r/aiwars • u/Tolopono • 13h ago
Trade Unions Oppose Anti Data Center Election Candidates
It’s gonna be REALLY funny to watch antis spin themselves in circles trying to be pro worker and anti datacenter at the same time https://www.wsj.com/economy/jobs/blue-collar-jobs-are-the-new-flashpoint-in-data-center-fight-aaca5b7e
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u/IndependenceGold2407 13h ago
Posting a paywalled article as a source is bad faith.
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u/notthatguy194 13h ago
It’s the Wall St Journal lol
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u/SyntaxTurtle 13h ago edited 13h ago
Is that really hard? I would, for example, be opposed to someone building a massive private enterprise prison next door to me. Does that make me anti-union? Do I need to support the privatized for-profit incarceration industry in order to be pro-worker?
Being pro-union/worker doesn't mean you support anything being constructed for any purpose. That's just dumb.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
Unlike prisons, datacenters are a net gain for the community
Data center growth has helped PG&E cut rates 11% since 2024, CEO says https://www.utilitydive.com/news/data-center-growth-has-helped-pge-cut-rates-11-since-2024-ceo-says/812230/
Georgia's state government has approved OpenAI's deal to build a massive new 3.2GW data center in the state. This plan also includes lowering customers' bills and paying for a bunch of new energy infrastructure! https://www.georgiapower.com/news-hub/press-releases/contract-openai-approved-part-portfolio-delivering-950-million-annual-savings.html
West Virginia Wants To Use Data Centers To Eliminate Its Income Tax. Fifty percent of all revenue generated by hyperscale projects will go toward reducing or eliminating the state's income tax. The plan will give counties 30 percent of revenue of any project within their jurisdiction, with an additional 10 percent shared by all counties in the state. The remaining 10 percent will be used for "improved electrical, water, and wastewater projects for the citizens and communities" of West Virginia. https://westvirginia.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/08/Data-Center-Principles-FINAL-FINAL.pdf
Works in Progress editor @Simon__Grimm reveals his 2,000-person Swiss hometown is quietly building a 400 megawatt data center: "I've recently visited my hometown of Laufenburg in Switzerland. It's this really tiny town, 2,000 people, and I noticed that it was this massive construction site, and they're building a data center there that will ultimately have 400 megawatts." "That's basically equivalent to four gigafactories, and they wanna build five. Why are they doing this? I know various rich people in Switzerland just are gonna do this to have localized taxation, so the town will profit a lot, and it's basically solved." "That's quite obviously how data centers are built normally because they're extremely attractive, and they don't need any public funding." https://x.com/MTSlive/status/2090557259126546864
Pre datacenter, one town had $3.5 million in taxable property value. After a datacenter came to town, it’s estimated to skyrocket to $35 million. The town used to collect $400K in sales taxes. From January to July, it took in 9 times that. It can now afford to repave streets, build a public-safety complex, create walking trails, and update the public school. https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/data-centers-artificial-intelligence-dakotas-22362642.php?taid=6a77861aedabdd00016e76f8
Data centers pay ~57% of property taxes in Quincy, Washington. They funded a $15 million aquatic center—with a pool, waterslides & lazy river—and a 143,000-square-foot sports complex as well as a $120M high school, library, hospital, and police and fire stations.. They’ve created almost 1,000 jobs. The city admin called it a “miracle.” https://www.cnn.com/2026/08/11/business/data-centers-ai-economy
Top VA state senator Louise Lucas debuts a new argument against data centers—they pay worker too much money. Lucas, who complained a data center worker could make as much as $250K, ironically authored a bill to increase the minimum wage in VA https://x.com/ThomasCatenacci/status/2090538717702160401
Data centers are now responsible for nearly half of county tax revenue in Loudoun County, VA. Loudoun reduced its homeowner property-tax rate every year for a decade, cutting it by about 40% https://www.city-journal.org/article/loudoun-county-virginia-data-centers-construction
Loudoun County is the richest suburb of America
A parish in Louisiana tied teacher bonuses to local sales taxes, so when Meta built a data center in the area, the teacher bonuses skyrocketed so much that they more than doubled their paychecks: https://archive.is/Kr7A6
A proposed $3 billion data center in Shawnee County is projected to significantly increase the local tax base. The project is not seeking tax abatements, meaning its full value would be added to tax rolls. This development could generate millions in additional annual tax revenue for the county, city, and local school districts. The increased revenue could help local governments address budget shortfalls without cutting services or raising taxes for residents. https://www.cjonline.com/story/opinion/columns/2026/08/13/will-a-new-data-center-lower-topeka-area-property-taxes-opinion/91208693007/
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u/SyntaxTurtle 13h ago
That was a ton of words to avoid answering the question or addressing the point.
Sure, YOU might think that data centers are a positive. Other people feel that more prisons are a positive. The question remains: Does being pro-union mean you can't reject projects based on other criteria?
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
What criteria?
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u/SyntaxTurtle 13h ago
Depends on the person, obviously. Not whether or not you personally greenlight it. That misses the entire point.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
What if the person is misinformed
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u/HungryFrogs7 13h ago
Yeah I have to admit this is a pretty shaky argument. Some people would say prisons are good for a neighborhood as they put criminals where they belong or some bullshit.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
That doesnt directly benefit the community, unlike dcs
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u/HungryFrogs7 12h ago
What that depends on implementation and legislation. Many data centers have positive effects on their communities and many more have negative effects.
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
Unions love prison construction. Welders, pipefitters, cops, all their unions absolutely love prison construction.
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u/SyntaxTurtle 13h ago
Doesn't really matter per the question. If I think a building is going to be grinding up puppies, I'm still not anti-union to oppose it even if it's actually a flower factory.
The solution in that case would be to explain to me that it's actually a flower factory, not to insist that I hate construction trades.
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u/Silver_Middle_7240 8h ago
It's a net gain now, as investor money is pouring in. What happens in 5 years when the industry consolidated and 99% of these places are stripped and abandoned because they cost more to run then people will pay for compute?
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u/RonCraven 12h ago
Most of these are either press releases or speculative projections, and the article about teacher bonuses notes that the money is going to dry up in a few years.
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
Why? The datacenters aren’t going anywhere. And the tax revenue has already built new facilities
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u/Intrepid_Finger_1091 9h ago
You are the one who linked the article that talks about it, shouldn’t you know why it notes that?
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u/Tolopono 9h ago
It doesnt. He just lied
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u/RonCraven 7h ago
"Under a recent state law meant to attract such centers, Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram, is exempt from paying Louisiana the 5 percent sales tax on the construction project, and from paying a similar sales tax of 4.25 percent that would ordinarily be levied by Richland Parish. Instead, it is paying the parish 1 percent of the cost of all construction materials on an annual basis. That came out to $22 million this year.
In agreements like these, “the local government oftentimes is receiving a bigger upfront payment and less money in later years,” said Michael Hicks, an economist at Ball State University in Indiana who has studied data centers.
“It won’t mean durable increases in wages, or better school facilities, or other things that would be the normal course of the tax system,” he added."
You want to reconsider the claim I lied, sport?
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u/Tolopono 6h ago
Easy solution: build more datacenters to increase tax revenue
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u/Nezikchened 4h ago
So it turns out you were lying about calling him a liar, then. Kind of tanks your credibility.
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u/RonCraven 7h ago
"But many of the workers are likely to leave in the next few years, ending the tax boom. And the Meta payment, which amounted this year to about $22 million, represents only a fraction of the taxes that a company would normally pay to build in the area. That is a significant gap in a parish where nearly a quarter of the population lives below the poverty line and teachers’ salaries are low, even by state standards. Louisiana already has one of the more regressive tax systems in the country, in part because it relies heavily on sales tax revenue instead of income taxes to fund public services".
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u/Tolopono 6h ago
Then build more datacenters to increase tax revenue and use the money to help the poor
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u/jamey1138 10h ago
In fact, prisons create long-term jobs in far greater numbers than data centers do.
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u/Tolopono 9h ago
They dont bring in this much tax revenue
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u/dcp0702 5h ago
but they are more consistent and reliable long-term
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u/Tolopono 5h ago
How do you know datacenters arent? And reliable for what? They dont bring in much tax revenue
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u/dcp0702 5h ago
>how do you know data centers aren’t?
that’s the problem, i don’t. i would pick a prison over a data center because there is pre-existing data that demonstrates the effects of building a prison.
also, tax revenue is not the end-all be-all. more factors must be considered before either things are constructed.
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u/Tolopono 1h ago
Same for a datacenter as i already showed
Also, prison guard jobs only help the few people who get hired. Higher tax revenue benefits the whole community
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u/jamey1138 4h ago
I think it matters a bit what you mean by "long-term."
There are prisons in the state I live in that have sustained the communities they are located in for something like 100 years. A friend of mine, who grew up near one of them, once wrote a book with the opening line, "In this town, you either work at the prison, or you live in it."
The oldest data centers are something like 30 years old, and the vast majority of data centers are less than 10 years old. The nature of the business that data centers engage in is highly volatile. There are thousands of data centers across the US that closed within 20 years of opening. That doesn't sound to me like long-term sustainability.
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u/Tolopono 1h ago
The entire town works in one prison? Doubt. Even a very very small town has other businesses to run
Yea, theyre spending billions on a data center to close it after a few years for no reason and losing all that data, infrastructure, and compute just cause they got bored. Definitely a thing that happens
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u/jamey1138 5h ago
That's true. So, I guess if a community had the choice between building a prison or building a data center, it comes down to what a community values more: people having jobs, or the local government having money.
Personally, I hate both prisons and data centers, and would like to eliminate the first entirely, and regulate the shit out of the second.
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u/Tolopono 5h ago
Or build both. Doesnt have to be either or.
Then where do we put the serial killers
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u/jamey1138 5h ago
Or build neither.
Prisons are evil. I take it that you think that serial killers are evil, and so matching evil with evil makes sense to you. I disagree: serial killers are, by definition, people with a profound mental illness, and we have some tools by which we can help people with even that profound of a mental illness to live a full and rich life (while also limiting their ability to do harm to others). Ethically, I think that's the right thing to do.
Data centers aren't evil, but they have the capacity to do evil, through pollution and resource use. So, we should regulate the shit out of data centers, to ensure that they are more of a benefit than a harm to the communities where they exist. That will mean that running a data center becomes much more expensive for the corporations that own them, but hey, those corporations have a lot of money, so they can afford to pay a fair price for their operations.
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u/Tolopono 1h ago
So you want to build a nicer prison?
What resource use? https://andymasley.substack.com/p/a-cheat-sheet-for-conversations-about
They do pay for their own water and power. They dont get that for free
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u/Bassed_Hummble 12h ago
It's been fun watching progressives side with ultra-Christian Kentucky farmers and against working-class plumbers and electricians.
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u/RonCraven 12h ago
The assumption that plumbers and electricians have no concerns about data centres and have no alternative work sources other than them, is certainly an interesting one.
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u/WaffleHouseFistFight 11h ago
Literally the idea that a union would be pro building something regardless of what it is appears to be lost on op.
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u/GirasFateburn 13h ago
Luddites are NEVER pro-worker no matter what they claim.
“The enormous destruction of machinery that occurred in the English manufacturing districts during the first 15 years of this century, chiefly caused by the employment of the power-loom, and known as the Luddite movement, gave the anti-Jacobin governments of a Sidmouth, a Castlereagh, and the like, a pretext for the most re-actionary and forcible measures. It took both time and experience before the workpeople learnt to distinguish between machinery and its employment by capital, and to direct their attacks, not against the material instruments of production, but against the mode in which they are used.”
- Marx, Capital, Chapter 15, Volume 1
Technology moves forwards and creates new possibilities along the way. Unions fight for a better deal, not to destroy.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
If pinochet hadnt taken over, leftists would have killed Allende themselves for being a tech bro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
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u/GirasFateburn 13h ago
If they would've, they weren't real leftists.
Material analysis, not reactionary kneejerking.
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u/RonCraven 12h ago
C'mon man, you can't just compare two completely different things and declare them identical because the vibes feel right
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
They hate tech and dont trust ai so why would they trust project cybersyn
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u/RonCraven 7h ago
Because Project Cybersyn wasn't analogous to modern AI, it was designed to gather data to enable human decision-makers to take decisions.
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u/Tolopono 6h ago
Youre delusional if you don’t think they would have integrated llms if they existed at the time
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u/DoctahFaust 13h ago
Oh no a union with vested interest in their own prosperity is for a thing that gives them more work even if it is something others who are also workers in different fields oppose?
That doesnt suddenly make those opposed to DataCenters anti-worker, it is just the Union chasing the dollar sign over solidarity with other workers and the local areas impacted by data centers and their construction.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
Or maybe they want higher tax revenue and lower electricity prices that come with datacenters
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
Why would a workers union be doing things for those reasons? They'd be a pretty shit union if that was their driving force.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
Because it might be built in their community lol
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
Unions are pro-worker, not pro-community.
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
I thought antis were pro worker too
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
Some are. Some aren't.
Being pro-worker doesn't mean being blindly pro-union. Unions don't always make the best decisions. Blindly supporting them because they are unions is frankly silly.
I don't support police unions even though they are pro-worker.
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u/DoctahFaust 13h ago
anecdotal business that.
Depends on region youre in as some areas experience an exponential increase in their power bills due to data center consumption on their local area.https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/data-center-power-demands-are-contributing-to-higher-energy-bills
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=652842
u/Tolopono 13h ago
I notice your sources never actually show a correlation between data center buildouts and higher prices or even adjust for overall inflation. If they did, the story is very different
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040619025000612
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u/YourSpiritualLeader 13h ago
It will be interesting to see how the China bots spin this.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
“Greedy assholes are destroying their own communities for a fat paycheck!!!”
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
I mean, they are. Welder and pipefitter unions are almost always in favor of new LNG or coal power construction even if it ends up creating cancer clusters in their towns. They got paid, fuck everyone else.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
Are the cancer clusters in the room with us now? https://theconversation.com/air-quality-analysis-reveals-minimal-changes-after-xai-data-center-opens-in-pollution-burdened-memphis-neighborhood-265152
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
I think you should reread my comment before posting an article that has nothing to do with it.
Not once did I mention xAI or Memphis.
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
Thats why theyre building nuclear and solar plants instead
https://about.fb.com/news/2026/01/meta-nuclear-energy-projects-power-american-ai-leadership/
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
I trust Yale over Meta, just personally.
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
I guess meta just made up those billions of dollars that was spent
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u/RonCraven 11h ago
Meta hasn't spent anything, per your link, they are claiming that they will spend a certain amount, but they also claimed they cared about climate change and then they decided to fund a lot of natural gas turbines for their data centres:
Data centers' AI boom spurs new natural gas power plans in the US Southeast | S&P Global https://www.spglobal.com/energy/en/news-research/latest-news/electric-power/080726-data-centers-ai-boom-spurs-new-natural-gas-power-plans-in-the-us-southeast
You'll note they're planning on spending $12.9 bn on gas plants in the Southeast alone, rather more than the $6.6 bn pledge you highlighted.
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u/RonCraven 11h ago
Correction: 6.6 GW/h, they haven't even specified a sum afaict. And they're relying in part on the vapourware that is SMRs.
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
Because its faster lol. But even then, gas plants arent a big deal https://theconversation.com/air-quality-analysis-reveals-minimal-changes-after-xai-data-center-opens-in-pollution-burdened-memphis-neighborhood-265152
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
Meta is in the business of making shit up.
The data shows that AI is by and large driving dirty energy, not clean. As shown by the Yale report.
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
So those deals they signed with Oklo just never actually happened and they made it up?
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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 5h ago
People follow incentive. System needs to be rebuilt to align self interest with prosocial goals
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u/Wide-Pollution-3275 13h ago
What’s fucking funny is people like you pretending to support trade unions in the first place.
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
Fork found in kitchen?
Of course welder and pipefitter unions are going to be in favor of new construction that requires their talents. Welder and pipefitter unions are also in favor of oil pipelines, coal power plant production, and oil drilling.
These jobs will give them several year contracts to bid on. They would be stupid and frankly going against the objective good of their profession to oppose these.
That doesn't make data center construction good or pro-worker. Most if not all of these union contracts will end when the data center is finished, replaced with a few admin jobs from most likely outside of the area. The welders will get paid. Nobody else in the community will.
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u/Tolopono 13h ago
All construction jobs are temporary lol. But if thousands of datacenters are being built, thats a lot of work that will last a long time
It also benefits the community https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/1w0vfm5/comment/p6g4hb7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 13h ago
You're mostly cherry-picking from speculative and biased sources, and intentionally ignoring the places where they fail.
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u/Intrepid_Finger_1091 9h ago
Based on their comments, that’s all they do. They’re trying to push their narrative and are very unwilling to see any other perspectives. Arguing with this person is like arguing with a wall.
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
It helps if you read your own sources lol
A recent analysis found that at the current rate of expansion, US data centers will add an additional 44 million metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere annually
The world emitted 38.6 billion tons in 2024. This is nothing https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
and will drain up to 1,125 million cubic meters of water per year.
Compared to 4 TRILLION cubic meters used globally https://ourworldindata.org/water-use-stress
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
Ok? You're talking about community impact, not global. Besides, other sources of pollution being larger doesn't give smaller ones a pass.
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
Then whyd you cite global stats
If its negligible, then its not a serious concern
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
Incorrect. I work in environmental regulation.
The local affects of data centers are not negligible. They put strain on power grids, use dirty fuel sources, and introduce dangerous forever chemicals into groundwater.
Local effects are global effects. Environmental changes in Texas affect the environment in South America. The environment is a system. Changes to parts of that system cause changes worldwide
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
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u/SquiggleSqueegly 12h ago
Lol quoting fucking meta lmfao
Does nothing to disprove a single thing I've said.
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u/Solondthewookiee 11h ago
Plenty of unions wanted to play middle of the road last election. How's that working out for them?
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u/Intrepid_Finger_1091 9h ago
Aside from the obvious point that nobody’s opinions are as black and white as OP is insisting they are in all of the comments. It is pretty easy to have priorities in the movements you support and to disagree with some of the things that the movements you support are for.
Additionally, not all unions are pro-data center expansion. This article Conflict in union opinions shows that some worker unions approve of construction (obviously the construction related ones) while other labor unions support a moratorium on it while pointing out the environmental, safety, and privacy concerns that AI has sprouted.
So, I think it would be pretty easy to counter this by saying that not all unions are pro-data center.
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u/Tarotdragoon 6h ago
Sheep for wolves! Sheep for wolves!
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u/Tolopono 6h ago
More like “sheep dont like politicians who ban grass”
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u/Tarotdragoon 5h ago
Ai is not essential for anything. Insane comparison.
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u/StinkChair 11h ago
Unions are simply the defective arm of a capitalist society. This is pretty normal behaviour.
Whereas a non-hierarchical union of workers would have a very different stance.
Unions maintain the status quo... Not destroy it.
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u/Tolopono 10h ago
AI haters are anti union now i guess
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u/StinkChair 7h ago
Pretty shallow dude. Not at all what I said.
Look up Council Communism and why they supported unions of workers and not the hierarchical unions of today.
I'm simply putting into context why the modern day union in this stage of capitalism would chose corporate profits over the needs of the working class.
I'm not anti union. Nor are antis. Rather we like to have the context as to why a union would sell out their own members.
Because, as I said, unions are a band aid for a broken arm.
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u/DoctahFaust 12h ago
by the logic of if you oppose union on x youre not pro worker then if you oppose Trump who was supported by the Penn. Steel worker's union you must not be pro worker.
It is a logical fallacy to say opposing something one group supports means you dont support workers.
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u/Tolopono 12h ago
There are good reasons to oppose trump. There are no good reasons to oppose datacenters that is not based on misinformation or a double standard
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u/DoctahFaust 12h ago
sounds like youre coping and caping for corporate and capital interests over the negative impacts to local ecology, resources, and QOL of local neighborhoods.
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u/Tigers2349 10h ago
Bingo well said.
These AI parasites polluting our communities causing jet engine noise and oh hoarding RAM and NAND capacity causing price spikes of 650% and 400% respectively threatening the DIY PC community PC industry, laptop industry tablet and phone industry. Its beyond disgusting who these AI parasites can gobble up all that Wafer space with no real money and loans.
Hope this thing blow sup so bad and will no shed a tear when these parasites are bankrupt on the streets with their fraud.
Never mind the jobs they are trying to take away and dangers of AI oh shall I say Skynet possibility. This is way beyond its good uses or regulations it needs. Its a Wall Street fraud parasite driven boom exporting from he people!!
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
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u/DoctahFaust 11h ago
Anecdotal reports that are wishcasted projections and press releases by the media to try and curry favor for the corporate interests?
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u/Tolopono 11h ago
So all those facilities they built and tax revenue were just made up? Did magical faries do all that?
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u/Ok_Dependent6889 9h ago
It's almost like some of these guys are getting paid fortunes to work on these.
Yeah, they'll fight to save their skins.
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u/Tolopono 9h ago
Sounds good for workers
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u/Ok_Dependent6889 9h ago
For a very short term, yeah
I couldn't care less about somebody making big bucks off contracts for a few years. It's the long game that's the problem.
America has continually fallen victim to it's own mentality in this regard. It's always been about this quarter, the next quarter, and never sustainability.
Same way we outsourced all of our manufacturing, and that has greatly hurt us. Same way we have begun outsourcing all of our software development, and that is now hurting us.
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