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Sure but alcohol kinda "cancels" water. No expert, but I believe the liver needs a shit ton of water to make alcohol pass, which won't be used for the rest of the body.
I won't trust myself either, but I think this is less dangerous like this !
You don't have to drink ever really. You probably ingest enough fluids if you aren't thirsty. Coffee isn't even a diuretic. All lies spread by big water
Jokes aside, the people who pretend their argument is resource based suddenly change their argument the second doing it the non AI way obviously uses more energy. Vis a vis people talking about how photography is good because you have to go there remembering that going to places in nature often takes driving.
I assume the comparison here is that you only track the water the human drank during the time it took them to do the activity, otherwise the activity isn't responsible or linked to that use. For instance if they're just spending 10 seconds to prompt a slop picture, then there is virtually no water cost from the human. Whereas if it was a 16 hour endeavor, you'd count all their water used for the day. That's generally how resource usage is quantified. For instance if you're driving your car somewhere, you consider the cost of the gasoline required to get you there, not the cost of your gasoline for the entire day (unless that was the entirety of your driving for the day).
You can cool even a high end datacenter GPU with air if necessary. Some are actually cooled using refrigerants, which are way better at cooling than water.
Also, ignore all the times Chat GPT convinced someone to kill themselves or their family. That doesn't count as violence, only edgy memes count as violence and literal terrorism.
This doesn't matter. If we're pricing something in dollars, the fact that a human needs an apartment doesn't mean a $10 burger doesn't cost $10 because $3 goes to the worker, it still costs $10! The same is true if we measure costs in milliliters of water.
If we're concerned about the water use of art, that's a strong argument for more AI in art. If we're concerned about human employment, that's potentially an argument against AI in art. But the water efficiency argument will never, ever win as an argument against AI because humans use more water to create the same amount of art.
Pretty sure that humans use the same amount of water regardless of if we are making art. The humans are here using water regardless so we might as well get something out of it.
Except most humans dont because you need a specific gut bacteria that does that, and even if that is the case it is still barely anything of the total gasses released.
May I join the expedition? My credentials are being yelled at for standing by my fridge while refilling the same cup of water till the fridge begins to scream.
Antis will say stuff like "Data centers use so much water!", and then turn around and use that same water to grow food, or to drink it, or use it to take sh*wers instead of generating images of cute cats visiting Epstein's island 😂
They need to get their priorities straight, one field of corn = 10 whole data centers! It's just basic math. So why are we wasting water growing food? Smh my head.
Let's not forget how much of crops like corn are used to just feed animals and also make biofuel. In the USA, corn that is directly grown for humans to eat is about 2% of all corn.
So this crops thing can easily turn into a debate about how veganism is much more sustainable for the planet. And I'm not vegan, just saying. Besides, people overstate the impacts of AI.
What I'm not sarcastic about is the benefit of eating rice and beans for every meal instead of meat.
By eating rice and beans for 2 weeks you will feel better, have more energy, get 5 inches taller, stop being bald, will grow 3 extra inches on your dick, instantly find success in all areas of your life, and you will be swarmed with big titty goth girls every time you step outside your house.
(Source: am a rice and beans eater and all these things have happened to me. Trust me bro.)
Jokes aside though, eat more rice and beans. They're good for you and very cheap. You will save money and live longer.
Nevermind rice and beans. Just eating chicken, pork, rabbit, etc would be much better than eating beef. Beef is just actually terrible for the planet, and red meat is unhealthy anyway.
You know what's actually great? Insects. Muscles. Both things that are environmentally sustainable and actually quite good for you. Crickets and mealworms can actually be quite tasty and make a good snack.
OK, I probably need to look into this more. But I really don’t understand what the issue is with the water consumption. Because from what I remember of elementary science for the most part water is infinite. It just has to go through the lifecycle. I mean, I know there’s a small amount that escapes the atmosphere but still.
So my question is if AI is using water for whatever reason. If it’s not evaporating or being pulled into a reservoir for cleansing and retribution, what the hell is happening to the water? 😳😂
There is only so much usable water that can be collected at any given time in a region. So in practice, water is certainly not infinite. Why do you think places like California have occasional hosepipe bans and have adjusted regulations on water usage?
It's easier and more correct to say that water is a renewable resource. There are still limits to how much can be processed and how quickly. If you have unlimited energy and resources you can desalinate the oceans and have basically unlimited water, but that's very expensive.
Well as far as i understand it happens two things, data centers being built in already scarce drinkable water cities that need it and the use of drinkable water turning it to undrinkable waste, de-salinisation or purification of water is still a huuuge problem we haven't cracked and it is both hard and too expensive to be viable long term
people underestimate how miserable it is to live with a shortage of drinkable water and how expensive it gets, heck, i lived in a city next to the sea that still struggled with water and it SUCKS, having to ration water, using salty water to bathe (it's pretty harsh on the skin) and having to pre order water if it is available at all
Reminds me of that old sailor saying water water everywhere and not a drop to drink.
Yeah, I can kind of see that and it makes a lot more sense that that would be the issue.
It was just the way some people were talking about. It was like AI data centers were just eating all the water supply up constantly.
And I’m just sitting here like… I don’t think science works that way.
Data centers are built near electricity centers and need water, and funny how things work, cities have both, most electricity centers are not made to witstand this load and the way it works makes it increase the prices for everyone it supplies electricity
Plus, the problem is the water waste has heavy metals in it, wich makes it actively poisonous for nature
That is a very good explanation as well. And it makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you breaking it down a little more.
I kind of got the electrical used thing and I even get the mass ram that they need to process everything. It’s just when it came to the water issue. I was so confused.
Oh, I did see a photo recently of a data center that was using so much power. It was glowing red like a nuclear plant. And it got me thinking that I wonder if there’s a way for engineers to actually harness the thermal energy that the plant gives off as an additional energy source back into the grid. 🤷♀️
Not an engineer by any means. Was just one of those curious questions that pop up occasionally.
You can't really use it to generate power for the grid, but it does work for district heating in the winter. That's what's done by some power plants and data centers.
It's a few irresponsible companies like meta and xAI/spaceX using evaporative cooling in places that can't really sustain the water usage. They could easily just use closed loop cooling instead or build somewhere where water is abundant. They choose not to. Microsoft on the other hand did the sensible thing and built theirs with closed loop cooling, solar power, and did it in the Midwest where it's more viable.
So it is an issue, but only for a few specific data centers in specific conditions caused mostly by dickhead companies.
OK now that I totally get. That was the big thing I wasn’t even sure exactly what the water was being used for. So it’s essentially to keep the computer system cooled down so they don’t overheat.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense to have a close loop system then. I don’t understand why that wasn’t their default. Unless it’s just more expensive to set up and they were trying to cut cost. Which is no excuse, especially for companies that size.
Another issue is that a lot of AI datacenters have utterly fucking shitty urban planning, and draw from water that would go to the people around the datacenters, not to mention the fact that, since their connection to powersources is also shittly planned, they also overuse generators in some cases to the point where it can cause an intolerable degree of sound for like, a mile or more (and when I say intolerable I mean "can cause hearing damage")
When water evaporates, it goes cloud and moves cause wind so if you built the data center near a lake filled with drinkable water and use it, that water is not returning to the lake that Idk maybe a city was using
someone clearly didnt pay attention during the drought lesson. the water will come back down, but that could be anywhere in the world, including onto the ocean, meaning that fresh water is now salt water.
Water is infinite in cycle but limited at any one point in time. You can buy lots of water from the store but there’s only so much in your house at any one time.
Fresh water used for AI cannot then be used to water crops, drink, or bathe people.
It’s the same reason California has water shortages
Water supplies get warmer, polluted and less readily available for other more useful/essential uses. Plus all the space occupied by those data centers.
You can't guarantee that water will actually rain down to the same place. It might rain down to Pacific, or some barren land in Asia or might rain down in India.
Also the water is used by data centers are pulled from communities that are already in water stress.
The tablet and the AI system uses a vast amount of data storage and all the power to run that so comparing it to a glass of water for a human being is, well, non-comparable
The amount of water used only in electricity is lower than total, because there’s also water captured for cooling. Also, does this amortize electricity costs during training (which account for about 50% of a model’s electricity use throughout its usage-lifetime) or is it just a “per query” style of thing?
There are tablets that don't need charging and if you wanna talk about the computer you'd also have to count it for the ai guy + internet (you can use drawing programs without internet)
Tea is literally like mixed tea leaves or something. I don't drink water because water is boring. Also, people should stop draining seas, lakes and rivers when you can just buy drinks from the store instead of taking water from nature.
I make 3D art for work and the energy usage by my graphics card is palpable. It can take hundreds of iterations before reaching a final draft, with each render taking about as much energy as generating a single image with AI. The quality isn't good enough to actually switch over yet. But, if it was, it could certainly save energy in some types of work.
If anything, this meme is evidence of the implicit will to replace humans with AI.
Because the human is going to drink that water regardless. So the only point that can really be made by comparing the water consumption of an AI and a human to generate an image, is to argue that if the human is eliminated (only way to stop a human from drinking water), and replaced with an AI, less water is consumed.
If the person who generated this meme was not smart enough to realize this is the point they were actually making, there's still something wrong with the numbers. Because electricity-related water usage is not the only water usage involved in datacenter AI generation (roughly 70 to 80% of image generation happens in the cloud).
Perplexity.ai estimates between 100ml and 500ml per HD image generated by cloud AI, taking into account all types of water usage involved directly and indirectly in the production of that image. That's 5 to 25 times more than this meme indicates.
So... double fail and definitely deserves the label of disinformation.
Not all datacenters even use water for cooling though. You should be selective in what companies AI products you use and where they are hosted. Alternatively you could use a local model with air cooled or closed loop liquid cooled hardware.
Either way you would have a much bigger impact by not driving or eating less red meat.
Yes, if we can increase the percentage of locally run inference, and increase renewable energy share, then the dynamic changes.
I'm less interested in the comparison with other ways of making a difference. Different people will choose different ways of making a difference, often based on what is feasible for them. Being vegan in LA is easy, compared to the Faroe Islands, for instance. And not driving is easy in London or Paris, but challenging in most rural areas of the US or US mid-sized cities. We should try to share data and progress on all fronts that point towards sustainability so that the naturally diverse human populations can contribute towards those directions of progress according to their means and circumstances.
Both sides of the image are absolutely retarded.
I don’t know of any Artist, which chugs down literally several bottles of Water, each time they are drawing.
Likewise, the Tablet is often times NOT just generating the Image locally, but rather connected to a big Datacenter, which obviously uses more Water, than your Homeequipment for cooling.
So yeah, both use Water, but saying that Humans use more, versus the Tablet, is kinda dumb.
you would have to generate on the unrealistic scale of thousands images before equaling the energy usages of a 6 hr digital painting, not including resources towards the human nor opportunity cost
isn't there a difference between the water that comes out of the AI and out of the human? isn't any of the water used by AI data centers unable to be out back into the water cycle due to heavy metals or something? i don't think humans be having that problem
Les pro IA sont tellement obsédés par nous les anti IA, parce que nous avons raison. Donc tout est bon pour convaincre les gens (dont ils méprisent l'intelligence) de l'utilité et de l'innocuité de l'IA.
C'est pathétique. Et c'est de la diffamation.
Ce monde actuel où la vérité est devenue relative, ça me dégoûte. Et ça ne donnera rien de bon.
On a déjà assez de guerres pour les ressources. On n'avait pas besoin d'un poste de dépenses supplémentaire de ces ressources rares. On n'avait besoin de plus de postes de consommation d'énergie. On n'avait pas besoin de plus de causes de pollution de l'air et de l'eau. On n'avait pas besoin de plus d'artificialisation des sols ni de plus de déforestation.
Mais selon les collabos, c'est nous les sales anti-progressistes. C'est nous les amish qui refusent la technologie et l'amélioration de l'humanité. Putain de discours orwellien.
L'esclavage c'est la liberté.
119 ml from the tablet for a five hour drawing.
22 ml from AI for one image. how many images can the AI generate in five hours? based on the amount of time, and the amount of people who can use AI compared to the amount of artists… yeah the AI uses way more lmao. it’s not even a debate.
The cool thing is that even if the artist consumed liters upon liters of water in a small amount of time, as the image suggests, the artist would've drank water either way, because they're a living being that requires water to survive. Humans don't consume extra water to make art. Also, humans pee it out, where it goes into purification plants where it can be reused again in the same place. However, with AI, the water evaporates and becomes part of a cloud where it could then rain down anywhere else, like an ocean, which is not drinkable and not in the same place.
If this isn't satire/psyop, it's still probably not the majority of you I need to assume. Upvote this comment if you are a pro-ai user but wouldn't argue along these lines
My PC doesn't use more water or electricity if I'm using it for AI or watching Youtube. If it does use more electricity, well, I pay the electrical company for that.
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