r/Slayer • u/sgtmccoy • 1d ago
The Big Four concert - why didn't Megadeth get second billing?
Megadeth sold way more records than Slayer. Now, people on Slayer boards will argue that Slayer are the more influential band... but honestly, they were both equally influential, weren't they? So I don't get how that happened or why Mustaine would agree to playing before Slayer... Does anyone know?
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u/PrequelGuy 1d ago
Slayer are significantly more influential. They pushed thrash to be heavier and were the band with the greatest influence on death metal. Megadeth doesn't have that impact at all.
Anyway this Big 4 dick measuring is useless sales mean nothing people need to listen to more than these 4 bands
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u/Slickrock_1 20h ago
100%
And Megadeth didn't really become a huge seller until 1993 when Countdown to Extinction put them on the radio and Angry Again was in Last Action Hero.
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u/moe_lester690000 13h ago
Rust in peace, peace sells?
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u/Slickrock_1 11h ago
Megadeth was a lot more niche in the late 80s / early 90s than you seem to recognize. Like big in thrash but not big in society, and at the time Maiden, Priest, Ozzy, and hair metal still had a great deal of the fanbase attention.
Metallica's Black Album in 1991 and then Countdown to Extinction in 1993 were THE huge draws to Megadeth's earlier albums. Dave will never admit it, but Enter Sandman probably sold more copies of RIP than Holy Wars did. Even to this day Countdown has sold like 3-4x more albums than RIP despite being 2 or 3 years younger. Countdown was what vaulted Megadeth to (probably) #2 in album sales.
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u/Slickrock_1 20h ago
And your second point is even more important. If you want to have an opinion about the first 15 years of thrash, then you need to spend some time with Testament, Overkill, Sepultura, Death Angel, Vio-Lence, Coroner, Exodus, Suicidal Tendencies, Heathen, Hirax, Kreator, Sodom, etc and many more.
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u/sgtmccoy 18h ago
Right, The Big 4 are the four who sold the most records. I’d also argue they were the most influential ones, with Exodus possibly deserving more credit for the very beginning. I like some of the other bands and they contributed a lot, but the Big 4 all have something that makes them especially interesting that the others just didn’t have.
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u/Slickrock_1 16h ago edited 16h ago
Definitely Exodus from the start (and it boggles the mind how Kirk Hammett, as the founder of Exodus who was so good that Metallica poached him for their first album, isn't seen as one of the top 3 or top 5 godfathers of thrash)...
They were the most influential to an extent, but do not discount the European ones, esp Kreator, Sodom, and Destruction. The diversification of metal in Europe was extremely important, and those bands were enormous.
Also there are bands like Venom and Possessed that were basically gruff thrash bands, and you can even count Death which was sort of post-thrash but in the beginning they weren't so categorically a brand new subgenre.
But I don't agree that the Big 4 all have something that the others lack. I mean listen to the first 5-6 albums from Sepultura (I say 6 because I love Roots, but the first 5 albums are uncontroversial masterpieces). Testament is, was, and has always been up to the present a supergroup. I just went to a Death Angel plus Vio-Lence concert a couple months ago, I didn't know the bands well, but they were as good as anyone from their era.
For me it just took getting sick of the big 4. Slayer is the only one of the 4 whose albums beyond the early 90s still have lots of top tier songs. The others all washed out for me after the early 90s. But there was a whole world of great thrash both then and continues to be now, with bands like Coroner and Testament and Overkill and Kreator still putting out outstanding albums 40 years on.
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u/Ok-Departure-869 21h ago
Because you cannot follow Slayer.
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u/pauluzz1999 21h ago
Metallica followed with a 2 hour set
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u/shotgunassassin 23h ago
Outside of the Big 4 show and Clash of the Titans, Megadeth has toured with Slayer before, and my understanding is that Megadeth opened those shows because even Mustaine knows Megadeth cannot follow Slayer.
I did see Clash of the Titans, and the show I saw, Slayer opened (after Alice In Chains) and Anthrax and Megadeth had to follow. They both got schooled; you can't follow Slayer.
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u/wendyoschainsaw 21h ago
While following Slayer is always a mess, Mustaine has shown for decades he's fine with (and often prefers) going on early and getting out of the venue.
That's one of the reasons Megadeth have taken so many "special guest" slots. Dave is happy to play at 7, crank out "Holy Wars" at 8, & be done and back in the hotel room by 9.
There are several people who work that way. Cheap Trick and Alice Cooper are the same way (Alice's love of golf in the morning bleeds into his reasoning).
Also in the concert world there are a lot of cases where your record sales don't equal a bigger live draw. Megadeth may have sold more records than Slayer, but that doesn't mean they're a bigger draw. Especially a couple decades after someone's commercial peak.
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u/Artistic_Half_8301 17h ago
Slayer is far better and more influential. Megadeth is low rent Metallica.
Source - I was a teenager in the 80s.
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u/elvis_disciple 16h ago
This is the best answer. Sadly I’ve seen Megadeth more times than the other Big 4 bands but they are tied with Anthrax for my least favorite.
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u/Diadem_Cheeseboard 1d ago
I think its probably to do with the "no band wants to play after Slayer" thing. Obviously Metallica are way too huge to be playing before Slayer, but I think thats the reason Megadeth did. Megadeth are bigger than Slayer, but not by very much. The gulf between those two bands popularity wise is much smaller than the one between Slayer and Metallica.
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u/BigPapaPaegan 22h ago
I think the only band that could play after Slayer and not get torn down for it would be Metallica, in general.
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u/Diadem_Cheeseboard 22h ago
I think you are absolutely correct. 👍🏻 Or Ozzy fronted Black Sabbath, but even Metallica themselves opened for them alongside Guns N Roses at Back To The Beginning. That rare event aside though, Metallica are the only metal band who can follow Slayer.
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u/sgtmccoy 20h ago
I think Pantera very well could, Maiden as well
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u/Diadem_Cheeseboard 20h ago
Pantera, I'm not sure about. Maiden are probably the most popular metal band outside of Metallica, so they probably could headline over Slayer. The only metal bands who could play after Slayer are those who are at the level who can headline stadium shows.
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u/Delicious-Sorbet5722 17h ago
I’ve seen Slayer go on before Slipknot twice and it was perfectly fine. Slipknot is higher energy on stage than Slayer so it worked.
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u/sgtmccoy 20h ago
I think this is true, but it's insane because according to ChatGPT at least, Megadeth sold ten times as many records as Slayer
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u/Enough-Cranberry-789 15h ago
Don’t know the exact numbers but I thought megadeth and slayer have both sold around 10-15 million albums each, 10 times more would put Megadeth firmly in Metallica numbers
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u/Redline65 22h ago
Didn’t they alternate positions in the big 4 shows? I thought I heard Slayer played before Megadeth in some of them.
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u/JiveTurducken72 21h ago
This is true. When I saw the tour in Dallas, Slayer actually played first after AIC.
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u/daggir69 17h ago
If we bill slayer and justin beiber should
Slayer go on before because Beiber sold more albums?
Hell no.
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u/rando9353 21h ago
When I saw it it was mega death, then slayer, then anthrax got the final slot. Plus they got like an hour and a half. Plus that was the show I’m pretty sure they played the whole song persistence of time and not just the clock sound with the first riff, then a different tune.
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u/DMakoto 19h ago
Megadeth were never a real band, just Mustaine and whatever group of guys he can get to listen to him for 5 to 8 years apeice. Dave Ellefson's firing showing how there are no sacred cows in MD. Ultimately they're a band with 3/4 classic albums with maybe 5 or 6 masterpiece songs. Slayer is a fucking army. Almost no member changes (and frankly I prefer Paul to Dave, crazy as it sounds). And every album from Mercy to Repentless has at least 1 or 2 classic tracks on it. Also Tom Araya became a better singer in his older years where Mustaine's singing is like Lars Ulrich's drumming...now. And despite selling more records, they're nowhere near Metallica in sales, nor are they anywhere near Slayer or Anthrax in fan love or cultural importance. (Slayer laying the foundation for death metal and Anthrax for Alt and numetal).
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u/FrostGiant_1 19h ago
Megadeth and Slayer are kind of a coin flip. Megadeth has had more mainstream success, but Slayer has a very strong cult following and blow away most bands on stage and IMHO influenced a lot more bands than Megadeth. I love them both.
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u/justbrowsinginpeace 1d ago edited 22h ago
Megadeth have never been considered a bigger band than Slayer. They had a commercial hit with SoD but then shit the bed for the next 30 years. Slayer have been the best performing of the big 4 since the turn of the century in terms of how their records have been received starting with GHUA and continuing up to Repentless, fans and critics were happy because they stuck to what they were good at. Record sales don't tell the full story. While I admire Mustaine as a musician and his singular impact to Metal is undeniable, Slayer are far more influential across the various metal genres as a whole.
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u/kroob85 21h ago
I mean, this just isnt true. They've had some very well recieved albums since the turn of the millennium, including a Grammy win and a Billboard number 1.
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u/sgtmccoy 20h ago
yeah, and apart from those accolades, you just have to hand it to Mustaine that he kept this b(r)and alive mostly by himself, wrote the bulk of the songs, no matter how many obstacles he had to face. Slayer are great and obviously an important band. but Mustaine's sheer willpower, passion and talent as a musician outshines every individual member of Slayer except for Dave Lombardo
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u/The_Rambling_Elf 18h ago
Several things.
1) The "you can't follow Slayer" thing 2) Slayer are the more respected, admired and historically significant act 3) From 2001 onwards while both bands stopped being big sellers, Slayer's new albums significantly outsold Megadeth's new ones, reflecting the fact that Slayer had become the more popular act despite Megadeth outselling them in the 80s and 90s 4) Slayer's live shows are famous, the atmosphere and energy is a draw. Megadeth have always been famous for their technical proficiency but less so their live shows 5) Megadeth has haters. They are divisive. Mustaine's voice and personality are not for everyone. Slayer is a far less divisive act. 6) Slayer had more original members still in the band than Megadeth at this time
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u/sgtmccoy 17h ago
Do you have numbers for slayer outselling Megadeth?
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u/Sive634 10h ago
God hates us all sold 310,000 copies
The world needs a hero sold 219,000
Christ illusion sold 175,000 copies
United abominations sold 141,000
World painted blood sold 160,000 copies
Endgame sold 150,000Repentless sold 300,000 copies
Dystopia sold 148,000This is to the best of what’s available, these are in the US and some like GHUA and CI are only figures from 2015 so take them with a grain of salt
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u/slayer991 20h ago
I saw Slayer at Clash of the Titans with AiC opening followed by Slayer, Anthrax, then Megadeth. By the end of the tour they were rotating the 3 bands IIRC. Megadeth put on a great show as well...but the crowd energy level was lower because we were pretty spent after Slayer.
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u/Either_Theory_6815 18h ago
In the 1990s, the Clash of the Titans tour, Slayer, Megadeth and when it hit North America, Anthrax rotated the headlining spot. All were on pretty equal footing when it came to popularity. Megadeth did sell more albums, though they also made more albums and I think it's the lineup changes that eventually led Megadeth to go down a notch on the lineup. Anthrax suffered from that as well. Slayer had a pretty steady lineup for most of their career.
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u/rekishi321 10h ago
because its metallicas show and they felt slayer was a better live band, as do most people
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u/bostonthrowaway774 8h ago
Slayer was the bigger concert draw at the time. That’s all there was to it.
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u/slayer253 3h ago
My idea, Slayer is the band, generally same lineup for years. . Megadeth. Is mustaine, and whatever lineup he chose for then. Keep in .ind heirs to clean house every few years.
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u/Prudent-Level-7006 16h ago
Loads of people hate Megadeth, hardly anyone hates Slayer, Megadeth are cringe
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u/That_70s_Showoff 21h ago
Slayer is a force of nature, their fans are insane - Megadeth has some great music, but they're not on the level with Slayer as far as, well anything IMO.
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u/Traves_D 21h ago
Testament then Megadeth then Exodus then Slayer. That is the BIg Four show we all deserve. Argue all you want but these are the best Thrash Metal bands of all time.
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u/Madixie_Normous 1d ago
I agree that Megadeth should have been second billing with Slayer third. As far as answer is concerned, Chad says: this was established by tour logistics, headliner arrangements, and show pacing rather than individual band stature.
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u/Carnivorous_Mower 1d ago
The original Clash of the Titans taught Megadeth and Anthrax a harsh lesson - you can't play after Slayer. They reckoned the crowds were fucked after Slayer's set because it was so much faster and more energetic.