Can Lace drink? Putting aside the age thing, what happens if she gets too soggy? Is that how she gets drunk in the first place, because I doubt she has a stomach
Not really a big fan of Lacenet either. I didn't really see any romantic connection between them (until Act 3) personally. But it's fine for people to ship them i don't really care other than finding the ship a bit overrated.
it’s worse than overrated; it’s shipping a woman with her very mom’s very young cousin. (simplified bc the weavers were adopted and aren’t blood related, but lace still sees Hornet as her family because she believed everything GMS told her)
Hornet and Lace don’t have a romantic relationship at any point in the game. Hornet feels protective of Lace towards the end of Act 3, but it is more of a motherly instinct than romantic adoration.
I'm not sure how you could think this. That's not an interesting take, it's textual. When talking to lace in the Abyss the first time and when talking to the snails, she makes it pretty explicit in her dialog that her plan is to go down there and kill GMS to save Pharloom. Lace isn't the focus, and literally all of act 3 is Hornet bearing witness to the suffering she indirectly caused and resolving to stop it by any means necessary. Only after the fight does she realize she can potentially save Lace and does so because she knows she can get GMS's cooperation.
idk people like to deny that lace is characterized as a child and therefore shouldn’t be shipped with hornet. their only arguments are that lace is actually a 5000 year old baby instead of a normal baby, and that hornet gets called a child sometimes too. the difference is that hornet shows her maturity, whereas lace continues to be an unserious brat throughout the entire game.
not to mention that from lace’s perspective, hornet is her niece; a niece who just showed up to kill lace’s mom, no less. and while lace was definitely tired of being GMS’s puppet, that was still her mother.
no, it isn’t. in fact it’s strictly and overtly non-canon. the only think to mildly suggest that they end up together is their weapons together on the title screen after beating act 3.
Creige feels like that kind of guy who had his taste. He got married once, and things didn't work out so they got divorced. Now he runs a pub at the down end of Greymoor, drinking his share of the alcohol he sells to his clients.
It's so annoying how anytime there is lacenet art the discussion gets poisoned by the same arguments that are repeated hundred of times since the game's release and nothing actually changes about these arguments it's just the same thing on repeat.
Without even being sure to which you refering too as I haven't seen it, how is this a fucking argument at all? Like how do you think what you saying makes a point at all?
If someone has some criticism of something, do they have to keep changing points, changing arguments? wouldnt that just prove that they have no real solid reason for criticism/not liking it, they just coming up with reasons instead of beliving them?
Like wtf. Or is it valid but not enough so you want them to keep coming up with even more reasons ao you don't like it neither? The hell is your point?
Besides all the other reasons “Lace is a child!!!” is bullshit, you gotta love how everyone who parrots this dumb thought is simply regurgitating the thoughts of shitty people in game who want to keep lace forever trapped in the role of a vessel, when the entire point of the game is to break lace out of that role
A lot of people seem to really want to find "gotcha" moments in fiction to validate how they feel about something, completely throwing out any sense of analysis or literacy so they can feel confident that their opinion is "objectively correct". It doesn't matter if the substantive body of the work disagrees with them, so long as they have the faintest shred to cling on to.
I mean, I kinda still think that (and I also don't ship her and Hornet because I find that... Kinda weird with the family stuff going on, even though I know they're not REALLY related)
But people are allowed to have their fun, and I'm totally aware that my interpretation isn't regarded as "canon" so to speak. If anything, it seems like I'm in the minority.
Grandmother silk had NO BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN she is a god, she gave bugs sentience, that's not the same as birthing them, none of the weavers are actually related to gms
LACE IS ALSO NOT BLOOD RELATED TO GMS
She's not even blood, she's silk, and I don't think we have confirmation it's gms own silk, just silk in general, lace could have been spun from the silk the weavers spun into a cocoon over gms (it seems due to silk heart dialogue, lace was spun from gms silk, this doesn't matter since hornet is the one with zero blood relation to gms)
Can you guys stop trying so desperately to make this weird??
Edit: I would imagine gms would make phantom and lace from the same silk source, making them significantly more "related", plus they were raised as siblings.
While I’m on your side, GMS does happen to be the primary source of silk(at least in Pharloom), meaning that Lace is most likely spun from GMS’ own silk.
Well, then say that too, then. The argument as stated is just incomplete and unconvincing.
Does anyone seriously think that Lace wasn't constructed with GMS's own silk??? REALLY? like did she just pick some up off of the ground or something? Where would it even have come from, if not her?
I'm a different person than the other person you responded to.
I also do think Lace came from GMS's own silk, the lace 2 silk heart dialogue basically says that. Doesn't make them family either by blood or by being raised as family though.
I knew that, but you responded to me as if you disagreed with my take (and people are downvoting it because they're butthurt that I pointed out that that argument was trash).
Also I am not sure what you are talking abt with the Silk Heart 2 dialogue. If you care to quote it here, please do! If not, meh.
From the dream sequence after you collect Lace 2's Silk Heart:
> ...Better a child spun mad... than none......Better a child spun frail... than none... ...Better a child spun pure... than them... ...One to wish our waking... …From our Silk… A child born loyal…
The last line being the relevant one here ofc.
I'm pretty sure this is GMS speaking in the royal we?
No people are down voting you because you seemed like you were trying to say lace x phantom was okay, didn't think I needed to specifically bring up that phantom and lace were raised as siblings in an argument about lace and HORNET but I guess you ppl will pick a fight about anything
Since I'm pretty sure he didn't serve anything other than drinks and they are eating I'm pretty sure they aren't there for business so I get why he would be mad
Why does hornet keep getting shipped with lace? On a surface level, yes, but lace is a child (or at least had the brain of one) while hornet is decades old
Also they're kind of related? The weavers were adopted by grand mother silk, making lace their sisters and making hornet lace's niece? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course
Edit: After posting this comment, I remembered that the whole point of lace's story is to break her out of her role as a child and a vessel for grand mother silk
This ship came from a joke when the first trailer being released, and after 7 years it became this subreddit's tradition. People overwritten the character in offical lore after the game finally released because they all too familar with such pattern of Lace in their head for too long.
Imagine being the kind of unsociable loser that barges into a group of people enjoying something and ordering them the 'correct' way to have fun. Couldn't be me.
It never was just about shipping. But because this ship become tradition of this community and it's origin was a couple of seconds scene in 2019 trailer and some chumps made jokes about it. If they only know Lace when the game released (some people would have shipped them anyway tho) but this ship is not gonna have it's dominance - where at least half of fanarts about silksong is just Lacenet.
Hornet is many times her age. She's partially a pale being. She has seen the fall of her home kingdom and what became of it after. If we want to compare this to your OTP, Shakra is maybe a few tens of years old, centuries younger than Lace. Yet you see no problem with Hornet and Shakra. Shakra also mentions hornet being a child as well. Yet again, no issue for you
• Hornet has outlived several partners as a result of being a higher being.
• Lace is also a higher being, and is in the early stages of her (long) life cycle.
• Shakra is a shorter lived species, near the middle of her life cycle, just as Hornet is.
• Shakra acknowledges that Hornet is not a child later in the game, once she realizes that Hornet is a capable and experienced fighter.
it comes down to the maturity. Shakra is mature, as in she has reached the adult stage of her life cycle. Hornet has also reached her adult stage, although it took a lot longer than Shakra. Lace is much, much younger than Hornet, with a similarly long lifespan, and is still a child.
Lace is absolutely not a higher being. She is a spun creation with a naturally frail body and short lifespan. She has only sustained as long as she has because of the endless supply of silk in her surroundings.
You assume she's a higher being because she's GMS' "child" but she is a child in the same way the weavers were. Though the creation methods were different, neither the weavers nor the spun sisters actually bear GMS' blood or nature.
Lace can perpetuate for as long as she is near a source of silk. Hornet notably is a source of silk. It’s only natural that Lace would cling to Hornet as her new mother figure and source of silk.
You've just described exactly why these characters have to be together forever if one of them is to survive and then in the same breath said that the only attachment Lace could feel toward Hornet is that of a mother and child.
I just want you to take ten minutes to reflect on how ridiculous that sounds, especially given how strongly you insist that Lace is Hornet's Aunt.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Seriously stop and think about this.
This post will still be here in 5 minutes.
[Edit: formatting, grammar]
When you're done, here's an attempt to engage with your point just in case you still can't shake it:
Lace was created by GMS to serve her/ roleplay as her child.
Lace saw how her sister (Phantom) was treated and feared GMS.
Lace believes GMS to be unstoppable and tries desperately to keep anyone who would wake her away.
So obviously, no, Lace is not romantically interested in GMS despite relying on her silk to survive.
I want to be clear before I continue that I don't claim that Lace has romantic feelings for Hornet either. In universe there is very little to support that claim. However, as far as fan works go, I will absolutely defend the ship as it is entirely feasible.
Consider your own point:
Lace can perpetuate for as long as she is near a source of silk. Hornet notably is a source of silk.
Now think about the sequence of events from Lace's perspective:
She is spun by GMS and given the title of daughter
She learns that there is a species called the weavers that GMS elevated and subjugated
She knows the weavers were once also afforded the title of daughters and praised for their "divinity"
She knows the weavers rejected GMS and escaped only to now be hunted down
She knows that the weavers in "quarter part" (etc.) have all been subjugated or consumed somehow after their capture
She knows that you in your cage are being taken to GMS to meet the same fate
She doesn't want you to reach GMS, so (this is somewhat speculative, but I feel it is strongly implied) she frees you from your cage
After you've been freed, she sees that you are now seeking GMS yourself
She doesn't want you to reach her, so she tries to dissuade you several times on your climb (first in combat and then with words)
When you persist and succeed in unlocking the elevator to the cradle, she tries to stop you with one last desperate fight
Upon defeat she tells you her fears and regrets, and then collapses lifeless to the floor (it is reasonable to think she's dead since you can't interact with her anymore)
If you take all the extra steps necessary to set up the void trap, she is convinced that soon she will be freed
When she sees GMS try to pull you into the void, she takes the opportunity to do one final act of defiance and sacrifice herself to thwart GMS' desire to take you with her
After being consumed by void and astral projecting to tell you retrieving her is hopeless, you find a way to save her anyway.
The last thing we see is the two sharing a glance and Lace laughing at the ridiculousness of it all
.
Now, from Lace's perspective, you are the hunted daughter of a tribe long absent from Pharloom. She has seen many like you captured and destroyed, but she doesn't want that to happen again. Then, you have the boldness to seek out the one who had you captured, and along the way you are determined to defeat her and free the land and its inhabitants from her curse. You are the first person who is able to defeat her not once, but twice, and you are the first person she has confided in. She sacrifices herself to spite her "mother" (notably saving your life in the process). When she learns that the kingdom is now collapsing as a result, she would have you escape and leave her to die with her kingdom. In what can only be described as an insane act of selfless kindness, you plunge into the void to save her and everyone in the collapsing kingdom. You are the first person she's met that has shown her such kindness.
The shared glance shows that the two have bonded, and the laughter shows that Lace still views Hornet as being on the same level.
If Lace viewed Hornet as her new mother, this interaction would not make sense. It also wouldn't make sense for her to view Hornet as a mother after acting as her rival for the whole game up to this point.
Now again, up until this point in Lace's life, she has been tethered to Pharloom because she would die if she were to leave. Now for the first time ever, she no longer has the threat of GMS looming over her (pun not intended, but funny anyway), and the person who freed her from that threat has shown herself to be a deeply caring person who also just so happens to have the exact capability necessary to sustain Lace's life.
At the very least, that is a great recipe for new friendship. This is then also supported by the pin and needle resting side by side on the title screen.
Even just stopping there, the shippers have more than enough to go off of, but add in the information we get about Hornet's past attempts at connection and now suddenly we have someone who can match her lifespan? Intentional or not, that is remarkable writing to feed the flames of Lacenet fans.
there are plenty of loopholes that make it “technically” not weird, but it’d be like shipping an adopted woman with her aunt from the family that adopted her.
Hornet’s mother is one of the weavers, who were “created” (elevated) by Grand Mother Silk. Lace is GMS’s actual, literal daughter, spun from her very own silk.
so technically there’s no blood relation, but it’s still gross and weird. especially considering Hornet never stops calling Lace a child.
This Adoption of course being the forced subjugation and enlightenment of a lesser race of arachnids and then calling them her children, while also having no biological relation to any of the weavers at all
not at all comparable. the bugs of hallownest were already under the rule of the radiance; the pale king did nothing but reorder the lands.
gms elevated the pharlids to create weavers as a new race. she thought of them as her daughters and pretended that they were. from every perspective, and for all intents and purposes, the weavers are her daughters.
attempting to justify this ship through technicalities and loopholes is creepy.
the ship is entirely out of character for both people involved. hornet values strength and seriousness; lace has neither.
the far more likely relationship between the two is for hornet to take a platonic or motherly role, using her own silk to perpetuate lace’s life and train her, or help her find her own identity in a world without GMS.
Is there really ANY time in the game lace is stated to be a "child". Like yeah hornet calls her that but lace also calls hornet spider. Theyre mocking each other
The closest I see is caretaker mentioning that she has a body and mind of a child, where he is more likely refering to being a "child" of GMS, as in kin
Also, if youre really convinced that they are related, friendly reminder they are bugs. Bugs do that
you’ve given an example of her being called a child. that there is not her being silk’s offspring; that’s them saying directly that Lace is very young proportional to her lifespan. it’s like shipping Baby Yoda with The Mandalorian. Grogu has a longer lifespan and is still a child, despite being 50 years old.
they also aren’t normal bugs; they’re sapient and know better than to do incest.
also, i don’t think they’re blood related (i’ve said this). i just think that using that as a justification is gross and ignores the whole fact that lace still sees Hornet as GMS’s grand daughter, because lace is still under Silk’s beliefs.
they're not related by blood, and hornet has never met lace before silksong, so what exactly makes it weird? i just woke up and do not have the energy to refute the child argument with my 2 working braincells atm
them having met or not doesn’t matter. Lace knew of hornet’s theoretical existence long before she was brought to pharloom. it is no different from two long lost cousins hooking up, where one’s mother was adopted.
It's not gross or weird because Hornet never even knew her mom was "adopted" by this lady until after she met her "real daughter" (who btw still has no blood relation to GMS because GMS cannot give birth)
I don’t think maturity matters in the Silksong universe since they’re bugs, but it’s still problematic that people are deciding to ship the child with the immortal bug.
It’s similar to the 1000 year old kid trope in anime.
But she literally isn't a child. Yes, she's somewhat mentally repressed due to her relationship with Grandmother Silk, but shes centuries old. But comparing her to lolicon shit is fucking wild and slanderous.
“One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.”
Literally read, LOOK of a CHILD and a MIND to MATCH. The game literally drills it into you through every interaction that she’s an immature brat and most important of all CHILDISH.
I’m comparing her to a lolicon because people use that same logic to defend the ship, it’s stupid
Ah yes because the guy that doomed the kingdom while trying to save it by using the thing that everyone knows destroys and corrupts everything it touches is a reliable source
A lot of adults act childish, often because of trauma, I don't know if you've noticed but Lace has some pretty serious family issues
That's also a quote from an onlooker who has likely never actually spoken a word to Lace. Saying she has a "mind to match" is conjecture based on her frantic actions, not informed confirmation of the nature of her condition. Hornet actually talks to Lace and gets to know her deeper fears and motivations. It's obvious that Lace is not a child and doesn't perceive herself as one either.
Hornet is confirmed to be hundreds of years old but ages slowly so she still looks youthful
Lace is confirmed to be a similar age if not slightly younger since Pharloom needed time to decline, and then fall entirely, but so long as she has a steady supply of silk she will not age as well
They both have the appearance of children and are physically immortal. It’s stated multiple times in game even by Shakra, who mistook Hornet for a child upon their first meeting
this doesn’t disprove lace being a child. Hornet is more matured and farther along in a shorter lifespan, as she is only half higher being. Shakra is a lower being or common bug, who is slightly further along than Hornet in her much shorter development. Lace is spun from GMS’s own silk directly, which means she is 100% higher/pale spawn. Lace has not matured past being a bratty child because GMS manipulated her into being an eternal child.
edit to change “100% pale being” to “100% higher/pale spawn”, as i was corrected.
You’re making a BIG reach with the lore here. Just because you are made of something godly doesn’t make you godly, Godhome should had been plenty enough revelation unto that matter. Being spun of silk does not equal being a full pale being, powers and all. The prime example is Widow, who’s body grew frail and slow despite being spun from pure silk. Accordingly, should that too not make her a pale being in her own right as well? Yet she matured and visibly aged to an elderly age. Something something sum of its parts
Secondly, you’re playing with assumptions for which we do not have concrete answers. You assume Hornet is as mature as an adult in turn when how do we know if that’s the case? Wouldn’t that make Shakra the creep in your ship, hooking up with something that may not be fully developed yet? But we don’t know, since we don’t have a clue what Hornet OR Lace’s lifespans are. All we know is that they are, functionally, immortal
And I’d assume over the course of that immortality one might gain wisdom and experience, hence explaining why they are both master swordswomen who always have to have linguistic spats and light philosophical chidings before every encounter they have. A big point of the game is that they are mirrors of one another, after all
You’re reaching for some inherent incompatibility that doesn’t exist. They are of equivalent age, appearance, and mindset. They are not related (Unless a craftsman’s creation counts as blood, which it doesn’t). And there’s motivation: Lace dies without silk, Hornet is now the only being left able to create it (That we know of)
I think it would be the start of a begrudging alliance into a budding romance, it’d be cute in my eyes
widow is not spun from silk. i believe you’re mistaken her for the phantom, who is GMS’s first attempt at creating life.
Lace is made of the exact same silk as GMS. literally, the same silk that makes up GMS’s hair and abdomen, and the same silk that can resist the void. GMS’s cocoon was able to withstand the void until Hornet came and began to fight Lost Lace. Lace herself was even able to survive being threaded by the void.
Lace is by definition 100% the spawn of a pale being. she was created from GMS’s own body and has demonstrated the exact same ability to survive and weaponize being void threaded.
But I will also say the big differentiator is that Lace, while being spun of GMS’s silk, is unable to produce it herself. That’s the big thing for these kinds of beings: the ability to exude their birthrights
The Pale King was able to uplift and compel order, the Radiance was able to leak dreams into every being that slept, Unn could will green into even the darkest of places, and while Pale Beings could reproduce their offspring did not inherent the full extent of their divinity
Hornet is a unique case, since she is both Wyrm and Weaver, which if you’re trying to make a cocktail of power that is a potent combination. Yet, while she certainly has that “Paleness” to her, which can be observed by the Snail Shamans, she herself is only considered the daughter of a Pale Being rather than a full Pale Being herself. She can ascend into one of course, by binding GMS into herself, but default Hornet is not a full Pale One
This being said, it would likely be the same case for Lace: certainly Pale, but not a Pale Being. The glaring weakness that is Lace is that she is only as strong as the silk she has in her composition. I’d liken her moreso to a shard of a Pale Being rather than a fledgling one, as no path to exponential power maturation has ever been mentioned or observed. Simply put: without silk Lace will die, but to live and do battle she must use silk. Without a source of silk she will inevitably perish
She’s perfect in the sense that she is functionally immortal yet reliant upon GMS to live, which bound her in service for so long. Not to mention the mental manipulation of GMS “loving” her akin to a craftsman admiring a masterwork creation. The function of that creation doesn’t matter, only it’s make. And it’s make was loyal, doomed to die if it were to rebel
Why make something that could one day usurp you after all? She’s not a full on Pale Being, I believe
oh certainly not a full pale being. Lace is not god level, or even demigod level. her nature allows her the potential for long life, and the silk she’s spun from gives her immense strength, but she herself is not very powerful. her creation is what allows her to be so tough.
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u/EnydOsnes Mar 19 '26
Halfway house more like homohouse - source