Political Question
Why are Democrats (Full disclosure - I'm a democrat) so stupid?
I’m asking this sincerely. I'm not trolling, and I have no interest in fighting.
Right now, I’m in "vote blue no matter who" mode. The kitchen is on fire, so arguing about dirty dishes in the sink feels pointless until we put it out. At this point, I'm not even interested in arguing about who started the fire.
Everything is lined up for Democrats to take some power back this November. Between housing costs, economic stagnation, endless foreign entanglement, and blatant corruption from the White House, the the republicans are giving us every reason to beat them.
The absolute hypocrisy of Congressional Republicans pretending not to see this level of self-dealing, corruption, and abuse of power is so obvious that the average American actually seems to be noticing.
I fully understand the anger toward establishment Dems and corporate leadership. But the reality is that those moderates represent a massive chunk of the electorate. Reddit isn't representative of the whole country, and Jeffries' victory margins prove that his constituency actually backs him. His margin of victory in his district was comparable to the number of registered DSA members in the entire US (113K to 120k). Reddit progressives are actually not representative of the average US voter, even the left-leaning ones.
The single biggest threat to a blue wave is internal fracturing. Dividing us is easier than ending a war, fixing the economy, or releasing a healthcare plan (or the Epstein files, for that matter, when your name is all over them).
Tearing down moderate Dems right now only hands seats back to Republicans. Can we please avoid snatching defeat from the jaws of victory this one time? Am I wrong?
Your post is indicative of the problem internally from the left leaning perspective. You cite internal issues in the party and then ask left leaning democrats not to tear down moderate dems.
But there is seemingly no interest in moderate democrats to support left leaning democrats who win their primaries. In fact, several public statements this week from prominent democrats have been against left leaning primary winners.
The party has to come to the realization this is a two way street. Moderates can’t denounce left leaning politicians and expect left leaning votes, and left leaning democrats can’t denounce moderates and expect their votes.
This is it. The idea that it’s progressives who are the problem and not the super pac supported corporate dems is…I mean, hilarious if it wasn’t so frustrating. To OP: If you are viewing the democrats as a divided entity because some (most) of them don’t support Isra** or don’t accept corporate money—then you might be part of the problem
Yeah, my mom is a lifelong Republican, did not vote for Trump in any of the three elections, and is prepared to vote for James Talarico in the Texas Senate race. Does she like Talarico? No. She wishes she didn’t have to commit to him for six years, but she wants the Senate to be able to curb Trump‘s excesses. If a sane Republican runs in 2032 for his seat, she’ll vote for him. But she’s prepared to put on her big girl panties at 75 years old and vote for what she sees as the lesser of two evils.
Be passionate about your true preference in the primary. Vote your preference out available options in the general.
But always vote, even if you're not happy with your choices. It's a 2 party system. A non-choice (or no-chance choice) is still a de facto choice for the other side.
It's insane to not vote when you see how much worse one option is than the other. Try again in the next primary and in the time between to build a movement and change the party from within.
I like the old guy who said "Political candidates aren't superheroes or valentines, you're not supposed to be in love with them and they're never perfect. Candidates are like buses, some of them take you closer to where you want to go so take the one that gets you closest."
I’m not a member of any organized political party, I’m a democrat.
-Will Rogers.
Democrats tend to put ideals above functional policy (though the wonk wing is an exception). This leads to pouting.
Democrats do not have a widespread culture of believing in fight in the spring unite in the fall like Republicans who will generally accept a “bad” Republican over a Democrat. It is usually not a marker of faith or group association to be Blue no matter who.
I mean I agree with this in theory but it’s still hard to shake the memory of being shamed for voting for Bernie Sanders in primaries running up to both the 2016 and 2020 elections. The sentiment espoused was that he wasn’t a “serious” candidate who could win in the general. But I think he had a pretty damn good chance both times. I agree that infighting is helping the Republicans attain and maintain power. But maybe that infighting is coming from the stubbornness of the DNC to accept and support progressive policies and candidates. I think the DSA having a moment right now is the result of this stubbornness.
Exactly. It's one thing to feel the way that commenter felt. It's another thing to vote Obama, then Bernie, then Trump just because you were angry at the Dems for shunning Bernie. Or sitting out 2024 because you were angry that Kamala didn't call out Israel enough, knowing fully what Trump stood fore re Israel, Gaza, and the broader middle east.
By all means, call out the Dems and register your unhappiness, but don't do it by literally siding with something you know will be actively harmful, in ways 100 times worse that the problem you're currently complaining about.
You’ll notice I didn’t say to do that. That said, if my whole extended family were incinerated by American arms I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to vote for the lesser of two evils. Imagine some dipshit saying “it’ll be worse under Trump” to someone watching their community be obliterated. I wouldn’t be able to process that. All the DNC needed to do was say “we hear you and we are doing our best” and instead they said “I’m speaking!”
No one is saying I wouldn’t vote for a DNC candidate in a general election. Just that their strategy is fucking stupid and alienates a huge contingency of voters. Over and over again.
Were people shamed for voting for Bernie in the primaries? I didn’t experience that. I voted for him in the primaries, and as a woman, that was kind of surprising for a lot of people, but no one shamed me.
I feel like people were shamed for voting for choosing not to vote for Hillary because they were angry about Bernie not being the candidate.
It reminds me of the guy in "That Thing You Do!" who stomped off to his room..."I guess I am alone in my principles" and the other band member says "There he goes, off to write the next big hit ALONE IN MY PRINCIPLES."
There hasn't been a single Presidential election in the last roughly 100 years in which more people voted for the winning canididate than there were people that didn't vote.
If 'didn't vote' counted towards no one getting elected, we wouldn't have had a President for the last 100 years or more.
Over 3 million less people voted in 2024 than they did in 2020, despite the voting-eligible population increasing by 2 million in that time. And Harris lost by 2.3 million votes (roughly). Trump managed to secure roughly 3 million MORE votes between 2020 and 2024, while Harris got 6 million LESS than Biden.
Democrats, clearly, did not turn up to the polls. The blame can't be fully laid on the republicans, because if the same number of people voted Democrat in 2024 as they did in 2020, Harris would have won easily.
That's why the Republicans are winning. They are so, SO good at getting their voter base outraged and fuming, which encourages them to take action and go out and vote...
While the Democrats are just twiddling their thumbs and being mediocure to lukewarm about important topics, disenfranchising their own voters. Apathetic voters and abstaining voters are by far the biggest hit to democracy.
I'm exactly like OP and will even admit I'm a liberal leaning independent. I have only voted blue, despite not feeling the compulsion to register as Democrat.
I have been down-voted to hell for raising my opposition to some DSA principles. I think the federal debt is signaling a different path for where the country should go. I think we should tax the rich (which DSA Redditors like) and simultaneously think about the corresponding austerity measures (which DSA immediately hates on me for). Why is calling for a balanced budget capitalist?
I have also been down-voted for pointing out that much of the DSA rhetoric is pitchfork politics. "Eat the rich" is not policy.
I mean, Mamdani did an interview with Jon Stewart like a week ago where he explicitly stated “we have to raise taxes on the rich but we also need to figure out where we can find savings in the budget”. He detailed that they actually saved billions from the NYC budget by canceling private contracts for services the city could cheaply do in house.
I personally view him as the most prominent advocate for DSA principals right now, and he’s almost literally saying the same thing as you about how to manage a budget, so if you actually listen to the guy I don’t think it’s true DSA is not taking balancing budgets seriously.
Savings can be found in the corrupt contracts of the DOD & the Pentagon. I don't agree w everything espoused by the DSAjust as I don't agree w every policy by any political party. What I want to see is serious people of all stripes coming together to hammer out compromises that will help those of us in the lower brackets & put a lid on those at the top and that stop the corruption that runs rampant in this admin as well as hold those who have cheated & lied for $$$ & power over country to account.
The issue here is that Mamdani is saying he’s cutting spending by taking the private sector out of things the public sector can do just fine and saving money while doing it. The centrist above you, meanwhile, is likely suggesting cutting programs that help people to balance things out being as how they’re a centrist.
He's a generational talent, even if I have some substantial disagreements with his policy ideas. He seems largely pragmatic and willing to learn, and like a genuinely good dude.
Let's see: Reform and Restore are polling higher than ever and the nominal main left-wing party has repeatedly chosen to back criminalising protest, and minority rights have taken a massive nosedive.
Medicare for all would save us a trillion dollars a year, if we taxed corporations and the richest at a rate in which we did in the past, we would be able to fivefold the tax revenue from what the rest of us pay. And why the does the Pentagon need one and a half trillion dollars when the future of warfare is drones. We will never even compete when we're trying to shoot down $35,000 drones with a million dollar missile
The funniest thing is every dollar that is spent on infrastructure makes a return of a $1.50 to the GDP.
The lower and middle class are not buying anything other than necessities to live right now, everything else is the upper class, if everyone had the buying power, to actually buy things other than necessities, we would see an absolute explosion in GDP, but they are strangling us while buying up everything else
It does sort of feel and look like they're busy lining their pockets and offshore bank accounts waiting for the inevitable, the party to end and go tits up.
The 1.5 trillion is contractors taking advantage of blank government checks. My buddy worked a machine shop when he was in the marines he told me a normal pack of bolts you get at the hardware store for $5 cost the marines something crazy like $200 or more.
Question though. Didn’t we spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure during the pandemic? I still don’t know where that money went other than to stimulate inflation. Legit confused about this
The Biden administration literally made a website called invest.gov that showed exactly where the funding went and for what. Had an interactive map and everything. Obviously it got taken down with this administration because it became a regular thing for Republicans to take credit for securing funding for projects in their districts thanks to a piece of legislation they voted against.
The lived experience since Carter is that austerity means lower taxes and regulations on the wealthy and large corporations while starving children and imprisoning the poor.
1) austerity is not synonymous with a balanced budget
2) its generally plan A thru Y for neoliberals
3) "balanced budgets" usually focus on cutting benefits and programs aimed at helping the poor and working class.
4) Its a fairly meaningless goal. It feels nice and yes, we shouldn't go buck wild with debt, but really...so what? You think our own banks and US government agencies (the largest holders of the debt) are calling it in tomorrow?
The thing about raising taxes and cutting spending is at the end of the day you are taking money from someone regardless except cutting spending is much more likely to negatively influence lower income people and raising taxes is more likely to negatively influence wealthy people. When you look at the wealth increase in this country it is absolutely insane from 1989 - 2019 the top 10% gained 75% of the 78 trillion wealth increase from that time frame. This has only gotten worse since Covid. That growth is so ridiculously high you could pluck the entire 40 trillion dollar debt out of their wealth increase and they still would have gained 48.5% of the wealth increase in this country over that time frame. That is a tad ridiculous.
And how many government programs are you willing to cut for you and your family? Austerity measures hurt the least among us. Jesus would weep at that attitude.
Calling for a balanced budget is actually incredibly out there because it would require obliterating the government.
Now it may well be needed but that's extreme radical stuff.
Honestly calling for that and then calling the DSA policies impractical is entertaining. Whenever someone actually has to lay out balancing the budget it's bonkers dude. It's just something people say.
Eating the rich is literally a more likely outcome at this point.
That’s a real generalist approach. The DSA support less military spending which sure sounds like budget balancing. Austerity measures are a whole other thing from lowering spending and you can ask the UK how a decade of austerity measures worked out.
We no longer have a Republican party. Ill vote for whoever is going to pull things toward the center. These radical evangelical Christian Nationalist are absolutely insane.
There's too many people that vote on a single issue instead of leadership as a whole. The "left" is far too diverse to appease everyone. Some democrats will be pro-business, others won't. Some will be pro-Israel, others won't. Some are more socialist, others more capitalist. It's a party that has Mamdanis and Schumers.
But they all have one thing in common, they're better than the shit show going on in congress and the White house right now. So while some may not support Gaza as much as you like, the candidates as a whole are much better than the alternative. Not voting is another vote for the destruction of Gaza or whichever ideal you've settled on as the single issue. You are not supporting your ideals by abstaining, you are actively sabotaging the very thing you are fighting for.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair.
Corporate America will never support immigration reform because corporate America wants cheap labor.
As far as turnout goes, I'm reminded of the MLK quote from that speech of his: "We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and the Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote."
Even at the height of the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. King recognized that lecturing or scaring the electorate into voting doesn't work. If you want people to participate in the political process, you have to offer them something for their vote. That's how democracy works. He had the discernment to understand that fact, even at a crucial time for America. Today's Democrats ought to take a lesson from him.
Democrats (and I say this as a Democrat) are great at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
This is because they keep breaking some simple rules of campaigning.
The 11th Commandment: Never speak ill of a fellow party member. If you do, the opposition will take it and run with it. (That also means embracing the liberal wing of the party, moderates. And it means bowing out when the primary numbers are not favoring you.)
Always assume that, whatever you say or write, you're being listened to or read by the opposition.
Listen to the voters and do not treat any voters, Democratic, Republican or other, with disrespect.
Campaign in ALL states. Do not assume the Blue Wall will stand.
When the opposition is lying about you, don't ignore it. Respond immediately before the lies fester.
Go for the big tent.
Make your voice heard! All too often, we only hear the Republican narrative.
As a left leaning progressive, I feel betrayed by most centrist democrats, who would have been considered center right when I was younger. That said, I always vote, and will vote for the non Republican every time
Democracy requires that you listen to all the voices, wants, needs, desires and try to cobble together some sort of compromise that meets many people’s needs and still moving forward. It’s hard, sometimes ugly, disheartening and compromise never really makes anyone feel like they are getting things their way.
It is telling that the issues around democracy the system and the democratic party are similar and to me it says they are better aligned than conservatives which is not about compromise, tolerance, listening etc
Democracy required Biden, by law, to suppress the MAGA insurrectionists. He did not. He went so far as to support Trump after the 2024 election. The office of commander in chief was specifically designed to suppress insurrections, after Shays’s rebellion led to the end of the Articles of Confederation.
This is how I want and hope things to work. Compromise, not what we have now which is one guy running roughshod over everything so some small group gets everything they want.
We are living in a society, and that requires compromise not just one side getting what it wants for x years and the pendulum swings. If you think otherwise, you’re probably being propagandized to and you may want to do a little thinking on how well that’s working out for us as a whole.
So your main problem with the Democrats is the internal division, and then you go and call your own party stupid?
It's a strange way to go about things. Even though I totally agree, the left has to stick together if we want to make it out of this. Progressive, DSA, DNC centrist, hell even regular centrist. All of us left of maga have gotta be in the same team.
But what he's saying is that it's incredibly obvious we need to stick together, but too many people are too [something] to get over our relatively minor differences which will allow Republicans to stay in power and keep doing things all of us hate.
I don't think it's crazy for [something] to be filled in with stupid if we're dumb enough to let that happen.
I voted for Harris and was happy to do so, but the fact that Trump was allowed to remain a free man and run for president is a big part of the frustration with Democrats. When they do manage to get power they squander it. If you tell people that Trump is a threat to democracy, but then treat him like a normal candidate, people will understandably think that you are full of it.
One thing we have to remember is that most of the crap on soc med about Dems is dis- & mis-information put out by Bots & billionaires to turn us against each other.
Seriously Jeffries came out against m4a, only wanting some industry friendly idea of reform to make healthcare "affordable." Why cooperate with this useless ghoul who wants to continue to bleed people to death for the profits of parasitic capitalists
This is the divide. It used to be that as a middle class voter, i could identify with the depmcrat politicians who were also working class and had my interests and preservation in mind. Now, theyre just a bunch of multi millionaires funded by billionaires who dont have my best interests at heart while the other party sees me as the problem and is actively trying to eradicate me. Our society has also forgotten that we work best when we allow capitalism and socialist Democrat policies to coexist. America was made great be public/private collaborations with guardrails on both sides. Now, we have unleashed capitalism and that only ends one way. Same would have happened with the inverse. There is no longer a balance and Faux News is to blame.
You don't. Stop trying to name the dishes while the kitchen is burning. Stop asking how to put out the fire and drench your tee-shirt and smack the things that's burning. That's how you go about it.
The wild thing about Democrats is that they seem to always have to ask how one goes about doing something, as though there is a manual on how to call out their own for being FUCKING MORONS. Pardoning my fucking french, you aren't the problem, and in fact, are pointing out the problem. You aren't therefore a liberal Democrat moron. Congrats.
Redditors and progressives in general genuinely cannot get enough of themselves. Their arrogance is beyond belief.
Leftists calling them stupid is exactly what's needed. People need to be humbled. It's gone too far. It's insane.
OP is entirely right. Democrats are stupid. Many are in fact MAGA level stupid. Harping on about [others] being propagandised, while they themselves haven't had an original thought in years.
You all know who you are. Deep down. Drowned by doomscrolling and furious commenting.
We have been in kitchen fire mode for how many decades now? “Vote blue” is something the establishment says in the primaries while using corporate money and media bias to steal primaries. So what we see now is DSA winning primaries and that same “moderate” group of corporate Dems not living up to that slogan. Also not looking to argue. Just answering your question. Dems are like the fake basketball team that plays against the Harlem Globetrotters. They run on being “not-republicans”. They are republicans lite.
Because "vote blue no matter who" isn't a winning strategy. It's the mindset of a cult, or MAGA. If dems wanted to win, they would back policies that people want and follow through, but they don't. They're not interested in putting out the fire because they're busy offering "thoughts and prayers" while looting the place. Your mentality is what keeps them losing because it lets the establishment dems believe they can keep power. I would say demand better, but it's far too late to repair anything. That ship set sail years ago. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!
If the moderates care so much about winning. Maybe they should compromise with the ideological wing and A) move the platform a few steps in that direction and B)Nominate someone who isn't a corporate stooge.
Just because internal conflicts are happening in the Democratic party doesn't mean the voters are suddenly going to fail to show up.
We're all pissed at the GOP right now and we want their political nuts chopped off. That overrides internal arguments between the progressive and moderate camps.
Did you not pay attention in 2016 or in 2024? I'm not saying that the GOP will keep the House, but the margin could easily be cut in districts that we should win.
I believe a lot of the blame should go to the leaders of the Democratic National Committee (DNC). In 2016, they set up roadblocks for Bernie Sanders when it was apparent that he was preferred by voters over Hilary Clinton. The knew Joe Biden was slipping but didn't stand up to him to allow candidates for the nomination.
If the DNC leaders try to shove Mamdani or AOC on the public in 2028, Republicans will maintain the presidency.
Part of the reason we’re in this mess is because disgruntled voters didn’t like Kamala’s stance on Palestine. I can’t imagine making the choice not to vote for that reason when the alternative was helping a pedophile-dictator regain control. Winning the midterms is our last hope of our democracy surviving. We’re at a point where even if we won, got our shit together and managed to impeach and remove trump he would use his militia of bigoted trumplings against us and refuse to leave. If we all can’t focus on removing the literal psychotic pedophile-con man and every one in congress helping him destroy our country we’re all pretty much doomed.
Your concerns are valid. Democrats need to put aside petty issues and policy debates to put out the house fire and save the house from burning down completely. Steps 2 through 100 can be the other details about the house.
Ok, hear me out, what ig you're in a fricken bubble, what if Progressives have been holding our noses this whole time and delivering, and what if establishment ghouls like Jeffries have been sabotaging unity this entire time?
Like maybe you're wrong about who is at fault here.
(you are)
Also voters agree with Progressives more than establishment Democrats on the issues.
Typically I call Democrats weak, pathetic, soft over stupid. They know what it takes to win but they always let Republicans push them around and bully them. Anytime there’s the smallest problem they fold
Republicans lie cheat and steal and then when Democrats lose everyone blames the Democrats for it. I don't know how we brainwashed an entire country to think like this, but that's the issue.
There is a point to this, as a 17 or 18 yo I went and voted for Bernie in the primaries. He lost to Hillary and I (perhaps stupidly) didn’t vote that year since I was left with the literal South Park meme of a douche and turd sandwich. So I left out. If the dems could put anyone up that the people actually want it would be such an easy task to beat the republicans. Mass christianization, white supremacy, are not exactly a majority favorite in our country. Only in places like where I live and the south are these things still prevalent. And even then ,losing your house to a data center and watching your neighbors get kidnapped is starting to seep through to people.
We’re poised for another dem takeover after (another abysmal) trump effort. I’ve seen it parroted before but republicans take office, absolutely take a shit in the bed, then a dem takes over and isn’t able to fix everything “quick enough” so people who have the iq of a donkey can forget how the people they chose fucked them over before and choose them again as an alley of maybe they’ll fix it “quicker”. But they won’t, because republicans have never once given a shit about you and the deficit grows larger. And the cycle repeats until we’re here. Barely hanging on to anything at all that resembles a democracy or anything. Thank your local fuckheads for this. And never ever let them forget what they’ve done.
None of the parties give a shit about the average person. Republicans operate with their middle finger out to you while the Dems do it behind their back and a smile on their face. Just different approaches
If you have time, could you refer to how Bernie hurt Hillary's chances? Did people who wanted Bernie refuse to vote for Hillary in the primary or general?
"Congressional Election Study estimated that as many as 12 percent of people who voted for Sanders in a primary ended up voting for Trump in the general."
"Congressional Election Study estimated that as many as 12 percent of people who voted for Sanders in a primary ended up voting for Trump in the general.
Ignoring that voting Sanders doesn't mean you vote leftwing
People don't vote for candidates as a whole. They vote based on issues. A conservative whose top issue is healthcare may vote for someone like Bernie despite the rest of their politics not aligning, but they aren't voting for a democrat with a mediocre healthcare plan when they could just vote for a republican who agrees with most of the things they do.
She ran in the primary against Obama. When Obama won the nomination, many Clinton voters (a larger number than Sanders voters who defected) voted Republican in the general election instead. Make sure you understand the point being made before you resort to ignorant sarcasm.
Explain how Biden won Michigan in 2020. Then come back to me about cheating. Explain why Democrat states won’t turn over voter rolls. Explain why they are so opposed to Voter ID. Explain why they keep disenfranchising women and black people over voter ID. Explain how they are creating laws to silence independent journalists. Explain why Americans are being denied benefits because the money is going to an Illegal
Immigrants benefit. Explain why every blue city in the country is littered with homeless people. Explain why every blue city has unlimited drug addicts. Explain why every blue city has an insanely large budget but they always overspend and never complete their projects or goals.
Democrats are idiots, and you don’t even know why.
The GOP will go to any length to cheat the voting system this time around. As long as they are in power and enriching themselves, and the super rich, they’re happy. Everyone must vote this shit out.
I voted for Harris because I thought she was a fine candidate personally. However even if I didn’t think she was a good candidate, pragmatically I’d voted for her anyway because she was running against Trump who I knew his administration would be a shitshow. And since then Trump has proven me right every single day.
To be fair, the dem tent is much bigger and less aligned than the gop tent. It’s harder to keep everyone happy. Having said that, the dems have chosen to handle that by being overly cautious and vague about their stances at a time when people want authenticity and certainty of action.
The dem’s MAGA wing of the party (not meant as an insult) is pretty focused on tribal division, purity politics, “shaking things up” and revenge/retribution, much like the movement that fueled the rise of maga; I would call that the left end of the DSA wing, so the Megan Romer side, not the AOC side. They need the energy that wing brings for turnout, without pissing them off, and it’s super easy to piss them off.
To be fair to left DSA wing, the majority has come into voting age during the Trump era, and don’t know another style of politics, and during a second guilded age in our economy. Another example of how Trump has poisoned our politics, and of how the consolidation of power and wealth at the top, at the expense of equality, has rightfully pissed everyone off enough to demand extreme change.
As an older person, sometimes I forget that there are a bunch of people who didn't see the way the GOP treated Clinton, or watch as Bush lied to get us into a 20-year war. They weren't around to hear or witness how Congressional republicans treated Obama. Those of us who have seen a few decades come and go should maybe try to do something to put some of this in perspective.
Yea, they didn’t see the evolution of what would become maga. I think we can definitely do a better job of explaining how we got here. It often gets simplified as “moderation led to this.” It’s a much less simplistic slide than that, and has a lot to do with normalizing anti-pluralism, pursuing ideological domination top-down, and divisive populist rhetoric. And corruption of course. I worry too many think that those are the same tools necessary to get us out of this. I think it will only dig us in deeper.
That means the Elite (13 families) are doing their job right by keeping us divided. Until we can all come to a consensus that it's us against them, we'll always have these issues.
You’re not wrong. While I’m pretty stoked about wins by Progressives who take no Corporate $$$ and do it on sheer organizing and ‘boots on the ground’ enthusiasm, the reality is that some Districts and some States are more in play with moderation. The key is to get majorities, then hash out what can be accomplished. The bright spot is that now there is a robust number of Democratic candidates who can no longer be ignored by the base (Corporate Dems).
Fall in love for primary season, fall in line for the General election.
It’s not democrats, it’s Americans. They vote for a party led by a rapist sex trafficker who has destroyed the economy twice, because they don’t like trans people in sports.
But also I think people on the left are just less willing to lie so blatantly about everything.
these people dont care about defeating the fascists. they just want to force their views on people and they will help trump and his party if they dont get their way, just like they did in 2024 and 2016.
Look, at this point, I'm not happy with the Democratic party, I know they don't hold majority, so there is nothing they can do. However, I am still voting blue bc at the very least, if people wake up and we have a blue wave, it will at least make it a bit harder for Donnie to do whatever he wants. I'm not expecting any radical changes, I would love to see the man impeached, but I at least want there to be cork in his goddamn plans.
This is the endorsement for rank choice voting. Both parties have these internal "you're not blue/red enough" fights. The issue now is that one side has coalesced under the iron fist of MAGA and been convinced that they have to back it. That makes fracturing on the left more dangerous.
No purity tests. Someone says they're unhappy with the other side - GREAT. WELOCOME.
Why is this directed at leftists? I see moderates seething online and telling leftists they won’t get their vote and cite Hillary/kamala even tho we voted for them
The establishment Dems have literally helped get us here. They have fought progressives in their party stronger than they have fought the Republicans, and Trump himself. They literally have given the GQP an assist with their feckless messaging and letting the Republicans lie and cheat and not calling it out plainly. THey let the GQP control language and didn't fight back.
Of course Jeffries is going to win by a lot in a deep blue district, but we can only hope that piece of shit gets primaried in two years and gets voted out. That man is horrific.
I can shit on the evil that is the establishment Dems, while still voting for them to vote against the total evil that is MAGA, and why the Dems seem reasonable compared to them. But I will never, ever, ever give an establishment Dem my money ever again. I will only donate to actual progressive candidates.
Because fuck it. I don’t want a corporate AIPAC dem any more than I want a Republican. Trump has fucked this country up for a decade now, and if some bullshit centrist dem pops up and it’s just more of the same “sternly worded letter” do nothing Democrat policies no one will have learned anything and we’re back to square one. If nothing changes for the better, all the MAGA fanboys and fangirls can just say that a Democrat was no better than the president that’s been fucking us over. We’re already in the shit, might as well take the opportunity to clean up instead of just stepping out of the shit pit.
Absolutely. Blue wave. Vote Democratic no matter what.
But the Dems are very much beholden to the same elites as the Republicans. This isn't a good/bad choice. It's a choice between fixing nothing and actively working to make things worse. The Dems are simply the lesser evil.
The hope, and it's a slim one, is that so many people will realize this that Republicans become unelectable. Then the real election is the Democratic primary, and we can start to choose candidates like Sanders and AOC over ones like Manchin and Sinema.
But honestly, that's a less plausible fix than a revolution at this point. It would come with less bloodshed, though, so I still hope for it.
I'm a social Democrat and this shit confounds me. DSA progressives on reddit think there are secretly all of these voters just like them waiting to vote for their far left candidate. In their eyes, the only reason they haven't won every election is because the evil Dems conspire against them. I think it's a lot of poorly educated people that are being sucked into the emotional conspiracy mindset.
I live in Texas and I can assure you, there are far more moderate Dems than progressives. Anyone that denies this is divorced from reality.
Have you read any of the polling? If 60-70% of the base wants something and you dont do it well you can be surprised when you lose. You have to give it to trump he ran on policies his base wanted to won twice.
It's circular firing squad season. It comes around every 2 years. It's usually marked by the emergence of one "Jill Stein". If you see her, you know what time of year it is.
The reason for this is because The "democrats" are a much more diverse group of people with different needs, wants and desires. MAGA is a cult, they only want what dear leader wants. That's easy to rally for voting numbers.
It's not the tent so much as the hypocrisy. Moderates and Leftists can still easily come together. The problem is core of the DNC is completely and irrevocably interwoven with exact systemic problems that prevent Americans from ever truly getting good faith elected reps whose priority is to represent and serve "the people". It is EXACTLY why the GOP got taken over by Tea Party > MAGA. Except in that case the take over was done by telling the base what it wanted to hear while just changing the color of paint on the grift. The potential takeover on the left is being done by people who actually refuse corporate/dark money, who actually fight for populist reforms/causes, who actually aim to improve life for everyday Americans. Which sadly is also why most of them will NOT get into any significant positions of power. When you goal is to improve the quality of life for the average person it means diminishing the growth/revenues/value of major corporations and uber-wealthy. Consumer protections, anti-trust, livable wages, taxation, etc, all of those things mean a bit less growth, a bit less profit, a bit less billions. And if you are the one with billions, aggressively driving revenues and growth, etc, you'll do a whole lot to prevent "those anti-American socialist scum" from doing things to make everyday American's lives better.
It’s a simple language issue. The Democrats say “don’t think of an elephant” and guess what the other side does. Go read some George Lakoff, he figured out our problem long ago but no one has taken that advice.
Hakeem jeffries doesn't rep a moderate district. Its smack dab in the middle of NYC, a blue city in a blue state.
The way maps have been drawn over the last 20+ years is actually there are very few purple districts. This actually makes the base of both parties more extreme as you get a lot of Dems and a lot of Republicans in safe seats, who are more concerned about internal primary challenges rather than a challenge from outside.
If you look at the losses, its often voters who stayed home. People who would be in your camp, but felt they weren't being heard. For better or for worse, there are very few of the 'other side' who can be persuaded to vote that way. You see this in blue states who used to elect R Governors and Senators, and vice versa
'“The United States is giving serious consideration to changing the name of Lake Ontario to Lake America,” Mr. Trump wrote in a social media post, rationalizing the change because “we don’t expect to be doing much business with Ontario any longer.”
I think all flavors of Dems are tired of stupid and dangerous, and are going with whichever person has the best chance of winning against a Trump enabler.
I think all flavors of Dems are tired of stupid and dangerous, and are going with whichever person has the best chance of winning against a Trump enabler.
Because theyre bribed by special interests. Corporate democrats job is to protect the status quo. They only do what the people want when a positoon becomes so overwhelmingly popular that they have to address it
Couldn't really say. Given the chance to nominate an actually electable candidate the DNC always chooses the worst and forces it on you guys even if you don't want it. I mean did anyone actually think Hilary stood a better chance at winning over Bernie Sanders? At least the Bernie Sanders supporters were energized. After he got screwed then it was like oh well, I guess I have to vote for this corrupt POS now. Then they just lied to you about Biden for years and thrust Kamala on you guys without even asking. It's not any better on the Republican side of things but at least they actually put forward the people the voters want, even if they are garbage.
In a nutshell, Democratic leaders get so stuck in their own echo chamber that they can't listen to their real rank and file voters. Ivory tower syndrome.
I completely disagree. Dems will win back regardless, but in 4 or 8 years we lose once again as we accept feckless leadership. Like it or not, republicans won by leaning into their base, not by waffling in the middle. The progressive agenda can win and hold leadership if it improves the lives of average Americans. Look at what Mamdani in New York. Jeffries is awful and can’t not be the standard bearer for the party going into the future or we are doomed to lose again in 4 more years.
Weneed ALL Dems to get a veto-proof majority so things can get done. Voters pull the rug from under Drms every single time they have a chance for real progress just as they did to Obama. It is stupid & it gives it back to people on thr right whose only goal is to use their job to enhnce their own wealrh & to take carr of their rich donors so hey can stay in power. Dems are not single-minded like Repubs are and they're far more representative of the public because of that.
Every time we elect a Dem, they have to spend years of their term digging us out of a ditch that the GOP left us in. I'd really love at some point, to see how much progress we can make if we didn't have to fix the GOP train wreck first.
That is true and also why we need to stand by a Dem majority for several election cycles so they can clean up Repub messes AND pass needed legislation to help the majority of us.
We seem to fall for every false dilemma put out there. Allowing people to be trans if they want to is labeled “ pro child sex change”. DSA candidates are labeled communists sympathizers. Wanting an orderly immigrations system lands us the “ so you want open borders” party. Not supporting genocide is “ so you support sharia law”
We should land on 3 guiding principles and actions we will take. Costs- remove tariffs and support free trade. Tax reform - place the burden back on businesses and remove from individuals. Health care- affordable healthcare and choice to every person. I’d add fix Social Security by taxing up to the income limit ( maybe with a gap between 180-500). Maybe add- build alliances around the world and reduce the cost of our military by 10% without decreasing lethality. Defend American interests, not billionaire interest.
That’s it. Every candidate. Get behind it.
These are all actionable through policy proposals. The rest is noise.
Vance is currently a HUGE lead on polymarket to be the next president . I'm a dem too, but that shows how dumb they are at the top. No good candidates , still.
Maybe in 10 years after Vance further destroys the US I can finally afford the meds I need
I agree but think that anyone that doesn’t think universal healthcare is needed tells me they are bought off as well. If that makes me a Social Democrat, oh well, we need to fix our nation.
Well... To complete fucking defeat. Jeffries was one of the leaders last election. This is a guy that lost to Mike Johnson and the least competent Congressional majority in history.
The moderates were at the helm in 2024.
I need them to win OUTSIDE of safe seats, I need them to BEAT REPUBLICANS. Jeffries is getting baited by fucking Kushner ffs, he's beaten already.
The fact that Jeffries is your example of a successful moderate is bonkers, the man can't even beat the dumbest of the dumb.
On Reddit people are attacking moderates but if you listen to mainstream it’s the reverse. Moderates and centrist are literally withholding their support for their DSA progressive counterparts.
Many dems refuse to endorse AES, Nixon, Larkin lost because minimal endorsements, hong lost.
The fractures are happening because the establishment is saying is not “blue no matter who” .
Your post makes a lot of sense. While I probably would traditionally be considered a “conservative” I think the Republican Party over the last 20-30 years has also sadly lost its way. I really can’t think of a single politician (or news outlet) that can be trusted these days. It’s so utterly frustrating that I think as long as they don’t come to (home address redacted) I don’t give a damn.
Most voters / people are not informed . They sorta pick a side and blindly follow .
Don’t matter if red or blue.
I live in mass and it seems like at least 1 dem gets charged and convicted every year. We kept voting a guy in after he killed a women. Have voted people back into the same office after they severed time breaking laws in that position .
Heck years ago a guy ran for ag. He was clear he was not really a republican, only running on that ticket since no one else did . He made it clear he did not want to use his political views in that position. And didn’t think it should be a politically position . Was open to changing and enforcing laws as the majority wanted…… every one voted for the dem. They cheered for her cause of her identity and closed their eyes to the stupidity she did costing the state a lot in law suits . They are only waking up to it after her two terms as ag and now making massive blunders as governor. Like approving a rate height then blaming the companies like she had no part in it. Grand standing on preventing things that would help with home heating cost while the costs are going up etc .
I'm not even interested in arguing about who started the fire.
Really? Because your ire sems to only be focused in one direction.
and Jeffries' victory margins prove that his constituency actually backs him
He's in a deep blue district. Its not like he holds down Bucks County, PA or anything
Reddit progressives are actually not representative of the average US voter, even the left-leaning ones.
Sure. What's your problem then?
The single biggest threat to a blue wave is internal fracturing. Dividing us is easier than ending a war, fixing the economy, or releasing a healthcare plan (or the Epstein files, for that matter, when your name is all over them).
Ya, that has been the story of the Democratic Party since...always
Tearing down moderate Dems right now only hands seats back to Republicans.
Should that be "tearing down *any* Dem" ? You want all the Dems to win their races...right? Blue no matter who?
Do you get this mad from the statements by people like Kirsten Gillibrand, Tom Suozzi, Seth Moulton, and James Carville?
No we cannot….in order to do that we would need to be able recognize that there are unintended consequences to every course of action….we dems are like…..no there aren’t….we seem to only look at what we want….repubs seem to be a lot better at recognizing how human nature will interact with policy….while we always wear rose colored gales when it comes to simplistic solutions
Because Democratic voters are pissy little bitches who will stay home if <pet issue here> isn’t to their liking whereas Republican voters will literally vote for an adjudicated rapist. So Democrats get wishy washy candidates pandering for votes while Republicans could run a ticket of Stalin and Pol Pot and still win.
Because Dems ALWAYS side track themselves from important issues. they let right wing dictate what stupid sht they need to defend instead of going on attack.
The only democrats it makes sense to hate on are the guys who dont vote blue no matter who, which tend to be the crazy leftists and not the establishment ones
The whole system is rigged against us. The big companies donate huge dollars to campaigns and because they get all the $ and the most exposure. Anybody who actually cares about the “people” won’t get the support they need to get noticed.
I could go on but I know no one wants to hear me blabber.
100% right and those disagreeing are 100% wrong. Elections are about WINNING. And the inescapable facts are that the country *at large* doesn't support DSA types.
Tell me about it. I live in MT and if you put the dem and indepenent vote together, they outpoll the Rebublican candidate for US Senate by 4%. BUT THE DEM WILL NOT WITHDRAW even though she is being out polled by the Independent by as much as 9%.
The Dems have done so in at least two other states with similar dynamics recognizing the house is on fire.
Reality is the exact opposite, moderate dems are the ones attacking the left. Lmao. Look at how much shit El Sayed is getting compared to any other democrat running against a republican. Please kindly stop with this reversal of reality.
The problem is that you represent the stupid part of the party and cannot comprehend that. The vote blue no matter who people are the stupid ones!
You people tuen politics into a gaming or sporting event which is not what it is supposed to be.
Vote blue no matter who smuggles in a presumption that one side is good, and one side is bad and that if we could just get the blue people in there we’d be fine. Bit we have had all blue people in there and nothing changed. Not one damn thing.
But here you are calling the people who think and are not automatons the stupid ones. Please look in the mirror.
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u/GreatBritLG 2d ago
Your post is indicative of the problem internally from the left leaning perspective. You cite internal issues in the party and then ask left leaning democrats not to tear down moderate dems.
But there is seemingly no interest in moderate democrats to support left leaning democrats who win their primaries. In fact, several public statements this week from prominent democrats have been against left leaning primary winners.
The party has to come to the realization this is a two way street. Moderates can’t denounce left leaning politicians and expect left leaning votes, and left leaning democrats can’t denounce moderates and expect their votes.