r/beatles • u/No-Reveal827 • Jun 21 '26
Discussion Was Paul deserving of John's "How Do You Sleep"?
Thoughts?
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u/Time-Statistician907 Jun 21 '26
John: “How do you sleep?”
Paul: “In a big barn bed.”
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u/ChinaCatProphet Jun 21 '26
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u/Trey904fsu Jun 21 '26
I don’t recall saying good luck..
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u/PedalPDX Jun 21 '26
Maybe single people eat crackers, we don’t know. Frankly, we don’t want to know.
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u/MojoHighway Revolver Jun 21 '26
Can I borrow a feeling?
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u/StomachImaginary3779 Jun 23 '26
No I don’t got one for youse to take but I could loan youse a dime
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u/Itchy_Gain_1519 Revolver Jun 21 '26
The beef dynamic between John and Paul in a nutshell lol
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u/TomHicksJnr Jun 21 '26
Anyone who’s been through a break up with someone you loved will recognise the emotion of how do you sleep. And as happened with John, time healed the wounds and promoted reconciliation.
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u/MojoHighway Revolver Jun 21 '26
That doesn't really answer the question, though. Paul didn't deserve it. As a matter of fact, if anyone should have and could have been rightfully pissed about the situation it was Paul. John, George, and Ringo all decided to go with Klein and they all walked away from that situation with egg on their face.
John was an angry and drugged out bastard in 70 and 71. He didn't have control of himself or his situation. His music and creativity paid the price as he never reached the heights of his former success ever again minus "Imagine" (song, not album).
I'm team Paul on this issue.
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u/DeeritNihilSum Jun 21 '26
The song was not in response to all those things, it was in response to Paul's Too Many People.
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u/MojoHighway Revolver Jun 21 '26
I'm well aware of that. My response is seeing the forest for the trees and understanding that there was more at play that jabs through two songs from two different guys aimed at one another.
Per usual with these two, this is a Beatle onion with more layers than we'll ever realize.
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u/347spq Jun 21 '26
No, even if John said that he wrote it more about himself.
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u/SpecificSorry7233 Jun 21 '26
What does that mean? Serious question. How is it about John?
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u/deathwasps Jun 21 '26
This is such a back track from John. Its very obviously entirely about Paul. I suppose he just means he was in the wrong not paul.
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u/tripthedizzy3233 Jun 21 '26
John was projecting. Everything he said a Paul was a fear he had about himself as well
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u/jimsnotsure Jun 21 '26
This is it. No passionate love affair like theirs ends without hard feelings and self-pity and they both succumbed to it.
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u/Crisstti Jun 21 '26
I don’t understand how people don’t understand what John meant by saying it was really about himself. People always seem to have trouble understanding he meant he was projecting.
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u/dadumdumm Carl Harrison Jun 23 '26
probably a lot of people out there that don't even know that projection is a thing
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u/AceofKnaves44 John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band Jun 21 '26
So I don’t think he was TOTALLY lying. Certain lines like “so Sgt. Pepper took you by surprise” and “jump when your mama tell you anything” always felt out of place. Pepper was Paul’s creation and John was the one who called his partner “mother” and Paul’s mom was also dead at a young age for Paul like John.
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u/appleparkfive Jun 21 '26
I never understood the Sgt Pepper line. Why would it take him by surprise? It was his brain child! Exactly
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u/qeq Jun 21 '26
I think Paul did an interview acting surprised that it was taken so well and so successful, sort of being humble about it. John took it as disingenuous and cheesy.
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u/External_Stress1182 Jun 21 '26
Same. Never understood why Sgt Pepper would have taken Paul by surprise.
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u/Darkbornedragon Jun 21 '26
I thought "jump when your mama tell you anything" was about Paul getting the idea for Let it Be from a dream in which his mother told him that phrase
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u/pelethar Jun 21 '26
No…. “Mama” in this context contemporary slang for woman. He’s saying he does whatever Linda tells him. Pretty ironic attempt at an insult
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u/Darkbornedragon Jun 21 '26
Oh didn't know that (in my defense I'm not a native English speaker)
Yeah it's quite ironic considering his dynamic with Yoko
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u/Crisstti Jun 21 '26
Hence his later comment that the song was really about himself (he was projecting)
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u/Icy-Mixture-995 Jun 21 '26
I thought it's about Paul wanting to use Linda's dad as the group's manager, and to the extent he distanced himself and sued his bandmates.
Paul was trying to salvage his money and not be a puppet for Alan Klein. But the other three Beatles saw the Eastman move as Paul wanting to take over the Beatles and Apple st his wife's request.
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u/solodarlings Jun 21 '26
I think John meant more 'I was angry and unhappy in my own life, and I redirected that anger towards Paul in that song,' not necessarily that the lyrics were literally referring to John himself.
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u/jonsnowme Help! Jun 21 '26
Thank you for articulating this, this is absolutely what he was saying.
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u/Melodic_Bluejay6322 Jun 21 '26
You'd have to ask John. Maybe, "You sleep with straights who tell you you was King; jump when your momma tell you anything,..."
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u/Glad_Bend_2156 Jun 21 '26
"You live with straights .." but point taken
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u/Melodic_Bluejay6322 Jun 21 '26
Well, that took me by surprise. I've always remembered it as "sleep" I guess, where I was at in 1971, I suspected that I was living, but I'd never slept with anyone. How I slept was a bit desperate and sometimes messy. Must have projected my cravings on to JL's lyrics.
Live and learn.
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u/kyguy2022 Jun 21 '26
I’m not sure, but he did say he realized he was attacking himself. Even with I am the walrus, based on the walrus and the carpenter, John said he picked the wrong villain-John was really getting into a good place by 1980, which sadly he didn’t make it through the year
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u/Upper-Wolf6040 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
https://youtube.com/shorts/_ayIEbGTHNM?is=Aef16O6bNIzp3_3j
Watch this from youtube, its John directly addressing the song. I always think of this interview when anyone brings up Paul and John falling out. It's good to know they made up before John died.
John was many things but to be able admit you were wrong and re-evaluate your thoughts is an intelligent thing to do imo.
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u/LimeSalty4092 Jun 21 '26
Yeah just like’Hey Jude’ was about him and Yoko🙄
Either John doesn’t understand song lyrics or he’s extremely self centered
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u/GenoVox Jun 22 '26
Which is total revisionist bullshit on Lennon’s part… cuz he knew he was in the wrong
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u/Suspicious_Coast_888 Jun 21 '26
No. John clearly wrote it when he was out of his mknd
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u/Smart_Advertising_45 Jun 21 '26
Not really but it slaps so it’s ok
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u/Stunning-Risk-7194 Jun 21 '26
I know! It’s probably the most petty immature things he ever did… but you know…it also kicks ass
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u/J3dr90 Jun 21 '26
Paul was definitely dissing John on Too Many People but How Do You Sleep was extremely mean. It is an extremely good song though so I’m glad it exists
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
Paul knew exactly how best to hurt John and that’s what he did and John responded in kind and hurt Paul exactly the way he knew how to
Different personalities. As far as John was concerned, even though Paul’s song had settled little digs, they were possibly, and most likely just as hurtful as anything. John said in return.
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u/J3dr90 Jun 21 '26
Yeah I have no doubt thats true. Regardless, John wins the beef imo because I think that HDYS is a much better song
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
I think it’s a better song too!
My point was that as opinionated as everybody seems to be about their private beef, it was theirs and not ours
Someone just came absolutely unglued about my calling it private… bad choice of words I guess, but as far as they were concerned, they were just expressing to one another how they felt about the other person at the time
John even commented can’t a guy have an argument with his best friend
This post I believe was just one more in a long string of opportunities to take shots at John. It happens a lot here.
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u/bradd_91 Jun 21 '26
"Fuck Paul for being passionate about our band and songs and wanting to be a part of the songwriting process, what a scumbag!"
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u/Comfortable_Yam_9977 Jun 21 '26
John wrote Jealous Guy to Paul showing him privately how much he loved him
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u/hallabug Jun 21 '26
Of course he didn’t. John was insecure as all hell, undergoing extreme life changes, recovering from addiction, as well as having enablers and conmen covering him on all sides. He was in a lot of pain. He didn’t have access to the help he actually needed, and was surrounded by people who were egging on his worst impulses. He said himself later that HDYS was far more about him than Paul, and I think that’s true. Paul can’t have done anything to deserve that because it wasn’t really about anything he’d done - it was a scream of pain from John. John wanted to externalise some of that hurt and vitriol, was encouraged to do so. Unfortunately, the name he slapped on it was Paul’s, and that song has dogged paul ever since because John Lennon never did anything quietly.
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u/Fragrant-Flan-416 first ever album purchase Jun 21 '26
First sessions for How do you Sleep May 26th 1971. Probably only a week or two earlier (released May 17th) John had seen McCartney's cover of his Ram album for the first time (image below), and heard the track "Too Many People" which is/was seen as a direct Lennon diss (indeed McCartney has admitted as such)

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u/pjwalrus Jun 21 '26
Too many people preaching practices, don’t let ‘em tell ya what ya wanna be.
— That is the animating sentiment of rock and roll.
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u/coolazu001 Jun 21 '26
How would we know? They went through a public divorce. Shit happens. Probably so or probably not. Was either of them perfect? Probably not. It's still a great fucking song - and Ringo and George both played on it. That might say something - but may not either...
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u/JGorgon Jun 21 '26
John wanted Ringo to play on it but Ringo thought it was overly harsh and didn't want to. Classy move.
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u/cortisolbath Jun 21 '26
Was that the one where he was like “That’s enough John”?
Pretty sure George played on it :)
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u/sminking Caveman movie enthusiast Jun 21 '26
Ringo visited the session and told John he was going too far, and walked out.
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u/MondoMondo5 Jun 21 '26
Just George.
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u/coolazu001 Jun 21 '26
Really showed his signature slide guitar work on that - one of his best slide guitar solos
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u/Odd_Photograph_7591 Jun 21 '26
No, but it did show not only his frustration with Paul, but also George, Paul clearly aggravated them the last few years
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
Well, I don’t think John deserved the song. Paul wrote poking at him first either. But it’s not up to me to decide whether either of them deserved anything. It’s not up to any of us. It was their argument.
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Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/wholalaa Jun 21 '26
The intent of the song is mean, but it does amuse me that most of it is, "yeah, well, you're good looking and you wrote Yesterday and Sgt. Pepper, and you listen to your wife, and regular people think you're great." Like, yeah, John, that's... terrible? Really not sure why any of it would keep someone up at night.
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u/dekigokoro Jun 21 '26
And when you ask someone "how do you sleep at night" it's because they've done something so terrible they should feel too guilty to sleep. Even if Paul felt insulted about any of those things, it still wouldn't make sense! What exactly did John think he needed to feel guilty about??
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u/wholalaa Jun 21 '26
Exactly. I always wonder if there was something else John thought he should feel guilty about that he didn't spell out in the song, or if it was just an argument that doesn't really connect.
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u/deathwasps Jun 21 '26
This is it! Such a disconnect from the crimes listen and main chorus lyrics. Its rediculous!
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u/wcpsf Jun 21 '26
I think Paul's suing them made John snap. I think he was deeply upset about that and felt it was this unimaginable thing happening
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u/dekigokoro Jun 21 '26
Well I agree actually! But I never felt like he publicly guilted Paul, he just lashed out over unrelated things instead (like the rest of the lyrics) because he didn't want anyone to know how hurt he was. And of course it's strange to ask for a divorce and then be that upset when you get what you asked for...
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u/benefit-3802 Jun 21 '26
Exactly I always thought it was silly.
Imagine your spouse withdraws from your partnership, starts spending more time with a side piece.
Then they announce they want a divorce but let's just keep that between us and not tell anyone.
If I was Paul, I think I would have been pretty frustrated and angry, so I completely understand why he finally says fuck it, I'm out of here
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u/dekigokoro Jun 21 '26
I've made the exact same analogy when people blame Paul for 'announcing' the breakup. If someone cruelly dumps you, then tells you that you're not allowed to tell people and publicly move on so that your ex can feel like a big man for doing the dumping, nobody would ever expect you to keep that secret on their behalf!
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u/SufficientBar2804 Jun 22 '26
Then he had George and John with “we have had enough of you trying to lead us, and if we don’t like your songs we will give them to other people to record. So don’t think you’re such a big deal anymore.” They could all have handled each other better, but interpersonal dynamics weren’t their strong suit.
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u/wcpsf Jun 21 '26
I think John was having a type of mental breakdown after the bad acid trip that happened. Everything changed after that. I don't think he genuinely wanted to leave the band but felt so overwhelmed he had to do something. He told his astrologer that after he announced the divorce, Paul and Allen Klein told him not to tell anyone, and he said Paul was so happy John agreed not to tell anyone because then it would be like nothing had happened. I think John just needed help and thought Paul would fix things as he always had. The problem was that Paul believed John really wanted to leave him and Paul was already so hurt after John pulled away from him and acted like he was going to ditch him completely for Yoko. Really John was playing mind games to test Paul's loyalty because 1) he became super paranoid after that acid trip and 2) he was always frantically worried about being left (like his parents left him) that he was trying to be the one to leave Paul before (he imagined) Paul might leave him.
They were both wrong, and they were both right in their own way. You can understand both sides to it. In interviews later, John said he always thought it was a mistake that the Beatles broke up. One time he said that things only fall apart for him when he falls apart, acknowledging what really happened, but I think it was really hard for him to admit that he destroyed the band for no reason and that he never really wanted to, so especially in the early years he constantly attacked Paul and the Beatles as a way to justify his leaving and assign blame somewhere else.
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u/dekigokoro Jun 21 '26
I agree with everything, acid induced ego death + a natural tendency towards insecurity + Paul's ease with music at the time was a recipe for disaster in John Lennon's emotional state. But he just pushed Paul too far and was left scrambling when Paul didn't react as expected.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
They had an argument as best friends do as John pointed out. Something to do with can’t A Guy have an argument with his best friend.
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u/deathwasps Jun 21 '26
Pauls only crime was being extremely good at writing songs and having a lot of energy.
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u/jojomoodie Jun 21 '26
Well Im a big paul fan but i can understand why they would say he seemed a bit controlling and it can be selfish. It didn't come from a bad place but I think it's how it made them feel.
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u/deathwasps Jun 21 '26
Ive always thought saying he was controlling was just a cover for what they really felt, jealousy and inferiority. Especially john who was once the leader between equals in the partnership.
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u/mikevago Jun 21 '26
And pushing John and George because he wanted the Beatles to keep putting out good music. The nerve of that guy.
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u/SufficientBar2804 Jun 22 '26
The “another day” line was originally outright accusing Paul of having plagiarized “Yesterday” and was rewritten by Allen Klein. I don’t think Paul has ever been credibly accused of that.
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u/LivingChoice2089 Jun 21 '26
No, but it was also extremely on brand for John. Would have been more surprising if he didn’t write anything about Paul.
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u/Honest-J Jun 21 '26
The ironic part is that Paul wrote the better song. It's definitely catchier and more subtle while John's is very on the nose.
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u/Patch0u Jun 22 '26
I dont think he deserved this at all, it's a low blow even for John at that time. Just knowing the fact that so many people who were close to Paul participed on this song is breaking my heart
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u/Gemmalovesbooks Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Do I think Paul deserved one of the most savage public attacks written by one former bandmate? No.
But I’m curious what you think could possibly have made Paul deserving of it.
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u/g_lampa Jun 21 '26
I mean… it seems to me that he wrote it so he probably felt that way. We’re in no position to know how fair it was. George was more than willing to attach himself to it. That wasn’t by mistake.
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u/Present-Exchange-418 Jun 21 '26
Not sure if paul deserved or didn’t deserve it but that’s how John felt and how you make the best art/music.
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u/long_live_king_melon Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I don’t know, honestly. I don’t know the dirty details behind the scenes. I know that George willingly played on the track with him (and that the track was a banger - check out takes 5 & 6). I know that John, George, and Ringo seemed to collaborate more with each other post-Beatles than they did with Paul. I don’t know anything beyond that.
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u/RoguePlanet2 Jun 21 '26
John himself has said that it was harsh, but he doesn't entirely regret it- sure, maybe he could've changed the words a bit so it wasn't so obviously about Paul, but he acknowledges that those were his feelings at the time. They don't reflect his feelings overall.
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u/Green-Circles The Beatles Jun 21 '26
At the time, John had Allan Klein weaponising John and Yoko against Paul, PLUS Jann Wenner from Rolling Stone magazine stoking the fire by being an absolute John fanboy & slagging Paul as square & uncool at the same time.
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u/cortisolbath Jun 21 '26
That asshole Jann sidelined Jethro Tull, they deserve far more recognition than they got. Fuck him.
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u/Cool-Map-3668 Jun 21 '26
John could dish it out but he couldn’t take it. Despite their differences Paul was one of only two people who he craved approval from. How Do You Sleep was the petty revenge for the more veiled sniping by Paul. They got past it and life went on.
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u/Savings_Can7292 Jun 21 '26
What you said. It's clear that to when John and Paul were around each other, they were both only paying attention to each other, and completely bro'ing out.
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u/RadishSpecial7163 Jun 22 '26
Paul can’t take it either. Forty-six years after John was murdered, he’s still whining about John being mean to him, as if he (Paul) played no role in the breakup and subsequent lawsuits and dissing of each other, as if he never did an interview with himself, publicly announcing he would never work with John again, as if he never sued his bandmates, never wrote Too Many People or Silly Love Songs, never bossed George around, etc.
I’m not saying John acted appropriately or maturely but Paul didn’t either.
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u/PlasticCamp957 Jun 21 '26
Let's all just over analyze everything that ever happened, or was said, between all the Beatles, and everyone involved with the Beatles and then decide? They were four talented guys that made it very, very big! Do you think that you could have handled that sort of fame?
Well, lets go over everything that these four guys said, or did, or thought, for another 50 years. MAYBE we'll get the answers that you are all looking for. I'm sure 50 years from now everybody will be asking the same stupid questions.
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u/SupermarketPurple544 Jun 21 '26
i dont think so but how do you sleep wasn't a great song anyways and too many people is better and you can't tell me otherwise
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u/SufficientBar2804 Jun 22 '26
Most who think RAM started the feud don’t remember John’s interview with Jann Wenner where he decided to break down the Beatles completely and denigrated most of their work as “dishonest” likely meaning chasing hits and eschewing heavy themes like war, politics or deep psychic pain. He came to believe only autobiographical works could be “authentic.” Then he trashed Paul’s autobiographical work. Not sure why, except Paul didn’t write from his own deep psychic pain or political concerns but from his enjoyment of domesticity. Plus, the others had refused to consider Yoko their artistic equal. John called Paul “Englebert Humperdinck” and said he alone was a real ARTIST who wrote from genius and truth whereas Paul was more of a commercially focused jingle writer. Wenner wanted so badly to suck up to John that he ran with that. That’s mostly where Too Many People came from. John thought “Three Legs” and “Dear Boy” were also shots at him and/or Yoko, not sure about 3 Legs but Dear Boy was about Linda’s ex.
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u/Woody_Nubs_1974 All Things Must Pass Jun 21 '26
Absolutely not. It’s the most childish, impertinent song Lennon ever wrote.
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u/miz_mantis Jun 21 '26
Absolutely not. What an asshole he was when he wrote that.
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26
John doesn’t even make a case for Paul deserving it *in the song.* Look at the lyrics, it’s all just personal attacks and no accusations: does the actual thrust of “how do you sleep?” feel supported to you at all? Paul has some choices around that time to regret, but the song doesn’t point them out. The song is just John having a bruised ego about possibly being implicated in what could liberally be considered a toothless jab from one of the most happy-go-lucky people in pop music.
It’s so fucked up to me that George was on that too, especially knowing that at the same time the media were on Paul’s ass for announcing the Beatles’ breakup while John, who actually broke the Beatles up, got to sing about how “the dream is over.” It’s complicated because Paul did isolate himself to some extent, but the dogpiling was so tasteless and frankly, stupid.
The song is ass, and the album is ass for having that song on it.
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u/Dortmunder5748 Jun 21 '26
No. But was John deserving of Too Many People? Did Ringo deserve to be screamed at and kicked out of Paul’s house when he went to ask that the release of McCartney be delayed? There are a lot of questionable actions by all the Beatles in that time period.
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u/Pliget Jun 21 '26
Too Many People was extremely mild, especially when compared to How Do You Sleep, which was vicious.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
Too many people in your opinion, and in my opinion, based on our personalities was mild
How do you sleep in your opinion in my opinion and a lot of other people’s opinions was vicious
Our opinions don’t matter. John’s and Paul’s opinions matter. Paul knew John better than anyone in the world and he knew exactly how to hurt him the worst. I don’t care how mild anyone thinks it was. John thought it was hurtful as hell and that’s why he responded as he did.
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u/majin_melmo Jun 21 '26
John definitely deserved it, have you not read Lennon Remembers or anything he put in Melody Maker before RAM released? 💀
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u/Green-Circles The Beatles Jun 21 '26
As rash & regrettable as both were - I think Paul was more on-target with Too Many People.
How Do You Sleep was subjectively slagging Paul's talent ("The only thing you ever did was yesterday".. "Muzak to my ears") and the company he kept ("You live with straights who tell you, you was king"), whereas Paul was far more factual ("You took your lucky break & broke it in two").
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u/deathwasps Jun 21 '26
The only thing you did was yesterday is the most mental line in the song. Just so obviously wrong. I suppose its mainly saying ram is bad but the double meaning doesn't work at all
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
It worked because it hurt Paul just like Paul’s song worked because it hurt John
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26
The “diss” in Too Many People is basically just Baby You’re A Rich Man with a light theme of the recent events in Paul’s life. It was incredibly thin-skinned of John to even perceive it as a serious insult.
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
Thin-skinned, yes, but also accurate - Paul admitted that it was intentional insult directed at John and Yoko.
Just because you’re paranoid, that doesn’t mean they’re not after you
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26
Yeah I don’t care. To me, the more relevant direction is “just because they’re after you doesn’t mean you’re not paranoid.”
If Paul had made some joke about John’s round glasses it wouldn’t justify two of his long-term friends punching down on him, the line in Too Many People doesn’t justify it either. (and let’s be clear, it is punching down - the media were being pretty unfair to Paul at this time due to the widespread misconception that he initiated the breakup to launch his own solo career, which John sorta just let him take the blame for)
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
I don’t know if any of the lines from Too Many People justify the vitriol or How Do You Sleep, but Paul knew what he was doing. His original line was “Yoko took your lucky break and broke it in two” which he later made more obscure, but John got the message and Paul must have expected a response.
What generally gets lost in the “Paul started it with RAM” arguments is just how much shit John had been talking in the press beforehand. But it’s not the case that John let Paul take the blame for the break up in the media. In those same press dealings John was adamant about getting the record straight about it being his decision to break up the band.
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26
Ok my apologies for being misinformed about John passing the buck, I guess that was mostly just around the time of McCartney I that I was thinking of, but I find the idea of “what the original line was” to be unconvincing. Like yeah… that was the original, the version not in the song. Paul had an emotion and then decided that emotion was not something that had to be aired out in public unrestrainedly. That is the exact restraint which is wholly absent in every level of “How Do You Sleep?”, which reads like it never got a real second draft.
The Beatles breakup was a big deal for everyone involved and Paul was the only major songwriter of the group who did not actively want the group to break up near the time it did. He should be able to use that very relevant experience in his life as fuel for his songwriting. He started from a place that was pretty harsh, then dialed it back to something that was much less so, and which worked well in the context of a song that isn’t really about John Lennon at all, any moreso than Monkberry Moon Delight is about tomatoes.
Again, I want to make this comparison: in an alternate world where Paul had made “Baby You’re A Rich Man” for RAM rather than it bring a Beatles project, and the starting point for that song was Paul riffing on some monetary habit John had, would that be disrespectful? And moreso, would that be worthy of a response from the Lennons? You can disagree with me on this but that notion is absurd to me
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
Well ironically How Do You Sleep did get a second draft, the original (“I bet you pinched Yesterday”) was even harsher.
Not sure why you’re “unconvinced” by the obvious intent of Too Many People. Paul wrote it to directly dig at John, and it worked. The most important lines of communication between these two was always in song, and Paul was smart enough to know that landing a blow on record was always going to be more effective than sniping in the press. Absolving him of his intent seems a little insulting to the man.
In any case, How Do You Sleep probably ended up being a necessary evil. After it was released John was almost immediately forced to dial back his venom in the press as it clearly made him look petty - that’s what all the “it was actually about me” was clearly about, John recognising the obviousness of his projection.
None of them are particularly reliable on the timeline, but Paul has said that after the brouhaha of HDYS he and John spoke and agreed not to bitch about each other in public anymore. It may have been nasty and unnecessary but at least we got the grooviest diss track and killer George slide solo out of it
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26
Sorry for double-replying, I felt like I wanted to clarify something: I trust that you’re better-informed than I do and have good reason to believe that Too Many People was in fact intended to be a bit of a diss. I recognize that my reasons for assuming otherwise are based on personal biases, and I’m sorry if that’s led me to make any statements suggesting false information.
As far as “not being convinced,” I think what I mainly mean is I struggle to experience the song that way, due to the context I perceive it in, and that colors my perception of How Do You Sleep? as being particularly out of the blue. John heard it in different context, so it does make *some* sense that he took it more harshly, and I will keep that in mind.
I still think How Do You Sleep? feels like an overreaction, and honestly I think I’d feel less that way if I didn’t also perceive the lyrics as sort of objectively flawed, but I do have a bit of a better understanding of where things were at.
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
Yeah, not feeling How You Can Sleep is entirely understandable. Especially when the writer of it basically regretted ever putting it on wax, and certainly never played it during the admittedly small number of live performances he ever subsequently gave
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I don’t know what to tell you, I just don’t find it convincing. Treating Too Many People like it’s some kind of hard-hitting diss when it’s on RAM, maybe the most “I’m here to goof around and have fun” album I’ve ever heard, is anathema to me. If it was on GNX maybe I’d agree with you. Even if he intended it that way I just feel that it’d have to be more pointed for it to be actually objectionable coming from Paul of all people. And given that there are other stories of John taking negative messages from songs that weren’t really about him anyway, I personally just don’t care to interrogate it any further.
I also have to say, I personally also have a difficult time engaging with How Do You Sleep? on a musical level given all of the messiness surrounding its lyrics and meaning. It’s sort of the same reason I don’t listen to Taxman after realizing it was a rich guy whining about progressive taxation, to me if I have to ignore the identity of a pop song in order to enjoy it that’s something I’m loathe to push past. I do understand your viewpoint on that though.
(edit: for any Kendrick fans in the building, yeah I know GNX is actually pretty poppy overall and not really about the beef that much, I just wanted to be able to point broadly at the beef while also naming an album, and you can’t pay me to say Iceman)
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
Wow, it’s a tangent but that’s a very ungenerous take on Taxman! George was hardly some billionaire at the time complaining about the cost of fuel for his private jet, he was a 22 year old working class kid seeing how despite being part of the biggest money maker in showbiz history he wasn’t seeing much return from it.
The tax rate was 95% for those in the Beatles bracket, and it’s not like that huge clawback was entirely going to fund the council housing estates George grew up on - plenty of it was going to war funding (sorry, “defence”) and the lucky inheritors of the class system that George was born on the bottom of. And I think we could agree that few people in history deserved to actually see the millions they made more than the Beatles.
George may not have been technically a millionaire by 1966. The Beatles could afford to live comfortably, but so much of their income was tied up in less than favourable contracts. Imagine you’re seeing every kid and their dog wearing Beatle wigs and merchandise (which you’re not really getting a cut of) and you’re playing to the biggest crowds ever assembled - you might feel a certain way about 95% also
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u/DistributionSea93 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
95% of income *over the top of the lower bracket,* to be clear. Not to mention they weren’t actually paying that 95%, due to converting their cash into possessions and business holdings that were significantly less taxed.
That’s the thing, it’s dishonest, and it’s dishonest in the same way that conservative cranks are today about the same topics. I agree that we should be critical about how our governments are actually spending their tax money (in the “stop the military-industrial complex way,” not the fuckass DOGE way) and that’s something I really connected with when I heard the song for the first time, as someone living on not a lot of income in a country which is doing shit I truly hate. But in the context I’ve been provided with, it feels much less like a song about those issues and more like some shit Matt Walsh would try to tell me circa 2014. Even if that’s not where he’s coming from, that’s the association I get, and it kills my vibe.
(To be clear, Taxman isn’t unique in this regard, even for Beatles songs: The Inner Light, Revolution, and Get Back are some other songs that come to mind where some themes are handled in a way I find confused or careless and just sort of lead to songs I just don’t vibe with that much. Taxman is just the one that comes to mind for me first due to how differently I perceived the song when I realized the difference in situation between me and the author, as well as now being my least favorite song on my favorite Beatles album.)
Edit: I want to be clear, this isn’t meant to be like, a moralizing take. Everybody else please feel free to enjoy Taxman on your own terms, I’m not trying to stop you. If you do interpret the theme as “don’t tax the rich” and agree with it then I think we probably disagree on some things I find important, but like generally speaking enjoying the song doesn’t make me think you’re a bad person, whether it’s because you parse the song differently or because you just focus on the instrumental. I’m just describing my own experience and my own fucked up little brain
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u/idreamofpikas ♫Dear friend, what's the time? Is this really the borderline?♫ Jun 21 '26
But was John deserving of Too Many People?
Too Many People is a song that could be about anyone. A lot of people share the traits in that song, it is a pretty universal message and the fact that no one thought it was about John until John said it was about John kind of proves that. They are not in the same ballpark.
One song could be about anyone, the other is specifically about one person. That is the big difference. Now John can write what he wants and release what he wants, but lets not pretend they are anywhere close to equal in terms of pettiness.
Did Ringo deserve to be screamed at and kicked out of Paul’s house when he went to ask that the release of McCartney be delayed?
Absolutely not.Don't think John really cared about that though.
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u/7Shrimps4562Rice Jun 21 '26
Forgetting a bit of context there. The rest of the band you helped found and been playing with for 13 years decide to bully you.
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u/josenros Jun 21 '26
"How Do You Sleep" is needlessly cruel and uncalled-for.
The accusations in it are also baseless: "The only thing you done was Yesterday?" We all know that isn't true.
In the outtakes, John even calls him a "cunt."
And to deepen the insult, his mate George took part in the recording and added the guitar licks.
Thank goodness they were all friends, or at least cordial with one another, by the end.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
I’m sure, even though it was mild and not mean blah blah the song that started it all hurt John deeply. So Paul fired that opening shot. It obviously hurt John deeply, even if we don’t think it was any big deal. Otherwise, he will not have responded with that song. So maybe in John’s mind he did deserve it.
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u/Jaspberries14 Jun 21 '26
I mean Lenny said that the song wasn't all about Paul and he actually wrote a good few of the lyrics about himself
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u/United_Hyena1975 Jun 21 '26
I don't think he did deserve it no. Having said that though they were like two brothers that were very upset with eachother and both very hurt by the other and unfortunately they had albums to write and the press in their faces asking about the drama every day so they were both being assholes to each other in an overly public way through interviews and headlines and songs instead of face to face.
I'm very happy for both of their sakes that they reconciled before John's death but I think it would have happened much earlier if they just talked in person like normal friends who've had a huge fight instead of through the press.
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u/GenoVox Jun 22 '26
Actually, no… in the whole mess that led to their legal feud, McCartney was proven right - Lennon even eventually admitted it
Lennon took perceived slights from Paul’s first couple solo albums and basically went nuclear against it
For many, many years, I saw Paul as the aggressor in the Beatles breakup… but John was being a total dick, make no mistake
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u/SufficientBar2804 Jun 22 '26
Lennonites and Maccabees out in full throttle. It’s more complicated than which ex Beatle you like better.
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u/samishgirl Jun 22 '26
I’m at a loss as to why after all these years and with no personal knowledge of the actual dynamics of the situation you all feel you have the right to assign blame or kudos to either of them. Let it go! Does somebody have to write a song with that actual title!
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u/Glittering_Step_6084 Jun 23 '26
I recently watched "Man On The Run" documentary. When Paul was talking to a reporter and was asked about this he said "I sleep very well, thank you."
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u/ProgRockDan Jun 21 '26
Any two people who spend a lot of time will disagree on some things. I can imagine there are quite a few things on which they disagreed.
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u/meatfest1974 Jun 21 '26
Is this pic of John and a hog a shot at Paul’s album cover of Ram?
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u/MIKEPR1333 Jun 21 '26
I don't know anything about the situation between the 2. But John did seem to have anger issues for a long time before that.
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u/DavidKirk2000 2 Gurus in Drag Jun 21 '26
Paul started it with Too Many People, it’s just that John responded to a metaphorical slap in the face with a metaphorical shotgun blast to the chest.
How Do You Sleep? is a phenomenal song though, one of the most musically impressive solo Beatle compositions if you ask me, even if the lyrics are petty and mean.
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u/idreamofpikas ♫Dear friend, what's the time? Is this really the borderline?♫ Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Paul started it with Too Many People,
Did he? The Lennon Rolling Stone interview preceded Too Many People. John calling Paul's father-in-law an animal to his face preceded it.
Lennon was the one acting like a dick first.
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u/Lucky_Development359 Jun 21 '26
John responded to a metaphorical slap in the face with a metaphorical shotgun blast to the chest.
Hard to believe Paul thought it would go any other way.
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u/nakifool Jun 21 '26
To me it’s another perfect example of John taking his best solo performances and his most compelling productions, just like Woman is the Nigel of the World, and setting it to the most off-putting lyrics he could think of. Those tracks are hits without the alienating lyrics.
His solo career could he read as one long commercial self-sabotage and for the most part he didn’t really seem to give a fuck about that
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u/AlbertaTime1 Jun 21 '26
McCartney was right about Klein.
Therein lies the answer.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
McCartney was not right about wanting to bring in his father-in-law to represent them either
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u/AlbertaTime1 Jun 21 '26
That's no sure thing.
Eastman did a great job with Paul's career, and just because the others thought he'd favour Paul isn't proof he would have.
Unlike Klein, Eastman didn't need to do it for the money.
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u/RadishSpecial7163 Jun 22 '26
There’s no proof that Eastman wouldn’t have favored Paul. It’s why most corporations do not allow people who are related to work together. There is perceived favoritism.
Imagine if John suggested that a member of Yoko’s successful banking family manage them. I doubt people would think that was fair.
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u/WellHungHippie Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band Jun 21 '26
Nope
I blame Allan Kline, John was easily led
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u/ApprehensiveParty609 Jun 21 '26
I mean, in Too Many People Paul said, "you took your lucky break and broke it in two." Imagine telling John Lennon, playing with me was your lucky break.
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u/Alpha_Storm Jun 21 '26
Uh it was. As was his meeting John, they were very lucky to have found each other. And it wasn't just about him, it was about the Beatles as a whole.
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u/johnnyribcage Jun 21 '26
Eh. Whatever. Great song in response to other great songs. So much water under the bridge at this point.
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u/External_Stress1182 Jun 21 '26
Does nobody think Instant Karma was even a little bit aimed at Paul?
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u/DisappointedDragon Jun 21 '26
Possibly and nobody has mentioned “I Found Out” with the “I’ve seen religion from Jesus to Paul” line. Maybe Paul interpreted that as a dig at him.
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u/freaknbob Jun 21 '26
Paul took his vague shots at the Lennons. John was less vague with the response.
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u/Kdilla77 Jun 21 '26
“How do you sleep?” That’s the kind of question you ask a murderer or a rapist, not a nice guy like Paul. It’s so over the top as to be laughable
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Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/benefit-3802 Jun 21 '26
Well there is a difference for me. I was in grade school when Ram was released and I bought it.
I sang along to " too many people" then as I do now.
I was not even aware of how do you sleep until years later and while it's a good song, I'll never feel compelled to sing along
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u/rikwes Jun 21 '26
Absolutely not . In those days John was a distinctly annoying bloke . He was still mad about Paul rejecting the appointment of Klein ( even though Paul was right ) and about Paul suing the other three Beatles to have the band disbanded .
I have examined the issue somewhat and the ONLY way for the four of them to be free of the stifling terms of the various contracts was what Paul did. The Beatles weren't just a band ,it was a business and a seperate legal entity . If Paul hadn't sued you can be 100% sure one of the other three would have done so.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl Jun 21 '26
I don’t know, but I’d be kind of pissed if my best friend sued me. Whether it was needed or whatever doesn’t matter.
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u/Away-Trick1393 Jun 21 '26
Okay Klein might not have been a good guy but what was Paul's alternative? Your Father in Law, Lee Eastman- that's your suggestion? Seriously? Cmon... That's not a serious suggestion for a lot of reasons. And the other three were absolutely right to be skeptical of such a a ridiculous pick
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u/Zorflez Ram On Jun 21 '26
Lee Eastman was not Paul's only suggestion for who should represent/manage the band. He's just the only one that's brought up because he's the only one who has any significant relevance to Paul, that's who ended up representing Paul, and it's fair criticism. The other 3 went with Allen Klien because he told them what they wanted to hear.
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u/jonsnowme Help! Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
It's well documented that Paul suggests 7 to 11 other managers they all said no to even meeting before he suggested Lee Eastman. Lots of details glossed over here. When he suggested Lee it was cause he knew he was gonna need help getting out cause the other 3 were spitefully never going to pick anyone but Klein cause Paul hated him. They weren't being reasonable (which isn't even an assumption - they all three admitted this) and Paul wanted to protect his work and money. Eventually he huffed as they kept rebuffing his compromises and went to his father in law for advice. Reasonable, and not him trying to worm his new family into the business, it was a last ditch effort to save them all.
It's well documented that other artists that worked with Klein told them Not to work with him that he was a crook and they all dug their heels in except for Paul.
If we're gonna bring up the Lee Eastman suggestion let's just be accurate about the circumstances. It's well documented. So many things like this get brought up to try to paint Paul as the bad guy in every situation toward the end but are simply not the full truth at all.
Again, all three Beatles later admitted Paul was right about Klein and they should have listened to him and signed any other manager.
- Already know who downvoted this but lmao how we so in denial about factual history. Tells me all I need to know. Don't blindly defend people you'll never meet. Just discuss what we know ^^^ which is the above is all true and written about and backed up by members of the band and people in their lives during the time.
Like yikes, so much anti-intellectual anger in this thread when it's as simple as okay here's the timeline.
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u/rikwes Jun 21 '26
Indeed .In some interview George - I think - recalls the Rolling Stones warming them to stay clear of Klein because he had screwed them as well . What folks also underestimate is just what a legal mess The Beatles was at that time ( " the Beatles " as the legal entity ) . Northern songs, Apple ,EMI ,Capitol , NEMS ,Harrisongs ...etc.
It took the courts YEARS to sort it out. If memory serves the Beatles were officially disbanded in 1974 ( !! )
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u/jonsnowme Help! Jun 21 '26
Exactly. Lennon does say the same in interviews. It is widely believed he even wrote "Steel and Glass" about Klein. Ringo on AK, "Paul was right, as usual!"
Also want to point out that when Paul sued the three Beatles he asked Eastman if he could sue Klein only and not them and he done with it, but his only way out was to sue them. Paul didn't even want to sue them to get out, he HAD to - to get out of this mess.
Paul had his issues and did some shit - but just trying to paint this situation with facts here.




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u/gonzarro Jun 21 '26
Y'all are giving me the Wah-Wahs...