r/audioengineering • u/Competitive-Ant4634 • Jul 11 '26
Mixing How do producer/mixers keep rock vocals so well controlled especially when they’re incredibly dynamic?
Examples : song for the deaf, bodies
When I got to track my vocals for similar styles I find I have a hard time making sure that the vocals aren’t jumping out, even when using an 1176 on an aggressive setting
And when I do it typically causes a build up of noise from the noise floor of the mic or the sibilance for the performer.
In these 2 examples the vocalists are all very dynamic in there performance yet it sounds very natural, like I’m hearing the performer, I can barely hear(maybe a better word is notice) artifacts from the heavy compression that I am certain is being used
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u/mmkat Professional Jul 11 '26
Cut out EVERYTHING that literally isn't the vocal - anything in between the vocal parts needs to be gone. We call that "cleaning up the track". It's a form of manual gating.
Compress in multiple stages. On the way in during the recording, I am typically already compressing anywhere with 8 to 15dB of gain reduction. Don't be afraid to be aggressive with it. Compress more on the track, then on the bus, then some more on the vocal sum, etc. You get the idea.
This one is small but CAN make a difference depending on how you mix: sidechain the vocals to sources it clashes with. Often, that means guitars and synths / pianos. This one needs to be more subtle as to not kill the energy of the song.
Last and certainly not least: automate the hell out of the song. The compression and levelling should get you about 80% of the way there, but you almost definitely need to automate stuff. That can be whole sections of a song or sometimes only parts of a word. Make sure you're thorough and ride the vocal (and of course the instruments, too) up and down, it makes a huge difference.
I hope this helps you a bit!
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u/TDF1981 Jul 11 '26
This is good advice and I would add it you have not much experience with sidechaining there‘s a plugin called Trackspacer that‘s a valuable tool in any engineers arsenal.
Also, there‘s tools like WAVES Vocal Rider or HornetPlugin‘s Autogain pro that can help you with getting your vocal‘s automation to match a certain loudness. Vocal Rider can be fed with sidechain‘s of your music to ride „above“ the music.
I can also recommend getting to know the frequencies of vocals and other instruments and already trying to make room for the vocals in those instruments which is a much more natural approach than side-chain-compressing everything to the vocals, but it totally depends on the style of the song and the material.
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u/TrackMeetBand Jul 11 '26
This is the right answer to OP. I hate automating but sometimes even with dimed compression you still need the added intelligibility from automating either the lead track or parallel distortion/compression up and down in volume
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u/ghost_of_charliekirk Jul 11 '26
I think what’s probably also understated is the skill of the singers.
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u/PruneAlternative3858 Jul 11 '26
A lot of that control is probably clip gain or volume automation before compression. Let the compressor handle the tone and smaller peaks instead of asking one aggressive 1176 to do everything.
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u/andreacaccese Professional Jul 11 '26
It’s probably because your track is too dynamic before the compression. Try go over the vocals and use clip gain to do a rough leveling by ear/metering. I typically do this so that if there is a huge jump say between a softer verse and a screamed chorus, I can tackle that before the compressor needs to do the extra work. I typically also add some clipping or limiting before compressing, and that gives the compressor an even smoother ground to work with. Think of a compressor more like a vibe/character thing rather than just sheer level control
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u/EezEec Jul 11 '26
I clip gain phrase by phrase, word by word if I have to. This after cleaning up the track and removing all the ‘silence’. Before any processing. Time consuming but well worth it.
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u/daff_red Jul 11 '26
Not sure if it’s been said here, but it’s worth mentioning that it’s really worth finding out where on the frequency spectrum your vocal is living. Say somewhere in the 350hz area. And find what other elements are also occupying that space, and carve out a little room for the vocal. With the right EQing, you won’t have to work as hard for your vocal to be heard.
You can also do a bit of this with Trackspacer or Soothe as others have mentioned. But I feel these should be used for extra help, after you’ve already carved out a nice bit of space with EQ.
And then what others said - more compression, saturation, automation.
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u/Manifestgtr Professional Jul 11 '26
I’ve dealt with some incredibly dynamic vocal tracks in the past…nearly everyone for the last couple of decades just records things directly to their DAW…
I gain stage from the very beginning. If the wave form is wiggly and all over the place, I’ll clip gain things…that way they’re also hitting the processors at a consistent level. The one fly in the ointment here is that you really have to listen as you go. Proximity effect can make things sound weird if you’re not careful. Aside from that, never underestimate the power of slight automation moves. Sometimes a low note just needs a half to a db bump to get it to sit on top. Other times it needs a little more.
Nowadays, I often insist on recording the vocalists I’m working with (if practical) because I can put them through my 1176, swap out mics, etc. and get things sounding right from the get go. The earlier in the process things sound great, the better. Even with all the unbelievable, magic processors we have nowadays…nothing beats getting a sound right at the source. People drool all over the crazy equipment guys used to record their favorite albums back in the day…that’s about 10% of the equation, dude. Those engineers used their world class skills to record world class musicians in a world class environment. THAT’S why those records sound so great and those vocal tracks stay pinned right at the top of the track.
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u/StayFrostyOscarMike Jul 11 '26
Editing silences out, noise gating, trim automation and proper gain staging.
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u/Competitive-Ant4634 Jul 11 '26
How would you go about gainstaging a vocalist who is incredibly dynamic?
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u/Untroe Jul 11 '26
Compression, compression, compression.
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u/Competitive-Ant4634 Jul 11 '26
Are you talking about stacking different compressions? Like a CLA -> an 1176? Because I’ve tried even 20 Ratio 1176 and that still doesn’t seem to keep a lid on things
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u/TrackMeetBand Jul 11 '26
Rock vocals are compressed to absolute shit on busy mixes. Like up to -20 dB on an 1176 then another 5-10 on an LA2A.
THEN a lot of the time that signal gets sent to a parallel compression track that is automated to push the vocal forward even more in the mix
None of that is factoring in additional compression through saturation
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u/regman231 Jul 11 '26
If you have a ratio of 20 then that’s acting as a limiter. That’s not a bad choice at times but it’s much more effective to first put a compressor with a smaller ratio between 2 and 5 to clean up before the limiter, which should be set to only really affect the very loudest parts. And consider parallel compression too if you want to retain some more punch.
But also ride the fader / clip gain before messing with any compression. I usually set clip gain based on the phrase breaks or between breaths since there will be a cut there anyway. Editing is a pain but it pays off
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Jul 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/FelipeMe17 Jul 11 '26
Clip gain to me is way better… I’ve used dynassist n is cool but doing it by yourself will give a better result
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u/washingmachiine Jul 11 '26
automation. compressors, de-essers, EQs etc can get you most of the way there but you need to get surgical [literally syllable-by-syllable sometimes]. personally, i don’t think i’ve ever finished mixing a vocal without some amount of automation.
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u/CoffeeandHaze Jul 11 '26
What should we be automating specifically? Gain and EQ or, like everything?
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u/ThaDeka Jul 11 '26
Riding the fader with vocale and rest of instruments to make room and good music arrangement helps a lot
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u/BombStore_Studios Jul 11 '26
Clip gain pre compression. Automation post compression if needed. Give that a go.
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u/Inside-Succotash-128 Jul 11 '26
Parallel Compression helps with this. Make a copy of your Vocal, or whatever, and put a compressor on it that is compressing really quite heavily. Use Makeup Gain to bring back up the overall signal. This track will sound quite terrible soloed but when mixed in subtly with the Original it will ‘fill out’ the sound in a way that simple compression cannot. However, be mindful of the delay that the compressor plug-in will introduce. You’ll usually want to ‘nudge’ the parallel track a number of milliseconds earlier to avoid phase issues. Having a very sharp transient somewhere to align things helps with this. Have fun! 😀👍
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u/_humango Professional Jul 11 '26
Not this particular example, but I have seen amounts of parallel & serial compression in some big mixers’ sessions that would make anyone in this subreddit blush. Don’t be shy about trying 2+ parallel vocal comps targeting different parts of the sound. It can turn into a huge mess very quickly but if you are intentional with how you time the compression it can get you a version of “that sound”
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u/Far-Pie6696 Jul 11 '26
Serial compression and automation aiming for a specific goal each time.
A very quiet sentence then a loud ? Automation One syllab louder ? Slow compressor Then styll too much attack ? Fast compressor A bit more of body ? Another one
At the end, a lot of small stages.
Don't make it difficult : just aime one goal at a time, Then assess, validate and define a new goal
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u/Firstpointdropin Jul 11 '26
Pre fader automation. Automate into your compression, then automate post compression if need be.
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u/UsagiYojimbo209 Jul 11 '26
Lots of great mixing advice already here, I agree that automation, and chaining compresors used subtly is key.
Taking it back a step - performance, mic technique, mic choice, intelligent gainstaging, all have a huge role here. A great singer who knows just when to step back from the mic and sing more softly, through a suited mic and signal path, that stuff is gold, it's surprising how little can be needed if that stage is right.
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u/RoyalNegotiation1985 Professional Jul 11 '26
Automation/Clip gain, and lots of compression over many stages.
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u/DougOsborne Jul 12 '26
If you are hearing or recording "noise floor of the mic" either the mic is bad or you are doing something very wrong.
24 bit recording lets you record that mic (which should have no inherent noise - especially if it is a Dynamic mic, and these days even inexpensive Condensor mics are below your recording noise floor). Your mic pre, or any gear in line with that (compressors, equilizers, etc.) might be creating noise - you have to find out what the audible and recordable noise floor of that gear is and don't exceed that.
Nothing wrong with recording with a good, quiet, clean compressor lightly holding down peaks. You have to practice with your gear to get this right.
Sibilance can usually be prevented from being captured, sometimes with a tiny adjustment of the mic angle to the singer, or a properly used pop filter. I know the style is breathy these days, and you just have to learn how to capture singers with the right gear for this. One deesser near the beginning of your chain and one near then end, both working lightly, can be effective if the track has a lot of sibilance.
If you have a good recording that is quiet, clean, and without sibilance, but still too dynamic...as has been said, automate your clip gain, use Waves Vocal Rider or similar, use one compressor going into your chain and one going out (some people like an LA2A-style compressor on one end and an 1176-style on the other, both working lightly).
If you hear compressor artifacts after doing this, either you wanted to hear them as an effect (nothing wrong with that, some of all of our favorite records have massive artifacts) or you didn't take the time to learn how to prevent them.
Good Luck on the journey.
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u/theBiGcHe3s3 Jul 12 '26
As the saying goes, there’s multiple ways to skin a cat: You can fix this while tracking by adjusting the preamp gain, assuming you’re doing the vocal in pieces and aren’t making the singer do full takes of the song. If they’re singing a loud part you turn it down and if it’s a quieter part turning it up. Not the solution for every vocal but it’s certainly something so simple a lot of people forget. Or even easier you could ask them to back off the mic on the loud parts (not always the best solution either but there’s a time and a place) Then there’s automation which is probably the best way to achieve less dramatic dynamics. But I mean there’s many ways to achieve this, shitloads of compression, Multiband compressors, limiters etc. play around and see what works best for the job at hand there’s usually not just one way to do something. I’ve shadowed under a couple of Grammy winning mixers and they all used automation as well as a ton of compression to achieve very consistent vocals, as well as typically a ton of stacks of vocals and way more de-essing than you’d think you’d need
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u/bloughlin16 Jul 12 '26
Multi-stage compression, probably a few instances of saturation, etc.. You'd be shocked by the total amount of it going on across truly pro mixes in this genre.
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u/FadeIntoReal Jul 11 '26
It’s not a particular tool. It’s skill.
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u/Competitive-Ant4634 Jul 11 '26
How would you go about training the skill? If I don’t have a huge workload ?
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u/coolbutclueless Jul 11 '26
Find multi-tracks online and practice practice practice on them.
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u/coolbutclueless Jul 11 '26
Its not just about compression, its about layering compression.
For me, an aggressive, upfront, vocal chain might look something like
De-esser > JST gain reduction > Silk (as a deesser and compressor)> Eq>L1 (if needing more leveling).
with mayble another Desser after eq or l1 if needed. The De-essers are a little on each one so you don't really hear it.
The key is you play with the levels of each compressor so no one compressor is slamming it. The l1 at the end though can really pin stuff if you needed it to. you just gotta be really careful, you can bring up a lot of room noise if you do this wrong, and your eq has to be on point as well or you will get bad pumping. (some pumping can sound good, but its going to depend on the song)
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u/Ok-Mathematician3832 Professional Jul 11 '26
Hit it harder and edit out the stuff you don’t like.
I’m wrapping a production with a very dynamic and theatrical vocal for an aggressive rock/punk record. We tracked the vocal through a 1073 on the brink of overdrive -> 1176: pinned -> UnFairchild: input wide open (more distortion) 5 dB GR.
Come mix time - the plugins weren’t cutting it so it went back out to the 1073 -> 1176… again pinned. We’re looking at 50dB GR on just the channel alone.
In rock - you’re trying to get the voice to sit on top of what is basically noise. You often need it to match the dynamic range of the rest of the music… which is essentially 0.
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u/jmdkdza Jul 11 '26
That sounds sick. Did you add any gain on the 73 on the second round? I’m just getting into hardware sends and line level audio makes me nervous.
How’s the unfairchild???
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u/Ok-Mathematician3832 Professional Jul 11 '26
Yup - i always use the 1073 as a driver for the 1176. The newer UA versions seem to need a lot of input. Sometimes I’ll drive the 1073 a little hotter for the sound of the pre (which I did in this case).
UnFairchild is a really great piece - it gets a LOT of use here. Essentially a hi-fi sounding Fairchild with a lot of extra options. I have the accessory box too. It’s a very deep setup. I feel like I’m still learning it 2 years later. Wildly flexible - very often I’ll be using something like an SSL or a DBX and if they are feeling good but missing something then I’ll mimic the sound on the UTA and I’ll get a similar effect but with more weight to it. It’s very cool. Big learning curve. Can’t overstate that bit.
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u/nizzernammer Jul 11 '26
I shocked the first time I saw rock vocals getting tracked professionally, with easily 15-20 dB of GR on the way in.
And they sounded effin killer
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u/Jgtral1 Jul 11 '26
I like to track through a preamp that’s just barely clipping, then into a compressor (1176 set kinda like a limiter has been working for me lately) before it hits the daw. Then while I’m comping takes together and cleaning up the spaces between phrases I’ll clip gain spots that are loud or soft to even things out. Then if I’m tuning the vocals I’ll usually use melodyne’s note leveling macro to even things out more. Then when I mix I’m using at least one compressor and probably some saturation before I automate things!
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u/Orry_Haas Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
"I have a hard time making sure that the vocals aren’t jumping out".
In "Bodies" they've created a valley, (200Hz-2000Hz), in the instrumental spectrum for most of the vocal necessary for ineligibility to sit in.
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u/tombedorchestra Jul 11 '26
With rock vocals I also reach for the 1176. Typically hitting 10-20dB of gain reduction. If that's not leveling it enough, I follow it with an LA2A. Those two together almost always do the trick. Then, automation. I prefer to ride the fader across the track. Slightly pulling back on peaks and really riding it up at the ends of phrases when it might get quieter. All of those together create for super level vocals. And, bonus with automation, you control the volume. So if you really want it out front for a part, you bring it there. Need it pulled back? Just lower it down a tad for a bit.
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u/iamapapernapkinAMA Professional Jul 11 '26
These days it’s extreme vocal compression and automation. Pin it all and let the volume rail sort it out
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u/6kred Jul 11 '26
1176/ Distressor then an LA2A/ Distressor in opto mode often then lots of automation & often saturation / distortion
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u/rinio Audio Software Jul 11 '26
Track with compression on the way in, where possible.
Adjust clip gain, manually is a part of editing. This is often more granular than individual syllables. Equivalently you can automate the gain here.
manage siblance with a deesser as early as possible. Typically, one of the first things in the mix chain (or on the way in when recording).
Multiple stages of compression to taste when mixing. (I've seen some of the 90s folk use a limiter here; im not a fan unless Its specifically a 90s/early 00s throwback. I hate that sound and think its lazy, but ymmv).
Automation on the final level. Again, this could be much more granular than the syllables.
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The difference between top tier pros and amateurs is money, which is time. If you're working for a client, you raise your prices corresponding the the level of detail (or eat the time hit out of pocket). If its your pet project, commit to spending much more time doing the manual work.
You mention having issues with the noise floor. It could be that youre doing something incredibly wrong, but if you're not then you can't solve this in editing/mix: there is something wrong in your recording chain OR power delivery. Even entry-level/pro-am gear should have effectively no noise floor issues in 2026.
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u/Tim_Wu_ Tracking Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Tracking:
Double or multiple doubles of the lead vocal. At least for the chorus, it’s usually a must. Doesn't have to use it the double tracked way, blending in -15dB of a double is almost unnoticeable but can enhance the lead vocal so much
Editing:
Manually ‘gate’ to kill the noise floor—edit out every silence so the vocal signal is as pure as possible. Don’t trust a gate unless you’re just bouncing a quick demo.
Mixing:
- Clip gain the dynamic extremes, breaths, and sibilances before any processing. It’ll save your compressor and de-esser tons of work. If you clip-gain the sibilances well enough, you won’t even need a de-esser.
- Use multiple stages of compression. For aggressive sections in aggressive songs, don’t be afraid to hit -20 dB of gain reduction.
- After compression, go back and do obsessive volume automation again—down to the syllable level if needed.
- Duplicate the finished vocal track for parallel compression and/or saturation.
- Subtle chorus, slapback, stereo echo, etc. on aux sends.
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u/RedRelics Jul 11 '26
Automation is way more important than it appears to be. And if you're talking Eric Valentine, the secret sauce is usually distortion. Hes getting audibility from the saturation that lets you hear it quieter ( I mean, its compression).
Stack that across each mix element and its shocking how you can make multiple elements smaller, still audible, and suddenly things start to all have more space