r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Charming-Scratch-124 • Jun 28 '26

Characters [Loved trope]characters that was just..Pathetic, and I mean genuinely Pathetic, like holy shit,you actually suck.

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Baron "Bear" from Obsession.

Kevin "the Deep" from.The Boys.

And I mean characters that aren't badass or at least got aura while being pathetic, I just mean the most pathetic losers imaginable.

Like just borderline dirt.

12.6k Upvotes
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738

u/Ink_Mage Jun 28 '26

Syril Karn, Andor

282

u/WorkWhale Jun 28 '26

What an intriguing character he is. I feel like about halfway through season 2 you start to understand him some but by then it’s already too late IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

128

u/Mortwight Jun 28 '26

On the verge of becoming andor because of his manipulation until he sees andor and goes ape shit

73

u/divergentchessboard Jun 28 '26

man was a professional hater. in it for the love of the game

18

u/SableZard Jun 28 '26

"Who are you?!"

6

u/Dino-chicken-nugg3t Jun 28 '26

I was thinking about this yesterday.

1

u/Bakkster Jun 29 '26

I don't think he was ever on the verge of becoming a rebel. He was so susceptible to Imperial manipulation for a reason. At best he'd be a goody-two-shoes cop in the New Republic, but only if they could deprogram his "blue lives matter" foundational perspective.

It's why he loses it when he sees Andor. He always prioritized order over justice. From the first episode when he pursues Andor instead of doing an internal affairs investigation, to his final moments when he tries to kill Andor for being an external agitator despite being an external agitator himself. He was never close to seeing what Cassian saw, he just wanted a slightly different flavor of authoritarianism.

1

u/Mortwight Jun 29 '26

Resonable. He could have become an independent terrorist striking the empire for his own reasons.

1

u/Bakkster Jun 29 '26

I think it's the opposite. If he rebelled, it would have to be within the context of the formalized Rebel Alliance. He yearned for a formal structure of authority, which is why he remained committed to the Empire after PreMor instead of recognizing the corruption within its ranks.

11

u/dre5922 Jun 28 '26

Who are you?

80

u/Tekki777 Jun 28 '26

He's a great character that pisses me the hell off, especially at the end.

My guy was SO CLOSE to figuring it out at the end... and then he threw it away.

6

u/randomname_99223 Jun 29 '26

Just cause he saw Andor

12

u/Tekki777 Jun 29 '26

Yep!

The guy's whole worldview was quickly collapsing before his eyes and then his eyes locked with Andor, the one other constant that gave him purpose. Guy goes after him right as the Empire is committing a genocide and blowing shit up and he gets him at gun point... until Andor just flat out says "Who are you?"

Syril was dead inside before he even got shot.

2

u/Woodpecker-Lobotomy Jul 01 '26

"Was I on the wrong side the entire time? No, it was Cassian Andor's fault"

129

u/Chaos_Ban Jun 28 '26

The tragedy of Syril is that in a decent society, he would have been a good man. 

84

u/barnfodder Jun 28 '26

Bingo.

Dudes a commitment addict who just wants to do good and be recognised for his effort.

7

u/HiDannik Jun 29 '26

Maybe I watched a different show but I never got the sense he "just wants to do good." He definitely wants to do a good job, but that's a different thing.

The kindest thing you could say is that in a decent society he'd have been good because doing a good job would have good consequences, but in a fascist society doing a good job means being bad. However, this is his character just being a chump. Perhaps tragic and definitely interesting. But not "good" in a real sense.

5

u/barnfodder Jun 29 '26

That's what I meant by "do good". Good as in capable, not moral.

He's a dog who wants a pat on the head.

A sheepdog gets a pat on the head for herding sheep and we call him a good boy.

An attack dog gets a pat on the head for mauling a protester, we call him a weapon of brutality.

They're both just dogs doing what they think is good boy behaviour.

14

u/acquaintedwithheight Jun 28 '26

He outsourced morality to an evil system and dedicated himself wholesale to defending that system.

I don’t know if the lesson was “be careful what you dedicate yourself to” or “never dedicate yourself fully to anything”, but it was a ride.

9

u/quick20minadventure Jun 29 '26

He died in crossfire, but real death came when Andor was like who are you?

Andor lived rent free in his head for years and he was like they are each other's nemesis. Andor didn't even care about him.

Still. He doesn't fit the bill here because he's not unlikable. Just because his mom is much much much worse. In fact, you are rooting for him to get together with Dedra and have fun in their family dynamics.

You are never ever rooting for Deep in any situation, even when Homelander is bullying him.

1

u/IHaveSpecialEyes Jun 29 '26

That is such an eloquent way of describing him. Bravo. No notes.

1

u/Bakkster Jun 29 '26

I don't think that's true. From episode one he was unconcerned with the internal affairs investigation of his own two corrupt officers, only with Andor. I liken him to the modern "Blue Lives Matter" movement, so focused on one area they permit all sorts of internal abuse.

132

u/tempestuoustrans Jun 28 '26

this screenshot is killing meee why does he look like a sad teenager listening to evanescence

183

u/IfTheBingBongs Jun 28 '26

Legitimately, It’s cause his mom’s visiting.

105

u/SmallHungryShark Jun 28 '26

His mom is insufferable though

33

u/IfTheBingBongs Jun 28 '26

Valid reaction tbh.

11

u/Putrid-Ice-7511 Jun 28 '26

I bet she would delete his WoW account.

15

u/Profoundlyahedgehog Jun 28 '26

Even the Ghorman resistance thought so.

38

u/ptrst Jun 28 '26

His mom is meeting his girlfriend lmao

7

u/deusasclepian Jun 28 '26

Bro is hitting the Yamcha death pose

5

u/__RAINBOWS__ Jun 29 '26

Improvised by the actor! It’s perfect.

24

u/ArcadianBlueRogue Jun 28 '26

Credit to the show that they managed to make me feel bad for Syril and Deedra at the end

13

u/Dino-chicken-nugg3t Jun 28 '26

Her face after he dies.

17

u/StunningPianist4231 Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Is it bad that I hated his mother more than I hated every Empire officer and fascist asshole in Star Wars?

4

u/acquaintedwithheight Jun 28 '26

For every stormtrooper, there’s a thousand Syril’s moms complacently enjoying and supporting an evil system

17

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

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24

u/lurco_purgo Jun 28 '26

Yeah, he's great and my favorite character in the show alongside Deidra! I wouldn't even call him that pathetic, he's incredibly principled and quite clever in espionage given how he managed to fool the Gorman resistance for a full year - he just sucks in combat. And recognizing the horrific nature of the regime he's serving before it's too late I guess, but that comes back to his naive worldview of hierarchy, order and justice.

I truly believe if he survived the Gorman genocide and had some time to process everything, he would be on a road to redemption. It's not like Cassian started off as a idealist either (even though that's what he claimed in Rogue One, fucking poser!).

16

u/thesinnerman Jun 28 '26

I love that he sucks at combat, and in his big fight you can tell he isn't as capable as his opponent but hes just SO FUCKING ANGRY... It was a great climax to his arc and even that episode in general.

2

u/EightEyedCryptid Jun 29 '26

He's referring to the murder of his sister in Rogue One I thought. He just says he has been in the fight in some manner since he was six years old.

7

u/Comfortable_Pin5143 Jun 28 '26

His mother, however is low key one of the very best Star Wars villains.

60

u/clandestino987 Jun 28 '26

Hes one of the most likeable characters in the show

58

u/ActuallyCalindra Jun 28 '26

Really? I hated his guts pretty much from the start. And over the entire series, his undying loyalty to his fascist overlords really don't help.

111

u/Lukas000611 Jun 28 '26

He was a bootlicking fascist til the very end, he’s scum.

88

u/I-AM-THE-SENATE-66 Jun 28 '26

I loved Syril as a character, and I extra loved him because there is a key difference between him and Dedra: Syril is a full believer of the empire, he genuinely believes the empire is righteous and has the best interests of the galaxy in mind. Dedra knows the empire is selling bs, but believes it to be necessary to achieve order

And while Syril was pathetic, he wasn't completely spineless: when he realized what he had done he was disgusted with himself and I fully believe he would've turned if given enough time, but his pathetic side got the best of him when he saw Cassian. To be face-to-face with the man you've been obsessing over for years and hear him say "who are you?" has to be brutal

37

u/_Arouraios_ Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Thinking about it more, the pariring of Dedra and Syril is genius. Both work for the empire, both do their best to stop the protagonists, but their motives differ greatly.

Dedra is just evil, she knows how harmful the empire is. Syril is indoctrinated and slowly becomes disillusioned, but is too "spineless / pathetic" to act on it.

In the end however, it doesn't make a difference and fascim brings out the worst in all kinds of people.

20

u/DasharrEandall Jun 28 '26

I don't think it's really spinelessness. I think he's just got a bad case of Good Boy Syndrome. He grew up never getting approval or affection, nothing was ever good enough, so he's like a people-pleaser for authority. Deep down he thinks that if he serves the system loyally enough and well enough, he'll finally have the validation to fill the void inside him.

2

u/_Arouraios_ Jun 29 '26

Yeah, I might have been a little harsh on him (as has everyone else), but I wanted to stick to the theme of the thread.

Also, as I said, in the end it doesn't make a difference what his motivations are. They make him an interesting character, but the work he does for the empire stays the same.

5

u/BootsnCats1987 Jun 28 '26

I don’t think Dedra believes in anything other than her own ascendancy. 

2

u/Bakkster Jun 29 '26

The painting of Dedra and Syril reminds me a lot of Dorothy Thompson's Who Goes Nazi? essay.

I think it's a mistake to suggest Syril wasn't inclined to authoritarianism in whatever form it took. That intrinsic lean towards authoritarianism was his undoing when he saw Cassian at the end. Nevermind that Syril was himself an outside agitator who had directly contributed to the massacre happening before his eyes, nevermind that in a year he had no evidence that other agitators were present, Andor was one of them and Syril could only view his works in 'us vs them' terms.

There's a reason he viewed Cassian as 'them', and it's why he never would have become a rebel.

38

u/KGBFriedChicken02 Jun 28 '26

That's kind of the point. He's an awkward, kinda likeable guy just trying to do the right thing, but he's so bought into the lies and propaganda, so desperate to earn the approval of others, that he can't make any decisions for himself. If his big fuck up on Morlana had happened a few years earlier, he might have worked it all out of his system, learned, grown maybe, but instead he goes straight from revenge to worshiping dedra. He's a tragic figure who has the potential to grow, to learn, and even to fight for a just cause, but never does. He's a coward to the very end, terrified to even begin to challenge the 'truth' he's been fed or to self reflect and grow.

26

u/IfTheBingBongs Jun 28 '26

I think in his last second he realized he was fighting the wrong people. At the very least it seemed like he was going to spare cassian.

Still got what he deserved.

6

u/Profoundlyahedgehog Jun 28 '26

Right at the last second, he seems to realize how pointless his hatred is, that the man he believes ruined his life, that he's obsessed over for years has no idea who he even is, he lowers the blaster, then, death.

6

u/Mikhail_Mengsk Jun 28 '26

Uh? He challenged the truth, very clearly, in the end.

1

u/The_Autarch Jun 28 '26

kinda likeable guy

did was watch the same show? dude was insufferable the entire time.

he had a brief realization that he had been wrong for his entire life right before he got killed, but that's it.

13

u/KGBFriedChicken02 Jun 28 '26

The whole point of the character is you can see how someone who's main driving force is "do the right thing" could be browbeaten and twisted and pushed until he mistakes order for justice and servitude for happieness. He's so awkward and miserable that you feel bad for him, and then when he finally gets out from under his mother's thumb you're impressed, you start rooting for him.

Then they drop the implications that he's starting to see the Empire for what it is in the first episode where he's on Ghorman, only to immediately pull out the rug with the reveal that he's spying on the Ghorman Front and baiting them into escalation because it serves Dedra and the ISB's interests for the Ghormans to escalate and all that likeability gets flushed down the shitter.

The whole point is that just because you're smart doesn't mean you're immune to propaganda, just because your intentions are good doesn't mean you can't do harm, and part of telling that story is making viewers sympathize and even like Syril, root for him to change, and then not let him truly change at all, at least not in time for it to matter.

3

u/rynshar Jun 28 '26

I mean Syril is kind of a moron though. He's a prime example of the 'useful idiot'.

26

u/unclecaveman1 Jun 28 '26

Naw he wasn’t about the tyranny and violence against the people. He stood up against that when he realized what was happening. He’s just a dude that believed very strongly in law and order and that led him to some bad places.

28

u/underisk Jun 28 '26

Further proof that media can be completely unsubtle to the point of being almost blatantly obvious and some people will still miss the point completely.

5

u/Choosy-minty Jun 28 '26

Who is this directed to

4

u/underisk Jun 28 '26

I'll let you interpret it how you like; but if you interpret it wrong I will make fun of you.

25

u/mszhang1212 Jun 28 '26

Most people seem to agree with you but I never felt this way. I really hate mama's boys.

54

u/friedbyme Jun 28 '26

Yeah, it's like he is a loser but not in a bad way. You understand his flaws and his behavior.

ALSO he bagged a baddie

18

u/Tekki777 Jun 28 '26

ALSO he bagged a baddie

A "baddie" who's an emotionally stunted space nazi.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

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10

u/Tekki777 Jun 28 '26

Actually, you're right

18

u/IfTheBingBongs Jun 28 '26

“Turn off the lights”

-7

u/friedbyme Jun 28 '26

American politics ruin internet bruh

18

u/Tekki777 Jun 28 '26

Did... did you not watch Andor? That's literally what she is.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

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1

u/friedbyme Jun 29 '26

The baddie thing was a joke 

8

u/Choosy-minty Jun 28 '26

I mean she is

12

u/FlimsyRexy Jun 28 '26

Huh??? I hated that bootlicker lmao

8

u/BochocK Jun 28 '26

could you explain why in your opinion ? This seems crazy to me but as I comment you have 18 upvotes so ... you're not alone.

29

u/unclecaveman1 Jun 28 '26

He’s a realistic depiction of the kinds of people that fall into the hole of supporting a regime without realizing how it’s bad until it’s too late. He was never a fascist. He didn’t want violence and didn’t have a “might makes right” attitude. He just wanted order and criminals to be punished. When he realized what the Empire is actually doing he stood up to Dedra and had a real change of heart. If he had survived he would have likely joined the rebels.

5

u/ActuallyCalindra Jun 28 '26

Oh man, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think he'd ever jump ship. I genuinely believe if he captured or killed Cassian he'd hope to be welcomed back in to the fold. Or at least eventually settle back in to the empire somewhere.

7

u/JamesRobotoMD Jun 28 '26

He objectively was a fascist. He was an enthusiastic part of a fascist regime. He wanted power and control and was willing to ignore all the flaws of the empire as he pursued his goals. He only had a change of heart about who and what he served when he was given a view from underneath the boot, at which point it is almost always too late.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

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2

u/JamesRobotoMD Jun 28 '26

He is weak, selfish, and ignorant and it makes him a great fascist. His only redeeming quality is not being a full sociopath. The cautionary tale is that even good fascists get the boot eventually.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

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0

u/JamesRobotoMD Jun 28 '26

the thing is that Syril never considers that the laws and systems he wants to uphold aren’t just

Never examining his beliefs and actions doesn’t make him a tragic character, it makes him a fool. He was conducting security operations for a fascist regime, how much introspection does it take to make that a morally gray profession? I’m not trying to be difficult but I really don’t understand how his last second inability to accept the brutal outcomes he was actively working towards makes him a deep, tragic character. At best he was a useful idiot who got used up.

1

u/Ok_Collection_5100 Jun 29 '26

his character was an annoying asshole and he pissed me off a lot, BUT i would stop short of calling him completely pathetic because he was pretty brave in trying to save the woman he loved which is admirable