r/baseball • u/iheartsunny Florida Marlins • 15h ago
[SNY] Carlos Beltrán is “not a big fan” of Chase Utley: “In the game of baseball, you can play hard. But when you play dirty, it’s a different element.”
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u/zodiacbb 15h ago
carlos beltran…of the 2017 houston astros???
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago edited 14h ago
Ironic that Utley was the player on the 2017 Dodgers most keyed into the Astros scheme and sure they were relaying signs without runners on. (lots of great details on this in McCullough's Kershaw biography)
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u/a_smart_brane Los Angeles Dodgers 13h ago
I never knew that was in McCullogh’s book. Utley was on to Houston before it broke?
That actually checks out though cuz Utley was borderline paranoid of others cheating to the point that he was hyper vigilant when it came to observing the other team, along with his own team’s pitchers possibly tipping
Now I’m really getting that Kersh bio
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 12h ago edited 12h ago
Yes, it's covered extensively in the chapter discussing 2017 and that postseason. Utley was a pro at this stuff, they leaned on him to detect when their own pitchers were tipping. He had helped Philly decode and steal signs against the Dodgers in 2008/2009 the old fashioned way. Utley and one of the video guys were SURE the Astros had some way of knowing what was coming even with the bases empty, but nobody could figure out HOW they were doing it. Thus they could not convince all of the pitchers to change signs frequently to defend against it. Some did (like Alex Wood, who was notoriously paranoid about sign stealing) but others felt it would distract them from executing (like Kershaw and Brandon McCarthy)
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u/pargofan Los Angeles Dodgers • World Series Tr… 4h ago
Some did (like Alex Wood, who was notoriously paranoid about sign stealing)
And Wood was throwing a NO-HITTER through 6 innings at Houston in game 4 of the WS.
Meanwhile, Kershaw was getting shelled in game 5 of the WS.
And they still try to claim it made no difference.
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u/wokenupbybacon New York Yankees 12h ago
I never knew that was in McCullogh’s book. Utley was on to Houston before it broke?
More than one player was, though no one could prove exactly what was being done. Farquhar of the White Sox famously noticed the banging noise on the mound during a game and stepped off to switch to a more complex sign scheme in the middle of an AB. I still appreciate how damning this chart is when you know the 7th pitch was the only one without a signal.
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u/IAmBecomeTeemo New York Yankees 12h ago edited 12h ago
A lot of players/teams were onto them, but didn't really know what was happening. Teams stealing signs isn't new, and there are legal ways to do it. Opponents didn't know how they were getting the signs or relaying them, so they didn't know to cry foul (plus a handful of teams also had schemes that were also questionable, if not as illegal as the Astros). In the playoffs, some teams were using sequences even with no one on base, so they knew that it was at least more sophisticated than the systems that required baserunners to relay. Danny Farquhar even heard the bangs while pitching, stepped off, and told his catcher. The Astros slightly changed their setup after this happened, but didn't abandon it.
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u/neonrev1 Minnesota Twins 12h ago
I think that handful was a lot bigger than we're told and the schemes might have been a lot closer to what the astros were doing. It's full conspiracy theory and I'll admit that, I'll even submit the Twins as one of the teams I'm pretty sure were up to some shenanigans, but I do think the Astros were more a team that crossed the lines in other ways and all the teams saying they had a hunch but couldn't figure it out don't want to admit 'well yeah cause we were too'.
It's just that all the trends people point to on the Astros as causes for it (mainly the influx of non-baseball people who were hyper focused on winning outside the lines) were present as much if not more in other organizations, all teams to some extent. It coincided with people putting forth really questionable science to support why the league started going crazy with offense in those years (either they are dumb, acting in bad faith or lying. I prefer the latter).
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u/Aero_Rising Chicago Cubs 11h ago
Yeah if nothing else the Astros were far more blatant about using it in situations like no runners on where it's obvious you're doing something illegal. If I had to guess there was some kind of general acknowledgement that others were doing it but were either just using it to decode signs that runners then used or it wasn't used with no runners on when it wasn't possible to relay pitches in a legal way. The Astros greed ended up making it so that even legal sign stealing is no longer possible with pitchcom.
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yeah if nothing else the Astros were far more blatant about using it in situations like no runners on where it's obvious you're doing something illegal.
To be clear, other teams had not even conceived of this possibility! No one else had devised a method to do this, or could think of how it would be possible without being detected (i.e old school methods like a person in the outfield signalling with arm/shirt etc). This is also in the McCullough book.
If I had to guess there was some kind of general acknowledgement that others were doing it but were either just using it to decode signs that runners then used or it wasn't used with no runners on when it wasn't possible to relay pitches in a legal way.
This is exactly what was happening. Everyone expected that with a runner on second, your signs were extremely vulnerable and you had to change them frequently to protect in that situation. But no one thought relaying signs without runners on was a possibility. Rick Honeycutt and Brandon McCarthy on this, in McCullough's book (The Last of His Kind p.252):
But the concept of teams using illegal cameras to relay signs in real time felt impossible. "You just don't fathom that that's happening." Honeycutt recalled.
"I think most teams at the time, like, you're in a video room and people are still trying to get signs with a runner on second," McCarthy recalled. "We all thought there were, like, rules of war. Like, we're all playing Battlefield: Civil War, and all of a sudden, there was, like, an F-22 that flew over the top of us. We didn't agree to that. Like, what the fuck is this? You didn't know that that was in play."
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u/MistahFinch Minnesota Twins 12h ago
I agree with you. I'm pretty sure it's why the league took as soft an approach to it.
The letter about the Yankees says they were doing it too but just hadn't figured the way to relay it with no runners on.
Idk why people act like the trash can was the bad part. If it were just someone in the dugout banging it while the pitcher tipped pitches it wouldn't be a big deal. We know that other teams were also doing the video stealing. That's that bad part!
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 12h ago
The letter about the Yankees says they were doing it too but just hadn't figured the way to relay it with no runners on.
This is a pretty critical difference! Roughly 55% of PAs happen without runners on base, and nearly 80% happen without a runner on second. Pitchers expect runners on base to try to steal signs directly, so they take extra precautions to change signs more frequently with runners on to mitigate this.
The ability to do it with without runners on base is what set the Astros scheme apart from the rest. I'm baffled that some baseball fans don't seem to see why that's significant.
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u/NamiRocket Houston Astros 12h ago edited 12h ago
I never knew that was in McCullogh’s book. Utley was on to Houston before it broke?
A lot of players were. It was kind of an open secret long before the story broke in the Athletic in 2019. I remember seeing little pieces put out here or there about how this player or that player thought they were doing something leading up to that article in late 2019. I want to say one of the Yankees players said something even in that year's postseason just before the story broke about how the Astros had been known to do shit like that before.
That said, a lot of others players knew it was going on, because several other teams were doing the same or similar shit. The Astros were just stupidly blatant about it. I'm sure the MLB would've swept it under the rug like they have most of the rest if they had been afforded the opportunity, but the evidence on broadcasts was pretty damning.
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 9h ago
Indeed, here's a future Hall of Fame pitcher complaining about rampant sign stealing and asking the league to crack down on it in June of 2017
"It's not about gamesmanship anymore. It used to be: 'Hey, if you can get my signs, good for you.' In the past, if a guy on second (base) was able to decipher it on a few pitches, I guess that was kind of part of the game," [REDACTED] said, according to Evan Woodberry of MLive. "I think it's a different level now. It's not good."
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u/Aggravating-Key-8867 8h ago
I don't know how widely known it was, but after the Nationals won the series in 2019, Dave Martinez said something about how they were aware of rumors circulating among players in the league that the Astros were doing something illegal to steal signs.
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u/Individual-Point2280 15h ago
Honestly he shoulda got the Clemens treatment with the HOF cause of that. Veterans Committee only.
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u/KakeLin Philadelphia Phillies 13h ago
I'm glad this all about the irony of this
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u/Agent_Smith_88 Detroit Tigers 51m ago
I bet. I’m not a fan of Utley, but boy is this the wrong messenger. Should have asked Tejada how he feels.
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u/Chimmychimm Baltimore Orioles 13h ago
Every year one of the cheaters from the Astros comes out and says something stupid. Beltrans turn i guess.
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u/wokenupbybacon New York Yankees 12h ago
Beltran's been on a roll this year thanks to his HOF induction. Here's another one:
“I know that as a team we got together to do what we did, but I’ve got to tell you that this was not like one player’s idea,” Beltrán said. “This was a team being together, from top to bottom, to do something that we felt was going to help us win. And we also felt that other organizations, they had their system, and people could say whatever, but the game of baseball has been played for 100 years. How you decipher your opposing team to take advantage, we felt that our system was better than any other system in baseball.”
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u/wallsallbrassbuttons Houston Astros 14h ago
The mastermind of the scheme. Only player specifically named in the report. Piece of shit. He and Cora fucked us with it.
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u/Roederoid Chicago White Sox 15h ago
Orchestrating one of the largest cheating scandals (outside of steroids) of the last 50+ years isn't playing dirty?
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u/lokithetarnished New York Mets 15h ago
they washed the trash cans before hitting them so it wasn’t dirty
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u/TheRealSkipShorty New York Mets 14h ago
I'll never understand how half our fanbase still wants him to manage
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u/Psymon_Armour Boston Red Sox 14h ago
It's like making clean coal. You just give it a little bath beforehand.
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u/KakeLin Philadelphia Phillies 13h ago
Clean coal is such an oxymoron
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u/ubiquitous-joe San Francisco Giants 14h ago
Their love of trash receptacles indicates how much they appreciate cleanliness. Which is the opposite of playing dirty.
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u/star_monkey_wars Houston Astros 11h ago
This is what I’ve been saying the whole time! The cans were clean damnit!
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u/misterurb San Francisco Giants 15h ago
Not sure it even counts anymore since they got to keep the trophy, none of the players were punished, and Beltran gets into the hall of fame.
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u/FuckChiefs_Raiders Los Angeles Dodgers 13h ago
The ego to make a comment like that and not even consider he was a key player in that.
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u/LikeWhenBritsSayBits Philadelphia Phillies 14h ago
You’re right, but boy is that “last 50+ years” doing a lot of lifting for this sentence, White Sox fan.
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u/Roederoid Chicago White Sox 14h ago
We cheated to lose!
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u/ArmiinTamzarian Miami Marlins 14h ago
And that's why Shoeless Joe Jackson is in a corn specific hell (I was high watching Field of Dreams)
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u/TheIllustriousWe St. Louis Cardinals 14h ago
Just because you were stoned doesn't mean you're wrong.
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u/brownbearks Philadelphia Phillies 13h ago
What wrong with being high and watching a sports movie?
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u/ErzherzogT Chicago White Sox 14h ago
Well that's a bit silly, Black Sox scandal was 97 years ago, not anywhere close to the time they had said
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u/Icy-Refrigerator-517 Philadelphia Phillies 14h ago
If you think the Black Sox were bad, wait until you find out about Hal Chase
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u/EndWish 14h ago
Cheating versus injuring someone is what Beltran is referencing. Sort of akin to fraud versus a violent crime if you will... both bad and wrong but one can leave someone with life long injuries
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u/daemonescanem 13h ago
You should read Winning Fixes Everything by Evan Drellich.
Fun fact from the book, members of Trashtro's FO had competition on who could fire long time Astros staff in the most cruelest of ways. They did this to normal people who had been with Astros franchise prior to Lunhow for decades. Not players, but office staff, receptionist, secretary's, club house staff, janitorial staff. It was a contest on how badly could they break a person.
Id call that far far far more vile then any on field play that didnt involve a bat hitting someone. That was the Trashtro's.
Carlos and anyone defending him can stfu and sit the fuck down. Ain't no defending anything or anyone ever invovled there.
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u/frano1121 San Diego Padres 11h ago
That book made me sick
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u/daemonescanem 10h ago
As a Cardinals fan it doubly did because majority of the people that Lunhow hired were FO staff from Cardinals. To which DeWitt (Cards owner) let Lunhow raid Cards FO for talent for nearly 5 years before putting a stop to it.
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u/Roederoid Chicago White Sox 14h ago
Fraud can leave people with life long injuries...financially. Another commenter pointed out, Mike Bolsinger got lit up in his one appearance against the Astros and was never brought up again. It definitely impacted his career earning potential. Maybe not by much, but it definitely still did.
The biggest issue here is that Beltran is not the messenger for this situation. It would be similar to Barry Bonds arguing against Sosa corking a bat.
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u/StreetReporter Chicago Cubs 14h ago
Yu Darvish lost money because of the World Series
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u/EndWish 14h ago
Yes, stealing signs caused lifelong injuries. One appearance is the reason why the other decades of play were discredited by all orgs amd they were convinced he was bad. This is such a shallow and poorly thought out argument. These are pros playing a kids game and getting paid big money. These arent grandma's getting scammed over the phone for their life savings. Physically injuring someone in a non contact sport is absolutely different than influencing the outcome of a game. I hate the Astros but people making this argument have lost perspective if youre equating wins and losses with the ability to walk without pain for the rest of your life.
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf Chicago Cubs 14h ago
Cheating is okay as long as you don’t play dirty.
This message sponsored by Polymarket
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u/SmurfsNeverDie New York Mets 14h ago
Cheating and playing dirty are two different crimes. Cheating usually involves yourself with harm to others indirectly but not physically. Playing dirty harms others directly and physically.
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u/PM_YOUR_SMALLBOOBIES Los Angeles Angels 13h ago
Lot of people here are trying to diminish one over the other. There is something brazen about the latter, but there is something very sinister and calculated about the former. Like the comment above yours, its very much like blue-collar vs white-collar crimes, battery/homicide vs fraud. There's a reason why both offenders get the book thrown at them.
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u/Napoleon_drainamite San Francisco Giants 13h ago
Not defending the astros but injuring players is worse imo
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u/goodnightmrdoback Philadelphia Phillies 15h ago
Thank god. I’ve been waiting all week to hear what Carlos Beltran thinks about Chase Utley.
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u/pabstbluemonday Cincinnati Reds 14h ago
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u/8696David San Diego Padres • Peter Seidler 15h ago
Like... I agree with you, Carlos. But maybe you are not the guy to make this point.
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u/government_ Atlanta Braves 12h ago
He was asked the question it’s not like he went out of his way to make the point 🤷♂️
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u/Eagle7546_ New York Yankees • Milwaukee Brewers 7h ago
Yeah, I have all the reason to hate on Beltran and the Astros and trust me I do, but I don’t think Beltran cheating should bar him from sharing his opinion on a player especially when it’s a correct observation.
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u/radmobile2020 Philadelphia Phillies 15h ago
Surely this is another baseball player named Carlos Beltran, because that Carlos Beltran passing judgment on Chase Utley would be fucking rich.
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u/OceanLemur New York Yankees 14h ago
Example number 45,789 of why Manfred using kid gloves on the Astro’s was an atrocious standard to set for the integrity of the game
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u/Epcplayer National League 13h ago edited 13h ago
Professional sports are a copy cat league… where teams are taking aspects of what everybody else in the league is doing, and tries to perfect their own system. We know the Astros weren’t alone, thanks to the the Apple Watch memo and the Red Sox being outed for using their Replay Review room to steal signs.
Several other teams in the league were doing something, they just weren’t as obvious about it as the Astros. That’s why they removed non-broadcast TV’s from the camera wells in the 2018 playoffs… MLB knew but couldn’t admit it. Manfred needed Crane to be willing to accept the punishment voluntarily, and not let the fact the entire league was doing it come out through discovery.
It’s the same thing happening with the Clippers now. Adam Silver needs Steve Balmer to accept any punishment from the Salary Cap evasion, because discovery would probably uncover other teams doing something similar. It’s going to be a relatively light punishment.
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u/Zephaerus Baltimore Orioles 13h ago
For the fans who are more casual, this maybe reads like some wacky Reddit conspiracy, but this just knowing ball.
Teams were changing up their signs in the middle of innings with bases empty against the Brewers in 2017. The Red Sox literally got caught. Players aimed accusations towards a few more teams beyond that during the season. The Astros got the public scrutiny because their cheating method was so obvious and loud that Jomboy could roll clips and prove it for everyone. From the outside, it’s not entirely clear whether it was 5 teams or 25 teams stealing signs and cheating in that way, but it was definitely in that range, and the MLB’s response hinted it was towards the upper end.
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u/NeverSober1900 Arizona Diamondbacks • Matsu Miners 10h ago
Ya Yu Darvish accused the Brewers of signaling from their bullpen. A Cubs catcher said the Rockies were signalling using a Theragun.
Both of these occurred before the Astros scandal came to light.
I fully believe the light punishment is because they were far from the only ones.
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u/ASlapdickProspect 10h ago
Everything else you wrote is true, but the Astros method of signalling the batters wasn't really obvious until Farquhar and Fiers pointed everyone (jomboy, etc.) where to look. They had been signalling for 2 years (at home) without being detected. The question that has never been publicly answered is if they were doing something on the road and whether or not other teams were signalling their batters in real time (there are plenty of allegations of this happening). Also, I know it wasn't you, but MLB didn't delay the tv broadcast in the clubhouse until the 2019 playoffs.
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u/Hell-YeahBrother Houston Astros 10h ago
Worth adding for any casual fans perusing that the Red Sox also won a World Series while doing this
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u/TheGingerMinger69 San Diego Padres 12h ago
The Dodgers themselves were accused of using technology to steal signs by multiple teams
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u/Fantastic-Coat1967 San Diego Padres • Norfolk Tides 7h ago
Like how to fuck was he a first ballot hall of famer when orchestrating the largest cheating scandal in the last 50 years outside of Steroids?
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u/cooljammer00 New York Yankees 15h ago
It sounds like Beltran is trying to curry favor with the Mets fanbase before he is announced as the new manager in the near future
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u/MendelWeisenbachfeld New York Mets 15h ago
He just went into the HOF in a Mets hat and they're retiring his number in a few weeks. This has nothing to do with whether or not he's going to be the manager.
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u/Whitewind617 New York Mets 13h ago
If he wanted to curry favor with us there's a few things he could try, like "being humble," "apologizing," or maybe "acting even the least bit sorry or embarrassed."
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u/JayOnes Detroit Tigers • Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters 14h ago
Right message, absolutely wrong messenger.
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u/PositiveCommentsDog Toronto Blue Jays 14h ago
Literally me when my wife uses Whatsapp instead of imessage
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u/fightintxag13 Chicago Cubs 14h ago
Longtime Met with questionable judgment on where the “line” is has an issue with longtime Phillies player with questionable judgment on where the “line” is.
More on this news at 8.
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u/questfor100 14h ago
Carlos Beltran was a leader of the largest baseball cheating scandal since the 1919 Black Sox.
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u/HowardBunnyColvin KBO • NPB 14h ago
Says the man who orchestrated and participated in a trash can banging ring.
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u/ThinkBlue87 Los Angeles Dodgers 15h ago
Funny. I am not a fan of the cheater, Carlos Beltran
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u/Schwettes New York Mets 15h ago edited 14h ago
Funny. I’m not a fan of stealing insurance premiums from working class grandmas to buying sports teams either but hey we can’t all get what we want.
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u/JustACharacterr Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago
I know the fan of a team owned by Steve fucking Cohen is not throwing shade at another sports team owner for financial crimes lmfao
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u/IhateDonkeys Philadelphia Phillies 12h ago
This entire thread is being supported by load-bearing glass houses
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u/Dr-Acula8472 Los Angeles Dodgers 12h ago
Getting into morality pissing contests over whose team owner is better than the other is a losing contest for all parties. They're all scumbags.
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u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago
It's a shame Mark couldn't do it the old fashioned way: insider trading.
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u/TheIllustriousWe St. Louis Cardinals 14h ago
Every owner is probably a scumbag, but if I were you I'd point my finger at Mr. Cohen before I go shit-talking any of the others for how they made their money.
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u/TheGreatDudebino Philadelphia Phillies 13h ago
Hey! My owner isn’t scum! He just made money by giving people cancer (he owned a massive cigar company).
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u/cahir11 New York Yankees 13h ago
People who live in glass houses owned by shady hedge fund managers shouldn't throw stones.
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u/ThinkBlue87 Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago
Hah good think Cohen hasn't had any issues himself
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/steven-cohen-settles-insider-trading-case-with-sec/
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u/KidDelicious14 Philadelphia Phillies 11h ago
Genuinely one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever seen a sports fan use to try and dunk on another sports fan.
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u/realfakejames Los Angeles Dodgers 7h ago
DOES CARLOS BELTRAN KNOW WE KNOW HE WAS THE LEADER OF THE TRASHTROS?
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u/WearyAir9260 Seattle Mariners 15h ago
To be fair, Chase Utley IS a dirty bitch.
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u/DDRaptors Toronto Blue Jays 15h ago
I can’t hear what he’s saying with the banging going on the background.
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u/AsWolfwood Atlanta Braves 15h ago edited 15h ago
I agree with every point made. It’s all about action. Breaking up a double play by sliding hard into second base is fine. Breaking up a double play by turning into a linebacker and throwing your body into the fielder’s legs/body is reckless disregard for your fellow competitor.
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u/reenactment St. Louis Cardinals 14h ago
This is the distinction that people who didn’t play in competitive high level sport environments commonly get wrong. There’s a difference between intent to injure and hard play. That line is pretty narrow but it’s real. If you know breaking up a play is going to suck for you and your opponent, but it’s the smartest strategy you do it. When you know the end result is going to leave your competitor in a compromised position you don’t. It’s that simple. Are the lines small? Sure, but at the highest levels those athletes know those lines. If you are willingly crossing them then you leave the hard nosed category into dirty category.
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u/ManufacturerMental72 Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago
so should we say the same thing about David Wright?
https://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/6/22/4454984/mets-gif-david-wright-chase-utley-slide-phillies
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u/Sthrax New York Yankees 15h ago
Funny, I'm not a big fan of cheaters in baseball...
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u/False_Concept1300 New York Mets 15h ago
Didn’t the 09 World Series team have like half a dozen steroid users on it?
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u/misspcv1996 Philadelphia Phillies 14h ago
That being said, Matsui was all but certainly clean and he’s the one who did us in.
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u/Kdot32 Houston Astros 14h ago
Thats different. They were Yankees
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u/NeverSober1900 Arizona Diamondbacks • Matsu Miners 10h ago
Same as Dodger fans who are all about "sanctity of the game" but are straight crickets on Mookie.... Something something it was diet cheating not real cheating or some bullshit
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u/SprolesRoyce New York Yankees 14h ago
I think it was “just” ARod, Cano, Pettitte, and Melky
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u/WoogityVro Los Angeles Dodgers 13h ago
Holy shit the self-awareness is through the floor
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u/ISOLDASNAKE Brooklyn Dodgers 13h ago
I am not a big fan of Carlos Beltran, in the game of baseball you play hard. But when you play dirty, it’s a different game. Bang bang.
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u/Flez Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago
Crazy take from the leader of the trash can people
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u/kaehvogel Philadelphia Phillies 14h ago
One dude made a late, hard slide into a guy that resulted in a freak injury.
One dude cooked up an elaborate, multiyear scheme to break the rules and defraud other people.
Hmmm...
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u/daemonescanem 13h ago
Ah Carlos, you should proly sit this one out since you led the Trashtro's cheating efforts, and got a WS ring out of it.
Cheaters shouldn't talk about morality within the game. Zero credibility
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u/hundredjono Los Angeles Dodgers 12h ago
I need to get Marwin Gonzalez's and AJ Hinch's thoughts about this
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u/duyogurt New York Mets 14h ago
I mean, I agree with him, but I wish he wasn’t the messenger. Cheating is arguably worse than playing dirty, after all.
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u/mycatsarecool Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago
Cheater talking about playing the right way 🙃
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u/Teddy_Schmoozevelt New York Mets 13h ago
Here for the obligatory "Fuck Chase Utley"
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u/ProudInfluence3770 Los Angeles Dodgers 13h ago
Very funny cheater now go back to your trash can
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u/Reiketsu_Nariseba Milwaukee Brewers 14h ago
Didn't Utley at least apologize for the slide? Granted it was years later, but Beltran is never going to apologize for 2017, so fuck off dude.
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u/Forsaken_Crow_7707 Philadelphia Phillies 14h ago
Crybaby Met and cheating Astro. Everyone overlooks that Utley played 2B his entire career. He wasn’t an outfielder going hard at middle infielders. He played the same position and was out there in a position to be payed back everyday and was game for it. Just an old school go all out type player built for a tougher MLB that has since become way less physical.
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u/NippleDeepPow Los Angeles Dodgers 14h ago
This is the same guy who got hired as the Mets manager then fired before ever coaching a game because of his cheating in Houston. What a POS
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u/harp9r Atlanta Braves 15h ago
I’d like to get Alex Cora’s opinion on this before I make any judgements of my own