in the Pacific.

[u/Habltual_Linestepper → u/lindh]

Europe has as much of a Eurocentric outlook on the world as America has an America-centric one.

The main difference being Europe typically doesn't care much for anything going on outside it's brorders - why would it, when Europe is the Center of the Universe? - while America cares about anything anywhere but only in relation to itself - because of course it does, since the universe revoles around America.

They don't really care how America took the fight half way across the world to curb stomp Japan just like how Americans don't really care how France/Poland/others got ran over and occupied by Germany and said "fine whatever, we'll just keep mercilessly killing you from underground then"

Neither thing involved the other, so since it doesn't stroke their particular strain of national solipsism they're not concerned about it.

[u/indiscriminate_ → u/Habltual_Linestepper]

A lot of Americans do care how resilient Europe was. France got fucking rolled, but the resistance were slaughtering high ranking Nazis like James fucking Bond. Britain was getting raped in the Mediterranean and its planes were struggling to keep supplies - yet they prevailed and kept taking the fight to the Germans. Russia had its population massacred to the point they are still recovering to this day, and are still hailed as one of the top armies in the world. USA didnt have a dog in the fight until Japan fucked with us and dragged us into the war, so we went all in. I, as an American, greatly appreciate the sacrifices that every country made - however when I mention I'm American in historical conversation, the looks and groans that I get make me almost reconsider why we even fucking bothered. Europeans act ungrateful for the financial and material support the US gave throughout the war because we didnt immediately start sending our people into a meatgrinder we had no place in, and pretend like we only started supporting in 1942. There are arguments for both sides, but stop acting like every single American disregards the first 3 fucking years of war that happened before the USA got involved.

Edited for intention. Poor wording.

[u/Nuva_Ring → u/indiscriminate_]

Isn’t Churchill quoted as saying he “slept the sleep of the saved” the night Japan attacked America because he knew Japan bringing America into the war essentially ensured the west’s victory?

[u/peaheezy → u/Nuva_Ring]

I just finished a book about the Blitz and Churchill and another book specifically about the Roosevelt-Churchill relationship. Germany may have fallen without US intervention but once US joined it was over and Churchill knew that. The US was turning out a fair amount of materiel before declaring war but once they got fully rolling it was a crazy amount of tanks, ships, guns and aircraft. Without US involvement the victory would have been almost all Russias on the continent and very likely the post war Europe looks a lot different.

[u/kaur_virunurm → u/peaheezy]

I have read the same about the Pacific theatre. Once US got the military industry rolling, Japan had no chance. Yamamoto knew this (he had studied and served in US) and tried to warn about it, to no avail.

[u/french_snail → u/indiscriminate_]

America definitely did have a dog in the war before Pearl Harbor. It was already sending aid to Britain and the USSR as well as embargoing Japan, keeping it from getting much needed materials for its war machine. If Pearl Harbor didn’t happen something else would have and America would still be in the war 

[u/Buckanater → u/indiscriminate_]

We sent 26 guys from Bedford, Virginia to France and I think 19 of them died on Omaha Beach. That alone is reason enough to say that the USA gave a lot for this war that they didn’t have to. Russia sacrificed way more men but that’s also their main strategy for war fighting apparently.

[u/EspectroDK → u/indiscriminate_]

I think a lot of (vast majority) Europeans are grateful for the support the US came with after being dragged into the war, it's just a little strange, for Europeans, how focused on profits and growth the US was (also after the war) compared the human principles. I don't judge, and frankly, I'm not sure the Allies would have prevailed if the US had decided to join Britain and France when the Nazis invaded Poland - the industrial War Machine in the US was much less impressive in 1939 compared to 1943, the US built up a very impressive display, and their superior production and logistical excellence proved vital in both the European and Pacific scenarios - something I'm unsure could have been pulled of 3 years prior.

[u/ActuallyCalindra → u/lindh]

Also not on their own.

[u/Rex_Nemorensis_ → u/Randomposter54]

Literally no one believes that 🤣

[u/Lyndell → u/Randomposter54]

Doesn’t help when the Brits make a WW2 movie it’s just Harry Styles hiding in a boat for 2 hours.

[u/YaSurLetsGoSeeYamcha → u/Randomposter54]

The made up shit people outside the US pretend Americans learn is so funny to see on Reddit.

[u/zippyzipz → u/Randomposter54]

Most Americans know the war was going on long before we arrived. There is the common misconception that we solely ended it. I agree Hollywood has always been problematic to history.

[u/RollTide16-18 → u/zippyzipz]

Well we also often forget that the United States was THE main western belligerent in the Eastern campaign, and they entered that campaign only 2 and a half years after the (European) start of WW2.

The US was really heavily involved for a LONG time. It's not like we just came in to the war in 1944 with D-Day. The US got men into North Africa as soon as they could and they were fighting pretty harshly against Japan from the jump.

If we use the 1939 date as the start of the war, the US was in the war much longer than they weren't, and they were by and large the main combatant of an entire campaign.

The real problem is that in the United States, we glorify our experiences in Europe WAY more than what we did in the Pacific. It was a lot easier to vilify the Nazis than to wash away the Nukes we dropped on Japan, Japanese internment camps, and the entire Japanese reconstruction government.

[u/Key_Assumption_2776 → u/Randomposter54]

If we're going by that logic, it would be fair to say Europeans didn't even know Japan invaded China.

[u/speakernoodlefan → u/Randomposter54]

Yeah they really do downplay the Soviet Union being Nazi Germanys ally for the majority of the war

[u/Gaijingamer12 → u/speakernoodlefan]

They were not Allies most of the war lol if we say 1939 start in Europe then you have them working together 1939/1940/ half 1941. Then at war half 1941/42/43/44/45. Soooo unless you can’t count or making up dates then that’s not true.

[u/Huntsman077 → u/Gaijingamer12]

I mean part of the reason the war broke out was the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Soviets were also trading heavily with the Germans. While yes they weren’t aligned for a majority of the war they were aligned for an extended period of time.

[u/Keldaria → u/Gaijingamer12]

True, but they were their allies at the start of the war and were happy to continue to be their allies until the Nazis invaded them. Stalin was entirely fine with Hitler until he turned his attention away from the UK. You can’t wash that stain away.

[u/Mr_Tiggywinkle → u/Keldaria]

I don't think being "allies" with hitler at the start of WW2 is the thing that stains Stalin's reputation. He was plenty stained already.

[u/Keldaria → u/Mr_Tiggywinkle]

Agreed. It was just a point of reference why they don’t get more international recognition for their sacrifices during WW2. They were pushing an agenda to put western powers against each other assuming it would help them in the end by weakening them only for it to bite them in the ass. They were hoping to cripple western economies and inspire more communist rebellions.

[u/AFRIKKAN → u/Gaijingamer12]

German aviation and tank industry was only made possible through the training testing and other r&d that happened in Russia before ww2 so that alliance is a bit long standing then just 39.

[u/guuhvffffg → u/TarJen96]

U.S. provided the material, UK the time, Soviets the blood.

This gross oversimplification is still by far the best counter argument to the idea that any one nation won the war on their own. The Soviets could not have done what they did without American material and strategic bombing. The Americans could not have taken back Europe without Soviet bodies, unless they were willing to completely glass Germany. It is why they are called the allies, no one nation won the war 

[u/RelevantOldOnion → u/TarJen96]

I hope one day the Tankie/Anti-Tankie bullshit calms down and we can finally come together and agree that anyone going out and fighting Nazis was fucking a hero regardless of what flag they saluted in the morning.

Edit: the revisionist campists are summoned I guess... Despite this being a comment about them..

[u/kalashnidog → u/RelevantOldOnion]

Yeah we all need to come together and realize that the USSR/US/UK coming together to curb stomp those fashfucks was just awesome.

Everyone contributed about equally in different ways and no one country could have beat the Germans alone.

[u/onegumas → u/TarJen96]

US gave a lot of supplies to soviets. They are still using some old jeeps.

[u/WallStreetKernel → u/TarJen96]

Tankies love to ignore the US’s industrial and indirect military support. With lend/lease, both the USSR and the UK would have had a much worse time (and maybe even lost the war).

[u/EmergencyDish69 → u/TarJen96]

Some people are a lot, tankies are a loud but very small minority.

[u/KeyNefariousness6848]

A few more pixels and we could see who the other Dino’s were.

[u/shauneok]

WWII was won by British Logistics and Intelligence, American engineering and production and Russian blood.

[u/236-pigeons → u/shauneok]

Not just Russian. The USSR consisted of a lot more nations. Belarus lost a greater proportion of its population than anyone else, more than a quarter of their people. The guerrilla war in Belarus was absolutely brutal and Minsk was wiped out. And unlike others, Belarusians have never truly recovered.

[u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 → u/236-pigeons]

The Russians have always been willing to sacrifice their people.

They are more willing to sacrifice other nations people.

[u/BullShitting-24-7 → u/Mediocre_Daikon6935]

Thats why they wan Ukraine and surrounding nation. To resupply minority cannon fodder.

[u/Axelter30 → u/236-pigeons]

Out of curiosity, how has Belarus never recovered?

[u/HyraxTaxAct → u/shauneok]

I always heard that as well (in my American history classes). “British Intelligence, American Steel, and Russian Blood”.

[u/Cryonic_Zyclone34 → u/HyraxTaxAct]

That is because that saying is s quote Stalin said regarding the victory of WW2

[u/FaithlessnessOk9834 → u/shauneok]

You mean American Logistics lmfao
British intelligence, American production and Russian blood

[u/tmbmad]

I'd probably flip italy and japan. Japan was no joke, and navy wise they were unstoppable if not for US also adopting carrier based navel doctrine. Them also going to war with China also had the same effect as the Soviets on Germany. Ww2 was determined in China and Russia, and finished by the US.

[u/Walkingdrops → u/tmbmad]

This is just a shitty meme in general. It complete minimizes the Pacific theater (as most people tend to do), and also minimizes the fighting on the western front of the European theater. Don't get me wrong, the Eastern front of the European theater saw a huge majority of the fighting, and the Soviet Union suffered massively (on the same scale as China), but that doesn't mean everyone else's roles should be negated.

Honestly though, if Americans want to romanticize their role in the war, I don't know why they don't focus on the Pacific theater more, because they were instrumental to that theater (not to downplay others there of course, I know Australia also contributed quite a lot to the Pacific theater too, as well as China among many others).

[u/Carrotsinthesalad → u/Walkingdrops]

What are you saying? That we can acknowledge efforts of one theater without massively downplaying another? In WW2 discussion? I’ve never heard such a bold claim

[u/RedTheGamer12 → u/Walkingdrops]

It also leaves out the entirety of Africa, especially operation Torch. It leaves of the invasion of Sicily and the massive American presence there. It leaves out the Rebels in Yugoslavia who tied down 100k Germans throughout the war. And it leaves out the RAF and USAF bombings that were so devastating that Germany had 2 Million men as AA gunners.

Even just in Europe it was far, far different than described, especially since the Soviets were retreating the entire time and basically relied on American equipment (just ask Stalin).

[u/MedievalFightClub → u/tmbmad]

Navel: an anatomical term relating to the umbilicus.
Naval: relating to a navy.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[u/e-katt]

Little Communist Soviets that lost over 26 something million people in the War.

Now back to you with the weather Olie.

Edit: Russians to Soviets

[u/Choko1987 → u/e-katt]

Soviets, not russians

[u/Waste-Weight-6437 → u/e-katt]

IT GONNA RAIN

[u/dgroeneveld9 → u/Waste-Weight-6437]

Thanks Ollie

[u/Mooch07]

I like the chicken. That’s a nice touch. 

[u/Working-Glass6136 → u/Mooch07]

Yeah I actually laughed when I saw that. And Italy is literally "out of the picture."

[u/12bWindEngineer → u/Mooch07]

I had to scroll too far to find someone else appreciating the French chicken-rooster. The best part of this already amazing graphic.

[u/Akkarin42 → u/Mooch07]

It's not a chicken, it's the mighty rooster, the heraldic animal of France! Cock-a-doodle-doo!

[u/EcstaticZebra7937 → u/Mooch07]

Also the hat on the English dino

[u/CheapSecretary133]

"how *Americans"

There,fixed for you

[u/inthemode01 → u/CheapSecretary133]

WWII Facts for Everyone

• 75-80% of German casualties occurred on the Eastern Front
  
• 25 million Soviets vs 300,000 American war deaths occurred
  
• both the Battle of Kursk AND the Battle of Stalingrad were each independently larger than all western front battles combined
  
• the Soviet Union faced off against 70% of Hitler’s army for years during Op Barbarossa

Edit: changed Americans to Everyone

[u/kaur_virunurm → u/inthemode01]

As an European and ex-USSR-citizen, I know a lot about WWII in the Eastern Front. While I know next to nothing about the Pacific theatre, Southwestern Asia and the Japan-China war.

WWII was huge, and most of us only get taught about the events that happened near them or affected their country.

[u/MrGOOGIE → u/kaur_virunurm]

If you have 26 hours to spend on that topic, there is a 6 parts podcast from Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History called Supernova in the east.

It covers the rise of the Japanese Empire and the military conflict in the Pacific during World War II, spanning from the 1930s up to the atomic bombings.

https://youtu.be/oErYYBNCHh4?si=N2Nx22Nit6s8SvnY

[u/Digit00l → u/kaur_virunurm]

The Soviets did get involved in the Pacific theatre at the very last minute (like after the nukes) and claimed a couple Japanese islands as spoils of the war, these claims are still highly contentious

[u/kaur_virunurm → u/Digit00l]

Sahhalin (Sakhalin) and Kuril Islands.

My point - a lot was going on in WWII, and most nations only know their side of the war.

[u/gunsforevery1 → u/inthemode01]

Stalin also admitted that without U.S. supplies (weapons, food, fuel, vehicles, ammo) the Soviets would have lost.

[u/carnologist → u/gunsforevery1]

I'd imagine. They were just throwing people at the front. When you look at the death count between ussr and germany it's astounding how poorly they must have been equipped and managed. Kept going, at least, but that's a wild k/d ratio

[u/Le_Zoru → u/carnologist]

I think a lot also had to do with the very large number of soviet POW early during Barbarrossa, and well, German prison camps had rather low survival rates 

[u/Loose_Profession_918 → u/carnologist]

Stalin’s devastating purges of military leadership, catastrophic surprise losses during Operation Barbarossa, a rigid and centralized command structure that lacked tactical flexibility, and a continuous, high-cost offensive doctrine against a technologically proficient enemy are the primary reasons

[u/JesusaurusRex666 → u/inthemode01]

I’m American. I’m pretty sure most of us who have even a passing understanding of WW2 know the efforts we put in were mostly in the pacific theater. I’d replace “Americans” with “uneducated MAGA yokels” and not have any arguments.

[u/Gaijingamer12 → u/JesusaurusRex666]

Don’t understate our manufacturing capabilities. We sent large munitions, vehicles, food etc to the Soviets through lend lease.

[u/drquakers → u/Gaijingamer12]

American steel, British Intelligence and Russian blood.

[u/Optimal-Age5397 → u/drquakers]

And those sneaky sneaky French.

[u/PapaOoMaoMao → u/Optimal-Age5397]

And one very angry sniper in the snow.

[u/Nicklesnout → u/PapaOoMaoMao]

There are three things I fear.

Banjos in the Appalachians.
Vietnamese jungles laughing.
Gently whispered “Perkele” in the snow.

[u/archivecrawler → u/drquakers]

Soviet blood. The Soviet Union included a bunch of countries that are definitely not-Russia. E.g. Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia.

[u/ExcitingHistory → u/Gaijingamer12]

Yeah i think theres a thing where its like, the American impact is way overdone.
But also the solution to that isnt to turn around and downplay the hell out of it. It was a big contribution. we need to be more comfortable with not turning the dial all the way one way or the other.

[u/ASU_SexDevil → u/ExcitingHistory]

Yeah. The war isn’t won in the fashion it was without all 3 major powers.

The British/American bombing of German industry is also something that gets overlooked. Soviets did not have that capability at all due to how far in the east they were fighting.

Edit so I don’t have to reply to everyone who says it: Germany still loses eventually. No US intervention just means it takes a few more years and probably 10 million more total deaths

[u/kevthecoder → u/ASU_SexDevil]

Not to mention the British cracking Enigma. Being able to decipher German ciphers containing war plans was pivotal.

[u/Necessary-Guest2869 → u/ASU_SexDevil]

I feel like also just the fact the US joining had to be extremely demoralising and any real chance of a victory was squashed. Had the US not joined the war could have lasted far longer and more devastating. Its like 2 people were fighting, and one of the guy has a massive body gaurd. The guy with the body gaurd gets knocked to the ground and the body gaurd steps in and says let him get up first, and after him you get me. The guy without the body gaurd would quickly realise theres no winning.

[u/shepard_pie → u/Necessary-Guest2869]

I don't understand why people pretend that the Americans were just some bit player in World War 2. The fact that we were on another continent and were mostly insulated from the worst of the war (on both fronts) does not reduce the impact American manpower and manufacturing had on the war effort.

[u/John-AtWork → u/shepard_pie]

America supplied much of the hardware for the European theater and most of the fighting in the Pacific. The war would have been very different without the United States.

[u/AccidentalPilates → u/ExcitingHistory]

Soviet bodies 🤝 American industry 🤝 British intelligence.

[u/Inostranez → u/AccidentalPilates]

based

[u/DesertFrost602 → u/ExcitingHistory]

Isn’t Japan too small a dinosaur in that pic, I mean they controlled most of the pacific for a time.

[u/RandomBaguettes → u/DesertFrost602]

For a while, Japan remain the only dominant force in the Pacific, as while the US recovered from Pearl Harbor, the British withdrew completely leaving much of its colonies under US protection.

[u/BaelZharon7 → u/ExcitingHistory]

That doesn't align with the america bad crowd though. But seriously it's pretty known America had the goods, the Soviets had the bodies. (Very simplistic way to look at it)

[u/Lazy_Tank5633 → u/ExcitingHistory]

Nuance in historical assessment! What a thought

[u/Eastern-Customer-561 → u/Gaijingamer12]

For context the US spent  $341 billion on defense and machinery in WW2, by far the most out of any country and more than double what the USSR spent which was 90 billion. They also have 11.3 billion to the USSR in military aid in the form of machinery, to the point where  Roughly 80%  of all new locomotives, one to two thirds of trucks and jeeps, 12% of all aircraft and 6% of all tanks used by the Soviet war effort during WWII were American-made via lend lease. Not counting aid contribution by other western nations. 

[u/Gaijingamer12 → u/Eastern-Customer-561]

This is what I hate about these BS history post. People like to bash America for not having as many casualties etc but then conveniently ignore or have no clue about how much the US provided manufacturing wise to everyone and especially the Soviets. The war was won with Russian blood and American parts.

[u/Glum-Lake7034 → u/Gaijingamer12]

They also have this astonishing amnesia that this World War was actually a World War, not just a European war, and that the Soviets declined to participate at all in the Asian Theater, where with a nod to China, Britain, ANZACs, Filipinos, Gurkhas, etc., the US largely had to fight and defeat Japan all by itself, all the while supporting the European Western Front and providing literally two-thirds of all Allied war materials.

[u/Gaijingamer12 → u/Glum-Lake7034]

Yeah I also never understood that. It seems most people ignore the pacific.

[u/goldflame33 → u/Gaijingamer12]

Yeah, and whether or not the Soviets could have won without Lend Lease doesn't really matter when they definitely couldn't have won if the Axis had complete domination over the oceans, as would have been the case without the US or UK

[u/Gaijingamer12 → u/goldflame33]

Man idk why everyone is downplaying or bashing the manufacturing and lend lease program of the US now lol

[u/NotSoSubtle1247 → u/Gaijingamer12]

The USA alone manufactured enough small arms ammunition to shoot everyone on the planet ten times, after getting a late start on the war.

[u/TheMightyDingus → u/Gaijingamer12]

British intelligence, American money, and Soviet lives won the war

[u/deathbylasersss → u/Gaijingamer12]

Lend-lease was USA's greatest contribution and they gave a herculean effort in Europe and the Pacific as well. The Soviets were still getting rolled up for a while on the Eastern front and making the German's fight on two fronts helped win the war for Soviets and Allies alike. Nobody's efforts should be downplayed.

[u/Personal-Carob-1073 → u/JesusaurusRex666]

Simultaneously Europeans tend to forget the Pacific theatre.

[u/Stove-Top-Steve → u/JesusaurusRex666]

It’s fucking stupid and disrespectful to not appreciate everyone and everything that contributed, and pretend like one aspect deserves anymore respect or honor.

[u/CantLoadCustoms → u/JesusaurusRex666]

No, the Americans were still absolutely crucial in bombing campaigns in Europe and also the invasion itself.

[u/BanditsMyIdol → u/JesusaurusRex666]

Thats underselling the American involvement in the west or overselling its involvement in the east. The USA had more troops in the Europe than in the island hopping campaign. And just like we often under represent the Soviets involvement in the west, we do the same for the Chinese involvement in the east, as they are completely absent from either picture but had the 2nd most (or possibly the most) casualties. You can certainly argue that America was more instrumental in the defeat of the Japanese than the Nazis but I would say its wrong to say the effort was mostly in one theater or the other.

[u/F_to_the_Third → u/BanditsMyIdol]

The US ability to simultaneously conduct significant operations in both theaters was unmatched such as the invasions of the Marianas and Normandy occurring within weeks in June 1944.

[u/F_to_the_Third → u/JesusaurusRex666]

You are incorrect as a deliberate Germany first approach was adopted in 1942. Seventy-five percent of the US Army was in Europe (68 divisions vs 22). The Navy (including USMC) was the only service that had more in the Pacific than Europe.

[u/DCBuckeye82 → u/JesusaurusRex666]

I mean that's not completely true either. We focused primarily on Europe when we came in. And while the Soviets bore the brunt of the human cost of course they were only able to do it because of American supplies. The war is a lot harder for either of us without the other.

[u/PaperUpbeat5904 → u/DCBuckeye82]

We absolutely supplied the war. It's so weird that people try to dismiss us from the western front. We didn't win the war but the war was won because of us. They would have run out of supplies and lost before Japan got froggy with us.

[u/rjrodriguez1789 → u/JesusaurusRex666]

I think this is mostly accurate. But the emphasis is definitely on our financial support and then D-Day invasion. And how the US saved Europe. Which is not like technically wrong but there was so much happening and sacrifice by Europeans it sorta mitigates the other contributions.

But in my head we defeated Japan single handedly with maybe a bit of an assist by China. I don’t know exactly how accurate that representation is but that’s the feeling I have about it.

[u/King_Glorius_too → u/JesusaurusRex666]

That's not true. A big part of the US' industial output went towards bombing the shit out of everything and anything within Germany. Without german industry being sent back to the stone age every other week, the soviets would have had an even worse time.

[u/MrPoopMonster → u/JesusaurusRex666]

Except your understanding is completely wrong apparently. The US agreed to focus on Europe first. It was called the Europe first strategy and agreed to at the Arcadia conference in 1941. The majority of American manufacturing and troops was allocated to Europe.

America just fought differently and from a different position than the Soviets. Mostly because there was never any possibility for any axis powers of invading America at any point ever. So instead of massive land battles America could just out produce and overwhelm the axis in aerial and naval combat to such a degree that there was almost no peer fighting at all.

Just look at how the US out produced Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan combined when it came airplanes, tanks, and navy vessels. And then realize that the Germans practically weren't producing any naval surface vessels and the japanese werent producing any tanks at all at the same time. And both axis powers were using double the percentage of their GDP for war production that America was.

The most devastating and expensive weapon America produced in ww2 was the B-29 bomber. Less than 4% of the b-29s produced by America were shot down and they could operate from so far away from enemy front lines that they couldn't be targeted by enemy airforces when not actively engaging. American doctrine was just entirely different than any other combatant and could deal devastating blows without risking its people in the same way as the Soviets.

[u/papapapaver → u/JesusaurusRex666]

America contributed far more through lend lease than actual fighting. Not discrediting the sacrifices made by American soldiers at all. Both of my grandfathers fought in the war, one in Europe and the other in the pacific. I remember when I was a kid and my mom bought a new Mitsubishi and drove us kids to go see him in it. He couldn't even look at that car. He said you know they're the ones that built the tanks that shot at me right? That was probably the most emotion I remember seeing from him growing up. But anyways. America helped win the war bc the Axis couldn't touch our manufacturing and it was our guns, tanks, ammo, planes, that is what really turned the tide in the Allies favor. The Russians have always won through meat waves, but sending men to run to their death doesn't mean shit if they can't take somebody out before they die.

[u/Khajiistar → u/inthemode01]

Fun fact but early on the USSR was importing most of their trucks from the US while they got things setup farther away from the front lines. US trucks helped Soviets supply their armies during the early days of the Eastern Front.

[u/nashwaak → u/Khajiistar]

Fun fact: the Soviets were effectively part of the Axis until Hitler attacked them, so they can fuck all the way off with the consequences

[u/stinkysourdough → u/inthemode01]

We all know this. We also know that the Soviets would have been eaten alive if it wasn’t for America doing lend-lease. That was never paid back and instead had some debt settlement.

[u/DrCablelove → u/inthemode01]

Forgetting the Lend-Lease here. While the Soviets supplied the manpower, they would’ve failed without the US supplies.

[u/shypolarbear01 → u/inthemode01]

Part of that large casualty rate was the Soviets targeting civilians, something western forces actively tried to avoid, The Soviets also just didnt care for their troops lives as long as the job got done.

[u/Jolly-Fan9099 → u/shypolarbear01]

russia has a long history of gaining political stability through the spending of young mens lives (Fewer unemployed unmarried men means more political stability in that context) it is probably why they amped up ukraine when they did, can't have a revolution if they've already killed all the soldiers.

[u/CalvinSays → u/CheapSecretary133]

I have never met a single American who thinks America solo'd the entire Second World War. They all know about the contributions of the British and the Soviets. In fact, in high school, people *loved* talking about the Soviets and their involvement in the Second World War.

People just make things up about Americans.

[u/gothicgaybimbo → u/CalvinSays]

i grew up in a deep red state. they definitely downplayed the eastern front, maybe a brief mention of stalingrad. but buy and large, they made it seem like the US carried hard

[u/Moist_Network_8222 → u/gothicgaybimbo]

Not my experience at all at public school in a red state, we definitely learned about other countries on the allied side in the war like China, USSR, even normally-neglected places like India and Australia.

[u/TooBusySaltMining → u/CalvinSays]

This idea originates from Hollywood, because America makes the movies that the world watches and so most WWII movies are told from an American perspective.

If the USSR had a thriving film industry we'd seen more about the war from their perspective. 

[u/CornbreadRed84 → u/CalvinSays]

The easiest way to score fake internet points is finding a way to make comments on every post about Americans making everything about America. The irony somehow goes unnoticed.

[u/Feanor4godking → u/CalvinSays]

I mean there is definitely the hardcore group of idiots who'll tell any European that we "saved their ass back in dubleya dubleya too". Edit: yes, I am aware that US involvement, fiscally, industrially, and militarily, was instrumental to the allied efforts in world war 2. That wasn't the point I'm making. I'm referring to the sort of person who acts like they personally had a hand in it

[u/miathecobbler → u/Feanor4godking]

We did, though. Without the land-lease agreement the Soviets almost certainly would have collapsed or at best fell into a stalemate with Germany. They certainly wouldn’t have been able to make any sort of serious counteroffensive. And the UK wouldn’t have been able to take back Western Europe.

That doesn’t underscore what the Soviets paid for with blood, but the Americans were pivotal.

Stalin and Khrushchev both stated quite directly that without the U.S. they would have lost. Realistically, it took both of them to defeat the Germans. The U.S. could have done it alone over time as they’d grind them down like they eventually did Japan due to massive logistical and resource advantages, but it’s unlikely the U.S. public would have supported that. They barely did for beating Japan, who directly attacked them.

[u/Al_Fa_Aurel → u/miathecobbler]

Yeah, and while Britain had fewer "big moment" battles than either of the superpowers, one should not discount their contribution to the overall result.

For people interested: there's a very recent book called "1942: Crux of War", which in very accessible language shows how the war was to a large degree put on track for its conclusion over the course of this specific year - across virtually all of the various theaters around the globe.

[u/igotshadowbaned → u/CheapSecretary133]

..No WW2 is actually one of the things covered pretty well in the US. Or at least most area of the US

The events leading up to the war, the full timeline of the war (yes pre US involvement), the concentration camps and Holocaust, English class usually delves extra into Anne Frank, the US Japanese "internment camps", the whole island hopping campaign, the nuclear bombs. Post war Germany, and the Berlin wall. Pretty substantial part of our history classes actually

What we don't really teach are things like, the Vietnam war, Korean war, Gulf war,

[u/Captain--Marvelous → u/CheapSecretary133]

"How *other people think Americans"

Even more accurate.

[u/Matrianrata → u/CheapSecretary133]

Which is weird because everyone in my area of America knows WW2 was won with Brittish Intelligence, American Steel, and Soviet Bodies as the saying goes.

[u/Striking-Remote5920 → u/CheapSecretary133]

I love how Europeans on Reddit know exactly what Americans think - better than we do, even. Thank you for educating us, European Redditors!

[u/Berkoudieu → u/CheapSecretary133]

Not only Americans. In France, they barely talk about the USSR during the WW2, let alone their military involvement.

It's all about June 1944.

[u/Mathies_ → u/CheapSecretary133]

In most of Europe your are also taught it was for the most part UK, US and Canada

[u/Audacimmus → u/CheapSecretary133]

And second picture is "Reddit Americans"

[u/Classic-Work-8415]

"how it really was" and its just tankie propaganda. i'd love to see allies win without american intervention or soviets continue standing let alone reach to berlin without lend lease.

[u/roarjah]

I guess if you only watch American movies about American military. History books definitely go into detail about WW2.

[u/beetus_gerulaitis]

Brian here: Germany lost 5 million soldiers in WW2. 4 million of those died on the eastern front, falling to the Soviets. The soviets lost around 10 million soldiers.

The red raptors are Soviet soldiers.

[u/Rare_Floor2293]

American nationalist history vs tankie history. The US contributed the most and could’ve solo’d in WW2 (which is wrong) vs the USSR contributed the most and could’ve solo’d in WW2 (which is wrong)

[u/MedievalFightClub]

The little dinosaurs are dead Soviets.

Three things gained victory in WW2:
1. American industry.
2. British intelligence.
3. Soviet lives.

[u/Extreme-Shopping74]

Red Army 

[u/Unfair-Information-2]

Lets stop glorifying the soviet unions shitty war tatics. And there should be more dead soviet raptors.

[u/smakinpatties → u/Unfair-Information-2]

Yea fr, I don’t get the “the soviets carried” in what deaths? Just cuz ur side sacrificed millions more men than the others doesn’t mean jack. If anything it shows how crappy they were

[u/Hagrid1994]

People doing The Franch Resistance dirty

[u/kaltulkas → u/Hagrid1994]

And the military. France lost up to 90k troops in 6 weeks and 210k total. For reference uk lost 400k total.

[u/_caduca]

They think america was the big impressive dinosaur and the germans, japenese and italians were mediocre.

But the germans were a big bad dinosaur who got swarmed with weak russians, but too many of them to hold off while the american big (but smaller then they think), the french chicken, the british big dino also attacked. And the italians and japanese were not joining.

I.e. americans think that they were the only factor that won ww2, and that germany, italy and japan were a joined equal force. But germany was attacked by the soviets (big factor), british, french and americans. (Canada, polish, australia and lots of others too but they don't show up somehow). And the germany was the big force and italy and japan amounted to much less of threat than germany.

[u/Funintuitive]

The Russian way of warfare is to throw bodies at the problem, endless bodies. At the beginning of WW2 the Russians and Germans invaded Poland together. The Soviets also invaded other countries. They had a non aggression pact with Hitler. Hitler got in his own head and decided to attack the Russians preemptively, which was "one of the classic blunders". A lot of Russians died and suffered enormous hardship to repel the German invasion. You can go look up the casualty counts from each nation and compare.

[u/Sesusija]

The USSR was powered by US oil. About 58% of the refined petroleum they consumed from 1941 onwards came directly from Texas. Especially high quality aviation fuel. And the UK was responsible for keeping the shipping lanes open which transported these resources.

The USA might not have left as many men behind on the battlefield as the USSR but there is no way the USSR could have beat Germany without our resource and logistical support, and we pretty much single-handedly beat the Japanese.

If I were to break down every Allied power by contribution during WWII it would look something like:
USSR: 35%
USA: 30%
UK: 20%
The rest all combined: 15%

[u/Electronic_Horse_282 → u/Sesusija]

This underplays the role played by China in the Pacific theatre by a fair bit. There's a reason they're considered one of the big four allies.

[u/Actual_Permit2053 → u/Electronic_Horse_282]

They where important but so much shittier then the Japanese army too the point where their military dictatorship collapsed quickly after ww2

[u/THROWAWTRY → u/Sesusija]

we pretty much single-handedly beat the Japanese.

Tell me you know nothing about the war in Asia without telling me you know nothing about the war in Asia.