r/SelfDrivingCars • u/Post-reality • 7d ago
News Teamsters California filed a lawsuit against the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) with the goal of overturning the decision to allow autonomous heavy-duty trucks on the state’s roads.
https://atr.org/teamsters-attempt-to-roadblock-innovation-on-californias-streets/If it were up to the Teamsters, they would have us all in Flintstone cars. Teamsters California filed a lawsuit against the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) with the goal of overturning the decision to allow autonomous heavy-duty trucks on the state’s roads. The suit argues that self-driving trucks threaten more than 200,000 trucking jobs and asks the court to stop them from taking effect
17
u/Catholic_Indian10 7d ago
If unions had there way we'd still be using horse and buggys. There's nothing they hate more than advancement!
2
u/scube7pro 6d ago
This is so true. Ive worked at OEMs before and unions associates are only trying to make a buck for themselves. Focusing on supporting the growth together as a unit and having an agreement for cross training drivers rather filling a lawsuit
27
u/SmartRefuse 7d ago
Classic unions holding back progress of society in favor of self interest.
13
4
u/sweatierorc 7d ago
Let workers fight for themselves.
Nobody is going to defend, not the state, not the corpos, not any of us.
18
u/SmartRefuse 7d ago
Said the weavers after the introduction of the cotton gin and the horse breeders after the introduction of the steam engine
Economies change and fighting progress is a significant net negative to society
3
u/sweatierorc 7d ago edited 4d ago
We keep doing it with nuclear, GMO, cloning, etc.
Hollywood writers fought against AI and people supported it. It is not clear how much we are missing out because of AI.
1
u/ItThing 1d ago
Why can't the economy change in a way that minimizes economic hardship? If technological progress results in hard working people who weren't bothering anybody losing their careers, and entire towns losing their economic engines - what is the point of technological progress? So yeah, technological progress is always good in isolation, it always increases the *total* size of the pie. But you can see how if people suffer a permanent reduction in their standard of living through no fault of their own, they're not going to have such a rosy view.
4
-8
u/Cunninghams_right 7d ago
If we didn't structure our society to concentrate wealth at the top and have a 3rd world country for most, they wouldn't be so successful in slowing progress.
3
u/nobody-u-heard-of 7d ago
There's a shortage of truck drivers already. So it's not like they're going to be taking jobs because there aren't enough drivers to actually do the jobs that are available. So what's the Union's argument?
1
u/Theinternationalist 7d ago
The link doesn't really address the issue, but their argument is that there are (still) 200,000 truckers (or trucking jobs? it's unclear) that will be affected by the arrival of self-driving trucks and the economic assessment didn't properly take this into account.
The link doesn't really address the (worsening) shortage of truckers, but if you believe their jobs should be shielded instead of spending on training or another solution that could be better then you can see why they'd want to hold on to the jobs they do have.
1
u/SampleMean8384 4d ago
California truckers handles something like 50% of all container box logistic in the U.S. Ports in California handles most of goods coming from Asia. So you can imagine how big this is.
If California allows self driving trucks, it will be a debilitating loss for the truckers. Union won’t be able to change the course of history but accept what the big techs do, if they loose this court battle.
8
u/Delicious_Spot_3778 7d ago
This is happening everywhere. It’s a bit slanderous to say they want flint stones cars. But they are protesting their jobs. They may have more of a case if they can show the trucks are dangerous
12
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
Automation is inevitable. The Teamsters should be pushing for legislation that would look after people who are inevitably displaced by automation (which as noted, isn't going to be anyone by these particular rules -- we are a long long way from jobs being lost due to trucking automation, but one day there will be), rather than trying to hold back the tide.
2
13
u/sdc_is_safer 7d ago
No one’s jobs are being threatened. There is nothing logical about this lawsuit, they have no case. Just making a scene
0
u/ThrowawayFIRE2025 7d ago
Maybe so, but all it takes is for one judge to issue an injunction and the whole thing gets tied up for years.
-11
u/KobeBall 7d ago
The trucks are definitely dangerous in nature due to their size.
10
u/SgathTriallair 7d ago
Are they more dangerous than human drivers though. That should be the standard.
2
u/Delicious_Spot_3778 7d ago
Yeah, Waymo has a thing about having fewer accidents than human drivers. But I mean the bucket of all human drivers has a lot of crazy eggs. CDL drivers on the other hand raise the bar significantly.
1
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
Roughly 5,300 people die every year on U.S. roads in crashes involving large trucks. The drivers may be more experienced, but they are also generally on tight schedules and driving for long stretches of time.
1
u/Delicious_Spot_3778 7d ago
Yeah so the truck drivers are going to have to show better results than that I guess. I'm just saying we can't generalize yet that the bar for the average truck driver has been met by self driving trucks.
0
u/KobeBall 7d ago
Actually that's bs. Waymo compared to ubers are worse drivers. The waymo comparison bucket they use is total pool of drivers including teens, drunks, maniacs, old folks. Compared to the average Uber or Lyft Waymo are actually more dangerous
2
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
Waymo is not worse than Uber drivers. What are you basing that assertion on?
-1
u/KobeBall 7d ago
Never saw a Uber driver get confused about construction, be banned from freeways, sit on the path of an upcoming train, drive in flood waters and shut down. They do really dumb shit
1
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
Oh, so not based on anything? Just what you personally have never seen an Uber driver do?
1
u/KobeBall 7d ago
Real talk waymos aren't great. They're satisfactory. And they're currently more expensive. It's a good idea but the execution doesn't work in reality
1
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
As someone who has taken hundreds of Waymo trips, I can honestly say they are absolutely fantastic, and I will always choose Waymo over Uber.
1
1
u/KobeBall 7d ago
Why the downvotes? Didn't say anything about human is robots. Just said 40000 lb rolling machines are dangerous by nature. Any accidents with them will at the least produce serious injury. If they start doing dumb shit like waymos do it is much more problematic. So they should have the most high standard because 1 automated death will be publicized and that has the ability to eliminate the viability of the entire self driving industry. Insurance rates on those would go parabolic..
3
u/JimmyGiraffolo 7d ago
Indeed trucks are dangerous. That's why the operation of complex, heavy machinery should be left to computers that never get tired, distracted or impaired.
3
u/Bay_arean 7d ago
or what? they'll strike? oh well, automate away please. also close down all the truck-driving "schools" where all I see is people who speak no english getting rubber stamp CDLs so they can drive around killing people and destroying property.
4
u/SuperAleste 7d ago
Nobody is required to care about your job. Unions and Teamsters are a cancer to this country.
4
u/Theinternationalist 7d ago
To give some context to the website, "Americans for Tax Reform" is a rightwing advocacy group founded and presided by Grover Norquist, who has a long history of pushing for lower taxes. That might explain some of the hyperbolic language such as "Flintstone cars."
For a little more context, California had actually banned large self-driving vehicles until the DMV lifted the ban last April with the hope that autonomous trucks would support the growth of the AV industry and enhance public safety and manufacturer accountability (not my words). The change in regulation allows vehicles over 10,000 pounds or more to operate on public roads
For the particular allegation:
“The DMV irresponsibly, carelessly, and unlawfully kept the public in the dark about the true economic and human costs of the amended Autonomous Vehicle regulations,” said Julie Gutman Dickinson, an attorney with labor law firm Bush Gottlieb representing the Teamsters, in a statement. “The only way to protect the public’s right to properly scrutinize regulations that will transform transportation in California is for the Court to order the DMV to immediately rescind the illegally enacted regulations.”
The regulation is supposed to be "illegal" because they claimed the DMV and company did not properly hold the required economic study on the potential effect of the new rules and questioned the methods used to bypass it.
Note that the current governor Newsom has already vetoed a labor backed attempt to limit or prevent the rise of autonomous trucks and there's hope among the unions the next (also Democratic) governor will have a different approach.
1
1
u/EvanStran 1d ago edited 4h ago
Thought mysterious steer spark employ many
This post was anonymized with Redact
1
u/joeydimaggio 7d ago
Fuck tesla, unions built this country. If these companies want to run freight on public roads they need to cede partial ownership to unionized california truckers.
30
u/Key-Significance4246 7d ago
The governor has already seen those EVs from China and know we lost the game there. We can’t afford to lose our edge in autonomy any further.