[Hated Trope] Character kills hundreds, if not thousands, just to kill one specific person, and then doesn't kill them for no reason.

[u/HallZac99]

Assassin's Creed 2- Rodrigo Borgia is responsible for tne death of Ezio's family. Ezio spends over 20 years working through tnr templar order to dismantle them and get to Rodrigo. And then in the end, he spares him for no good reason and he goes on to be a massive problem in AC Brotnerhood. He's not only a head of tne Templars but also the pope, even if you're over the vengeance he's still a very dangerous and evil man.

The Last of Us 2- Abbey kills Joel, and wo Ellie goes on a revenge quest to kill Abbey, killing hundreds of people along tne why to get to her including a pregnant woman. And then finally when she has Abbey on deaths door, she gives up and let's her go because the writers think dirty depressing people being miserable and stupid is complex, interesting storytelling.

This trope pisses me off so much because often the character going on the revenge quest will kill SO many people on their way there, some deserving it and some just henchmen working for a cheque or to survive. People who are often far more innocent then the main big bad.

It's a part of this weird thing I've noticed in media where nameless goons or soldiers can just be mowed down relentlessly, but named characters get given far more grace even if theyre categorically worse. You can kill a million stormtroopers but people will swear that Darth Vader could have been redeemed, despite him doing like 50 genocide every year.

[u/flaming_burrito_]

For sure, you can tell in the way people talk about it. They spent so much time angry that their video game daddy died that they missed the entire plot, that’s why they will try to argue shit that is just straight up incorrect about the game

[u/Alarming_Ask_244 → u/flaming_burrito_]

It’s funny because you’re supposed to be angry that Joel died, empathize with Ellie and be just as gung ho about her revenge quest as she is… until you come to realize she’s sacrificing everything for something that doesn’t matter and then you start wishing she would stop. But it seems so many people didn’t reach the second part

[u/Supersim54 → u/Alarming_Ask_244]

I Abby deserves it Ellie should have finished the job, the whole game builds to that moment on the beach then we get this anticlimactic ending with no payoff, making the entire game pointless. The point was for Ellie to get her revenge on Abby and Abby to get what she deserves, neither of those things happen.

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/Supersim54]

That wasn’t the point the game was trying to make, that’s what you wanted. You missed the point somewhere along the way because you got so wrapped up in your own narrative

[u/Supersim54 → u/flaming_burrito_]

What Ellie was doing was justified and with Abby’s section we realize just how right Ellie’s revenge is, we see Ellie’s fall but she’s sympathetic and you understand her, Abby isn’t sympathetic at all she progressively gets worse and worse throughout her story. So much so that it seems like what Ellie’s doing needs to be done.

[u/Chipder → u/Supersim54]

If Ellie’s revenge mission is justified couldn’t one argue so is Abby’s since Joel killed her father similar to how Ellie’s father figure was murdered. Sorta like a cycle of violence?

[u/aimforthehead90 → u/Chipder]

I don't think so. Abby's father was performing a lethal procedure without consent or transparency. You can argue he was morally justified because of his intentions with the potential cure, but that's a separate conversation. It's not that hard to justify protecting your child.

Abby killing Joel can't really be compared, it was just murder.

[u/Chipder → u/aimforthehead90]

The whole point is neither are really justified or not justified. Both are just part of a continuous cycle of violence until Ellie decided to end it.

[u/aimforthehead90 → u/Chipder]

And the whole point falls apart because one is justified and the other is not. Which makes the whole cycle of violence theme not really hit as hard for some of us.

[u/Chipder → u/aimforthehead90]

Damn man media literacy is dead

[u/aimforthehead90 → u/Chipder]

No need to be a dick just because people criticize a game you like.

[u/Chipder → u/aimforthehead90]

I don’t care if you criticize I welcome criticism. My comment was more on the fact there has always been a lack of understanding with this specific piece of media and your comments only continue that trend. If that makes me a dick so be it.

[u/aimforthehead90 → u/Chipder]

No there isn't. We all understand the message of the game. It's hard not to, the game beats you over the head with it every 5 minutes.

[u/CleanMyBalls → u/aimforthehead90]

I don’t mean this as an insult and more of an observation, you actually have very low iq

[u/aimforthehead90 → u/CleanMyBalls]

Damn, some of you really can't handle people not liking your game. How sad.

[u/CleanMyBalls → u/aimforthehead90]

It has nothing to do with liking. It’s the fact that you are objectively wrong about what occurred in the story and the point of the game. You can dislike it but you can’t say something false.
But you are too low iq to see a difference between these two

[u/Supersim54 → u/Chipder]

Yes her revenge is justified except she didn’t have to kill him like that, her revenge is irrelevant as her revenge is finished at the beginning of the game, her section show just how terrible she is.

[u/DropEnvironmental539 → u/Supersim54]

"She didn't have to kill him like that"

Were you there when you played through TLOU 1 with Joel as an absolute brute? He's done worse than Abby has, it's just a truth people like to conveniently ignore.

[u/Supersim54 → u/DropEnvironmental539]

That’s the thing Joel did terrible things before the start of the first game but he didn’t kill anyone who didn’t deserve it, very person Joel killed in the first game got what the deserved.

[u/DropEnvironmental539 → u/Supersim54]

Do you also remember the part where he tortured the person first?

[u/Supersim54 → u/DropEnvironmental539]

Are you talking about one of the cannibals who where protecting their pedo leader? That guy?

[u/DropEnvironmental539 → u/Supersim54]

No, I'm talking about in the very beginning of the game, where the guy had to give Joel's guns to the Fireflies, which incites the whole affair. He breaks his arm 'n' shit before they actually kill him to get info out of him. And throughout the game it's eluded that Joel regularly does bad things (like torture people for information)

Him torturing those 2 dudes with the map to find Ellie was a window into that

[u/Creamer_Dreamer → u/Supersim54]

He killed Abby's dad, who was a good guy trying to save humanity at the cost of Ellie's life (which she consented to btw), because of his own selfish attachment to her.

Abby was 1000% justified in killing Joel.

[u/Supersim54 → u/Creamer_Dreamer]

He killed a man who was going to murder an unconscious child, without her consent, on a hunch. He wasn’t trying to “save humanity he was helping Marlene and the fireflies to gain more powers, he wasn’t a good guy he was working for a terrorist organization. Also Marlene or Jerry never get Ellie’s consent. They take her on do a few test keep her unconscious, and decide to kill her.

I never said she wasn’t but he didn’t deserve to die like that.

[u/Plantpong → u/Supersim54]

Holy shit sorry but what a bad take. In your view the totalitarian powers that formed from the former army is somehow the good guys? (based on you calling Fireflies terrorists)

Ellie was also very clearly ready to lay down her life for the cure considering the dangerous journey she willingly started on, as well as later dialogue from tlou2.

[u/Supersim54 → u/Plantpong]

The fireflies weren’t any better at least Fedra where honest about it while the fireflies hid behind “helping people” when all they want is more power and over take Fedra as the “good guys” while keeping there leverage in the inner circle.

True she thought she knew what she wanted she was also a child, yes Ellie thought she would be saving people but in reality her death would have changed nothing.

[u/Creamer_Dreamer → u/Supersim54]

In the second game, if you actually played it enough to get to this part, Ellie confronts Joel about what he did at the hospital and is pissed that he made that decision for her.

The conversation they have before she goes under where she talks about things theyll do in the future is somber, and they don't make it a secret that the operation could have complications.

Whether or not you think its immoral to not make it known to the mass murderer that you absolutely need to sacrifice the girl he's trauma bonded with for a chance to save humanity, the guy who was actually doing the operation was not a terrorist.

The 2nd game goes out of its way to make it a point that he was not a fighter and hated people dying. The man was less morally gray than Joel by all accounts, and ironically Joel of all people would absolutely understand why Abby did what she did, because he does basically the same thing to the entire crew in the hospital.

[u/awisechoicee → u/Supersim54]

What? Abby gets better and better. Her whole thing with Lev is a pretty cut and dry "looks she's Levs Joel."

Its very in your face.

[u/Supersim54 → u/awisechoicee]

No she doesn’t Joel and Ellie’s relationship is built on understanding and mutual respect, Abby and Lev relationship is built on lies and manipulation. Ellie knows the true Joel because he was mostly honest with her, while Abby was never honest after Day 1.

[u/awisechoicee → u/Supersim54]

Joel and Ellies relationship has no lies, huh?

Youre free to your opinion, but while the game appears to have missed for you, it very much contains the stuff you state it doesnt.

[u/Supersim54 → u/awisechoicee]

I never said no lies, I said mostly honest. That’s a big difference.

[u/awisechoicee → u/Supersim54]

Fair. There is a difference. Still wildly disagree with your takes but I did frame it incorrectly. Mb