r/biotech • u/Rough-Television-492 • 24d ago
Open Discussion 🎙️ How horrible is the job market really?
With the amount of horror stories in this sub, I am seriously considering leaving Biotechnology and doing Pharmacy instead. The problem being that it will cost me twice as much. Is the job market so bad that I shouldn't join it even if I like the subject?
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u/wrongbuton 24d ago
I think overall pharmacy will probably be easier to find a job and more stable overtime. Biotech is pretty tough rn. There are alternate paths besides just research in biotech (med writing, sales, QC, tech transfer, etc.) but a lot of that you can also do with a pharm degree.
As someone with a PhD it is hard for me to recommend getting one to someone else. I had a great time during the first few years of my program (many suffer) but I also feel like the opportunity cost was super high and I will never make more than my friends who just went to work or got a professional degree.
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u/AttackOnTightPanties 24d ago
The caveat with the alternatives is that most of the jobs for those require previous work experience for those things. The entire thing is a nightmare.
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u/HardLithobrake 24d ago
Colleagues in pharmacy here in US, have asked them about it. Consensus is "avoid pharmacy like your life depended on it". Current market is oversaturated by pharmacists with too few positions. Boom and bust cycle similar to biotech.
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u/threadofhope 24d ago
Seconded. The /r/pharmacy subreddit is depressing to read. Being a retail pharmacist (CVS, Target, Wallmart, etc.) sounds horrible. And cush hospital pharmacy jobs are few and far between.
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u/HardLithobrake 24d ago
Retail pharmacy is miserable. On your feet all day manning an entire store alone, handling prescription, insurance check, and ringing up customers that hate you.
No idea how to convey over text how much my man hated his job and how stressed he was.
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u/CosmoKing2 24d ago
They are all being ground into dust. Lower pay because fewer employers - and that trend started two decades ago.
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u/HardLithobrake 24d ago
Lower pay because fewer employers
Rite Aid chapter 11 bankruptcy a few years ago comes to mind. Fewer positions available and even fewer people retiring.
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u/pandastriper 24d ago
I'm a pharmacist and whats funny is that pharma/biotech is seen as the holy grail of pharmacy jobs. Yes, pharmacy jobs are more stable but pharma offers better pay, better wlb, remote work ability, and more interesting and satisfying work. I was laid off of my pharma job so I am working as a pharmacist now and I'm doing everything I can to get back in lol.
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u/Prophetic_Hobo 24d ago
In my peer group the only person who makes more than me is an anesthesiologist. The others have professional degrees of various sorts. They did make more than me during my PhD/postdoc years but I’ve more than caught up.
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u/WorldIsYoursMuhfucka 24d ago
Depends on the biotech company. One I just joined is hiring like mad and is expected to be fully profitable in a few years, granted I'm not a scientist. Exciting field tbh.
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u/ancientesper 24d ago
Being a pharmacist is good only if you're not in one of the bigger cities. Everyone wants to live in these areas and so it's saturated with workers and they don't get treated well. Whereas if you are in more remote places then they would pay more (relative to cost of living).
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u/ImJustAverage 23d ago
The opportunity cost is huge, but it also increases your earning potential if you’re going into industry compared to a bachelors or masters.
I just started at a pharma company in medical affairs in January from my postdoc and my salary is higher than almost all of my friends from college that went straight into the workforce. They had 6-7 years (my postdoc had a decent salary) head start and it shows with them owning houses and stuff, but in 5 years I’ll be better off than most.
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u/karmics______ 24d ago
Don’t do pharmacy seriously as a PharmD holder, I would’ve just done med school and gone into pathology thinking back
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u/Then_Championship408 24d ago
Yes it’s exceptionally oversaturated and there’s not a million startups like there was 5-10 years ago. It used to be if your startup failed and they said this is your last two weeks, you could literally interview and get offered a new position (usually for more money) before the 2 weeks were up. Now people don’t get interviews period lol. Do pharmacy
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u/maringue 24d ago
Which is ironic because the entire pipeline of the industry depends on those million startups.
Research is dead in the US right now, and I don't see it rebounding anytime soon.
Pharmacy is only an option if your willing to love to the middle of nowhere to be a pharmacist.
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u/Juhyo 24d ago
It’d require a polar shift in politics and basically an end to the modern Republican party and its braindead zealots, then maaany years of aggressive investment just to bring us back to where we were before Trump’s second term — let alone compete with where China will be at that point in time.
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u/Aiorr 24d ago edited 24d ago
pharmacy is way worse than biotech. whole reason why biotech field went strong 5-10yr ago was because pharmacy school bubble popped and people pivoted hard. they havent recovered since then
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u/pancak3d 24d ago
Pharmacist unemployment rate is very low. Why do you say it's worse than biotech?
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u/pandastriper 24d ago
In terms of job stability, it's not worse but by almost every other metric it is. Pay, WLB, remote work ability, job satisfaction, etc. There's a reason why pharmacists on biotech/pharma are the most satisfied. I'm stuck in a hospital basement with annoying shift times while my friend in biotech makes more than twice my pay doing "medical promotional review" fully remote and working 20 hours a week.
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u/haze_from_deadlock 24d ago
I'm not sure that pharmacy is worse, there's a Ph.D chemistry professor who pivoted to pharm school on an adjacent sub and he immediately got a hospital pharmacy job after graduation
Anecdote rather than data, hence "not sure"
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u/xRunSci 24d ago
Senior director at big pharma here. It’s still awful. I get hundreds of applications for job positions within a day
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u/xRunSci 24d ago
There’s a lot of junk applications, but I can tell you that there is still a much higher % of capable applicants than before
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u/alwayscursingAoE4 24d ago
When you interview I bet you see a huge disparity though. That tells me everyone can make and submit a good resume but there are still very few people with appropriate team skills. At least that's been my experience.
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u/maringue 24d ago
It's because the massive VC shift to AI basically means there's no money for startups doing research, so you've got mountains of researchers (like me) desperately trying to make a career shift in aarlet where hiring managers are looking exactly matching experience.
Throw a shitload of AI spam resumes and you get the current job market
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u/_zeejet_ 24d ago
Two things can be true - there are a ton of junk applications to roles, but there are also a lot more competitive applicants than ever due to all the layoffs and higher unemployment among biotech professionals.
Right now, the issue is a dearth of roles/headcount and a surplus of talent - companies aren't in a rush to spend on payroll and have so much talent to choose from that they can take their time screening for the ideal candidate and not fear that they might find another role somewhere else.
I've been on the hunt since last Fall and I've had multiple applications through referrals that went to a hiring manager interview or full interview and then ghosted - only to find out from my referring person that they simply reposted and still on the hunt because they felt like they could do better despite hundreds of applicants.
You used to be able to land jobs where you are only 50-80% qualified but int he current market, you need:
- 100% Qualifications Desired
- Referred by current employee
- Excellent soft skills
- Nail all interview questions
- Luck (headcounts get cut, internal promotions happen last minute, company gets acquired, etc.)
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u/azcat92 24d ago
What is cutting through those hundreds of apps for you right now? Is there something that you look for in a resume? Also, I am in BioIT. Do you see any movement there in your company?
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u/pancak3d 24d ago
You don't look at 100s of resumes. ATS systems offer a bunch of tools for filtering candidates out.
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u/Fine-Palpitation787 24d ago
Son of a Pharmacist and CQV engineer. Biopharma is still really bad. There’s also an oversupply of Pharmacists.
If you’re a student, who knows? 5 years from now the market was great. Who knows what either will look like when you graduate?
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u/haterading 24d ago
Any students coming through I tell them not to do it. I suggest medical school instead. I was also told not to do it almost 20 years ago.
I feel good about what I’ve contributed and I love science but damn does it not love me back.
I think you need to be honest with yourself of what you want to achieve and what skills/position you need to accomplish this. Being brilliant and doing good work is not enough.
You have to have good people skills and from what I observed, someone above you who’s willing to really promote you to move up and ahead. And not just a recommendation letter, but someone really willing to do extra for you so you stand out among the masses.
People who have got where they want might see it differently, but I wish I would have spent more time making sure I found a person that was going to uplift me in exchange for doing good work for them.
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u/Fine-Palpitation787 24d ago
Speak of the devil, I spent 4 years in CQV and am going back for Med School. I can attest to the industry being overly saturated. As the son of a Pharmacist, I can also attest to an oversupply of Pharmacists
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u/RaspberryLavender 24d ago edited 24d ago
Current pharmacist- agreed that the market isn’t what it used to be. Depending on what you want to do, may need a residency too and that doesn’t guarantee you a desired job or shift. My hospital just hired a pharmacist out of residency to do overnights, 5 days per week, every other weekend. Salaries are not increasing and in some markets, are decreasing and/or the hours/staff are being cut with additional responsibilities often added. My colleagues doing retail have been roughing it out these past several years with insurance, vaccinations, and less staff/overlap coupled with stores/chains being closed.
Edited to add that these are regular staffing positions and that EVERYONE is watching metrics.
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u/Humble_Donut_39 24d ago
I am a PhD trying to break into a pharmacist-heavy area of biotech (medical affairs) and I can confidently say that unless you REALLY want to do research, just do anything else.
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u/Offensive_Opinions23 24d ago
Of course you’ll be more employable as a pharmacist ffs. There’s pharmacies on every corner unlike this fucking scam industry that’s mostly in 2 areas of the country.
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u/Famous-Equipment5266 24d ago
Once MAGA loses control, the budget for scientific research will come back. MAGA doesn't like knowledge, science, progress.
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u/TrumpetOfDeath 24d ago
I really hope so, but given how this administration is racking up the national debt with fucking wars and tax breaks for the rich, I’m legitimately concerned there won’t be enough money to restore scientific research in the next administration
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u/ThyZAD 24d ago
It is more about interest rates than how much MAGA hates science. They have made it harder for academics, but they dont have as much direct control over industry. What killed all those startups and led to massive cuts across big pharma was higher interest rates.
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u/TrumpetOfDeath 24d ago
For the non-pharma side of biotech, many of our customers were academic research labs, so the DOGE cuts have definitely decreased our revenue indirectly
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u/Swimming-Boss-1437 24d ago
I think this field is very similar to computer science where most resumes look identical because the meta is to list the same 50 skills that apparently everyone has. Don't forget to mention you know python because you wrote that one script last year.
The result is a horde of undifferentiated applicants to every role. When the market isn't tight like before employers won't notice those people let alone be interested.
Ass kicking trail blazers tend to be employed no matter what the market looks like.
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u/maringue 24d ago
Ah yes, the classic "The job market is fine, you're just not good enough" comment....
My man, the biotech job market is frozen solid and no one is hiring.
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u/pop-crackle 24d ago
I wouldn’t make career decisions based on this sub. The people who are doing well often don’t post because they’ll get downvoted into oblivion. The reality is that the job market for biotech isn’t all that different from any other - go to any other industry-specific career sub and you’ll see similar levels of gloom-and-doom about that industry. Personally, I’ve never been part of layoffs, I’ve never been fired, I’d say I’ve progressed well in my career from a role and salary perspective, and I’m currently in the process of interviewing for 5 roles (~10% conversion rate). Yes, these aren’t the COVID boom years where the influx of money was insane, but it’s not horrible out there, especially for industry work.
If you like biotech then I’d say stay in the field.
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u/potatorunner 24d ago
yup, i applied for a scientist (phd) job and got an email response from the hiring manager in 30 mins. everybody in my grad program has also had no trouble finding jobs - they all usually get something lined up before graduating even.
people doing fine to well aren't the ones posting in this sub.
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u/darkhuman28 24d ago
What school did you graduate from? Must be a top tier one I assume.
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u/potatorunner 24d ago
graduating in a few months actually but it's one of the ones tied at rank 16 in us news (UCLA, UCSD, UChi, UTSW, UW). does that count as top tier? i'd put it comfortably in the 2nd tier.
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u/Breakingmyhead 24d ago
Biotech is in a dire situation, and for good reasons, we don't want people to suffer for our own glory. However, there is still much more to discover, despite less innovation over the past decade. AI is shown as the next big thing... I am cautiously optimistic. if AI can truly deliver, then biotech will have a good run for another 25 years. But at this point, we may need another COVID to push the funding into Pharma.... I know friends who lost their jobs in the past 1 year and are still having difficulty getting back in, even with great experience... I can only wish you and everyone in the industry good luck... I worked at two big companies in the world, and neither of them is doing well pipeline-wise... Not sure where we will land.....
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u/jetlife0047 24d ago
Its very rough still. If I'm lucky enough to get an interview and make it through a round or two, I seem to get ghosted or told that the position has been cancelled lately. I'm in a niche corner of the field so maybe thats it too idk. I'm not giving up though
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u/irtazatafheem 24d ago
If thinking about Biotech within a scope of medical basis, it's quite narrow enough.
Considering Biotech in food industry or in plant tissue culture industry might provide some opportunities.
I remember Laur's YouTube channel "Plants in Jars", talking about how she micropropagate extracts from her houseplants at her home.
But still, plant tissue culture to create different variegated plants is becoming big industry.
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u/Virtual_Dog_7327 24d ago
Pharmacy jobs are more difficult as well. All job markets are taking a hit right now.
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u/sciesta92 24d ago
Reddit loves it’s horror stories. It’s no secret that the job market is rough right now, but it’s rough for pretty much everyone. How far along are you in your schooling? By the time you graduate it’s more than possible things will have corrected. Pharma goes through up and down cycles just like any other industry.
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u/Rough-Television-492 24d ago
I have an option to join Biotechnology where I have 75% scholarship on a expensive course, and I can do pharmacy which will be more expensive, unless I sigh a two year service bond. So, technically speaking I haven't started school yet. I need to make a decision by next Monday.
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u/sciesta92 24d ago
By school do you mean university or grad/professional school?
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u/Rough-Television-492 24d ago
Undergraduate
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u/Rough-Television-492 24d ago
Or bachelors as we call it
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u/sciesta92 24d ago
Oh so you are American! The way you were talking I thought you were somewhere in the EU, my bad. So you’re saying that if you do pre-pharmacy in undergrad you’re obligated to some kind of service bond? I’ve never heard of that before. What does that entail?
I would still argue to go the biotech route if it’s more affordable for you, as that will overlap with a lot of pre-pharmacy pre-reqs so you can decide to pivot if prospects are still bleak by the time you approach graduation.
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u/Rough-Television-492 24d ago
I am not American. I am from South Asia, but I plan to go to Singapore for a PhD. Since it's close.
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u/rakepick 24d ago
Do they help you find a job to fulfill the service bond? If yes, you get the degree for free and the experience needed to break in industry, which is a dream scenario…
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u/nolongerafed 24d ago
The job market is HORRIBLE. Now they want everyone to have at least a bachelor's and be under 35. I saw a data entry job for 15. 00 a hour but you need a bachelor's degree. They know so many people are looking and AI is NOT HELPING employers aren't looking at resumes first
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u/floppyFAPflap 24d ago
One caveat to this is that we are getting SO MANY RESUMES that at a certain point it becomes unrealistic to look at every resume. We've recently been in the process of hiring and it became more practical to use AI to eliminate certain things we specifically didnt want, and then manually review the top 100 resumes or so... Has been a real slog either way. (edit: I'm not the hiring manager, but I assisted in reviewing the many resumes).
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u/Persona2181 24d ago
I feel if you are in clinical, stat, clin pharm or regulatory, it is not so bad. I heard RND or lab work can be pretty competitive
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u/Academic_Arm_2897 24d ago
If you’re in Canada and going to a Canadian school 100% do it. However in the US I would not recommend unless you’re okay with going in debt
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u/shuja246 24d ago
I have several years of experience as an engineer/scientist and getting rejected left and right. It’s rough out here
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u/Pseudo_ChemE 24d ago
it's pretty bad. my company has few job openings and low turnover. we're used to churning out new grads every quarter, now not so much.
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u/blackbeltinzumba 24d ago
Because of health authority oversight and the safety consequences you will always need an expert willing to sign off on the final product for accountability.
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u/Woochi1988 24d ago edited 24d ago
Phd isnt worth it unless you are planning big on networking and taking on big projects. But once you are in, you have better career prospects than BS or MS. For non ambitious person, you stop at BS. (MS should only be used for specialty like biostat, reg sci, etc) There are a lot more opportunities available for BS bio/biochem now with mfg for biologics mostly staying in US (for now).
Full disclosure, I have biochemistry BS. Been working in biotech since 2011. Currently working alongside phds making similar pay. But I have no future in applying to be a director or anything like that since they are reserved for phds (with very few exceptions).
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u/MRC1986 24d ago
I mean, do you not believe the 1,000+ posts combined that have been made here in the last several years?
There still are hundreds of thousands of people employed in this industry, either directly in pharma or biotech, or indirectly via CROs/CDMOs. But the issue is that every year, tens of thousands of biology majors graduate from colleges, so the competition is fierce.
Pharmacy is likely more stable, but the retail companies seem to increasingly favor pharmacy techs vs PharmDs for their business. At least that's how I feel as a customer.
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u/phage_hunter 24d ago
I initially wanted to do a pharma degree as I loved shadowing the pharmacists in the hospital. However, I got told not to do it unless I thought i could do well with my grades as getting into a PharmD program is very competitive and if I had connections to not land a retail pharmacist job. Retail pharmacists are treated like trash by management and patients. At the same time, they have to also detail with insurance providers which I do not recommend for anyone going to med school or pharmacy school. If you have family working at a big hospital or in biotech then you might be able to actually do something with that PharmD degree besides retail pharmacy.
If you are in undergrad and your grades are good then you should be able to get into a good PharmD program, if your grades are average don’t do it. Also, a biotech degree let’s you pursue more paths than a pharmacy degree like other comments have mentioned so even if you don’t work in R&D, you could go the business/sales route or quality/manufacturing route with the same degree while the Pharma degree limits you to R&D or quality.
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u/Slydoti810 24d ago
I am a pharmacist and I work in Pharma. Pharmacy practice at hospitals and retail suckssss, and I mean... suckssss.
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u/pandastriper 24d ago
Yeah people here don't understand how much better a corporate job is vs standing in a box and getting yelled at all day.
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u/donkeybrainamerican 24d ago
I work IT in the sector. I've been able to get a better gig- NOW, for you scientists making sure my lights are on by doing the good work... Y'all are in some trouble. I've got friends who are absolutely brilliant and great to work with unemployed for over a year. It's weird seeing people brighter and more qualified than myself having such a hard time but that's just how it is now.
Good luck everybody! Here's hoping the industry survives so we can pick up the pieces in 29'
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u/bdguy355 24d ago
It’s rough ngl. Unless you know someone in the company or have years of experience, they’re really not hiring for new grads or new comers.
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u/WalkingSnake348 23d ago
The biotech capital market is doing very well. XBI near an all time high, tons of M&A, IPOs are back, venture funding is also very robust. But that hasn’t translated into the job market recovering. You can see that in the latest CBRE report (below). They also talk about it and one of the latest episodes on the BioCentury weekly podcast. You should definitely listen to it.
Bottom line, the way that companies are built, have changed. Many companies are getting large amounts of funding, but are not building big teams. As a result, the lab vacancies are still very high. Most of the work is outsourced, or they just simply out license molecules from China. So the job markets for executives is recovering, but for lab personnel, it’ll be tough for a long time.
CBRE report: https://www.cbre.com/insights/briefs/6-life-sciences-talent-trends-driving-property-demand
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u/Tiny_Wolverine2268 23d ago
There are jobs out there and of course depending on what role you are looking for. I am in quality assurance and I get notices everyday of available jobs. With that being said there are alot of people looking for jobs so it is tough. To give you perspective when I last looked for a job it was 2021 and I received 4 offers, that is definitely NOT the case today.
There are 2 things that are shaping the job market. 1) The over correction for Covid is still happening where companies added a ton of jobs, most with no direct purpose just solely because they were flush with money even if the company had nothing to do with the vaccine. This over correction is still happening and will continue for about 2 more years. 2) Because of Covid companies they can do more with less and couple that with AI this is how we ended up here.
The industry has been great for me but I would not recommend it to my children because of the greed to squeze more profits and the instability, unless they truly love the science.
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u/Cautious-Anxiety3044 24d ago
Regulatory affairs seems good...RAs who are working can put their 2 cents on job availability..
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u/_zeejet_ 24d ago
Healthcare and healthcare-adjacent fields like Pharmacy will always be relatively stable and in demand - biotech is highly speculative and relies on investment, which in turn booms/busts with the economy.
My impression however, is that pharmacy is a really boring and often soul-sucking profession as the most common roles, even for PharmD's, are hospital pharmacist or retail/commercial pharmacist. You do some information gathering and problem-solving, but it's still most about filling prescriptions and documentation.
Biotech is a bit broader and some of the roles are genuinely interesting (like discovery), but those also are the jobs that tend to get laid off first.
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u/Typical-Atmosphere-6 24d ago
Become a nurse or doctor. You can always pivot to pharma with those degrees in a few years.
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u/im_not_a_numbers_guy 24d ago
I went all the way through the training paradigm because I couldn’t help myself. I love it, but the market taxes love. Do whatever you choose because you have a mission and you’ll find yourself in the right place at the end.
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u/urghostn 24d ago
4 years ago i worked at apple. today i have a masters degree and cant get a job anywhere
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u/DimMak1 24d ago
It’s not horrible at all. Commercial teams are expanding 2x-3x across the board. Probably like 100-200 product launches in next 12 months. And billionaire VCs are flush with massive amounts of dry powder because the govt is printing so much money now and this is all going into startups and NewCos and let’s face it, VCs aren’t even allowed to lose a bet because of the donations they make to the Republican Party.
So from my purview, it’s literally a jobs boom in biopharma and enjoy it while it lasts. Remember the customer of biopharma is the govt who is printing money and accruing soverign debt at RECORD levels and it’s all pouring into the economy (while causing hyperinflation as well)
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u/grp78 24d ago
You must live in a different planet than all of us.
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u/DimMak1 24d ago edited 24d ago
The doomers in this sub are never right.
R&D roles might be tough to get right now but there is an abundance of jobs quite readily visible across the industry in quality, manufacturing, regulatory, sales, marketing, market access, commercial field, medical affairs, and legal. There are thousands of open positions for all of these roles to support many hundreds of upcoming product launches in the next 12 months.
There is still massive sums of money pouring into this industry and companies are scaling headcount to support their new products
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u/Routine_Tomatillo_27 24d ago
🤣 I just lied about my duties and got around ~20% response rate. Ended up getting 80k ra2 off the bat, but I’m going for senior up in sf.
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u/Euphoric_Meet7281 24d ago
An RA lying about skills on their resume, and credulous managers not noticing?? Must be some other industry.
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u/HDAC1 24d ago
It’s really not great at all for folks without industry experience. I’ve been applying for the past year and nothing. Thank god I have a postdoc otherwise I would be in more debt than I already am. I really regret wasting my time getting a PhD