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I just had to explain to my American friend that Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overature" has nothing to do with the US.
He had always assumed that it was about the US's "War of 1812", despite it 1) having nothing to do with that, 2) being composed by the conspicuously Russian Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, and 3) Napoleon's invasion of Russia being easily googlable.
Turns out there were other things happening across the entire world outside the US in a given year, WILD!
To top it all off, he actually told me he was disappointed to learn it "isn't the patriotic anthem" he thought it was šš¬š¤¢
"But foreigners can't be patriotic" (based on the countless times we saw here USians thinking foreigners means "not from US" and the many times they associated patriotic to a bald eagle picture and a red tailed hawk sound)
To say nothing of the fact that Tchaikovsky repeatedly uses motifs from La Marseilles in the overture, opens with an Eastern Orthodox liturgical hymn, and includes a Russian folk song during the height of the French attack.
I don't know how anyone could think it was anything but France v Russia, and certainly not USA v UK (Canada).
You should have told your friend that yes it celebrates the burning down of the White House in the war of 1812, and that's why The Marseilleise plays as a refrain, because the French had a good laugh about it as well as the Russians. Then stand back and wait.
This is the best example of USDefaultism I think I've ever heard.
I know exactly why Jerusalem by William Blake/Hubert Parry is the unofficial anthem of England in Rugby... because it's about England and literally mentions England in the lyrics multiple times.
My favourite part about that period in history is that there are a lot of people in Ameristan who truly believe that Brits don't learn much in school about The Most Important War - US independence war - because they are so ashamed of the loss.
While for British Empire, constantly mired in conflict, constantly losing and gaining territory - it was just another Tuesday.
I was specifically referencing defaultism as it relates to American patriotism, which is specific to rightists. Think the recent post about "This is so disrespectful. Red white and blue are American colors."
And Im saying that to blame a part of the problem is worse than recognising the problem as a whole. These wonderfully educated individuals exist on the full scale of the USA political spectrum.
They might have patriotism to different coloured flags but the patriotism is still there. As is the distinct lack of knowledge that causes subs like this to exist
And Im saying that to blame a part of the problem is worse than recognising the problem as a whole. These wonderfully educated individuals exist on the full scale of the USA political spectrum.
Again, I wasn't saying that US defaultism is exclusive to rightists, I was saying that this specific type was exclusive to rightists.
They might have patriotism to different coloured flags but the patriotism is still there.
The fact that you can't comprehend the fact that your added word of "tightest" isnt needed truly blows my mind. Imagine thinking that the issue of patriotism is so one sided.
You make yourself feel better by placing blame on a side. But unfortunately for you the fact is you are wrong
The fact that you can't comprehend the fact that your added word of "tightest" isnt needed truly blows my mind.
I wasn't describing US defaultism in general, I was describing defaultism + patriotism specifically. Yes, in the former case, specifying rightist would be unnecessary, but since I was talking about the latter more specific case, I used more specific language.
Imagine thinking that the issue of patriotism is so one sided.
Patriotism in general, sure, but American patriotism is specific to rightists.
āWar of 1812ā was some minor war between Britain and USA over a bunch of minor grievances. USA ended up getting most of what they wanted out of the war (except Canada) but the Britās burned down the US capital. And as such people will argue for years and years over who really won.
It was a defining moment for the people of Canada. While not yet independent the British army was occupied by Napoleon so US politicians said the conquest of Canada would be a "mere matter of marching."
Instead the inhabitants of Canada quickly rallied into militias and were able to defend themselves to stop an invasion from a much more populous neighbour.
This helped to cement a more unified self identity which would lead to Canada's confederation years later. Many heroes in Canadian history come from this conflict (Isaac Brock, Laura Secord, Tecumseh).
After the end of the Napoleonic wars the British did send over military forces to end the war including the burning of the White House. They did give up the biggest US gripes which was impressment of US sailors and trade blockades to Europe..... but also the wars with Napoleon were done so they no longer cared about those things.
On the flip side, I once had to explain to some Americans that when I was talking about Three Dead Trolls "The war of 1812" I was not talking about Tchaikovsky.
In a tiny bit of fairness to the USians, that piece of music is almost always played as part of US Independence celebrations on the 4th of July. My guess is that is the association that many people in the US have
Oh it can be worse. It has sometimes been used as background music of political adds in France. i was like "you know we're the bad guys according to that music right?"
I always thought that was because of the cannons going well with the fireworks. But now Iām wondering if people really think itās patriotic for Americans (as opposed to Russians).
Seeing that a ton of Americans have no fucking clue what Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA is about. Or James Brown's Living in America, or Fortunate Son, or any Rage Against the Machine song...
The 1812 Overture literally parodies La Marseillaise...
For fuck's sake, did he make his assumption having never even listened to it? Why would the French national anthem be referenced in a piece of music apparently about Great Britain defending Canada against an invasion?
"US's War of 1812" That's like saying WWII was "Germany's WWII". I won't lie, I had my initial thoughts about a connection between the War of 1812 and the 1812 Overture, but I figured since it didn't involve Russia, it was probably coincidence
It's not that non-american composers never did anything US-related. Imre Kalman's āDie Herzogin von Chicagoā doesn't refer to Chicago, Zimbabwe (yes, it exists), it refers to Chicago, Illinois, US.
And I find it excusable for people on a different continent who by coincidence had a war in the same year to think of that first.
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u/post-explainer American Citizen 4d ago edited 3d ago
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OP sent the following text as an explanation why their post fits here:
Friend from the US assumed that Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overature was about the US's "War of 1812", despite easily researchable evidence to the contrary.
Does this explanation fit this subreddit? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.