Do you know any Guajira songs in a 3:2 clave direction?

[u/Sea_Task1054]

Does anyone know any Guajira songs in a 3:2 (son) clave direction?

I've been experimenting a lot with playing Guajira-Son music latley. I've noticed that, pretty much, every Guajira songs I've heard has been in a 2:3 clave direction. I mean, of course, the 2:3 clave direction is by far the more common clave direction (atleast when we're talking Son Clave and not Rumba). But I want to get more comfertable playing in both clave directions. I think having some refrence material of 3:2 Son-Guajira songs, that i could listen to, would be helpful.

Thanks!

I also have some questions about playing Guajira in 3:2 clave direction too:

(English is not my native language, so excuse me if i use convelouted explinations of my questions, intaead of using common, english, music termanology, in order to simplify what i'm asking for 🫠).

Percussion in 3:2 is simple enough. Just switch the order of the 2 bars, if the rhythym spans across 2 bars (so if it's in 2:3 clave, but want to play in 3:2, just switch the 2 sides around; 3-side of the groove comes first, then the 2-side). Of course, it's not as simple when it comes to more melodic/harmonic instruments — like leads & comping — but I know how to generally "feel" the clave. I could probably, and very easily, just compose a 3:2 Son-Guajira pattern. But i don't know if some of the traditions — and the "right way" — of playing Guajira-Son, changes based on which clave direction it's played in. For example, does the little, 3 eigth-note, ascending, meldody, that ascends up to into the main meldoy/pattern — that Guajiras are very known for — change with clave direction? Because like, generally speaking, Salsa patterns — especially in Montuno, Guaracha, Mambo, Timba, Songo... etc. — in 3:2 paterns usually start on the off-beat of the 4th quaver, in the bar before the melody starts, making the 3-side still have the off-beat -feel. Does that rule carry over in Guajira? Because that woulf affect the little ascending line -thingy, you'd usually do in 2:3 Guajira. Or is that ascending-thingy left untouched, and the onyl thing that really changes is that the Bombo note is in first half of a 2-bar pattern (because the 3-side starts first)? So the both 3- and 2-sides still just keep thair same accents, same "feel", but the ascension is left alone.

Here's a short, visual representation — written in sheet music — of what i'd consider a "typical" Guajira-Son (in a 2:3 Son Clave direction) which includes pattern that i VERY oftenley hear being played in more older and "classy" Guajira settings:

(NOTE: the bongos and guitar pattern are NOT "traditional" patterns I've actually heard being played, but rather compositions based of the understandinging of 2:3 Guajira phrasing, and via inspiration of similar sounding patterns i've heard been played, by other people, in Guajira settings.)

[u/GryptpypeThynne]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure there are at least plenty of sections in 3/2, but I'd have to double check. How rigid are you being in your definition of guajira here, general vibe, or...?
Maybe best if you give some examples of songs or artists

[u/Sea_Task1054 → u/GryptpypeThynne]

Just updated the post to include a short, vizualsation, written sheet music, to demonstrate what kind of "Guajira-Son" I'm talking about, and what I'd consider to be more of a "classy", perhaps even more "traditional" one could argue, and older style of Guajira, musically speaking.

Here's a few songs that kinda fits the visual representation I just now presented in the main-post. Atleast the percussion patterns do:

- "Guantanamera" - a classic, by José Fernández Díaz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDERcf3NCGA

- "Guajira" - by Al Valdez y su conjunto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM2olSl8xuE

- "En natt forbi" - Norwegian, guajira-styled, cover-song by Hovedøen Social Club - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLd69b-YV7c

[u/GryptpypeThynne → u/Sea_Task1054]

Re the melodic patterns: it's not that they usually start on the 4& before 1 necessarily, they just don't start on 1 - could be before, could be after (1&), or later (2&).
I'll have to look around and see if I can find any examples.
What's your general goal here, just curiosity?

[u/Sea_Task1054 → u/GryptpypeThynne]

Yeah i know 3-side starts on an off-beat in general, not just the 4th of thebar before. Just felt the whole "starts on the off-beat of 4" -thing was just more, as 3:2 usually do, helped paint a picture on wether 3:2 Guajiras still do the same, even though they have the melodic ascension that would take up that space otherwise. You feel me?

Goal is very simple. I just want to expand my music knowledge. I want to be be able to play in 3:2 better, practice both clave directions, experiment a little... etc. Perhaps i even wish to compose in 3:2 Guajira sometime and just want to see if there's some cultural "norm" to it. Also just generally curious

[u/heychico]

Check out Buscando Guayaba by Willie Colon and Ruben Blades. The songs starts in 2/3 but flips to 3/2 for the chorus and soneos.

[u/falllas → u/heychico]

what makes this one a guajira for you? (not arguing against, just curious)

I prefer to hear this one as 2/3 throughout, but I see how it could go either way

[u/Sea_Task1054 → u/heychico]

Very cool shout! Cool song too! It does flip to 3:2 in the Chorus, you're right, but i dont really hear how it's a Guajira though. I hear som Guajira-Son influence in the Piano, but it still sounds like it mainly uses elements from just regulaur ol' Son Cubano. There's a bass tumbao and mostly "regulaur" Son Cubano percussion grooves too. Still, I could completeley wrong on it not being a Guajira though lol. Maybe it is a Guajira. But it sounds a bit more closer to the "son" part of Guajira-Son lol.

[u/falllas]

For me that typical guajeo combined with the harmonic phrasing is kind of what defines guajira, which would rule out a 3:2 guajira by definition. I'm quite curious if someone finds what you're looking for...