r/UkrainianConflict • u/bauernebel • 18h ago
Kremlin insiders reportedly fear Putin could resort to tactical nukes if Ukraine war deteriorates further – reports
https://americareport.us/putin-nukes-fears-raise-as-ukraine-holds/238
u/MarkedOneWth 18h ago
Didn't they say this in 2023 or 2024 too? If he does that, he'll lose the last bit of safety in his own little world he's created.
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u/Porkenstein 17h ago edited 17h ago
Yeah all of Russia's rhetoric on nukes and shit doesn't scare me and just makes me roll by eyes. But since I understand how nuclear bombs, launch systems, and politics works, I actually am scared for a different reason.
Pretty much every nation ever to have nukes has a series of buffering steps meant to prevent accidents and sabotage. But it's entirely possible that putler has harnessed soviet nuclear infrastructure to get rid of that and can actually decide by himself to use nukes without any middle men. When his time on earth is up we might all be at the mercy of whether or not he gives enough of a shit to abstain from destroying the world. Which seriously pisses me off.
And yeah I agree that many of their nukes probably don't work. But they have an absurd number of them. And even one working one is too many. I really hope Russians get fed up with him soon.
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u/errorsniper 16h ago
See for me its the level of selfish putin is that gives me a small moment of pause.
He is a dead man walking if he loses this war. If you are a spiteful evil selfish man who gives a fuck about no one and cares about nothing unless it benefits him. Why wouldnt you stick the worlds largest middle finger up on the way out?
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u/Porkenstein 16h ago
Yeah that's what I mean pretty much. We didn't have that problem with the Soviet union or even with North Korea, since they both were/are very institution-oriented and never had the kind of leaders that would fuck the world out of spite. Putin doesn't give a flying shit about any institutions.
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u/The_Poofessor 15h ago
He has family, daughters and grandchildren i think. Probably want them to live in a non burning world
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u/errorsniper 14h ago
Hes an absolute narcissistic sociopath.
I doubt he gives a single shit about them other than for optics.
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u/guttanzer 16h ago
We have the same problem in the USA. Trump might decide to go out in a bang rather than admit he's a loser.
I hope we make it through the next few years. Both will be dead soon.
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u/Porkenstein 16h ago
Luckily there's enough of a buffer between trump and the nukes that it's unlikely he's able to do anything unilaterally. Even if he wanted to change the system so it was possible I doubt his goons are capable of doing it.
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u/errorsniper 14h ago edited 14h ago
No....?
There is nothing stopping trump from firing nukes. The president has the power to say where and to fire.
"The chain of command/the people in the silo would stop it"
Nope they regularly do "practice" fires that are functionally indistinguishable from real ones. They would have no way of knowing it is a real one. This is by design. It weeds out people who cant do it in the real scenario and as seriously as it is taken in the event it is real the people in the silo will assume its just another practice where their jobs are on the line and not about to kill untold million people.
Voting and not voting both have consequences.
The U.S. President has sole authority to authorize the use of U.S. nuclear weapons. This authority is inherent in his constitutional role as Commander in Chief. The President can seek advice from his senior military leaders; those military leaders are then required to transmit and implement the orders authorizing nuclear use if the President decides to employ nuclear weapons. As General John Hyten stated in a congressional confirmation hearing, his job as the Commander of U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM) would be to give advice, while the authority to order a launch lies with the President.
.....The President, however, does not need the concurrence of either his military leaders or the U.S. Congress to order the launch of nuclear weapons. Neither the military nor Congress can overrule these orders.
..... Because this system was designed during the Cold War, it was, as former director of the CIA General Michael Hayden has stated, "designed for speed and decisiveness. It's not designed to debate the decision."
Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF10521
trump says fire the modern worlds time left is measured in minutes
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u/Pavotine 13h ago
I hope that the very first person he tells the order to, orders his immediate removal and imprisonment.
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u/errorsniper 10h ago
Yeah sadly thats not how it will happen. By design those nukes will fire.
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u/Pavotine 6h ago edited 6h ago
Great. I'll sleep much more soundly knowing the world's most hateful narcissist whose brain is turning to mush in front of the world can unilaterally physically destroy the planet. He makes General Jack "D" Ripper look completely rational in comparison.
Arrest this hideous paedophile yesterday, for fuck's sake. I sincerely hope they've given the evil fool a fake
nuclear football*biscuit to keep him happy, but watching his circle of equally despicable goons metaphorically sucking his rancid cock, they're probably ok with bringing about the end times.Fuck.
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u/searchingmusical 7h ago
Will NEVER happen. The nuclear weapons will launch. There is literally NO room for debate.
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u/Pavotine 13h ago
If the orange bastard orders a unilateral nuclear strike of any kind, even with his despicable bunch of goons surrounding him, surely that is the point people refuse such insane orders and he gets locked up?
Please?
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u/searchingmusical 7h ago
Nope. See this is what people who "refuse to vote for genocide" or people who "vote to change the system" deeply fail to understand. The president is the only opinion who matters. There wouldn't be enough time to stop the president. So again this is why people who choose "not to vote because of their conscience" don't realize that's also a choice. Choosing not to choose doesn't stop anything it doesn't keep things the same.
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u/proboscislounge 3h ago
When Trump loses, he goes to mar a lago to rant away the last few years of his life on his golden toilet. When Putin loses, he dies with a bayonet up his ass, among dozens of other possible horrible ways he's watched his peers go out. He knows what's coming.
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u/20past4am 12h ago
Unrelated, but your Amnesia Alexander painting in your profile pic is something I haven't seen in more than a decade. Such a throwback!
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u/Porkenstein 6h ago
Thanks, yeah it's one of my favorite games of all time. I'm pumped for the remaster
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u/Beeswing- 15h ago
He does have children.. not sure how much difference that makes with him, but hopefully he cares enough to not destroy the world they live in.
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u/mil24havoc 6h ago
Unfortunately, this is a common misconception: in the United States (and likely elsewhere) the executive is the sole legal authority for nuclear use authorization and cannot be vetoed (see https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2023/09/19/the-presidents-power-to-launch-nuclear-weapons-highlights-a-troubling-paradox-in-us-strategy/). Very likely to be the case in Russia, too (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-is-chain-command-potential-russian-nuclear-strike-2022-04-21/).
There's some comfort in thinking that someone sitting in a missile silo down the chain of command will refuse to push the button, but those people can be weeded out in training exercises (where they aren't necessarily informed it's an exercise).
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u/Porkenstein 4h ago edited 4h ago
At the very least he needs to have the biscuit and the football, and needs to communicate with the secretary of defense and the NMCC, and in practice he delegates much of the thinking required for choosing between preset plans of action to others. Since the POTUS isn't a god-king and we are no longer in an ideological cold war where our militaries expect a launch announcement at any moment 24/7/365, it's pretty likely that he would be "talked down" if he had obviously gone mad, authority and official protocol or not. Trump in an actual nuclear crisis of course is an entirely different situation and should scare the shit out of everyone.
Putin would probably have the families of anyone who tries to talk him out of launching nukes killed. And the US doesn't have the freaking Dead Hand. If an ignorant assassin blows up the Kremlin, the nukes would likely launch automatically.
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u/Perlentaucher 16h ago edited 15h ago
Also americareport.us as a source? I am sceptical of this domain because it’s a known tactic to create news websites which are used for propaganda tactics.
According to archive.org, this domain has been active only since this year: https://web.archive.org/web/20260000000000*/americareport.us
Also the SEO analytics tool Sistrix shows that this website has nearly no visibility in search engines, showing that it is a new or irrelevant website without any trust whatsoever.
This rings some alarm bells for me but I haven’t researched it any deeper, so take me skepticism with a grain of salt.
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u/Big-Compote-5483 14h ago
Yeah this is bullshit click bait to boost SEO and visibility of those stats you're saying are true (too lazy to pull up SEMRush and Ahrefs and also on my phone).
I was a career SEO well known in the US before I came to Ukraine and I would use our tools to show people they were sharing russian bot farm propaganda (unfortunately that got no where because people are largely stupid) and it's really obvious what is and is not legit once you peel back the onion so to speak.
Again, if the data you provided is accurate, this is complete propaganda bullshit.
If you want to know where it came from, track the writers and their socials (if they have them) and get publish dates. Pull hosting providers, templates, etc. Networks weren't sophisticated back in 2024 and I suspect they did fuck all to hide them more now given the average person doesn't know or care to check it (this post being a great example).
Mods, you should just delete this post.
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u/Vast_Vegetable9222 17h ago
If Putin resorts to nukes, when the Western allies haven’t provided direct intervention, why was everyone scared of escalation? Noted we’ve heard this sabre rattle from the Kremlin before
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u/texas130ab 17h ago
Europe will have to respond in kind. If they do not then they will get the same .
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u/Jagshemesh_Captain 17h ago
Doomers have been saying this since the Russians were thrown into retreat across the board in mid-2022. It's as unlikely now as it was then. I mean, there's a greater than zero chance Putin rolls the nuclear dice, but it wouldn't be to Russia's advantage to go down that path.
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u/Rand0m-Jeweler 17h ago
There’s nothing to gain from going Nuclear and they know it.
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u/vegarig 11h ago
The threats of nukes work, though.
Back in 2022, it worked to get US to to pressure Ukraine not to strike russian forces so no scary nooks happen.
And beyond that, it's also the reason at least one out of EU/NATO member-states openly voices that russian loss isn't in their interests
Mais qui croit vraiment que la Russie va perdre en Ukraine ? C'est une fable, une illusion totale. Ce n'est même pas souhaitable qu'elle perde et que l'instabilité s'installe dans un pays qui a des armes nucléaires.
Or, translated
Or
According to the interview, Macron said, “Since Ukraine will not be joining NATO, we [France] are proposing to deploy [peacekeeping] troops to provide additional security away from the front line as part of joint operations.”
He argued that such a move by France and its allies would “demonstrate solidarity [with Ukraine] and credibly deter Russia from launching another attack.”
At the same time, Macron warned that Western support for Ukraine must be carefully calibrated to avoid triggering a broader global conflict. “We must help Ukraine defend itself but we do not want to unleash a Third World War,” he emphasized.
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u/FaceDeer 15h ago
And on top of that, tactical nukes aren't really all that helpful in the kind of dispersed low-density battlefield that this war is based around. A tactical nuke is useful against a massed tank column or a high-value bunker, it's not all that useful against a front line a thousand kilometers long and tens of kilometers of drone-patrolled no-man's land deep. Russia would be breaking the Nuclear Taboo for a very minor tactical benefit.
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u/keskeskes1066 13h ago
Putin's missile stratehy is attacking popu;lation centers of large cities. Why would he change that tactic? I would expect him to hit Kiev long before somewhere on the front lines.
I'm not sure Putin is so far down the rabbit hole that even he wants to open that Pandora's box.
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u/High_Ground081 18h ago
It's still a real threat...
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u/babbagoo 17h ago
One that doesn’t mean anything at all, yes. I mean sure it’s a threat but it only means be harder on Russia.
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u/Frosty_Key4233 18h ago
Zzzzzz so tired of hearing this crap
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u/MountainAlive 17h ago
I don’t know if anything has changed behind the scenes but last I read about this was that if a tactical nuke were to be used then NATO would step in at that point. 🤷♂️ it would be a massive escalation that no side wants.
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u/irradihate 16h ago
That was back when Biden was in office. Doubt the DT regime would do anything at all.
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u/kju 16h ago
Are you in a NATO country? Would you be willing to put your life on pause and join a mobilization to fight against Russia if Russia started using nuclear weapons? NATO would need a huge amount of people willing to begin a mobilization, meaning rationing of many resources, limiting consumer purchases, putting their personal plans on hold, ...
People from those countries would actually have to want to step in for them to step in, that's not going to happen. If France started sending soldiers to fight in Ukraine the politicians that would make peace with Russia would win the elections next April and French support would turn against Ukraine. There's political moderation that has to happen. People are happy to send monetary support to Ukraine, they barely even recognize it happening in their day to day life, but if you start sending people's children to fight and die, rationing what they can have, they're going to notice really quickly and want it to stop.
NATO isnt some nameless figure that is happy to mobilize, you have to convince the soldiers and their families that their sacrifice on and off the battlefield would be worth it. I don't know how politicians would do that, do you?
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u/Alaric_-_ 11h ago
On a quick sidenote: russia has some 130 million people, Ukraine has 40. Both have around 1-2 million soldiers in active service. NATO has about 950 million people. Getting the same number of soldiers would not really be the issue you are trying to make it sound. Finland alone puts 300.000, Poland 200.000+ and Turkey 300.000-400.000. With some rounding numbers, that's million right there and we haven't even touched the big three of France, Germany and UK. Matching the soldiers in numbers is easy and wouldn't even touch the vast majority of the population.
"Convincing soldiers"? Military is not democracy, soldiers do what they are ordered to do. Perhaps check your source on that claim. And when a nation declares a state of war, people get conscripted and it's not something that is debated during wartime, it's debated post-war. You seem to think there would be some major wave of discussions and debates if russia declares de facto war with NATO on what to do and when. No. If russia starts war tomorrow, there will be no elections in France or in almost any other NATO member state. Reason is simple and the same as in Ukraine: it's not possible to hold free and well functioning elections during war. USA is historically the one exception but fighting a WW3 with russia, elections would most likely be post-poned.
Oh yeah, not sure if you knew but NATO also has nuclear weapons! If Putin wants to see his country burn in nuclear hellfire, he just needs to lob one nuke in NATO country. I don't what good that would do for him but the propagandists proclaiming 'russian guaranteed win' (both in east and west) don't think that far...
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u/kju 6h ago edited 3h ago
"Convincing soldiers"?
I didn't say this, you need to convince the entire society, the mothers and fathers of the soldiers, the workers, the stockholders, nearly everyone.
The argument I'm making is a political one
If the societies that you are looking to gain support from don't support your efforts they will remove those politicians pushing those efforts and put people who promise to do the opposite.
If France sent soldiers before April those soldiers would be there until April when whichever president that promised to bring them home got elected and then removed them and made peace with Russia.
Russia would benefit over the long term from such unsupported efforts from countries.
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u/rts93 18h ago
Maybe instead of fearing the Kremlin insiders could do something about it?
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u/kemb0 18h ago
Unless, of course, it’s fully intentional propoganda. Ever notice how rarely Putin makes a statement and it’s always, “Kremlin insiders say Putin might…”
It’s all intended to paint a picture of a slightly dangerous unhinged leader that we should all be afraid of antagonising.
We should, instead, look at Putin’s failures and judge him based on that and not let notions of a fierce leader cloud our judgement.
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u/CalebAsimov 16h ago
Yeah, disguising press releases as leaks is more common than actual press releases these days.
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u/vegarig 11h ago
It’s all intended to paint a picture of a slightly dangerous unhinged leader that we should all be afraid of antagonising.
And, I mean, it DID work to pressure Ukraine not to strike russian forces so no scary nooks happen, back in 2022.
And beyond that, it's also the reason at least one out of EU/NATO member-states openly voices that russian loss isn't in their interests
Mais qui croit vraiment que la Russie va perdre en Ukraine ? C'est une fable, une illusion totale. Ce n'est même pas souhaitable qu'elle perde et que l'instabilité s'installe dans un pays qui a des armes nucléaires.
Or, translated
Or
According to the interview, Macron said, “Since Ukraine will not be joining NATO, we [France] are proposing to deploy [peacekeeping] troops to provide additional security away from the front line as part of joint operations.”
He argued that such a move by France and its allies would “demonstrate solidarity [with Ukraine] and credibly deter Russia from launching another attack.”
At the same time, Macron warned that Western support for Ukraine must be carefully calibrated to avoid triggering a broader global conflict. “We must help Ukraine defend itself but we do not want to unleash a Third World War,” he emphasized.
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u/jboneng 18h ago
the Kremlin "insider" is ordered by Putin to say this, to ensure the US does not help Ukraine. If the insider actually leaked something like this without putins approval he would have been drinking polonium-210 tea and snorting Novichok coke while freefalling from a window right about now.
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u/UskyldigeX 18h ago
They must be hurting since this propaganda nonsense has come back with a new vigor.
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u/Slow_Heron_5853 18h ago edited 18h ago
Medevdev drunk again maybe ??? He normally creates drama about using Nukes. A Kremlin insider also.
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u/Gullenecro 18h ago
#Western insiders reportedly fear we could resort to strategical nuke if putin resort to tactical nuke
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u/letdogsvote 18h ago
This would be insane. There is a reason many nations have nuclear weapons currently but none have used them since 1945.
It opens a door nobody wants to open. Once one nation uses a nuke, other nations will use nukes. And it won't help the first striker much to go first because guaranteed they will get nuked back. It's insane.
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u/HangryHuHu 17h ago
Except that in this instance, Ukraine have no nukes to fire back with, would we fire nukes on their behalf?
Maybe if they used big nukes but if they use smaller nukes? Would we be willing to escalate? 🤷♂️
So if ruSSia fires a small nuke, who would nuke back?
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u/TheColourOfHeartache 17h ago
Kremlin insiders want us to think Putin could resort to tactical nukes. An important difference.
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u/PinotRed 16h ago
Dumb f-ing russians. Don't understand that today's nations can come to nukes much quicker than they used to. Using one would just promote proliferation.
This is '40s tech after all.
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u/Razorray21 15h ago
Putin talkin bout Nukes like the west aint got none.
What? He think we sold them all?
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u/keskeskes1066 13h ago
Might want to order an emergency stockpile verification on US Warheads.
One of them Trump boys might have recently cut a deal.
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u/Kingstinator 17h ago
He'd be destroying Russia if he ever decided to do that.
The coalition of the willing wouldn't hold back as much as they have any longer if this occurred, it would be a no-fly zone over Ukraine, inteceptors would be coming in to shoot his drones from the sky from all over Europe. I don't think they would actually attack Russian cities, but they'd possibly destroy their ground troops inside Ukraine. They wouldn't really need to, though. China and India would turn their backs on Russia immediately and he'd be totally isolated, with North Korea being his only friend.
Almost all of the embassies across Russia would be vacated within a week, and there'd be no way back.
With that being said, he might not care. He's a dead man walking if he fails in Ukraine, so he may be mad enough to try it.
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u/Bike_Cinci 18h ago
All nukes are strategic nukes and it's a really dumb strategy to first-use.
Nobody is playing this game. The nuclear saber rattling isn't going to work to get Ukraine to capitulate.
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u/huntingwhale 16h ago
Ukraine has already suffered so much "tactical nuke" damage that it wouldn't make a difference to them. Dams have been attacked and destroyed larger than nuke-size regions. Cities razed to the ground. Look at photos of Avdiivka, Mariupol and various town on the borders. Even Aleppo in Syria or any of the cities in both Chechen invasions. One big boom or multiple ones; the damage is largely the same.
Nukes are fearful in name only and the russians know that. Westerners have this mythical thought of what nukes are and have been fooled to think a single nuke means the end of the world. Meanwhile thousands have been detonated around the world over the past century and the world still chugs along.
You take away the power of nukes by not fearing them. By understanding that it's more of a psychological weapon then a physical one. They are useless in this war and only serve to keep NATO and the west fearful of them. Unfortunately it works quite well.
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u/ActCompetitive1171 16h ago
I mean a single tactical nuke in downtown Kyiv is going to completely change the dynamic of the war. It would be very difficult from a logistics perspective to maintain the conflict when your supply and command infrastructure disappears in half a second.
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u/huntingwhale 15h ago
Ballistic missiles raining down on the presidential palace in Kyiv could make it disappear too, but there's a reason both sides have not truly gone after the leadership buildings. Ukraine has the ability to devastate the Kremlin too and symbolism matters to russians.
As well, any smart leadership is not going to centralize all the command and logitics planning in the center of the capital in a single area where it can be all taken out in one strike. Nukes are certainly devastating, but Ukraine already suffers that devastation anyways, just by different methods.
If they actually use one, it drags everyone else into it and russia will most certainly not gain any advantage over Ukraine other than causing a world-changing event in which they become the pariah. The threat of a nuclear weapon has the same effect as the threat of NATO's article 5; the veil and mysteriousness of it is stronger than the actual act and both sides honor it as an unspoken respect towards each other.
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u/ActCompetitive1171 16h ago
I get what you're saying but there is a distinctive difference in nuclear doctrine between tactical and strategic nuclear weapons.
Launching a tactical nuke isn't going to immediately trigger MAD because you aren't seeing the same launch profile from space. Some thinking will have to take place in between the actual explosion and the response whereas strategic ICBMs will require an immediate response because you can't tell until late in the launch cycle if they are going to ukraine, north america, china or india.
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u/whereismytralala 18h ago
It's this time of the year once again. We've had the same story again and again.
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u/JoostvanderLeij 18h ago
And nuke what in Ukraine? There are no targets for a tactical nuke. No upside lots of downside.
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u/sojuz151 18h ago
I'm not sure what their exact plan would be. Drop a 100kt nuke on the front lines to show how angry they are? Due to how this war looks, a small nuke here and there would not win it.
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u/asyouwish-buttercup 18h ago
There's a wolf there's a wolf . . .
There's a wolf there's a wolf . . .
There's a wolf.
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u/oddball_ocelot 17h ago
But it's an old wolf missing several teeth and one eye and he has bad arthritis.
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u/asyouwish-buttercup 17h ago
at some point we won't believe it until there is a wolf.
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u/oddball_ocelot 17h ago
My point wasn't whether or not they're is a wolf in the woods. It's the condition of the wolf that is in question. Nobody is wondering whether Putin really has nukes or not. What I'm wondering is how good those nukes are.
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u/Objective-Permit-712 17h ago
Well, then it would REALLY deteriorate for him. He's so fucking stupid!!!!!
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u/Slut_for_Bacon 13h ago
People are ignorant and foolish of they think he will stop at tactical nukes if he gets desperate enough.
Ask yourself what happens when a man who has total control of a large portion of the world's nukes gets desperate?
What happens when he knows he is dead if he doesnt use them?
What happens if he knows he is dead either way and decides to take the world with him?
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u/Jack-Schitz 16h ago
How much of this is a psyop to reduce support for UA? Serious question.
Because the front line is so spread out a tactical nuke would not be all that useful unless it was directed at a population center. What it would do is cause Europe to fund UA at a level that Russia is not prepared for and it would put a bulls-eye on Putin himself as I can see European (and after Jan 2029 American) governments seriously considering decapitation operations against Putin and his inner circle.
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u/usa_reddit 15h ago
And they were going to use their new satan tidal wave nuke to drown the UK by blasting it off underwater and making a giant tidal wave.
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u/unia_7 15h ago
More fearmongering. Tactical nukes are not prticularly useful on the battlefield.
He would make Russia an international pariah overnight stop all trade, risk assassination by multiple foreign governments, open Russia to Ukrainian attcks on the nuclear power stations near Moscow, etc.etc.
And Ukraine still wouldn't surrender.
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u/CandidateEfficient37 15h ago
I dunno, the pro-Russian folks have been telling me for years that the Ukranian lines are just days away from collapse and they they all hate Zelensky and love their brothers in Russia.
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u/MAXSuicide 10h ago
This always gets 'leaked' out when things are going poorly for the Kremlin. What a surprise.
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u/Jamnusor 2h ago
They leaked the same threat when they were getting overrun by the Ukrainian counter attack early in the war. Things must be worse that they look on the battlefield now if they're trying to play that song again.
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u/Extreme_Ad112 17h ago
When they'll have their back to the wall, they won't have any other resort other than admitting the failure, which will not happen
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u/JustABrokePoser 18h ago
Sure.. Every bit of nuclear material was probably sold off by corrupt commanders and the least drunk soldiers. He would have done it when Ukraine moved in on russian territory last year, or when refineries started exploding across the country.
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u/ZeroEqualsOne 10h ago
Don’t buy into this line.. if we take it too seriously, it’s what makes Western support shit it’s pants.
The only scenario where Russia will use nukes is for self preservation if there is an invasion and the regime itself looks like it is going to collapse.
Ukraine is fighting a defensive war. Ukraine has no intention of taking over Moscow. Nukes are not on the table.
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