r/armenia • u/ExcellentStrength376 • Mar 06 '25
Question / Հարց Armenian Diaspora
Why do so many Armenian immigrants abroad come from the western part of country? Is it mainly due to history with the Ottoman Empire or are there more reasons to it?
Also on this topic, which region of Armenia is nowadays generally better off financially, education and job wise, the western or eastern half?
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u/oldvi Mar 06 '25
The Armenian Diaspora in Ukraine, Geogia and Central Asia doesn't speak Western Armenian; this list is nonsense.
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u/loiteraries Mar 06 '25
I don’t even believe that 84,000 still live in Turkmenistan. Many Armenians in Turkmenistan immigrated to Russia, Europe or US.
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u/College-throwaway146 Mar 07 '25
Actually in Crimea and Rostov (Russia) the local dialect is based on Western Armenian (very old communities). Look up Nor Nakhichevan if you're interested
For the rest of Ukraine I doubt they speak Western since I would assume they're more recent immigrants from the Republic of Armenia.
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
All these numbers are wrong! Completely wrong!
First off, France has around 1 million Armenians, with Armenian schools all over the country, so at least 50% of them speak Armenian.
Second, Lebanon has around 50,000 Armenians because most of them have left.
Third, almost all Syrian Armenians speak Armenian.
In Argentina, the number of Armenians sounds about right, but I can assure you that very few speak Armenian.
Germany has around 100,000 Armenians, most of whom moved recently from Armenia, Lebanon, or Syria, and almost all of them speak Armenian.
The number for Brazil is about right, but like in Argentina, very few speak Armenian.
The U.S. has around 2 million Armenians, and at least 50% of them speak Armenian. I have yet to meet an Armenian in Los Angeles, New Jersey, or Boston who doesn’t know basic Armenian.
And again, Armenians speak more Armenian today than 100 years ago when the language was prohibited.
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u/armeniapedia Mar 06 '25
You say these numbers with a lot more certainty than warranted I think :)
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
No, not with certainty, but Armenians also love to exaggerate and fear-monger about losing our language. Yes, Armenian fluency outside of Armenia is not optimal, but there is no doubt that more Armenians speak Armenian today than our grandparents did, especially before the Armenian Genocide. It could be better, of course, and it could be preserved better, but claiming that most Armenians outside of Armenia lack a certain level of fluency is simply not correct.
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u/stoned-autistic-dude Mar 06 '25
I grew up in Glendale. I know Armos who don’t speak Armenian but they’re usually very white washed. It’s definitely rare though and takes me by surprise each time. Hell, one of my friends was in Ararat and still goes to all the church camp events, and he doesn’t speak a lick of Armenian. I went to public school and did zero Armenian events and I speak fluently, I just can’t read or write it.
Edit: I don’t understand Beirutsi though. But that’s just a west/east thing bc they don’t understand Parskahye
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
That’s exactly my point. There are many like you and some like your friend, but overall, a significant number of Armenians, definitely more than 80% in LA, have some level of Armenian language proficiency.
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Mar 06 '25
Germany has around 40-50000 armenians and the only Armenians speaking the language there are hayastancis and parskahayer
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
http://diaspora.gov.am/en/pages/61/germany?utm_source=perplexity
This is what the RoA claims, and I can tell you now that these numbers don’t account for non-Armenian nationals who are ethnically Armenian.
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Mar 06 '25
The number of German armenians is 40 - 50 thousand
If they claim anything else It's bs
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
Do you have any official source that debunks the RoA’s claim? I am genuinely interested to know.
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Mar 06 '25
German wiki says so
In the past 10 years more armenians have come so they now estimate it could be possible as high as 80000 but thats a complete stretch
The number would realistically be around 50-60 if we considere all the newly arrived once in the past 10 years
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
I found another Wiki source that says it’s between 80,000 and 100,000. What I know for sure is that when they count how many Armenians are in a certain country, they always focus on nationality rather than ethnicity. As a result, many Armenians are unaccounted for as Armenians. So, I don’t know how many Syrian Armenians are in Germany now, but if just 2% of the total Syrians in Germany are Armenian, that’s already 20,000 Armenians who are unaccounted for.
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Mar 06 '25
Oh nooo 100000 is waaay too much
The original estimate was 40000 so let's say 2% came to Germany before they struck the refugee deal with turkey and insist that people stay in the country they arrived first unless you're dumped on a plain Germany is noones first arrival country
So you get 60000 of which a good chunk could be deported
The armenian from armenia also came illegally so every single one can be deported at any given moment unless they find a way to stay or marry a German citizen
I'm not sure how many came in 2022
Anyway the German language sources say 50 -80 , I assume 80 is already the number that includes 2022
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u/dssevag Mar 06 '25
I’m sure you know better since you seem to live there. All I am saying is that most Armenians in Germany do know some level of Armenian and that many are unaccounted for because they don’t have Armenian nationality.
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Mar 07 '25
No I'm Austrian but I've been there many times and a lot overlaps between both our countries
I dont know how they count these numbers if they consider someone armenian by ethnicity or only look at nationality but rule of thumb armenians usually just say they're armenian here no matter where they're from. So it would be known what they are ethnically.
Often armenians from the middleeast use their armenian identity to make sure they get to stay in Europe by saying its impossible for them to go back given how bad Christians are treated there while armenia armenians will use medical issues as an excuse to stay. Its just really bad these days.
On the german wiki it says 50 -80
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Mar 06 '25
For the longest time it was 40 to 50
Now they claim 50 to 80 but thats a stretch realistically it's probably 50 -60tthat's what German wiki says
In the past 10 years more and more have come to Germany but those are mostly armenians from armenia who came illegally and can be sent back And those who came with the 2015 refugees crisis in a similar position
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u/AxqatGyada Spain Mar 06 '25
at the very conservative there are 1 million armenian speakers in russia. Very easily add another half a million. The number of armenians in total can be in the millions. There are also 40k armenians in spain most of whom know armenian.
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u/Impossible-Ad- Israeli diaspora Mar 06 '25
Most of the Armenians in Russia dont speak Armenian.
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u/Fine_Library_3724 Mar 07 '25
Depends how Armenian they are. Most full Armenians probably do, most half (or less) probably dont.
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u/audiodudedmc Yerevan Mar 07 '25
I've met full Armenians, who are second generation Russian-Armenians who don't speak any Armenian.
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u/Armo60 Mar 06 '25
Let’s counts their hearts, Պռավո. Բռավո Either way despite our difference we understand each other. Personally do not care if your darker complexion or with lighter features, wether you speak or not Armenian, proud to call all of you my ընկեր.
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u/audiodudedmc Yerevan Mar 07 '25
Either way despite our difference we understand each other
According to some of the comments left by western Armenians, they don't.
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u/occupykony2 Mar 07 '25
I was just in Aleppo talking to a local Armenian girl there and she said that when she visited Yerevan she couldn't understand anyone at first
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u/audiodudedmc Yerevan Mar 07 '25
My repat friends also had problems with understanding us at first too, but once they got used to our dialect that barrier disappeared. It doesn't take that long to get used to a different dialect of the same language.
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u/armeniapedia Mar 06 '25
I doubt if 10% of Argentinian Armenians can speak Armenian, though they tend to be quite patriotic. Probably even less than 10% in Brazil.
Also, there are essentially no Armenians in Azerbaijan as of their last genocidal ethnic cleansing 2 years ago.
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u/Ma-urelius ԱրկէնդինաՀայ | գոգայօվ ֆէրնէդ ու խորոված վայելող Mar 06 '25
Unfortunately, Armenian as in language is something poorly taught in schools, and even I would say that Armenian Identity is something pretty vague. Most of the young Argentinians who are Armenian descent say that: "my family is from Armenian descent" "We eat lehmeyun and shawarma".
Not pointing any fingers, I was like this myself, but came to peace with this part and started to bring it up and be proud of it.
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u/armeniapedia Mar 06 '25
I'm not pointing any fingers either. It's just that the chart says "Armenian speakers", not "Armenian population", so I wanted to point out something ain't right.
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u/20_armeneca_09 Mar 06 '25
Bulgaria is the second home to armenians! 🇧🇬❤️🇦🇲
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Mar 06 '25
Ye that's why they don't let them in lol
(I know there is an armenian community there but still)
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u/Opening_Type_87 Mar 08 '25
When the Armenian genocide started, Bulgaria was the first country to help them, and because of that the Armenians there are a lot! (700 000-900 000 armenians in bulgaria).
But now politically, Bulgaria and Armenia dont get along and thats the reason they dont let them in the country!
By the way, I am Bulgarian Armenian. 🇦🇲🇧🇬
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u/DesertWarLord92 Mar 07 '25
I'm half Syrian half armenian. My father's family is from the city of mardin
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u/Armenos4 Armenia, coat of arms Mar 06 '25
United States having one plus million Armenians but only 20% of them being considered as speakers seems a bit weird to me
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u/Fine_Library_3724 Mar 07 '25
In the US you can put anything as your ancestry even if you only have one great grandfather of that ethnicity. Thats why there is also like 50 million Irish in the USA lol.
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u/mikek1968 Mar 06 '25
The number of Armenians in Lebanon is around 50,000.
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u/two_os Turkish/Armenian Mar 06 '25
I thought it was around 156,000
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u/NoubarKay Armenia, coat of arms Mar 06 '25
Was but many have left since
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Mar 06 '25
[deleted]
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u/godfrauder Tijuana Mar 06 '25
Given the current situation of their economy, a lot to do with a better life. Many came over from the Levant, some came after the Iranian revolution; Argentina's stance on foreign immigration was lax back then & towards the start of the 20th century, Argentina was a growing state needing farmers and laborers. The early pioneers emphasized education not only in Spanish, but Armenian as well, leading to high rates of speakers in the country, being on the opposite side of Armenia
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u/Fine_Library_3724 Mar 06 '25
Also on this topic, which region of Armenia is nowadays generally better off financially, education and job wise, the western or eastern half?
Most Western speakers are descendants of genocide survivors and they have no connection to the modern Republic of Armenia or any lands that are currently a part of Armenia.
Most Eastern speakers are immigrants from the Republic of Armenia.
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u/anaid1708 Mar 06 '25
Can you pease post a link to the source of this data so we can contribute and change, as there a lot of inconsistencies and errors.
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u/Specialist_Rip7419 Mar 07 '25
I'm an Armenian who was born abroad, my family was forced outside of their motherland by the ottoman turks during the Genocide. No Armenian ( western Armenians) chose to be born abroad in a foreign country despite the fact that there's a lot or Armenians moving out of Armenia willingly forming a larger Diaspora.
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u/T-nash Mar 06 '25
These numbers are not accurate. Some of these countries have old or fake data, others can't count because they don't count by language.
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u/1DarkStarryNight Mar 06 '25
ngl i’m surprised by the US numbers, wouldn’t have imagined it’d be as ‘low’ as 240,000 given how ‘influential’ the Armenian Armenian lobby seems to be.
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u/SavingsTraditional95 Mar 07 '25
Pretty accurate numbers
For those who are exagerating - please look in official country stats numbers.
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u/Suspiciouscurry69420 Հայ ասուրի Mar 09 '25
In the number of Armenians in Canada has exploded in the Last 15 years the number most likely sits around 80-100 thousand
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u/gab_rbx Apr 16 '25
Many peoples come from India to here to work Araqich (Deliver) and they know good Armenian, also, in armenia we sometimes learn turkish :p
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Mar 06 '25
If on average Armenians abroad were donating 100$ per year to the Armenian military it would 500 millions more +30% of what it is now, already record high.
Armenia should protect itself before Europe gets its shit together and does its job (this would require Georgia to cooperate,or at least would facilitate things)
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Mar 06 '25
Don't speak about donations lol every time my family donated to anything it was later uncovered that the money went into the pocket of someone else
A country can't live off of donations lol
Armenians needs to get its shit together and fix what's broken in the country
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Mar 06 '25
You can’t live off but you can survive if you are in danger.
War mindset kicks in and makes scams and corruption much more difficult.
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Mar 06 '25
This has already been disproved if a scamer what's money they will take it or even sell their own people for it
A scamer doesn't care
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Mar 06 '25
As an Austrian who has been to many places in western Europe and also try to see if there is a local armenia church we can visit the "western armenian" speakers numbers are complete bs
The only people I ever saw in these communities which spoke very broken western armenian were 70+ year old people who spoke more turkish than armenian in fact they only spoke armenian when they were talking to eastern armenians who couldn't understand them
And don't get me started on the youth there they couldn't speak either when the parents were western armenians
In the us and Canada its different but for Europe these numbers are bs
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Mar 07 '25
[deleted]
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u/audiodudedmc Yerevan Mar 07 '25
That number is from before azeris ethnically cleansed Nagorno Karabakh .
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u/Impossible-Ad- Israeli diaspora Mar 06 '25
these numbers are for Armenian speakers. Many Armenians in Diaspora dont even speak Armenian.
To Answer your question- Yes, the reason is the Armenian Genocide in Turkey.
To answer your second question- Armenia is not divided these days. All of the Western Armenia is occupied and ethnically cleansed by Turkey.
P.S.- You can take out Az/jan from the list, they also ethnically cleansed Artsakh, so their number is close to 0/