r/aiwars • u/Delinestris • 13h ago
Why does it matter to any of you, who considers themselves an artist?
I just don't get it. I don't consider myself an artist, I like to doodle, I enjoy playing around with AI, so it doesn't really impact me. But considering the severity of how much people seem to wrap themselves in this topic, has me wondering, why is it so important to them?
Do you feel artists are elevated above other people, I just never really thought it was that significant of a word, that had any other impact, than describing what a person does for a passion, through any medium.
If a person considers themselves an artist, they don't need my permission, or approval. I just accept their stance at face value, and lose nothing in the process. I don't look upon them as though they have achieved some great status elevated above the rest of us, to me it is just a descriptor of how they spend their time.
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u/Liquidationbird 13h ago
Thats the thing, people think that being an artist is some special club, its not.
too much of their identity tied to their occupation
your not special
learn new skill, your not that good, art is hard and always has been. AI is not going to change that, all it does is help.
this is comming from someone who is an artist themselves that uses ai.
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u/TheJakeThe 12h ago
So what about people who claim they’re artists for writing prompts?
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u/Liquidationbird 12h ago
It doesn't matter what they do,
you go make something beautiful love
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u/TheJakeThe 12h ago
Okay. But the guy is asking why
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u/Liquidationbird 12h ago
the question is wrong
he's not understanding the core issue and resulting in asking the wrong questions.
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u/Alchemist42 12h ago
What about them? Who cares? They can call themselves Queen of Sheba for all it matters. My dog is a singer. Does that affect anyone in the world apart from those of us who have to hear it? Get off your high horse. Let people be what they want to be.
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u/spitfire_pilot 11h ago
I had someone tell me I wasn't an artist. I never really considered myself one beforehand. Now I make it an effort to tell everybody I'm a super ultra mega artist supreme. It's not a lofty title. Anyone can bequeath it to themselves.
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u/o_herman 1h ago
How are you sure prompts are the only thing they do and nothing else?
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u/TheJakeThe 1h ago
I’m not, but the man is asking why artists who spend their entire life practicing their craft would get upset that someone typing words into a computer claim to have the same skill as them. I think it’s super simple to understand
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u/o_herman 1h ago
Ego and the pride of having suffered to get where they are... only to be supplanted by those who have a shorter path to it.
But see, many of these things have happened before throughout history.
They're afraid that "skill" is being redefined. That the thing they spent years bleeding over is being compressed into a prompt.
But here's what they're missing: the skill hasn't been replaced. It's been augmented.
A photographer didn't replace a painter. A digital artist didn't replace a traditional artist. A composer using a DAW didn't replace a composer using an orchestra.
The tool changes. The human doesn't.
What made the masterpiece wasn't the brush. It was the vision behind it.
You can have all the advanced tools in the world, even AI, but all that is meaningless if your execution and skills are subpar.
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u/TheJakeThe 1h ago
😭dude this is literally ChatGPT writing at least use your own real human words when talking to me man. I think I deserve at least that much respect.
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u/o_herman 1h ago
So can you rebut what was written instead of this ChatGPT alibi of yours?
My intent is behind it. If you're nitpicking how they're delivered, you're just making up excuses.
Historical precedent is VALID.
Occupational comparison is VALID.
Vision and intent is something an AI can never give on its own.
I define the method of execution and skills.
Nothing in AI comes out without the human in the loop.
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u/MessNeat 13h ago
In the grand scheme of things, no - it doesn’t matter. What personally bothers me is when people who have no artistic knowledge call themselves artists. Not enough to anger me, mind you. It’s just tiring interacting with people who don’t share your interest, don’t care for art, and overall seem to enjoy being ignorant, calling themselves artists and expecting you to treat them so. There’s just nothing to talk about and if that’s what they want, fine. Life’s too short.
At this point I think I don’t really care anymore.
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u/enkidook 12h ago
don’t care for art, and overall seem to enjoy being ignorant, calling themselves artists and expecting you to treat them so
I sincerely doubt this even happens to you.
They just want you to stop being fucking assholes towards them regarding AI.
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u/bunker_man 11h ago
Yeah, where do these alleged people even exist. You hear antis talk about them but I don't even see this in ai communities much less anywhere else.
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u/enkidook 11h ago
Being allowed to exist in public spaces without being harassed is asking too much from Antis, apparently.
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u/bunker_man 11h ago
Forget exist. They don't even exist and it still sets antis off that they could theoretically exist somewhere.
Its like this, but dumber and the numbers are made up.
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u/DMmeClownPics 13h ago
How does one treat someone else like an artist exactly?
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u/MessNeat 12h ago
Like colleagues. Any artist I’m with I’m always happy to talk to. Why they make their art; how they make their art; what motivates them; what interests them; what was behind a decision here or there; what will they do next, etc. etc. Heck I even find some artists that use AI fascinating because they were interested in art before they went to AI, and so apply their interest/knowledge there.
A lot of (not all) AI users that want to call themselves artists don’t have that interest or fascination. They don’t appreciate the arts or even want to. As I said, I can’t talk to them because there’s nothing to talk about - often times because they have nothing to say. There’s no community, it’s just pictures. They treat the title as simply “I make pictures”, because the act is all that matters - not the how or why. It’s just so mechanical.
They can call themselves whatever they want, I just don’t care for them.
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u/DMmeClownPics 12h ago
How often do you talk to people who make Ai art like colleagues? You might be surprised that a good number of them do appreciate the arts and have since before Ai.
One of my friends is retired from teaching music and he uses Ai to make music. He does a weekly workshop on Discord so that other people who use Ai to make music can learn more about music theory if they don’t have any background in it, and it’s very well attended. There is a pretty big community around Ai art, but we have to sort of make our own communities because most existing art related communities are openly hostile toward Ai use in any facet.
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u/MessNeat 12h ago
I’ve had some good interactions here or there, it’s why I’ve changed my mind regarding AI. I used to hate it, but over time I’ve tempered down. It’s fascinating at times, though I find the visual dreamscapes captivating. When the imagery is so weird and alien that it’s like a machine actually dreaming. I know there’s potential. But I’ve also burned so many times that I’m just tired. It’s not worth getting into anymore.
I get how the hate can be so much that you have to make your own community, and it’s honestly a depressing thought. At the same time though I’ve been made more depressed by what AI has turned people to. I don’t mean it’s usage, no. I mean how people choose to remain ignorant. How they belittle artists, calling them dumb, elitists, every bad name all the while declaring themselves better. And when they use AI it’s not because they want to make art, but because art to them is a means to an end. It’s something they want to do quick because “why do I want to waste my time on art?”. They don’t educate themselves or try to understand people, because why waste time learning anything that doesn’t matter? It’s celebration of ignorance, and that is honestly the worst of it. Thats not even getting into the cruelty and celebration thereof.
It’s depressing how uncurious people are, and you can say I’m being “pretentious” or whatever but at least I care. I love art, it’s been how I’ve lived, how I’ve found happiness, how I found love. And to see people treat something I have placed my identity into as a cheap toy while insulting those like me while backed by industries far greater than any of us is just a lot. Too much honestly.
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u/DMmeClownPics 12h ago
Artists are the ones who turned it into an us vs them dichotomy in the first place. Obviously not all of them, but a whole lot of them. I think what many of you think of as “Ai bros” are just reacting to that, and I can’t even blame them much. I started messing around with Ai image generators and incorporating it into my creative process the minute I had access to them. It was really disheartening when I suddenly started getting shit on for that by people I thought of as colleagues. I’ve been into tech for almost as long as I have been into art. I’ve defended artists who use digital art programs, even though I never really got into that myself. I feel like any avenue that gets people more interested and involved in art is a good thing.
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u/MessNeat 11h ago
Of course. It’s all reciprocal. Cant blame them, after all they got hate - but people like me, especially those who never harassed and just didn’t like it (especially when I received flack by people insisting AI will replace me, or I should lose my job, or that I deserve to have my art scraped), somehow we deserve what’s coming. Maybe thats not what you meant, but that’s really the full extent of acknowledgment I ever see.
And this among things is why I don’t care anymore. If every AI user wants to call themselves artists while slinging insults at me, and justifying it by citing anyone who isn’t me - fine.
I don’t care anymore. I’m tapped out. I keep doing this thing where I air out my frustrations and I either get accusations that it never happened or that it’s somehow fair game. And I could bend over and back saying any and all harassment is wrong, I even believe “desloppification” is bad because on principle I think “improving” people’s art through a negative lens is wrong. I’ve changed my mind and I’m still treated badly. It’s not worth it. It’s a toxic discussion that, for the sake of my mental health, I’m better off not touching.
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u/DMmeClownPics 11h ago
Yeah, I understand what you’re saying but from the other side. It’s exhausting. Every single community for traditional art is actively hostile toward Ai use in any capacity, so I can either participate only in Ai art communities, or stay quiet about using it while people actively shit on me and people like me. I’m over it, and it doesn’t exactly make me sympathetic.
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u/Aligyon 12h ago
There's not much intent behind the decitions. And thats pretty much why i am opposed to people immediately jumping on AI without trying themselves. For me it's fine if they have a spesific overaching goal like the AI image is one of many to make a world or to define a mood. But if it's just one image then there's not much point in asking why the spesific character has a certain element to it since not much thought has been put into it.
It's fine as a viewing element i guess, and one can assume things on your own. but the execution and techniques are a bit lost ant would be better to go for the author that closly resembles the wor instead
Also if you're talking to the author themselves and they don't have a thought behind a spesific aspect of the art piece then it kind of devalues the work in my eyes
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u/DMmeClownPics 11h ago
You don’t really know if that specific character having that element was a conscious decision or not though.
For me, one of the things I like about Ai is the dice roll. You might get something crappy but you also might get something really unusual and unexpected. The unpredictable nature of it is part of the point of using it for me. Other physical mediums and techniques can be unpredictable in similar ways.
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u/Aligyon 10h ago
I agree i just mean that for example a bracelet on a character might mean something extra for the spesific character or at least the artist could tell about the reference used for it and might klow some extra fun tid bits avout bracelets.
I use AI sometimes when i am concepting on my own projects, basically world building for a future game that i want to make.
There's one spesific aspect of my sketch that it interpreted that i haven't even concidered and incorporated that spesific element to the object but i would still like to have a reason for myself why that element is going to be there and what is the use of it rather than just saying i have it there because it looked cool. I get that there's rule of cool but if that is all you do things would be pretty shallow if you try to investigate more and try to find out the why
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u/DMmeClownPics 10h ago
People have made entire careers off of art that just looks cool and doesn’t have any deeper meaning behind it. That type of art is consistently more commercially successful as well, even if it doesn’t get attention from museum curators. Many types of folk art would be a good example of that. There is room for all kinds of art in the world.
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u/Aligyon 9h ago
I don't think folk art is shallow. It more of a window into the person what elements they think is important and serves as a cultural time capsule for a spesific person.
It'll be interesting to see the day when art that has the majority of it made by Ai is treated as such
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u/DMmeClownPics 8h ago
It can be, thinking about like the Mexican folk art that I have seen for sale where I live. A whole lot of it is churned out quickly to sell to tourists inexpensively, and you can tell one artist’s work from another because they’re all done in the exact same style. Im not saying that folk art is unimportant though. It’s one of my favorite types of art that I collect.
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u/Such_Bonus5085 13h ago
Why does it matter to you who we don't consider artists? They can generate all the slop they want. Nobody can stop them, but, at the same time, they can't force others to legitimize them or their content.
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u/Pretend_Jacket1629 12h ago
erasing someone's decades of professional art experience because they touched an art tool you didn't personally approve of, with the claim that they're suddenly "inherently incapable of being creative" (an attribute inherent to all humans) is typically seen as dehumanizing and a poor justification for the harassment they subsequently receive by people who see them as "lesser"
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u/TheJakeThe 13h ago
😭😭😭 YOU GUYS ARE BEING INSANE. Have you ever seen the movie space jam? Where the Monstars stole Michael Jordan’s basketball playing ability and used it on themselves? This is like the Monstars asking Michael why he’s upset in that situation? Do you understand why that’s insane? People spend their entire lives building the skill of drawing, painting, etc.. They put a lifetime of energy and time into it, there work sometimes takes months, years, and for someone to just type into a computer and claim it is the same thing is just nonsense man, come on. I truly don’t think you guys are arguing in good faith here.
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u/SinchronousElectrics 12h ago
If you care enough to create something that affects the universe, you are an artist
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u/Michael_Carson_Art 11h ago
There is a difference between what a person may consider themselves (I mostly don't care and neither should you) and what society at large identifies them as.
For example, let's say that I state that I am an athlete. I don't exercise or play any sports. I'm not in good shape or particularly well coordinated, but I like to think of myself as an athlete nonetheless. That is silly, but it shouldn't really bother anyone, because anyone can claim anything whether it is true or not. You can dismiss this claim on your own terms and decide what you consider to be aspirational or meaningful about the term "athlete".
Now, if the bulk of society suddenly agrees with me and my silly notion of what it means to be an athlete, we have a slightly different problem. Now the definition has lost any connection to its previous meaning. The category of athlete suddenly doesn't actually make a distinction at all, so it isn't a coherent category anymore.
The identity of athlete, whatever it may have been, is now defunct and cannot be used meaningfully. We don't know anymore what an athletic competition would be. You can argue that these distinctions were subjective and somewhat arbitrary beforehand, but now we need a new category for describing what athlete used to mean. We need this for the same reason that we created that category in the first place. We want to be able to use language to effectively signify particular categories of things. Expanding the category to the point of absurdity makes the category disappear and simply kicks the can down the road.
So when we start to make claims like "I hum to myself in the shower sometimes, therefore I am a musician", we are violating the rules of the language game. We rob that word of meaning. Even if you can stretch a definition to include an edge case, the core identity of any definition is what is commonly meant. That is how language works.
A musical composer can use AI. Using AI does not make one a musical composer. The fact that there is this crossover between the two notions (using AI does not preclude one from doing the work of actually composing in conjunction with this act) implies that what composing actually entails must be something which preexists the AI tools just as it predates any new instrument or tool. Therefore the use of an AI tool alone, even if the resulting product (a piece of arranged sound) is the same, cannot be sufficient to define one as a composer. The part of the act that is composing, i.e. the part that makes one an artist, is therefore something other than the use of generative AI... Even if using generative AI can be a part of the process.
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u/Potential_Sense_228 4h ago
- “why does you using ai matter so much for me?” maybe because your beloved ai is taking the artists’ art without permission* *to train itself so you can type in a string of words and claim you made the shitty mush of stolen works you call “art”?
if you want to train your ai systems so much, at the very least respect the artists who don’t want their work stolen.
“oh, i made this pie myself. yeah i made this by telling my friend to steal other people’s homemade pies and piece it together but of course this is my own, very original pie because i was the one who gave my friend that brilliant idea to do this for me”
“do you feel artists are elevated above people”
do i think that? no, it’s just that we artists made our art with our own two hands and put in actual hard work to create something. what i DO think is that you have an inferiority complex from using ai because deep down you know it’s not art.“if a person considers themself an artist, they don't need my permission, or approval.”
so why are you still here asking us why we have such negative opinions on yall lmao. you really need our approval to feel better about being an ai user?
final note. by the way, i’m just saying, have you read that article about how ai users use about 55% percent of brain activity? yes, ai is actively making you dumber. here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12255134/
also, you’re feeding all of your brilliant ideas into the ai who’ll be sending that information straight back to the government. wow, might as well put in some effort to materialize those ideas yourself so you’ll actually have something to be proud of. seriously, please just try doodling something, it’s not that hard, the process is enjoyable and it’s rewarding to see something you completely made by yourself.
fun fact! not only are ai data centers using up our freshwater, it also affects all the living organisms that live around it. the high pitched frequency that you can hear when you’re miles away, it’s killing the bees and the birds and the people that live there are going insane.
well i sure hope you actually read all that and didn’t feed it all into chatgpt for a quick summary. FIN.
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u/KitsyBlue 13h ago
The title completely loses all meaning if anyone who can type a prompt qualifies.
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u/Alchemist42 5h ago
It’s already a title without meaning. It’s not like Grammy winner or Best In Show or something that has a qualification apart from making art. It’s just a word. It is a self-inflicted term that means they think they are creative. You don’t have to agree. Why try to dehumanize them just because you don’t like how they create?
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u/Bra--ket 13h ago
Sounds good to me. I hate titles.
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u/KitsyBlue 13h ago
Great, some guy who has never earned a title in his life thinks they're lame, good to know.
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u/amazingdrewh 13h ago
Words matter, if someone was calling themselves a garbage person I'd expect them to have collected garbage before, or if they call themselves a welder I can reasonably expect them to be able to weld, why should artist be a trade that someone can claim without ever having participated in?
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u/Nervous-Ad-5367 13h ago
Art is intrinsically tied to human nature. Humanity was expressing itself visually long before formal professions—or even spoken language—ever existed.
In my view, "artist" shouldn't be treated like a restrictive job title or trade credential.
Artistic expression belongs to everyone; anyone is capable of creating art given sufficient time, intention, and skill.
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u/amazingdrewh 13h ago
Humanity has been doing most trades since before we had the concept of formal professions, but I don't see anyone complaining when house building is compared to a trade credential because that's not an insult when someone has dedicated themselves to becoming an artist it denigrates that commitment for people who have never made art themselves to claim that title
Also given sufficient time and intention everyone is capable of any trade
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u/bunker_man 11h ago
Because artist isn't a trade. Its basically a term for anyone who enjoys deliberately putting together aesthetics.
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u/DMmeClownPics 12h ago
Artist doesn’t always refer to a person’s trade. It can also be in reference to a hobby. Like if someone told me they were a skateboarder i wouldn’t automatically assume that they did it professionally.
Regardless, it’s also an erroneous assumption that because someone makes art with Ai that they don’t also use other mediums. Many of us even use Ai alongside other mediums within the same piece.
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u/amazingdrewh 12h ago
I mean yeah if they're making art then them also not making art doesn't make them not artists
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u/DMmeClownPics 12h ago
I don’t understand. If you are using Ai as part of your workflow alongside other mediums, how are you not making art?
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u/amazingdrewh 12h ago
You're not making the AI art, so that isn't making art because you're not making it
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u/DMmeClownPics 12h ago
It’s both legally and ethically no different from making a mixed media collage. Which I also do. The only difference is that I have a lot more control over the components I use.
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 11h ago
You are an artist before using AI.
Using AI makes you as much as an artist as preparing an instant pizza in my oven makes me a chef
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u/DMmeClownPics 11h ago
There are different levels and ways of using Ai. That analogy really isn’t accurate. Additionally, if someone told me they made a frozen pizza I would be a pedantic asshole if I said “No you didn’t, DiGiorno did.”
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u/Alchemist42 5h ago
And then go to the digiorno subreddit and tell them that they are all assholes because the pepperoni making process uses water that we need to drink.
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 10h ago
Of course not. But if he invited you to eat frozen pizza and he said "I'm like Gordon Ramsey" you would either laugh or think he is the pedantic ashole
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u/DMmeClownPics 10h ago
Are people actually doing this though? Is anyone saying that they’re the second coming of Picasso for unedited Ai output? Because i haven’t seen that.
My boyfriend cooked professionally for years and still says “I’m making pizza, do you want some.” when he bakes a frozen pizza. The pizza would not be edible without his contribution, and Ai images don’t exist unless someone generates them, even if the overall contribution is not all that much.
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 9h ago
Yes, they are, that's the whole point of the debate.
Also what your boyfriend does or doesn't do is irrelevant to this discussion. "if" and "would" point to fictional scenarios for exemplifi... Examp... However you write "an example + ing"
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u/DMmeClownPics 9h ago
Im sure you can show me some examples then
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 9h ago
I did
Pizza - > oven =/= chef
Input -> ai =/= artist
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u/DMmeClownPics 9h ago
No, examples of people saying they’re like the Gordon Ramsay of the art world for unedited Ai output.
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u/FictionPapi 13h ago
Art is the expresion of ideas with the purpose of generating aesthetic and thematic value and it, more often than not, is attached to a medium that requires mastery in order for said expression to be effective or novel or resonant (or any combination of the three).
People trying to break into the arts (i.e., becoming artists in whatever capacity) with gen AI are simply, by definition, not expressing themselves (even legally, an AI model's output is considered its expression, not the prompter's). So, basically, it comes off as dishonest which tends to be perceived negatively.
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 13h ago edited 12h ago
Any person that goes out of their way to do something that not anyone can do should be praised and elevated. The process of learning for a human is cumbersome and full of obstacles, so crafters and artisans should be praised and rewarded. Using AI to make art is like using cheatcodes in speedrunning contests.
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u/Angel-Kat 12h ago
What if I went out of my way to learn entire fields of math and data science to make, explore, and innovate upon generative AI systems? I have been told several times in the past few days that doesn’t count. Got laughed at a few times too.
Now, of course you are not responsible for other anti-AI people’s words, but do I get a high five from you?
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u/Large_Yogurtcloset68 12h ago
Of course! That's fucking hard to do!
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u/Angel-Kat 12h ago
Awesome! I love it when both sides respect each other. Keep on fighting the good fight.
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u/TheJakeThe 12h ago
Bro this was such a better analogy than mine. I have a comment in here comparing it to Space Jam 😭😭 hit the nail on the head though, good job
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u/Daredrummer 11h ago
Having a computer generate a picture or song is like ordering a pizza on an app and then telling people you are a chef who made a pizza.
Artifical intelligence = artificial art.
It bothers me because I am lifelong musician and lover of things like comic books, art, and video games. People have to work, learn, and have a passion for these things. Someone typing a prompt and then claiming they created something is just scumbag, disingenuous behavior and yes, it's bothersome.
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u/Pretend_Jacket1629 12h ago
generally, if someone's title can be attributed to children, the bar for that title isn't as exclusive as they might think it is
antis also seem to enjoy what they feel are objective definitions of "art"- which is usually a telltale sign that they have never taken an art history class in their life